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Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - Printable Version

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Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - GupiReo - 07-11-2018

When I first heard about tulpas, I immediately assumed they couldn't be active (or conscious) if the host was asleep, for example. Today I woke and felt still asleep, you know, when you're kinda awake but still dreaming, I don't know what to call it. I was talking to my tulpa in this state, obviously I was talking nonsense, typical dream stuff, then I heard her say 'But what the hell are you saying, talk properly!', she was completely conscious and lucid (not lucid from lucid dreaming, I meant, her mind was awake and could think with clarity). Maybe I'm making a fuss out of this, but, why could she think with clarity while I couldn't? I thought that because we share the same brain, she would be subjected to my own state of consciousness.


RE: Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - Srn347 - 07-11-2018

If the host is fully asleep, or more specifically, if the person fronting (and therefore, the body itself) is fully asleep, then yes everyone else in the system will be as well. But if you're partially awake, then it is definitely possible for your tulpas to be more awake than you are. I've had that happen as well, it is a kind of interesting phenomenon. Makes sense though, you tend to get more tired while fronting, so your tulpas generally wouldn't be as tired as you.


RE: Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - GupiReo - 07-11-2018

(07-11-2018, 09:04 AM)Srn347 Wrote: If the host is fully asleep, or more specifically, if the person fronting (and therefore, the body itself) is fully asleep, then yes everyone else in the system will be as well. But if you're partially awake, then it is definitely possible for your tulpas to be more awake than you are. I've had that happen as well, it is a kind of interesting phenomenon. Makes sense though, you tend to get more tired while fronting, so your tulpas generally wouldn't be as tired as you.

Could it be related to parallel proccessing?


RE: Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - Tewi - 07-12-2018

Unless by parallel processing you mean some theory of there being two entirely different brains in one head, then no. If parallel processing is really a thing then it will still split the brain's resources. In the end it will always be just one brain. On the subject of the host being completely unconscious: (the body's) consciousness and the brain's sleeping state are not able to be only "half so". If you're asleep, you're all asleep. The only way this could not be the case is like, some sort of sleeping disorder where the brain's still semi-conscious when it shouldn't be, like sleepwalking. That'd be quite the complicated and confusing scenario were it to happen.

But that's for when the host is actually asleep, since that's somehow a question that comes up often.

As for the state between sleeping and waking (or being awake and sleeping), a tulpa's ability to think more clearly than you reminds me of a tulpa's ability to be "not drunk" when the host is drunk. This isn't the case for everyone (the former it's often the opposite, with the tulpa fading out of consciousness first), but for those it is, I believe it's a matter of focus. A tulpa needs to be mentally focused on to be speaking to you (if you're hearing them clearly enough to know they're speaking clearly that is), which is a mental process with little ambiguity. Some, some tulpas may have trouble speaking when the host is bordering on falling asleep, but little nonetheless. Fronting on the other hand comes with all sorts of things to keep track of (or not), considering you're directly responsible for receiving and processing all the body's senses. I also believe there's the "thinking mind" to manage, ie the mental workspace where you or anyone else would do math for example. That's generally shared, but the one fronting is in control of it by default. Meanwhile all the tulpa has to worry about is forming a coherent sentence.

In that scenario, I also believe the one fronting could gather themselves mentally and think just as clearly for at least a few moments. I tend to do this some mornings when I need to get out of bed quickly, basically forcing myself to "wake up" mentally (not physically, I'm already awake by that point) as I get up. The difference in clarity of thoughts is rather astounding, seeing as I've got our lifetime of experience of not doing that and simply being tired in the morning to draw upon. It does take some mental effort though, and I'm not sure everyone knows how to apply that on demand, especially not when still half-asleep.

But yeah, a tulpa can be speaking more clearly than you when you're mostly asleep. Vice versa too. As for the tulpa being "not drunk" when you're drunk, while similar, there may be some bias there. I believe the focus thing still applies (and that the drunk person could think clearly for at least a few moments if they focused enough, too), but also, your ability to judge what counts as "sober thoughts" may be impaired.


RE: Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - GupiReo - 07-12-2018

I thought parallel processing was something that comes once you have a fully sentient tulpa?

You mentioned they fall asleep when the host does, what about dreams? are they conscious there?


RE: Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - Apollo - 07-12-2018

(07-12-2018, 08:10 AM)GupiReo Wrote:
I thought parallel processing was something that comes once you have a fully sentient tulpa?

You mentioned they fall asleep when the host does, what about dreams? are they conscious there?

Parallel processing is overall a myth. Even if you have a fully sentient tulpa, or multiple fully sentient tulpas, your brain is still limited in the same way. You can only have one major focus at a time, the brain can't handle multiple split focuses. The thought that it can comes from confabulated memories of a tulpa doing something else while the host isn't paying induced by wishful thinking by everyone in the system. Having a tulpa changes the number of people who are able to use the brain's limited focus, it does not expand how many focuses the brain can have.

Nobody is conscious during sleep, that would defeat the entire purpose of sleep. If one systemmate is conscious, then the body is not sleeping, and the body is not gaining any of the positive effects of sleeping.

With dreams, you can still only have one at a time. Who is having the dream can change, or multiple systemmates can be having the same dream at the same time, but attention is not going to split between multiple different dreams at the same time.

In summary, no, the tulpas cannot stay active while the host is asleep. The only times we've had tulpas awake while the host was "asleep" was when she wasn't actually "fully unconscious," she was merely drifting off to sleep while one of us was active, and we'd say something like, "Hey, we were talking, wake up!" Like the others have said, if the body is unconscious, then everyone's going to be unconscious. Otherwise, you're not actually fully asleep/unconscious, you're instead awake or in an in-between state.

Also,
Quote:I woke and felt still asleep, you know, when you're kinda awake but still dreaming
This does not sound "fully unconscious" to me. Sounds more like the in-between state. You were thinking about your tulpa while in this state, then that would of course give her the opportunity to respond, even if you yourself was not entirely awake, as you were not entirely asleep, either.


RE: Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - Tewi - 07-12-2018

(07-12-2018, 08:10 AM)GupiReo Wrote: I thought parallel processing was something that comes once you have a fully sentient tulpa?

You mentioned they fall asleep when the host does, what about dreams? are they conscious there?

Parallel processing refers to parallel processes being thought at the same time in your brain. Generally speaking, it can't be done. Multitasking (very quickly switching between tasks) and the combining of multiple tasks into one ("rub your stomach and pat your head" becomes this after a few moments) masquerade as it often. This also doesn't apply to lesser mental processes, and specifically to processes using different parts of the brain - thinking, acting (anything physical), and speaking could all be done at the same time in the right conditions for example.

When it comes to tulpas, you'd never be able to tell your mind was switching back and forth between tasks as it does so so quickly and efficiently. Plus you've got all the different ongoing senses like their visualized form, mindvoice, and sense of presence (possibly of other tulpas at the same time), so basically it might just seem like parallel processing.

But if you and your tulpa can't speak two different sentences at the same time, you can't parallel process.


Tulpas are generally considered to be "as unconscious as the host" when dreaming. In a lucid dream, you would need to make them aware they're in the dream (and that they are themselves). It's not really your tulpa, at first, but acting that way will create the expectations that make them into your tulpa. But that's a lucid dream. If your tulpa supposedly appeared in a normal dream, they're only as conscious as you are, and could say or do things that are nonsensical or that they wouldn't normally want to.


RE: Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - GupiReo - 07-16-2018

To Apollo:

What do you mean by wishful thinking? how does it affect you whether your tulpa is conscious or not?

To Tewi:

That makes sense, does that mean that if, for example, I'm focused on something and my tulpa grabs that focus temporally for herself, my consciousness would fade for an instant without me realising?


RE: Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - Apollo - 07-16-2018

(07-16-2018, 06:35 PM)GupiReo Wrote:
What do you mean by wishful thinking? how does it affect you whether your tulpa is conscious or not?

It doesn't affect if your tulpa is conscious, it affects the way you and your tulpa will remember or perceive things.


If someone really wants to believe that tulpas are active while they're not being paid attention to, then this form of wishful thinking will cause them to confabulate memories to confirm this belief. They will believe in the false memories that conform to their wishful thinking, rather than realizing that they're not actually real or that's not actually possible.

So, if someone really wants to believe that tulpas can, say, stay awake while they are asleep, then their mind may confabulate memories to confirm this belief, even if they really can't.



RE: Could a tulpa be active while the host's consciousness isn't completely awake? - GupiReo - 07-16-2018

I understand, but even if they created false memories, wouldn't their tulpas say 'hey, that's not us'? or do tulpas also fall victims to this?