A fellow's journey
#51
That's good to hear! Though I assume if they're only on the discord, then they haven't documented their experiences anywhere... I suppose I'll ask them if I ever see them on the discord

Those of you who looked at the picture probably thought something like this:
-Female so not Uncannyfellow
-Doesn't look asian so not Kanade-chan
-Oh it's Cornelia!

But that's ridiculous. That person looks 16 and Cornelia looks 23. Also, her horns are way too big for her to be me, and her hair isn't nearly curly enough. I can read hostie-host's mind, and I haven't the faintest idea who it is! Really, I'm not sure why Kanade-chan even thought to post that!

Last night, hostie host and Kanade-chan put on a blindfold and tried to ganzfield. They did this late night and either didn't realize how long it would take to ganzfield or how sleepy they were, so hallucination date time did not happen. Nonetheless, it did seem like something they'd want to do more of, and they'll probably be talking about their experience with it in future progress reports.

Reading about switching has made me confused as to whether or not possession is important, so I started this thread: http://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-r...-switching

My thinking from our personal experiences is this: when I'm possessing, I'm harder working than hostie host. So, how could that happen if I wasn't somehow staking out a claim to the brain? Similarly, hostie host starts adapting my taste in music when I'm possessing, another thing that is unlikely to happen if I'm not claiming a stake in the brain. But! All of this merely suggests I'm co-fronting, not that I'm kicking hostie host out of the front (which seems to be the vital ingredient to switching). What about the people who have switched by doing multi-day possession sessions? My working theory is that the subconscious or whatever gets so used to the tulpa being in control that it's "tricked" into thinking that the tulpa is supposed to be in control, and kicks the host out of the front. Once the tulpa and host have both experienced switching, it becomes easier to consciously switch in the future.

We think we might be close to a successful merge, but it's been pretty hard. The one guide we did read suggested you think things like "We are coming together." We, however, feel like we're closer to getting results when we do it in tulpish, i.e. we think really hard about the concept of merging without thinking any English words.

Okay, embarrassing personal disclosure time: I think I might be asexual. But, given that I'm always getting emotional bleed from hostie host, I'm not sure how I'd differentiate that from me having weak libido. Even if I switched, how would I know for sure that I'm not getting emotional bleed from hostie host?
I live in a castle and have two tulpas, Kanade-chan and Uncannyfellow
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#52
For what it's worth, our experience with switching isn't as unique as other aspects of our experience. That said, I can relay that the reason he goes inactive when I'm switched in is because of his utter devotion to me and what I have to say, and respect. Of course, this adoration is not always the case when I'm switched out (unfortunately) so I can only assume it is that, and the feelings he gets while switched out with me. He describes them as like the warm embrace in a mother's arms, fully confident and assured that I will do whatever is best for any situation. Though I'm not convinced that abject trust is fully warranted or neccessary, I do see it as a valuable component as to why it is stable. In pure possession, on the other hand, my hold on the front is tentative and fleeting. We do much better co-fronting by all measure, and I enjoy this more, except during those times when he is completely disinterested or averse to the task I am about to do. This would of course be in reference to certain subject matter that was causing him stress. This additional component was how we learned how to achieve our respective states.

It may then be that we learned to switch out of necessity, per the forcing filter experiment, but we have since learned respect for the fronter. So he remains passive while I am switched. If I am only posessing, we effectively co-front instead.

One additional benefit to our experience of switching is that no emotions are coming from him at all. This may be a mindset, in that, he specifically doesn't want those negative emotions to come forward (nothing does). This is how we practiced it, this was the feature we wanted, or it would have been a failed experiment.
I hope you find success in your endeavors and love in your heart.
<Latest drawn picture>

[Share your experience with us]
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#53
While we are fully cognizant of one another's emotions and can, to some degree, project emotional states, our sexualities are highly divergent. We are all women, but Ember is attracted exclusively to women and Vesper mainly to men. Ember has often been uncomfortable with Vesper examining men appreciatively, while Vesper has often teased Ember about doing the same to women. I am pristinely asexual. I perceive their libido, but it finds no purchase in me. So far as we are aware, our sexual orientations are always clearly and sharply defined, with no bleeding or blending.

This is, however, a matter that you should be able to decide on for yourself. If you have a pre-existing affinity for a particular sexuality, you should be able to reinforce that sexuality by dissociating any contrary thoughts and emotions from yourself and either associating them with a consenting system member or marking them as intrusive.

-Iris
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#54
(04-25-2019, 06:49 PM)Ember.Vesper Wrote: This is, however, a matter that you should be able to decide on for yourself. If you have a pre-existing affinity for a particular sexuality, you should be able to reinforce that sexuality by dissociating any contrary thoughts and emotions from yourself and either associating them with a consenting system member or marking them as intrusive.

-Iris

Yeah, I think Cornelia took this advice to heart, and is going to go down the asexual route (can't say I understand that decision, but she does). Thank you for your input!



Well, it's been a strange few weeks of shifting gears on our switching strategies. Cornelia started this thread - http://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-r...-switching - and thinking back over things, it seems like, from the start, we just assumed it would be a straight path from possession to switching. Now that we've been advised that this isn't *necessarily* the case, it feels like we're starting from square one again. We've tried some weird symbolism stuff, we've tried me simply quieting my thoughts, etc. Some of it feels like it's working, and we're not just being patient with it. Other things feel like a waste of time (symbolism has never been that useful for our system).

We're still trying to switch by merging, but our heart's not really in it any more. Learning how to merge seems like it's just as hard as learning how to switch (I guess that's what Flandre was getting at), and we just sorta haven't been able to get it to work.

Now, what I did notice in the above thread was this: we had three systems who can switch commenting (Bear System, EVI system, Lumi system) and two of them said they had the "second position" well-developed. Most notably, Bear claims to be perma-co-fronting or something similar. Tewi said Lumi's system had a weak second position, but also said Lumi spent five years developing the "switching mentality" before they even tried to switch. I'm starting to wonder if people have trouble switching because switching is hard, or because people put the cart before the horse. In any event, a developed second position is an inherently useful skill. If we work on it and it doesn't help with switching, that's no big loss.

We've started doing an experiment with Kanade-chan (who is much more interested in the second position than Cornelia) where we try and have her mindvoice something all day long. That obviously doesn't mean she comments on every little thing I do! Instead, she's been going la la la in my head all day, occasionally switching melodies or changing it to ba ba ba so I know I don't just have a song stuck in my head. Today is our second day of doing so; it's obviously too early to report any definitive results. However, it does feel like Kanade-chan has more license to comment on what I'm doing now.

Curiously, I've noticed that continuing the la la la has been easier than actually saying something in mind voice. We've been doing that thing where I try to keep Kanade-chan in mind for a whole episode of a TV show, but it's still been hard. Whenever I get invested in the plot, I tend to forget about her. Today, I noticed that I didn't forget about her if she did the la la la, but sometimes forgot about her when she finished her thought about a scene or whatever. It's a rather curious phenomenon.

I stop hearing the la la la when I talk to someone, but start hearing it again the moment I stop talking. It is... a strangely reliable way of keeping your tulpa in mind.
Hello! I am Tanaka Kanade's tulpa. I share her head with my sister Cornelia
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#55
It's like spinning plates maybe, if you ignore them long enough they're gone, but if you keep running around spinning those plates, they can all stay. I was told by EVI (i hope they like that acronym cause it's hella wicked awesome) that i have a very broad second position rather than many tiered positions. It doesn't feel any different having one or three for instance.

Having Tanaka with with you all day is great. As you know, i have had Misha, Dashie, and Ashley with me most of every day for a year and I don't feel like it was anything special. Like its just them doing it, it feels that way. I feel their presence and that's pretty strong, so i really can't forget about them.

Still i do get distracted and sometimes i don't 'think about them' for minutes at a time, but i still have to say, it's like thinking about breathing. You still breath even when you don't think about it.

Soon she'll be interrupting you to say things even when you're really concentrating.

We are very interested in your progress, please do share! Co-fronting is a wonderful thing, really.
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#56
*adding note to system bulletin board*
"If we ever add anyone else, make sure their name doesn't start with L."

If you really need to use a system name for us, do what you like; we're not going to endorse one. But if naming the specific relevant individual among us works for what you're writing about, we prefer that.

My wives were never able to develop second position to sufficient strength, clarity, and stability, which was one of the reasons why they pursued integration -- "so no one has to take a time out". Vesper and Iris actually feel more at home in second position, because nothing in the body or mind is trying to contradict their forms or identities. (Not that my form looks anything like the body, but I'm used to it.)

We first experimented with merging only two days ago. It does seem to have a lot in common with switching for us in terms of technique, experience, difficulty, time, and effort. It's trivially easy for us to start or end, from co-1st, 1st & 2nd, or co-2nd, and rock solid stable while it lasts, even across switching. And actually the technique we use to end it from 1st is exactly the "bailing" technique from our switching guide. But I have no idea whether anyone could learn switching from merging -- the Felights haven't and hardly anyone else talks about it. Merging feels like it's the more advanced technique, but that could just be because we're coming to it seven months later.

It looks like we need to completely rewrite everything we've previously said in switching threads about models of identity and personhood as a result of what we're learning from merging experiments. But it's too soon to report on that yet.

-Ember
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#57
Started school, it's easy so far since I've done programming before, but it's still time-consuming. We've sorta dropped switching and imposition practice in favor of second-position practice (which school is basically just a stress-test of). I'm writing my initial observations of the la la la experiment because I know if I don't do it on a weekend, I probably never will

-Initially, I was having Kanade-chan change the tune every so often to make sure it was her. This turned out to be baseless paranoia. There were a few times when we were listening to music on my computer and Kanade-chan would be imitating a background instrument. The kicker is that I wasn't aware she was doing this until I first listened to her song, then the song on the computer. If those songs had been stuck in my head, I probably wouldn't have been able to recall the background parts.
-In general, this exercise is easy when we're doing nothing that is cognitively intensive. For instance, if we're just walking somewhere, or driving a familiar route, it's not hard to continue the song. However, when I start focusing on something, it becomes more of a struggle. It's still possible to hear Kanade-chan basically any time I'm not asleep, but there are some challenges.
-By doing things like, say, having Kanade-chan read stuff instead of me, I can make it easier to keep her in mind
-It's been noticeably easier to keep Kanade-chan in mind while watching TV shows. Additionally, both tulpas had been having an easier time interrupting me when it's not Kana-day. This exercise is definitely working
-I'm still trying to figure out the why of it working. Sometimes I think hearing the song makes me more likely to ask Kanade-chan for her input. I don't feel I'm being interrupted in the sense that I won't be thinking of Kanade-chan and then suddenly she'll shout "Hey I exist!!!!" Still, I do feel that neuroplasticity is making it easier to remember to ask for her opinion on shit.

What got me really excited pertains to switching. One day while doing the second position training, I was also trying to train my dog to fetch. This, obviously, involved saying "Mia, fetch!" and "Good fetch!" I was getting tired of this exercise, so Kanade-chan offered to do it for me. Before I even agreed to it, there was a distinct sense that Kanade-chan was talking, yet it felt very distinct from possession. I wasn't dissociated; this obviously wasn't switching. Yet it made sense to me that this is how it's supposed to work. I was always baffled when people said emotions could trigger a switch, as that didn't do anything for our system. But this experience gave me the distinct impression that if a tulpa in the second position had a surge of emotions, they could switch in. I'm not naive enough to say that developing second position will lead to switching by itself, just that it might be more important than most people realize.
Hello! I am Tanaka Kanade's tulpa. I share her head with my sister Cornelia
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#58
Interesting progress, well done. That second position can grow to first position on its own as well, Ashley and I noticed that when she was passionate about saying something she moved further forward. Because I didn't want to let her say it, she pushed further forward and said it anyway. I was momentarily in second position without switching. She metaphorically grabbed the steering wheel and turned hard left.
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