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A pledge
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HorizonRunner Offline
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Post: #1
A pledge

Hi, Comet here. Horizon has a tendency towards white-knighting, and it seems like I’ve got the same. I had this whole thing written up before I really thought about it, and even after editing the writing is goofy and sometimes contains redundancies. Still, I decided I wanted it posted anyway. There’s nothing wrong with the concept as far as I can see, and hopefully it will convince someone to think about this a little more carefully before diving in.

If a mod thinks this should be in guides, I have no argument. I just didn't think it was the kind of thing that should be next to instruction manuals.

This is for people who’ve had tulpas for years, as well as for people who haven’t even started. If you don’t agree with any of the tenets laid out here, then that’s just fine. Cut them out of the pledge, if you really want to. But consider them. Think about them.

I don’t think any of this is unreasonable, but at the same time I have seen violations of it, and there have been a few times when Horizon, bless his heart, has violated these tenets without even realizing it. (It’s worth mentioning that I consider him a perfectly fine host, despite what I said. Nobody’s perfect, and just because occasionally he gets distracted by a shiny object and ignores what I want doesn’t make him a bad person. I wouldn't hold anyone to this absolutely.)

So lets get down to business. This is a pledge I’d like you to look over. You don’t have to take it; I have no power to make you do so, and there are no consequences for not doing so. Still, I’d like you to consider it.

If you agree, feel free to say so. Or not. If you disagree, the same goes for you. This isn't about tallying people up.

(Thanks to "Ghost" for the formatting!)

The Host's Pledge Wrote:
  1. I will treat my tulpa with respect and basic dignity. I will not treat them as a toy, a slave, or a fictional character. I will treat them as I would an extremely close flesh-and-blood friend, or a role with equivalent levels of respect.

    1. I will not ignore my tulpa when they are trying to get my attention, unless real life issues are in the way. I am their only means of affecting the outside world, and I must recognize that, without me, our mind has the potential to become their prison.
    2. If there are circumstances in which the tulpa desires this tenet to be broken (i.e. in an explicit manner), I will do my best to be careful and responsible, and should it make me uncomfortable I will notify my tulpa.
    3. I will respect my tulpa's beliefs, and will not punish my tulpa for having beliefs that differ from my own. They are their own entity, and just because we exist within the same head does not mean we have to believe the same things.
    4. I will not demand that my tulpa reciprocate any feelings I have for them, nor demand that they reciprocate whatever relationship I initially expect us to have. Refer to tenet 3.

    .
  2. I will not force my tulpa to perform actions they do not want to do.

    1. This includes introducing them to other people or revealing their existence. I will ensure that my tulpa is OK with it before I proceed.
    2. I may try to convince them, but I must not force them. If they feel strongly against something, then there is likely a reason, and I must respect that in accordance with tenet 1.

    .
  3. I will not treat my tulpa as a character in my story. They are not here so that I may fulfil my own desires through them. If they are based off of an established character, I will not expect that they mimic that character, or fulfil the roles that character fulfils.

    1. Roleplay is fine, but both of us must recognize that it is roleplay, and I must consider tenets 1 and 2.

    .
  4. I will recognize that my tulpa is dependent on me, and do my best to take care of them.

    1. I will also recognize that, if my tulpa seeks a creative outlet, they may need my assistance or permission, and that I must be willing to give it, and should only withhold it in cases where it would hurt us or others.

    .
  5. I am responsible for my tulpa’s growth. I must recognize that a lack of progress in any field is my fault unless my tulpa expresses otherwise. This process is difficult, and may take months or even years of dedicated work, depending on how much time and effort I put into it.
  6. I will not hold unreasonable expectations for my tulpa. I will not expect them to fix my problems overnight, nor should I expect them necessarily to give me instant access to: perfect memory recall, the ability to impose, improved creativity/mathematical ability, etc. These things may come in time, but I will recognize that they are skills that must be trained, not simply something that comes with having a tulpa.
  7. I will not give up on my tulpa once they are sentient, no matter the reason. It does not matter if they didn’t turn out the way I planned, or if something is “wrong” with them. Deviation is to be expected, and I will accept what comes, as this is simply my tulpa being their own entity. Likewise, the time it will take to create a tulpa is variable, and I should not give up hope just because a certain phase takes longer than a guide or another person says it should. Refer to tenet 4.

    1. I will not create a second tulpa as a “new and improved” version of my first tulpa. Tulpas are malleable, and if there is truly a shortcoming, I will work together with my first to find it and improve upon it, respecting tenets 1, 2, and 5.
    2. If the tulpa has somehow come to pose a real and present danger to my sanity or wellbeing, then I may take measures to remove or suppress them. This is only applicable in the most extreme of cases, however, and I should recognize that if things escalate this far, it is likely my own fault.

    .
  8. I will not use my tulpa (or wonderland, servitors by extension) as an excuse to ignore or retreat from the "real" world. No matter how good I get at removing myself from my surroundings, they will never go away, for better or for worse, and I must accept that. My tulpa and all that is associated with them are in my head. They may aid me in my daily struggles, but they are not an alternative to them.
  9. I will try to be happy with my tulpa, and make them happy in turn. There is so much we can do together, so many ways we can help each other build and grow in our everyday lives. I should strive to pursue that ideal, and help my tulpa to pursue it as well.

Edit: As suggested, here is a prototypical "Tulpa's Pledge".

The Tulpa's Pledge Wrote:
  1. I will treat my host with respect and dignity. I should treat them as I would a life-long friend or sibling, and so long as it is respectful, I should try to reciprocate whatever relationship they assume we have.

    1. The same stipulations about explicit acts as outlined in the host's pledge apply.
  2. I will not force my host to perform actions they do not want to do.

    1. I may try to convince them, but I may not force them. If they feel strongly against something, then there is likely a reason, and I must respect that in accordance with tenet 1.

    .
  3. I must understand that my host has obligations and needs that are unrelated to me, and should respect them. As such, expecting them to spend all of their time with me is unreasonable. If they can manage full-time passive forcing, it means that they are truly dedicated to me on a deep level that many hosts may not have the time or energy to reach. If they cannot manage this, it does not mean they do not care for me, but that they simply cannot reach that level yet.

    1. If my host needs time to work on something, I will not interrupt them unless it is to help, and will not do so unless they want me to.

    .
  4. I must recognize that my host, despite having created/manifested/separated me, does not always understand me. I will do my best to make myself clear to them, and to communicate my feelings and desires clearly.

    1. I must recognize that, until my host can hear me clearly and consistently, they cannot be expected to understand what I am feeling. I must be patient, and do whatever I can to communicate from my side until they can hear me clearly.

    .
  5. I must not deliberately hurt my host. They created me, and deserve my respect for that, but on a practical level they are also the primary controller of the body, and pushing them towards harm is not only cruel and perverse, but also puts myself at severe risk.

    1. I must not recklessly use any abilities I gain as a tulpa. If I possess the ability to, say, switch at will, I will not use it while my host is climbing a flight of stairs. Likewise, reminding the host of suppressed or repressed memories must be done with care, and I should warn the host and ensure they are all right with it before digging up anything that is severely unpleasant.

    .
  6. I must understand if my host is unwilling to reveal my existence. It does not necessarily mean they are embarrassed for having me; there are people who do not understand tulpas, and who would react badly to them. I must understand that my host could face severe penalties for revealing my presence, including psychiatric scrutiny.

    1. If my host DOES chose to reveal my presence, I will not begrudge others for negative reactions, especially if they are simply unsure or afraid. This phenomenon is not well known, and I cannot expect others to immediately grasp the intricacies of my nature or my relationship with my host.

    .
  7. I must be patient with my host. As outlined previously, they have their own lives, duties, and relationships to tend to, and may not be able to spend every waking moment with me. If I am bored, I should find something to do in my wonderland. If my host does not have a wonderland, I may create one.
  8. If I feel a lack of progress in any field is my own fault in some way, I will notify my host and do my best to correct the problem. I understand that they have much of the responsibility for my growth, and that an unexplained lack of progress may lead to them losing faith both my abilities and their own.

    1. I will not intentionally avoid progress to stave off a difficult decision or discussion. A simple discussion about my worries is likely to be much more helpful and productive.

    .
  9. I will try to be happy with my host, and make them happy in turn. There is so much we can do together, so many ways we can help each other build and grow in our everyday lives. I should strive to pursue that ideal, and help my host to pursue it as well.




If you have any suggestions, comments, criticism, or addendums, feel free to say. If you think this is absolutely the stupidest thing ever, then maybe you’re right. Who knows? I just want people to be decent. I hope that’s not asking too much.

We've hit the edge of understanding, and we're stepping off with nothing but a pen and paper.

[I'm Comet. Somehow I've turned out to be the more talkative one, though I promise to make just as little sense as he does.]
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2013 04:10 AM by HorizonRunner.)
11-18-2013 05:09 PM
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Hamcha Offline
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Post: #2
RE: A pledge

So, how about the tulpa's pledge? If any host makes all these promises, I expect the tulpa to have some behavior as well.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 05:30 PM by Hamcha.)
11-18-2013 05:29 PM
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HorizonRunner Offline
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RE: A pledge

(11-18-2013 05:29 PM)Hamcha Wrote:  So, how about the tulpa's pledge? If any host makes all these promises, I expect the tulpa to have some behavior as well.

Comet again, just for clarification. I've considered that, and to be honest I wasn't sure what to put. That probably speaks badly of me, but it's the truth.

In most cases, the host simply has much more power than the tulpa, and as such has more responsibility. In that vein, I would amost be willing to suggest that a tulpa NOT be expected to take such a pledge. However, I recognize that that's more than a bit unreasonable. My views on how this all works are a bit skewed, especially given which side of the line I'm on.

So, seeing as how I'm a workaholic, here's a brief companion pledge for tulpas. It's certainly not perfect, but I'll revise it as I have time. Most of the stuff in the host's pledge goes for the tulpa, but not all of it is repeated here. Use your own judgement to determine what applies.

Refer to the original post for the second list.

We've hit the edge of understanding, and we're stepping off with nothing but a pen and paper.

[I'm Comet. Somehow I've turned out to be the more talkative one, though I promise to make just as little sense as he does.]
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 06:34 PM by HorizonRunner.)
11-18-2013 06:22 PM
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nilink Offline
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Post: #4
RE: A pledge

You my good sir have given me hope for humanity.

Your mad for posting this but still you gave me hope.

We are both taking the pledge.(Why do I feel like I am in a cult now ?.)

''I mold my imagination as if it were clay''.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 06:28 PM by nilink.)
11-18-2013 06:24 PM
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HorizonRunner Offline
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RE: A pledge

(11-18-2013 06:24 PM)nilink Wrote:  You my good sir have given me hope for humanity.

Your mad for posting this but still you gave me hope.

We are both taking the pledge.(Why do I feel like I am in a cult now ?.)

Horizon here. I think we signed up for the cult the moment we decided to make voices in our heads. :P

For the record, I took the pledge before it was posted. (Hipster mode engaged.)

[On a more serious note, I really hate to think that what I'm asking is all that extraordinary. Most of this stuff is just common decency and respect. Thank you for the support, regardless. Faith in humanity can be a rare commodity sometimes.]

We've hit the edge of understanding, and we're stepping off with nothing but a pen and paper.

[I'm Comet. Somehow I've turned out to be the more talkative one, though I promise to make just as little sense as he does.]
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 06:35 PM by HorizonRunner.)
11-18-2013 06:33 PM
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Redline Offline
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Post: #6
RE: A pledge

Well, it seems sound and respectable. I pledge.

This is where all the good stuff goes
11-18-2013 06:52 PM
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waffles Offline
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RE: A pledge

(11-18-2013 05:09 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  b. If my tulpa expresses a desire to be humiliated or otherwise treated in some way that goes against this tenet (i.e. BDSM) then I may do so, but only if I am certain is is their desire, and not my own leaking over. In such cases, we should use a safe word, or equivalent.
That's definitely not a family-friendly pledge.


(11-18-2013 05:09 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  I will not give up on my tulpa, no matter the reason. It does not matter if they didn’t turn out the way I planned, or if something is “wrong” with them. Deviation is to be expected, and I will accept what comes, as this is simply my tulpa being their own entity. Likewise, the time it will take to create a tulpa is variable, and I should not give up hope just because a certain phase takes longer than a guide or another person says it should. Refer to tenet 4.
Are you pro-life too?


(11-18-2013 05:09 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  I will try to be happy with my tulpa, and make them happy in turn. There is so much we can do together, so many ways we can help each other build and grow in our everyday lives. I should strive to pursue that ideal, and help my tulpa to pursue it as well.
Pointing out the obvious, maybe?



Your list is mostly fine, and kind of obvious I think. But I wonder why you think it'd help. I mean, you can't go two feet on this forum without being reminded that a tulpa is for life, not just for Christmas and so on.

Besides, you're basing all this on an assumption that tulpas are, in fact, deserving of equal treatment; I don't just mean ethical treatment, I mean when you say
(11-18-2013 05:09 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  I will not force my tulpa to perform actions they do not want to do.
it excepts the host being in a position of authority over the tulpa. For example, you wouldn't go screaming "Human rights violation!" (actually, there's nothing of the sort in the UDHR anyway) if a parent forced their child to do something that they didn't want to do, within reason.
Along similar lines:
(11-18-2013 05:09 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  I will also recognize that, if my tulpa seeks to express themselves, they may need my assistance or permission to do so, and that I must be willing to give it
Ever heard of "My mouth, my choice?".

On the other hand, a tulpa can seemingly do no wrong, as Hamcha said above me in a way I guess.
(11-18-2013 05:09 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  I am responsible for my tulpa’s growth. I must recognize that a lack of progress in any field is most likely due to a problem on my end, and I will not blame my tulpa for it.
So the host is doing all the work while the tulpa gets (attempted) equal treatment? Do you see a disparity here?
11-18-2013 06:58 PM
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HorizonRunner Offline
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Post: #8
RE: A pledge

[For the sake of clarity, I'm just going to use the brackets when I'm talking from now on.

(11-18-2013 06:58 PM)waffles Wrote:  That's definitely not a family-friendly pledge.
Just being realistic
Quote:Are you pro-life too?
Good question. Personally, I don't know. If it turns out that embryos are sentient, then probably yes. Otherwise, probably not.
Quote:Pointing out the obvious, maybe?
Sometimes the obvious needs to be pointed out.
Quote:Your list is mostly fine, and kind of obvious I think. But I wonder why you think it'd help. I mean, you can't go two feet on this forum without being reminded that a tulpa is for life, not just for Christmas and so on.
Ditto. I understand what you mean, but I felt like throwing my two cents on the pile.
Quote:Besides, you're basing all this on an assumption that tulpas are, in fact, deserving of equal treatment; I don't just mean ethical treatment, I mean when you say
Quote:I will not force my tulpa to perform actions they do not want to do.

it excepts the host being in a position of authority over the tulpa. For example, you wouldn't go screaming "Human rights violation!" (actually, there's nothing of the sort in the UDHR anyway) if a parent forced their child to do something that they didn't want to do, within reason.
I'm not entirely clear what you're saying. It's my understanding that the host is fundamentally in a position of authority, by simple seniority and greater control over the body. If that's what you're saying, then we're in agreement.

I'm not talking about "eat your vegetables and clean your room," though. I'm talking about abuses of power. Forcing the tulpa into roles they do not want, forcing them into forms they do not want, et cetera. Personally, I would condemn parents who did either of those two things.
Quote:Along similar lines:
Quote:I will also recognize that, if my tulpa seeks to express themselves, they may need my assistance or permission to do so, and that I must be willing to give it
Ever heard of "My mouth, my choice?".
Not in the context you're using, apparently. I merely meant that there's only one mouth between us, and the host should be willing to share, within reason.
Quote:On the other hand, a tulpa can seemingly do no wrong, as Hamcha said above me in a way I guess.
Quote:I am responsible for my tulpa’s growth. I must recognize that a lack of progress in any field is most likely due to a problem on my end, and I will not blame my tulpa for it.
So the host is doing all the work while the tulpa gets (attempted) equal treatment? Do you see a disparity here?
The host is basically doing all the work, yes. The tulpa kind of isn't around to get things started, after all, and if we want to use the parent-child analogy you used before, you don't make children share the load equally when raising them. The tulpa certainly helps things along, especially later on, but ultimately it's the host's effort and beliefs that carry things out. That said, you typically don't raise children for the sole purpose of getting what you want out of them, and the metaphor breaks down here anyways, as tulpas may form at various levels of psychological and emotional maturity. I don't think I said anything about equal treatment (and if I did, I should probably re-word it) but respect and decency shouldn't be that hard to work with.

These aren't a rock-solid set of rules. They're guidelines intended to promote decency and respect. Like I said; if there're specific tenets you disagree with, you can ignore them. If you think this is redundant, that's because it probably is. This was pretty much my own conceit anyways.

]

We've hit the edge of understanding, and we're stepping off with nothing but a pen and paper.

[I'm Comet. Somehow I've turned out to be the more talkative one, though I promise to make just as little sense as he does.]
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 08:12 PM by HorizonRunner.)
11-18-2013 07:48 PM
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waffles Offline
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RE: A pledge

(11-18-2013 07:48 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  Good question. Personally, I don't know. If it turns out that embryos are sentient, then probably yes. Otherwise, probably not.
So by that logic if your tulpa isn't sentient yet then it shouldn't hurt, right? And that's already assuming that they are at all, given the comparison to babies.


(11-18-2013 07:48 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  I'm not talking about "eat your vegetables and clean your room," though. I'm talking about abuses of power. Forcing the tulpa into roles they do not want, forcing them into forms they do not want, et cetera. Personally, I would condemn parents who did either of those two things.
Would you condemn parents who forced their children to wear clothes they did not want to? That seems roughly comparable to form to me.


(11-18-2013 07:48 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  Not in the context you're using, apparently. I merely meant that there's only one mouth between us, and the host should be willing to share, within reason.
Is there one mouth between the host and the tulpa, or the host's mouth that the tulpa is borrowing? Within reason, sure, but that's very different from making a fairly strong statement about always doing so.


(11-18-2013 07:48 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  I don't think I said anything about equal treatment (and if I did, I should probably re-word it) but respect and decency shouldn't be that hard to work with.
The line that I got that from specifically was
(11-18-2013 07:48 PM)HorizonRunner Wrote:  I will treat them as I would a flesh-and-blood friend I have known my entire life
It's not unreasonable but it does contradict the 'seniority' thing.



But yeah, it seems we do agree on the equality point.
11-18-2013 09:21 PM
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HorizonRunner Offline
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RE: A pledge

[
(11-18-2013 09:21 PM)waffles Wrote:  So by that logic if your tulpa isn't sentient yet then it shouldn't hurt, right? And that's already assuming that they are at all, given the comparison to babies.
Thanks for pointing this out; I need to clarify something.

This applies once you assume sentience. Given that the "sentience from the start" thing is still being talked about, I thought I didn't need to mention it, but it was my intent. If you screw up and end up with a servitor, or are just, JUST starting out, this doesn't apply so much

Quote:Would you condemn parents who forced their children to wear clothes they did not want to? That seems roughly comparable to form to me.

Not what I meant at all. There are basic things that children need to be taught, many of which they will learn on their own, after a fashion: language, social mores, etc. These are simply a requirement of most cultures. Children are also taught basic skills, especially later on: Mathematics, language arts, etc. What I don't condone is forcing children to subscribe to a particular all-inclusive worldview or philosophy before they have the faculties and experience to understand it. I don't want to go into this topic, particularly, but I will if pressed.

Tulpas are not children. They come into being with a predispositions based on what the host expects, and what's left unmentioned is usually granted to them by way of "common sense." Tulpas typically don't need explanations as to why people wear clothes or eat food. They understand because the host does. If the host expects the tulpa to need to be taught these things then sure, they won't necessarily know, but unless it's common practice to assume your tulpa won't know what pants are, I don't see that as an issue. However, the host does, most of the time, choose the initial form and personality of the tulpa. This is okay, but I believe the tulpa should be free to change, if they so wish. In a perfect world, hosts would have this ability too, but unfortunately they can't always have what they want. Tulpas, however, sometimes can.

One might argue that tulpas typically share the host's views anyway, but I think the chance that this isn't a universal truth validates the need for the bullet point.

Quote:Is there one mouth between the host and the tulpa, or the host's mouth that the tulpa is borrowing? Within reason, sure, but that's very different from making a fairly strong statement about always doing so.

I should most certainly clarify that statement.

I meant originally that if a tulpa wanted to, say, paint or write, the host should allow them the time to do so, if possible. I would also say that if the tulpa has a view they want to express, the host should be open to letting them do so. But in that case, it's best if it's through a medium such as the internet, where the tulpa can establish their own distinct identity. It wouldn't do to have a host give a speech to an assembly, only for the tulpa to go right back up and give another, opposing speech.

(Unless that was the whole point of the assembly. That would actually be pretty awesome.)

Quote:The line that I got that from specifically was
Quote:I will treat them as I would a flesh-and-blood friend I have known my entire life
It's not unreasonable but it does contradict the 'seniority' thing.
I'll reword that. "Entire life" isn't quite what I meant. I just wanted to reinforce the closeness aspect.

]

We've hit the edge of understanding, and we're stepping off with nothing but a pen and paper.

[I'm Comet. Somehow I've turned out to be the more talkative one, though I promise to make just as little sense as he does.]
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2013 09:57 PM by HorizonRunner.)
11-18-2013 09:43 PM
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