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Angry Bear's Heroines
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#71
 
RE: Angry Bear's Heroines

February 21st, 2019 - 307 days

Soulbonds:
After a chat with a resident soulbonder, my definition of the word wasn't perfect, but the use is more fuzzy, a character who is tied to their back story can keep their back story and still become a separate person, to me that's a soulbond. The meta connotation is that they're actually from their place of origin and you also believe that. They can believe it, that's not necessarily meta, only so if you also agree.  We do have these scenarios on this forum, and just saying it's meta doesn't mean it's not true. I believe everyone's experiences here are genuine, and only they have enough data to draw conclusions of their experiences. When something that seems meta is proven, then it's no longer meta, just saying.

A soulbond may choose to keep the designation 'tulpa' as well, though typically, tulpas don't have a tied back story of living in another world or place before sharing your body with you. This is my understanding.

The moons I have that believe they're from their story are soulbonds in training (like Gwen).  I still stand by my assertion that they can't become their own person without my help, so short of that, they never will; no matter how much you interact with them, they will remain characters. In Gwen's case, she's a main character in 4 books and I've spent years 'forcing her', yet she's still a character. If I decide to make her a tulpa today, it would be so. The only complication is she doesn't actually want to stay with us because she feels obligated to her adopted family in her own world. Gwen the person, would thus probably be a tulpa and would inevitably deviate from Gwen the character, leaving Gwen the character still accessible. She's also a seraph.

Joy said she only played her character, but since she still owns the character, she didn't deviate further, in fact, our attempts to change her led to her shedding those changes as Ren, but i'd still consider her a soulbond.

February 15th, 2019 - Switching:

We kept reading about switching and something told me that I would probably be able to do it, because i felt like we'd done it before. As I mentioned previously, we did do something earlier and it was odd. As it turns out, perhaps we did switch using the techniques outlined here by our good friend Tewi, but not how I expected. I need to just document now, because we don’t like it as a general practice, it had very little benefit for us outside of specific situations I’ll go into later. Wonderland at 50% realism as is typical when I imagine it, is just fine for us. Though when I managed to fully dissociate and immerse in wonderland, maybe it was 60%? Compare that to hypnagogic or trance enhanced wonderland which is probably 80% and lucid dreams at say 90% of reality (but actually better than reality obviously).

(02-15-2019, 04:14 PM)Tewi Wrote: I feel it's worth noting that "dissociation" is not some big scary thing when it comes to switching, for us. It's no more special than when you're entirely immersed in your wonderland and not paying attention to the body's senses. When it comes to the host dissociating to switch, I would say it's barely more complicated than moving their mental sense of self away from the physical body (into the wonderland? optional, we stay beside the body in the mindspace, but wonderland is how it was originally done and taught in earlier years of .info). The real hard part isn't the host dissociating (at first anyway), it's the tulpa associating. Hosts can go mentally AFK just fine, literally everyone does it. Having the tulpa take their place so the host never becomes un-AFK is the hard part to figure out. That's the thing we say everyone needs to learn on their own.

Yes, so, I normally dissociate when I go into wonderland, not completely, but 50%-75%, especially my arms and senses, not my presence necessarily.

Quote:Secondarily, the host may have trouble not accidentally stealing back the front from the tulpa. This problem is much easier to deal with (usually) than not knowing how to switch in the first place, but it's still a commonplace problem, although it wasn't for us. But at this point it would be refreshing to see people struggle with accidentally kicking the tulpa out of the fronting spot (host being unable to stay "mentally-AFK" while tulpa fronts), as opposed to there being some big perceived wall of dissociation to figure out first.

I did it just like you said, complete dissociation, but I kept getting 'spooked' or would shift front every so often. I could easily remain stable with say my legs still associated. This is what happened when Dashie took front the second time. I was the bottom half, she was the top half, but she additionally blocked me from 'speaking in mind voice' so basically it shifted our model because others have reported this also possible when switching.

The 'body' is not me, I am the main fronter. I'm just typing this out and it might be total bullshit. So maybe the body has a consciousness, the main consciousness, and my tulpas have their own like 'bubbles of consciousness'. It's easy to think that they share yours, but when I was switched out I didn't share anything with the fronter, I was my own self, dissociated and immersed into wonderland with my own thoughts.

One more little anecdote, i've been told in the past before tulpas that i can be awakened, have a believably lucid conversation then fall right back asleep, and i have no memory of this. I think this has to do with my sleepwalking and it may very well be the body OS that is developed enough to do that on its own. It might explain why it's so easy for me to zone out while driving or exercising. The body OS can take me completely to a destination, though it may not be the place i wanted to go, like taking the wrong exit. This is something i've heard many times before. Before tulpas, i would just go deep in thoght, now it's wonderland, but it feels the same, i'm not paying attention to the body at all and i lose that memory entirely, for whatever length of time.

Anyway, I've described this before but here we go again:

First, a word on a word that offended me:
I’ve been coached to allow yall to say confabulation because that’s the term this community has adopted for things that may not have actually happened as you think it did, but I’m offended by that word for its medicalized history and dismissive connotations. So I will feel offended literally every time I see it until I get over that I guess. We can’t say “alter” because that’s offensive for the same reasoning in my mind; however, we can allude that you’re probably unconsciously making shit up. That’s a lot harsher than explaining it with in slightly more gentle way like, “it might have been a small dream or hallucination”. Somehow that seems easier to handle for me, but I wouldn’t even say that. I would rather probe the experience and work with the OP to find a different interpretation that does fit rather than throw that C word up and basically discredit the experience. At least that’s how I see it. But go on and use it, whatever, I’m not here to censor language up to a point.

Let’s continue with the first kind of odd experience that got the C word dropped on it a couple times by now. I don't know if this is considered 'switching' anymore but Lumi said he had heard of it before.

So Dashie switched in recently (or switched out), and she was there in the body, I was in wonderland. There was no issue whatsoever and it didn't feel that different then a normal wonderland visit, a little more immersive maybe, let’s say 10% more. My perspective was somewhat locked to first person which was a little odd, but I didn't have time to explore before I realized that Dashie wasn't with us then she made a scared whimper and her 'voice' broadcast through wonderland. We switched back without thinking about it, but I was completely dissociated before then.

I recognized this last night and this morning, that was more like the old ways of switching, but probably not a switch as we know it today and even less useful in my mind, though it does open the possibility of going AFK while a tulpa handles everything. (Not that I’m qualified to say that after one time.) It was a little freaky because I wasn't experiencing her 'senses'. She was outside we were inside, I was processing inside while she said it felt 'heavy' and she was confused as to just what happened and why she felt different. She couldn’t say more than that without doing it again. [We managed to do this a couple more times but she refused to move or even open her eyes, so the results are inconclusive. The procedure is outlined here.

Quote:Not that dissociation is necessarily easy in all systems (especially staying so when the tulpa starts using the body/mind while fronting), but rather, it's a much simpler state to enter than it's treated as.

Agreed, this is what we noticed too.

Quote:As an aside, I wonder about hosts who cannot go inactive (when their tulpas normally can) while their tulpa fronts. If the brain's being used to them being there is so strong as to keep them from being inactive, that would make sense, and I don't feel like it would disqualify the act from being called switching. But, it's not something we can study ourselves, nor really formulate theories about for others.

Can't help there, no one is going inactive outside of sleeping for now. No one intends to. I didn’t try to zone out, I just focused on being immersed in wonderland, I pulled myself out of the shell of my body like a crab shedding its old shell. When I was in wonderland, everything was there. I didn’t feel numb or lesser in any way, but I also didn’t do much. I had opportunity to hug Misha or Ashley and instead I was kind of content just looking at them as we decided what to do next. I didn’t feel any of my body, outside, nothing, I wasn’t even thinking about it. I was zoned in to wonderland. As far as I could tell, it wasn't all that different from normal wonderland.

Another time:
I was training 'what would Dashie do' to thicken my skin, and I was proxying her at first. At some point she became full possession front. I didn't want to interrupt her, i was learning from her. She started talking about something and I kind of zoned out ‘cause she was talking about something I didn’t care about. I wanted to say something, she was talking, I couldn't interrupt her as if I didn’t know how to speak. How does one speak? It just happens. I couldn’t do it and for 9 seconds as I pondered without words, silently. I believe she commanded the body consciousness stream. Since maybe it’s part of the body, and I think it wasn’t 'mine' I couldn’t use it, whatever. I could still think and I was still present, but I couldn’t formulate words, she was blocking me. As I said earlier, now I think the body has one of its own, and we tulpas (in that position) have to cobble together a separate bubble.

She didn't notice at all. She ended her thought and said something like, 'what's going on'
Okay, I understand something now that we’ve been practicing. Now I know why tulpas say that IRL is more vibrant. It’s because we live in wonderland and it's not 100%. When I found myself in front the first time, I was confused because it was like I couldn't move. The body has weight and I wasn’t expecting to feel any resistance to movement. Visual wasn't that different, but the room was dark. It's like i'm seeing and experiencing everything through him, not myself. Being front was a little different, not that much different though, maybe it's because wonderland is good for us, i don't know.

During our practice, I wrote it down each time we stopped. It was plagued with oddness and though I was able to achieve full dissociation with everyone in wonderland, it came with weirdness and metaphoric fear. [Now I understand we were trying to do something that is hard and not our modern concept of switching, like how Tewi described, which is comparatively more natural. We ‘switch’ and it has been confirmed by feel and function, and this is what we did to achieve that ‘conditionally’ it took a little while to progress but the steps were as follows:

1. Proxying - There’s always trouble in translation, it’s not efficient, and takes a while to get used to the time delay.
2. Partial possession/possession - You’re there with them and constantly stealing the front again whenever you feel like it or if you get startled, and you might censor them, it's like running responses through two filters.
3. Switch - you’ve given up complete control. You can still monitor or just zone out, they’re the ones who are ‘thinking and acting’ but you strictly won’t interrupt them (and even might not be able to). It may be discipline or just full trust, but I think you need both of those to at least get the same function as a switch. I won’t interrupt, I can’t, I don’t even think about it because I’m completely quiet. During a full switch, I don’t think on my own, I’m fully focused on what they’re saying and they own the conversation. Nothing crosses my mind necessarily.

Now it’s possible that something could cross my mind and that’s what they do for co-fronting. I’m 75% they’re sharing 25% on average, let’s put it that way. But with ‘back seat-fronting’ or ‘conditional switching’ one of them can instantly go 100% in a given situation and completely shut out everyone else. I think this would be similar to taking a timed test, even if co-fronting is still active, everyone is playing nice and no one will interrupt.

Here’s my exact journal transcript in out attempts to ‘do something else that we thought might be switching’:
First attempt just before bed:

-Dashie on the bed in wonderland, Ashley and Misha on the couch
-Relaxed, picture the room, position I'll be in
-Slowly pull myself back pull me out of my body and into wonderland
-I saw a flash that looked right, Misha's eyes looking at me
-Felt a shift, I was scared, a spike of adrenaline planted me again in front
-Pull again, hand and feet felt cold and slightly tingly, I felt myself slipping out
-Dashie confirmed spontaneously that she felt a tug toward the front, she "grabbed the bedpost" she said she felt stable like that.
-Startled myself again, but kept slipping out as intended
-Dashie exclaims "Oh no, we have hypnagogia!"
-Sure enough, odd images form
-I couldn't pull out of it, like I couldn't move my fingers
-My hands and feet felt cold, very slight tingly slightly numb (was it sleep paralysis? I normally never get this.)
-I was at least turning off sensory input
-Fell asleep

-Second attempt after 4 hours sleep, woke up, felt disoriented, which is unusual, I felt like I wasn’t me a little, everyone is asleep.
-Logged what happened before.

Trying again with no one up:
-Pictured myself in empty wonderland room
-Seems very smooth, very powerful and easy
-Felt myself slip into wonderland, but I kept popping back to front
-Saw a stretching sort of stuff between me and the front.
-Attempted to pull further away
-Kept feeling front
-Moved presence into wonderland further away from front.
-Stretchy elastic spring between me and front.
-Spawned scissors, considered cutting the stuff
-Felt it and it was an umbilical of sorts
-Started to dream
-Dream about someone asking for help.
-I snapped out of it, realizing I was still in wonderland I could feel myself in two places, still attached to front by this bungee-cord-rubber-sheet-cord thing.
Had thoughts about astral projecting. What happens if you cut the cord during astral projecting? The answer to that is nightmare fuel, but I believe that truly it’s a metaphoric connection so nothing will happen.
-Opened apartment front door, attempted to run down the hall
-Slipped back into dream
-Broke out of the dream
-Decided to get up
-Body unresponsive!! Sleep paralysis again?
-Had to slowly slip back into front
-Moved hands, got up
-Walked down the hall IRL
-logged what happened, and went back to bed.

Third attempt, 30 min later:

-No one is up, it’s just me.
-Relaxed, felt myself slipping, found myself and my presence in wonderland, but then immediately slipped into another dream.
-Woke myself again, there was that stretchy material, I pulled hard on it, tried to unravel from it, thought about cutting it again, wondered what it symbolized. Not prepared to cut it.
-wrote in log
-Fell back to sleep.

After 8 hours of sleep, morning attempt:

Dashie and Misha are up.
-Looked at the clock, thought about doing it again.
-Relaxed, immediate hypnopompic.
-Snapped out of it, tried again, phased into wonderland, saw them both momentarily (enhanced)
-Dashie started to slip to front.
-I didn't want her in front, so I grabbed onto her, we were momentarily stable,
-Flipping fell into a dream again.
-Pulled myself out, back in front.
-Will attempt again later.
-Logged attempt

Summary:
The first day I managed about 10 attempts in 9 hours, got 8 hours sleep, about six 10 second dreams, got lucid and pulled myself out each time, continued to try to disassociate, kept getting pulled back in front. I could maintain the state for less than 10 seconds at about 60% realism without either hypnagogic/hypnopompic, dream, or snapping back in front.

Afternoon:
-Decided on a whim to do it again.
-Can easily disassociate, body feet and hands get cold and tingly, don’t know why [this isn't what normally happens with wonderland]
-Eyes closed, in wonderland, can’t concentrate right now
-Attempted again
-Feeling like crap, from mood, not feeling like I want to do this right now

That night:
-Attempt in bed.
-Fell straight asleep.

So... I did a lot of attempts at [what I thought was] switching with mild success. Some freakiness happened and I got scared a few times. Some crazy symbolic thing was happening that I want to get advice on I think it symbolized fear. Wonderland enhancement occurred to a limited degree. It wasn’t spectacular.

Right now, my brain juice is in a state at this point that every time I 'relax' I get hypnagogic/hypnopompic images. It just keeps happening on demand at this point. About two thirds of the time I randomly slip into dreams, and I can pull myself out of them 100% of the time very quickly, they’re obviously somewhat lucid and random, I realize it right away and just exit as intended.

[This isn’t always the case but happens especially easily when I’m tired. It’s only bad when laying down in a dark place with me eyes closed, I literally can’t avoid it and fall asleep soon after.]

February 16, 2019
Latest attempts:
-Close eyes.
-Can dissociate, no problem.
-Move presence into wonderland.
-Sit on the couch between them all
-Lose feeling in the body, not my body
-Being pulled back to front
-Told Dashie to just friggen cut the cord.
-She did and I fell back to the couch.
-Everything was fast, I looked at all of them looked around, not much different than regular wonderlanding but I was in my avatar and it felt different. Couldn’t go third person, just through my wonderland eyes. [Don't know what kind of freeky trance i put myself in here, I swear i wasn't dreaming]

Next attempt:
-Dashie is smiling at me.
-Let’s switch
-Dashie is ready
-Eyes closed
-Enter wonderland, forget about the body, just not thinking about it.
-Dashie says she’s in front
-I don’t know what’s going on for a second
-She opens her eyes and I’m thrown back in front.
-She says she’s feeling tired

Next attempt:
-Dashie goes front.
-We switch and switch back after a few seconds, I’m feeling dizzy.

Again attempt:
-We don’t really feel like doing it
-Do it anyway
-Got both in front. I’m planted.
-I felt her try to move, it was probably possession.
-Pushed her out, she’s laughing, I’m cranky and stressed.

Last attempt:
-I slip into wonderland.
-Misha distracts me with her hair and tried to distract me further.
-Dashie didn’t move, and she said she didn’t open her eyes either.

Summary
Not exactly stable, not very productive, but if it was a switch at any point it wasn’t hard either.

After all that, some PM's back and fourth and i realized that we can switch. If it's conditional it happens immediately, if it's intentional but for nothing in particular, i have to go through the process: Proxy->Posession->Ignore everything and trust her, then listen to her complain, she doesn't want to do it unless it's for a specific purpose. I swear it doesn't feel very different than letting her take command in certain situations.

There's no magic here, or i'm still not doing it right. I figured it would feel different. If the objective is to let them do everything and not interfere, no problem here. I still feel like I'm missing something, but it definitely works as intended, i don't get upset, they handle the situation, i just relax and watch, completely emotionally detached. After they do this a few times for a given situation, i learn how not to flip out and i can handle a few without a refresher. With proxy, i'm still emotionally all there, with posession, i keep trying to interject. When the switch works, i'm as good as oblivious, though i wouldn't say inactive, it just feels like they're posessing and i'm just choosing to stay out of it, though if i did that without 'switching' i'm definitely involved and it gets messy.



New topic:
Why are my tulpas so perfect for me?
What I want from a relationship is affection. I rarely get that and when I do it doesn't last regardless, I have to be the one giving it always and if I get any back it's just then as I'm giving it, not spontaneously. I never found a relationship with an affectionate person because I suppose it was chance. People generally interface with me reactively.

So, hey, there's one thing about Tulpamancy that's really great, you get what you want because tulpas want to give you what you want. I don't need them for deep interesting conversation. Not that we don't occasionally talk about things like that but most people don't anyway. Even when talking to an intelligent person, the vast majority of the time innocuous and ubiquitous topics are the norm.

My tulpas give me affection, if I sit next to Misha in wonderland she'll put her head on my shoulder, smile at me, touch me like I'm a soft bunny that needs to be pet. Dashie will often sit on my lap and hug me, then speak softly to me as she runs her hands through my hair or just gazes lovingly at me. Ashley doesn't give much affection but to prove the exception of a rule (after she admitted that in a post on Valentine's day) she's been more spontaneously affectionate lately.

So I have three doting, beautiful women who stay with me all day and I can discuss anything that comes up with then and they'll happily give their opinion. It's not like they just paw at me all day though, but when I need it they give me affection.  This sounds very sexual, but it's not, I'm not a nympho and neither are they, we just share affection in a platonic way.

I'm really a social person shell on top of a hermit. I often chose to stay home then go out and at my root I'm nervous about going out with friends. When I'm actually out I have a great time and I love it, but if given a choice I often still just want to be home and play on my computer or watch something. So my relationships are generally like that even when I've lived with someone. I tend to pick introverts for relationships because I'm most comfortable staying home.

When we talk, it's laced with their praise, bolstering, cheer-leading and that sort of thing. Still, we do have nice conversations, though they're mostly working out problems and we enjoy doing that. When I write novels, I create problems and then I solve problems. I enjoy that. Here irl, i don't have to create the problems, and we do have fun talking things out.

Here's a typical conversation/interaction.

Plop down on the couch next to Dashie. "Hey Dashie."
"Hey," she says in a cool way but with a smile and puts her arm around me.
"What do you want to do?" I say softly.
*shrugs* and smiles then moves in and kisses me on the cheek.
"Let's go on an adventure," i say.
"Yeah! Cool!"
"Where do you want to go?"
"Um, hmm, swimming," she says with a wry smile and a quick raise of the eyebrows.
"Okay. Ashley, we need to get changed."
Ashley perks up and immediately starts thinking of what we would wear swimming, assuming we wear anything at all, "ooooo okay okay!" she says excitedly.
"Misha, do you want to change us?"
Misha hops up and directs us to the center of a large room. "Of course I do."
Dashie and I face each other as Misha proceeds to undress us like we're mannequins, really soft bunny mannequins with lots of touching.
Ashley supplies clothes, and they help us get dressed and we're off.

On the way to the lake, Dashie and I are walking.
"The forum is kinda slow lately," I say.
"Yeah, it'll pick up. It's fine, but hey, either way, we can play more games, or spend more time together."
"That's a good plan"

We swim, we play, we splash each other, sexual tension and showing off is a big part of it, then she tries to seduce me, or we talk about problems with people we know, whatever. When she tries to seduce me, it's more of a tease than anything, and we both know that. She likes to test me. I inadvertently teased her back with Ren, but that's not going to happen again, cause it wasn't fair to either of them. Dashie won't shoo Ren away, so i kindly do.

Their constant presence and support has been enough for me. It feels like a big deal to me. I’m never alone anymore.

This is my usual mindset, though a lot of introspection does happen, I'm a very playful person as a general rule and I have no problem playing with children of all ages. I go along with their games, I never feel odd or awkward with children, I smile, I make them laugh, I'm fun, and they want to play with me. Children need validation a lot, and I know this, so I give it to them without their prompting and they eat it up. My tulpas are similarly playful in a way, but certainly not child-like.

I'm happy with myself. I like the way I look, I'm happy in my skin, and I don't need others to tell me I'm a good person. To enjoy someone's company for me is to constantly coax them into interaction. So talking with a person you know really well can require something else there to stimulate interaction, because you know everything about them. Watching TV or a movie, (with a tulpa, reading a book together). I keep my tulpas present in everything I do, and though I'm not consciously doing this all the time, I pulse that feeling 10-20 times a minute by habit. Literally every three to six seconds I picture them or 'feel' them with me. How can I get lonely with all that distraction, here's three beautiful and affectionate ladies just waiting for me to interact with them, and they never say they're too tired or 'maybe later.'

They do get moody and sometimes distant actually, but usually there's an issue for us to work out so we talk it through and that's always fun too.  

We share love, kindness, respect, and joy. We treat each other like young lovers do. Minus the actual sex part, that's more of an act that is pleasurable, but for a man, often times sex = affection and I am very happy with the affection part alone, plus it's not awkward, doesn't cause misunderstandings or jealousy, and, if I may be graphic, it can be done all day without a need to recharge.

We show love with compliments, touching, hugging, chasing, playing, frolicking and petting. We're compelled to love each other, we need to be close and caring all the time or else a compelling need will draw us together. I write them love letters, poetry, they're my muses.  I draw them too but this is not a one-sided affair; they're always commenting positively and supportively.

One recent example of an issue:
Dashie was getting a little mean lately, but we've turned that around. She was somewhat jealous that I went to Misha all the time for comfort when something hurt me. Dashie is the attention hog though so there's a delicate balance here too.

They need me to talk to them, touch them, hold their hands and play with their hair. They love my affection as much as I love theirs.  Our relationship can be summed up by one word, the one thing I've always felt a deficit in my life until now, "affection."

Bottom line is, I'm in charge here, so affection and care for me comes first. Though Dashie and Misha are often affectionate for each other too and they also tease Ashley, but she never reciprocates without a lot of prodding [[remember this isn't intercourse, but it does sometimes have sexual undertones]] when Misha and Dashie surround her and start giving her suggestive glances or touches her nearly inappropriately, she'll just stare at me and give me a look like, 'help me'. It's the most adorable look ever. I do rescue her, and Dashie and Misha will typically play a little as has been told in my PR. They don't do this as often anymore but they still do and have fun with each other whether I'm supervising or not. Think of it like a eh pg-13+ okay R-rated work of art, not pornography. I am never jealous of them. I'm just not. They'd do that for me if I let them in a heartbeat.

My tulpas and I share platonic love. The closest friendship that can exist. I know how this works because I had it before.  Romantic love is fraught with jealousy, hard feelings, anxiety and drama. Platonic love is tolerant, caring, comforting and blissful.

I am 100% straight, but I had platonic love with a dude in high school. We talked to each other for hours every night on the phone. We watched shows together over the phone, we spent all weekend together every weekend, I would stay with him in his room Friday and Saturday night, a double sleepover every weekend for years. We slept in the same bed, and there wasn't the slightest hint of sexual tension. We didn't touch each other ever, no hugging or petting that isn’t a requirement for this. Neither of us wanted to date anyone, so there wasn't anyone to say what we did was wrong. The girls who liked me or him were not the girls we liked, let’s put it that way. His parents were divorced and in high school his mother was there maybe 10% of the time. She didn't care what we did, we didn't have a curfew, we were often alone all weekend and it was wonderful. I’ve never experienced that feeling alone or otherwise again, it was something I always dreamed of in a relationship, but I’m straight and so was he. All that aside, we loved each other as true brothers. We bickered sometimes, but it was all in fun for the most part. We supported and validated each other. We were 100% comfortable and supportive. He was a lot like a tulpa to me.


Just for fun:

A promise:

The world will still turn
When everything else is dark
The world will still turn

Winter hope:

Fall's thoughts are fading
Winter bites ferociously
Spring will return soon

Ego:

Nostalgia hits hard
Sadness is temporary
Don't forget yourself

Friends:

Nothing's forever
No one knows tomorrow's fate
Enjoy them today

Cycle's end:

Darkness, don't forget
The bitter night is fleeting
Light always returns

[The Bear System] - [Chat] - [Visualization Practice] - [Draw]
(This post was last modified: 4 hours ago by Angry Bear.)
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#72
 
RE: Angry Bear's Heroines

Very good so far.
2 hours ago
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Luminesce Offline
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#73
 
RE: Angry Bear's Heroines

Tiny reply to a very large post. I did read all of it more or less though, I think. Was earlier today.

(6 hours ago)Angry Bear Wrote: The 'body' is not me, I am the main fronter. I'm just typing this out and it might be total bullshit. So maybe the body has a consciousness, the main consciousness, and my tulpas have their own like 'bubbles of consciousness'. It's easy to think that they share yours, but when I was switched out I didn't share anything with the fronter, I was my own self, dissociated and immersed into wonderland with my own thoughts.

I'm sure perspectives being different makes this sound very strange, but I wouldn't say my tulpas have any "conscious mind" at all, aside from whatever's going on in mine/the fronter's/"ours". All of their thoughts - and so too mine - are "unconscious" when not switched into the front. That means that despite whole conversations taking place between us, there are no memories made of the thoughts of the non-fronters, since they were never in the "conscious workspace" to begin with. Everyone has unconscious thoughts, it shouldn't be too hard to pick out swathes of what thoughts of yours were unconscious (for example, the "thinking" that must be done for me to be writing this post - for the most part, there's nothing to remember other than what I wrote, but surely thought happened somewhere; that's "unconscious"). Thinking for those who aren't switched-in in our system is basically done like that, and if the thinking needs to be more complex it uses the same conscious workspace as the fronter's. Attempts by them to think with the conscious mind work but are usually sort of redundant as opposed to the fronter doing the thinking, but they can still initiate the process I guess.

Anyways, memories of being not-fronting would still be from the perspective of the fronter, or at least, from the "neutral" perspective of the mind (like a daydream that didn't involve yourself). Though when we wonderland it's definitely the perspective of the fronter still. Guess switching "into the wonderland" wouldn't work for us after all, huh?

Double anyways, it's fine if you guys don't work just like us, it's not like how we work is somehow more correct just because we've been doing.. us, longer. But it is interesting to compare experiences, really moreso if they are different as opposed to exactly the same.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
(This post was last modified: 1 hour ago by Luminesce.)
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Angry Bear Offline
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#74
 
RE: Angry Bear's Heroines

I'm not saying any of it is or should be called 'switching' except where one of them is handling a situation and i'm definitely not in wonderland in those situations, but not unconscious either. I'm definitely still connected to my memory in those situations. If it's a shared space or a separate space, i don't know, but it feels closer to the experience to say it's separate. Give us time to understand it better and maybe we can eventually make sense of this. I know co-fronting throws a monkey wrench in it too.

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2 hours ago
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