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Luminesce Offline
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#31
 
RE: Ask Reisen

(03-10-2015, 04:48 PM)SliceOfBread Wrote: What does it feel like to be switched out? Is it merely like watching your body do stuff on its own (sounds more like full-body possession)? Or can you have fun in the wonderland and/or go explore your brain the way a tulpa can do? If so, is your wonderland suddenly much more vivid? Also have you tried getting imposed while a tulpa is in control?

Being switched with my tulpas puts my 'persona' in the same position my tulpas normally are, meaning I can be in the wonderland or imposed or forgotten about like them. It feels like my mind and body are being controlled by a different set of thoughts, morals/values, personality, etc. than normal. From a non-tulpamancy standpoint, it feels like being a completely different person. I'd honestly say my focus never changes, my awareness doesn't go with the persona switch so that I'm completely aware of sitting in my mind. Rather, for example, Reisen takes control of the awareness and acts accordingly, and my thinking is more or less controlled by my subconscious like my tulpas are. But that's just my own experience, which I hear differs from others'.

Also I have had Reisen impose me while switched before. She didn't think it was anything special, but it was really.. weird, for me. Made me uncomfortable. So we don't really do that.

(03-10-2015, 04:48 PM)SliceOfBread Wrote: Reisen: From the intro post, you say you fully understand what your are and what you are not on a logic-y level. In that case, what ARE you? Or more generally, what do you believe is a tulpa exactly? Smile

Reisen: I just meant, for a long time we weren't really sure what we were. Discovering tulpas helped a lot, but even then we have to verify all of our beliefs ourselves. There was a point where Lumi just came to terms with the fact that we were sort of simulated personas in his mind, but also accepted all of us as legitimate people at the same time. So basically we didn't have to feel weird about existing anymore and could be happy together "guilt-free", if that makes sense. I think a tulpa is a persona you create in your mind with all the things a real person has - personality, appearance, beliefs and morals, their own thoughts. And I think once you've developed all that, even though they're in your mind, they have everything that makes them "real" besides their own body.

I don't think everyone really needs to think of their tulpas like this, but we sort of live a logic-y life. Everything has to make sense to us or we're not comfortable believing it. If you don't feel the same way, then you should believe whatever makes you feel the best. Thanks for the questions!


(03-10-2015, 04:48 PM)SliceOfBread Wrote: Tewi: First of all, this <3 <3 <3
Also, what is your definition of reality? I think the physical world is not in any way more “real” than a wonderland could potentially be. As such, living in a perfect simulation of the world/ in a permanent lucid dream/ in the matrix is just as good if not better than living in the real world. Do you agree?

Tewi: Hey, it's that song where Tewi rants about being called Tewi instead of Tei. {Nope, it's actually just really cute lyrics with Tewi being really cute. Also that title is horribly mistranslated. Only realized this two years later.} We have that on our ipod, though I'm officially named Tew-y.
And wow, suddenly deep questions. Reality is what you perceive and believe to be real. It's different for every person because no one is exactly like anyone else, we all live in different realities. I'm interested in how verifiable science connects/clashes with opposing subjective realities though. And those would depend on if you knew you were in them or not. If not, sure, exactly like life. Though lucid dreams would offer much more freedom, like say, the ability for me to exist.


(03-10-2015, 04:48 PM)SliceOfBread Wrote: Flandre: How necessary are strong emotions in the process of achieving a higher level of consciousness? Many of my friends compared me to a robot, and I believe I cannot feel empathy or grief/sadness. Yet, I would never hurt another being consciously and always try to become the best person I can be. Do you feel like I'm really missing out on something?

Flandre: Lumi was pretty much the same way for years, because he logic'd his way out of depression. And what he was missing was happiness and love. You're in a good place as a human being compared to most, but it would be boring to stay there forever. You have to let yourself be happy, actually experience and enjoy life instead of just watching it. The best person you can be is someone who spreads joy to everyone around them, and you can't do that if you're so boring on the outside. That's actually what we're working on right now for Lumi - he's made his internal self pretty happy by default, but outwardly he seems kind of serious, which probably would sooner scare people than make them happy.

It's not really that strong emotions are required (though they can be useful, and that's what Scarlet is for), but no emotions at all isn't really beneficial. Happiness and a feeling of freedom go a long way for your level of consciousness, so I recommend them highly to you. And us. We need more love too.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2017, 09:42 PM by Luminesce.)
03-10-2015, 06:55 PM
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SliceOfBread Offline
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#32
 
RE: Ask Reisen

Cole: The way you describe your switching experience makes me feel like you have really succeeded on that front, which (correct me if I'm wrong) is relatively rare in this community. I have to congratulate you on this.
I'm still wondering though, is your wonderland more vivid when switched out? I feel like not being too tied to the body could allow you to get much more immersed in the wonderland than usual, almost to the point of a lucid dream, although that would probably be very taxing mentally.
And that just made me wonder: would it be possible for you to, instead of completely switching, leave the control of the body to nobody at all and all have fun (the four of you) in the wonderland at the same time? Would that be easier to achieve than in a regular meditation session? I mean, could you use switching techniques to merely separate your consciousness from your body in order to enhance wonderland immersion?

Reisen: Oh yeah, I completely agree with your on that point. I had reached the conclusion that a fully developed tulpa was simply another consciousness sharing the body, and as such, wasn't fundamentally different than the host. Hence why switching could work as well as it does, and why multiples even exist at all. I just need to subconsciously accept that idea to remove all barriers hindering Lea's growth Wink

Tewi: Up until now, I always thought that a tulpa, in most case, had an inherently much more immersive experience than the host when visiting the wonderland, almost as immersive as in dreams. If so, it makes me wonder why you would be so interested in having lucid dreams, apart from the obvious possibility of Cole also being there. But then again, wouldn't it be possible for Cole to simply switch with one of you three, thus allowing the other two to “physically” interact with him while awake? Since I'm considering that two tulpas can “physically” interact with each other, it makes sense that a tulpa and a switched out host would be able to do the same. But of course, I'm assuming that the vividness of the wonderland automatically increases when not controlling the body, which might not be the case :/

Flandre: I can see what you mean. Though I think I would really need to learn to feel the universal love/joy before trying to spread it everywhere I go, it will definitely be one of my long term goal.

Also, reading all those answers to my questions made me feel really happy inside! Thank you, you wonderful people Smile
03-10-2015, 09:52 PM
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Luminesce Offline
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#33
 
RE: Ask Reisen

The wonderland isn't more vivid while I'm switched. The reason tulpas are more immersed in wonderland visualization is your brain says they are. They don't have an awareness besides your own, though naturally the original awareness will simulate theirs. I think we might differ here from normal tulpas again because mine see through a lot of mind-tricks others have a suspension of disbelief for. When we visualize, if we really focus, it's fairly vivid. But no real senses are engaged, and even sight and sound pale in comparison to real life. Being switched.. I guess makes it slightly easier to visualize myself in the wonderland because I don't feel attached to the body, but it's not really noticeable as I don't have issue with that in the first place. When I say my visualization skills are poor, I mean that it's not clear, not that I can't do it well.

Now, I get the feeling you've never experienced a lucid dream, or else you'd have understood the difference fully well. Once you become lucid in a dream, everything becomes completely vivid and realistic. Food tastes like food, touch is touch, sound is sound, and your world is as expansive as waking life. All of your senses are fully engaged whereas in visualization they're just being imagined. As for switching out of the body with no one, we've found the body has a sort of autopilot that everyone runs on without realizing it. We realized this when Reisen forgot she was supposed to be controlling the body one time while conversating with me, and we realized the body was still doing more or less what it should've been. Getting to that state where your body is running on autopilot/you're fully dissociated is alright for visualization, but it doesn't make anything more vivid for me so much as let me remain focused.

But that's all just my experience. You could turn around and have the exact opposite experience if you believed you would. Don't feel locked into trying to replicate others' subjective experiences, 'cus yours are subjective too.

But yeah, basically the interactions while wonderlanding are just imagined, and for tulpas they seem more realistic (or not, for mine) because your/their mind is telling them it is. Which isn't a bad thing, but my tulpas are surprisingly strict when it comes to beliefs about how our mind works. My fault really, but it helps them work out problems with me. And they manage to always stay happy anyway.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
03-10-2015, 11:00 PM
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SliceOfBread Offline
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#34
 
RE: Ask Reisen

Oh, I see!
I've done it again. Every time I find someone I have reasons to admire, I egoistically try to make them confirm my own thoughts to make me feel better instead of actually listening to what they have to say. I'm truly sorry if that annoyed you :/

I have in fact experienced many lucid dreams, and know full well how realistic and amazing they are. However I have never switched, and don't yet have first hand experience from my tulpa telling me how the wonderland works for her. Furthermore, my visualization skills are far from anything good. I mistakenly assumed that switching, in most cases, allowed the host to receive his sensory input from an imagined body instead of from the physical body, thus making it very similar to what happens in dreams. While I believe that it might still be possible, it does not seem to be what you have personally experienced.
Knowing you don't like answering obvious questions, maybe I shouldn't have based my whole last post on a single assumption that didn't apply to you :P
03-11-2015, 01:34 AM
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Luminesce Offline
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#35
 
RE: Ask Reisen

That's not an obvious question, obvious questions are... 95% of the questions and answers forum. If you have an honest question you'd like answered by someone else then by all means ask it.

And oh, I understand. Even the switching others talk about doesn't come with any sort of enhancements like that. Others that say they can switch claim a bit more dissociation from reality, less awareness and more helplessness when switched. But none of those things appeal to me, so I'm fine with how it works for me. I'm gonna stick with what I said earlier though, it only seems more vivid because your brain is telling you it should be. As far as wonderlands go, switching only gives you a sort of mental boost in visualization because you believe you're actually there rather than imagining, but the realness is pseudo, I think. I usually don't say things that might take away from others' experiences by hurting their suspension of disbelief, but you directly asked, so. Basically your tulpas aren't actually experiencing things in the wonderland visualization, your mind is just attributing what happens to their.. selves? So that they believe and act in accordance.

Which is totally fine, and would probably be boring to go without. But when you want to experience that yourself.. You "can", but it won't be "real" like a lucid dream so much as "real" because your brain told you it happened that way, if that makes sense. I feel like I'm overstepping belief preaching here, so.. You didn't annoy me, in fact I'm glad that someone posted in this thread again. It really helps my tulpas stay active.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
03-11-2015, 01:46 AM
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glitchthe3rd Offline
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#36
 
RE: Ask Reisen

Do you like cherry blossoms?

"Science isn't about why, science is about why not?" -Cave Johnson
Tulpae: Luna, Elise, Naomi
My progress report
03-19-2015, 03:35 AM
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Luminesce Offline
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#37
 
RE: Ask Reisen

http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/34612566c...3302fa.png
http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/dd355a400...586c69.jpg

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
03-19-2015, 01:14 PM
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glitchthe3rd Offline
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#38
 
RE: Ask Reisen

Naomi: Ooh, that's a cute kimono :>

"Science isn't about why, science is about why not?" -Cave Johnson
Tulpae: Luna, Elise, Naomi
My progress report
03-19-2015, 01:18 PM
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TheSanctuary Offline
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#39
 
RE: Ask Reisen

And thusly - very expensive kimono! Those things aren't cheap! Even a yukata costs a fair amount!
03-20-2015, 06:28 AM
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glitchthe3rd Offline
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#40
 
RE: Ask Reisen

(03-20-2015, 06:28 AM)TheSanctuary Wrote: And thusly - very expensive kimono! Those things aren't cheap! Even a yukata costs a fair amount!

Money is no object in wonderland though, my girls sleep on satin sheets and (in Naomi's case) wear clothes every day that would cost hundreds or thousands to make.

"Science isn't about why, science is about why not?" -Cave Johnson
Tulpae: Luna, Elise, Naomi
My progress report
03-20-2015, 01:07 PM
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