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Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
asmask Online
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#1
 
Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
Preface - Please read this first!
I've created a sort of FAQ here about my experiment. It's a necessity to read before posting, but you may find it altogether useful to read before reading about the experiment itself.

"Can/should I try to reproduce this experiment?"
- Probably not. This is unsafe for the layperson to do at home, and most medical professionals would advise against it. Moreover, this was something I did having very little time and resources. Taking this into consideration, I think the results are bordering the mediocre. It would be easy for someone with more time and resources to do a much better experiment. Neither I, nor this website, can be held accountable for anything you do.

"Then why did you post it?" - I did this primarily out of personal interest, and secondarily to inspire interest in others. I would like to see thoughts and research about the premise, but again, I heavily advise against trying to recreate the experiment itself.

"Your methods are flawed!" - I agree. This is not to prove a theory, and it's hardly a proof-of-concept. But the data is here for your viewing pleasure.

"You omitted pertinent data!" - I did. This is to protect my privacy.

"You didn't prove anything!" - It's okay.

Abstract
Some models of tulpamancy systems provision for “possession” or “switching” of a host by a tulpa. The aim of this experiment is to detect basic differences in the electroconvulsions of the orbicularis oculi of each of three “switched-in” system members, using intramuscular probes.

Methodology
The probes are 30-gauge acupuncture needles, pushed into two points above and below the subject’s left eye (see below), and connected to a computer sound-card. The sound-card used in this experiment was an ASUS Xonar DG, with generic drivers on Fedora Linux 24  The raw input is recorded in Audacity and the waveform is rendered as a graphics file by Sonic Visualizer.

[Image: IxjEskZ.png][Image: VYc4zco.jpg]

The system performs two tests in one sitting while the probes are implanted. Each of three system members will perform three trials of each test, resulting in eighteen trials of data. In addition to the data collected from the electric potential of the probes, each trial will also be recorded by video.

Test 1 - Staring
This involves the system staring at a blank, white screen from ten feet away for sixty seconds. Blinks, fasciculations, and other anomalies are noted in the video and cross-referenced in the waveform.

Test 2- Reading
This trial involves the system reading a passage of procedurally-generated text from this site, again for sixty seconds. Blinks, fasciculations, and other anomalies are noted in the video and cross-referenced in the waveform.
08-06-2016, 10:57 PM
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asmask Online
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#2
 
Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
The Experiment
Note that only the rendered waveforms are provided, not the video footage.

Test 1

System Member A:

Trial 1:
[Image: eJ9ofzx.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
20 blinks registered out of 20 blinks on film.
Trial 2:
[Image: pdiBP1P.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
19 blinks registered out of 19 blinks on film.
Trial 3:
[Image: V6kB1Oj.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
18 blinks registered out of 18 blinks on film.
Involuntary fasciculation.

System Member B:

Trial 1:
[Image: n1uuOIv.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
5 blinks registered out of 5 blinks on film.
Trial 2:
[Image: vHQHOVl.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
7 blinks registered out of 7 blinks on film.
Trial 3:
[Image: 7YmaARs.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
7 blinks registered out of 7 blinks on film.

System Member C:

Trial 1:
[Image: 39Xdw1c.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
12 blinks registered out of 13 blinks on film.
Trial 2:
[Image: sQ46vUB.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
7 blinks registered out of 7 blinks on film.
Trial 3:
[Image: CQLFKEO.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
7 blinks registered out of 9 blinks on film.
08-06-2016, 10:58 PM
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asmask Online
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#3
 
Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
Test 2

System Member A:

Trial 1:
[Image: lfCQNKD.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
6 blinks registered out of 6 blinks on film.
Trial 2:
[Image: WDZDUAJ.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
9 blinks registered out of 9 blinks on film.
Trial 3:
[Image: JCxvR24.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
6 blinks registered out of 6 blinks on film.
Involuntary fasciculation.

System Member B:

Trial 1:
[Image: EZjaqKu.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
No blinks.
Trial 2:
[Image: C9lH4bh.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
No blinks.
Trial 3:
[Image: wlewNpY.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
No blinks.

System Member C:

Trial 1:
[Image: PWhdqaW.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
3 blinks registered out of 3 blinks on film.
Involuntary fasciculation.
Trial 2:
[Image: YnKFq0j.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
4 blinks registered out of 4 blinks on film.
Involuntary fasciculation.
Trial 3:
[Image: qNxLx2z.png]
(Click the image for the full-size.)
5 blinks registered out of 6 blinks on film.

Thoughts
This procedure doesn’t merit a formal analysis to me, other than to point out some basic observations.
  • The all members seem to blink less often while reading versus while staring.
  • Reading seems to cause significantly more sporadic signals in all members.
  • There is no absolute correlation between blinks and peak electrical activity, despite appearances. Although blinks almost always cause peak activity, there are plenty of examples of peak activity where no blinks were found on the video recording.
  • Member B does not blink in one minute of reading.
Thank you!
Thank you for reading my post. This experiment has been the source of a significant amount of stress to me, both before and during the procedure. I'm glad to be done with it, and I'm looking forward to hearing the community's verdict on this.

Oh, and if you skipped the preface at the top for some reason, go read it now.
08-06-2016, 10:58 PM
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Mistgod Offline
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#4
 
RE: Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
This is really cool!  It must have been hell to do it all.  I think before we say "this doesn't prove anything" we have to know what the goals of the experiments were.  It wasn't to prove a thing.  You stated that, "The aim of this experiment is to detect basic differences in the electroconvulsions of the orbicularis oculi of each of three “switched-in” system members, using intramuscular probes."  It is interesting by itself just with that!  People can take the data and wonder what it means later.  That is how science works after all.  One thing leads to another.  We can't always answer the biggest questions, but we can do some really cool stuff along the way answering smaller questions.  

I would love to know if there is a difference in my brain patterns during REM sleep when Melian dreams as opposed to when I dream.  Now that would be so cool!  It wouldn't prove a darn thing except that I am dreaming something, but it would still be cool if there was any way to pull it off.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2016, 12:01 AM by Mistgod.)
08-06-2016, 11:58 PM
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Yakumo Offline
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#5
 
RE: Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
Right now we only see Member A but I look forward to a direct comparison.
goddamn hidden tags

I admit that's a well planned experiment that could indeed yield solid results.
My main question is - do you see a way to do statistical analysis on the datasets you have obtained? I am not familiar with analyzing waveforms or video data.

If you do in fact see interesting variations between the system members I'd strongly encourage you to find out whether these results are reproducible and to run ANOVA to see if the variation between groups is indeed significantly larger than the variation among replicates.

This would of course involve a far greater amount of datasets but given that the experiments are short it should be managable to do something like 10 replicates.

Another question - are you familiar with eye-tracking software?
It just came to my mind as a way to perform an equivalent experiment without the need to use needles.

Anyway, thanks for sharing, I really think it's a promising path.
Why does the whole thing remind me of Blade Runner?
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2016, 01:02 AM by Yakumo.)
08-07-2016, 12:33 AM
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Chupi Offline
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#6
 
RE: Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
(08-07-2016, 12:33 AM)Yakumo Wrote: Right now we only see Member A but I look forward to a direct comparison.

I see graphs for members A, B and C, for tests 1 and 2. Each is behind a separate [ h i d d e n ] fold.

I'm not entirely sure how much water these results hold or what exactly the probes are measuring -- actual nerve impulses, varying resistance/capacitance due to muscle movement, something about the muscle itself, etc... But asmask says he verified that the signal jumped when he moved the muscle and didn't when he didn't, so it sounds like a valid measure of muscle twitches.

I think the next step would be collecting enough data from each system member to establish a mean and variance for blink rate. Then some conclusion could be reached about whether these system members differ significantly in blink rate during these activities. It'd still be up for grabs whether this is an actual effect of switching, or an effect of some posture difference, how well each member concentrates, etc.

Of course a larger sample size would be good too, but "tulpamancers capable of switching who are willing to be stabbed with needles near their eyes" is a pretty small population.

Lyra: human female, ~17
Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee
Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her
My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)
08-07-2016, 12:52 AM
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asmask Online
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RE: Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
(08-06-2016, 11:58 PM)Mistgod Wrote: People can take the data and wonder what it means later.  That is how science works after all.
The next step, in my mind anyway, would be to repeat the experiment and have some third party see if they could tell which waveforms went with which member based solely on previous data. Would be.

(08-06-2016, 11:58 PM)Mistgod Wrote: I would love to know if there is a difference in my brain patterns during REM sleep when Melian dreams as opposed to when I dream.
Odds are, there's a big machine in a hospital, or something, perhaps within thirty miles of you, that could tell you. It costs a lot of money to use such a machine.

In 2007, there were roughly twenty-six MRI machines available for every one million people in the United States.{1} As common as they seem to be, it's really quite curious that no tulpa-related scans have been documented in 4+ years of the community being an internet meme being known to the public.

(08-07-2016, 12:33 AM)Yakumo Wrote: Right now we only see Member A but I look forward to a direct comparison.
The graphs of all eighteen trials should be visible? Remember, there are two entire posts of graphs and every graph is [hidden] with tags. Read Goopi's post, he beat me to it.

(08-07-2016, 12:33 AM)Yakumo Wrote: My main question is - do you see a way to do statistical analysis on the datasets you have obtained? I am not familiar with analyzing waveforms or video data.
No, I don't really. My favorite way to analyze something like this is "LOL, I know them personally and blinking X times per minute just seems like something they'd do."

But plugging your sound-card into your face isn't exactly industry-standard stuff; I wouldn't really know where to begin to do an actual analysis.

(08-07-2016, 12:33 AM)Yakumo Wrote: Another question - are you familiar with eye-tracking software?

It just came to my mind as a way to perform an equivalent experiment without the need to use needles.
Yes, I know a fair deal about them and I would have loved to do this experiment with a nice camera and expensive software. Unfortunately, that is for someone else out there to try.

(08-07-2016, 12:52 AM)Chupi Wrote: Of course a larger sample size would be good too, but "tulpamancers capable of switching who are willing to be stabbed with needles near their eyes" is a pretty small population.
[Image: eye.jpg]
08-07-2016, 01:09 AM
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Yakumo Offline
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#8
 
RE: Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
Found a workaround to view the hidden stuff.

Now that I see it, there seems to be a huge variance between different trials so you'd probably need a high amount of replicates to get rid of such noise.
Then, the next step would be to see if a computer can assign a certain dataset to a system member or at least cluster the total data into 3 distinct groups.
Well, you could do basic statistics with the counted blinks alone but it should be possible to directly compare signal similarities in the audio files via cross correlation. Here's what you can do with MATLAB for example:
https://www.mathworks.com/help/signal/ex...ities.html

You'd probably need to apply some sort of transformation to the audio file first to reduce the complexity of the data. But again, I've got no experience with the analysis of audio or video files.

Still I'd say this is one of the best experiments I've seen here!
If you find the time, please share what you know about eye-tracking software. I think this has potential as it should be a cheap and simple option for home use. Webcams cost next to nothing nowadays.
(This post was last modified: 08-07-2016, 02:08 AM by Yakumo.)
08-07-2016, 02:07 AM
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KarlYoshimura Offline
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#9
 
RE: Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
Heh, kinda uncanny you posted this thread the same day as my E.C.T. thread.

May I ask what amounts of current were transferred to the electrodes? Did you happen to notice any side-effects while and after your batches of tests were conducted?
08-07-2016, 02:47 AM
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asmask Online
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RE: Basic Intramuscular Electroconvulsive Analysis of a Three-Member System
(08-07-2016, 02:07 AM)Yakumo Wrote: Now that I see it, there seems to be a huge variance between different trials so you'd probably need a high amount of replicates to get rid of such noise.
To the contrary, I was very pleased with the relative lack of variance. The needles are surprisingly sensitive to the slightest movement, and the orbicularis oculi is made of several components, many of which move involuntarily. Although I was presently surprised, I do wish there was more to do with this. I considered watching jump-scares, but that would only serve to complicate things in my mind.

(08-07-2016, 02:47 AM)KarlYoshimura Wrote: May I ask what amounts of current were transferred to the electrodes? Did you happen to notice any side-effects while and after your batches of tests were conducted?
The sound-card has integrated amplifiers. Their operation is really a bit beyond my scope. According to Principles of Anatomy and
Physiology: 7th ed
, you'd expect the facial nerve to operate on a range of voltages between -40 to -90 mV.

There seemed to be a mild histamine reaction at the upper probe, which may have caused the fasciculations that were occasionally seen in members A and C. This reaction subsided within two minutes of removing the needle, at the conclusion of the experiment.
08-07-2016, 03:18 AM
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