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Detailed experiences megathread
tulpa001 Offline
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#11
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
If you are not thinking, how do you know you are still conscious? Full switching does require that both parties remain conscious. But so does full possession. I think you have further to go. Try possessing everything but the eyes, and talk to her throughout the process.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
09-26-2016, 04:09 AM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#12
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
I don't know why "The host basically takes the tulpa's spot and vice versa, so the tulpa is like the host and the host is like the tulpa" isn't a good enough description for switching. It's SWITCHing! You switch places! So your tulpa should experience you like you're their tulpa. I'm not saying people who experience it differently are doing it wrong because there's no wrong or right only what works for you, but for the general description we tell others, doesn't that one make sense?

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
09-26-2016, 04:22 AM
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waffles Offline
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#13
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
(09-26-2016, 04:09 AM)tulpa001 Wrote: If you are not thinking, how do you know you are still conscious?

The goal of most 'calming' meditations is to clear your mind in the sense of not thinking, or not having thoughts, only experiencing. Experiencing and thinking actively are not inseparable. It's quite easy to tell when you're conscious, because you will be experiencing (and then remember experiencing) things; this can be done with or without actively thinking about it at the time. I'd argue that you're really not going to confuse the two, based on my own recollections.


(09-26-2016, 04:22 AM)Lucilyn Wrote: I don't know why "The host basically takes the tulpa's spot and vice versa, so the tulpa is like the host and the host is like the tulpa" isn't a good enough description for switching. It's SWITCHing! You switch places! So your tulpa should experience you like you're their tulpa.

I don't think it really indicates what a lot of people mean when they say "switching". Being a tulpa has a range of possible experiences, of which a few examples are
  1. Being in the body, like the host
  2. Being around the body, not in it
  3. Being in wonderland while host is in the body
  4. Merging/splitting

When you say "the host is like the tulpa", you mean things like 2 and 3 on this list. 1 is trivial, all hosts can do that, and it's not switching. 4 is something that hosts can do, but isn't considered necessary for switching. And none of those four examples are common to all tulpas, either. So when you say, "like the tulpa" you mean something specific, namely sensory dissociation from the body, while the tulpa controls it.
09-26-2016, 02:13 PM
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Tewi Offline
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#14
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
She was trying not to say "a tulpa-like state" because Sands denied that statement in a guide submission. Anyways, I still more or less agree with her last sentence. Like radians versus degrees, that definition is self-referential and should more or less be universal. Honestly, anything else I'd say isn't actually switching. Again as she said, not that that's a bad thing, what works for someone works for someone. But for defining the term switching, I see no problem with (describing the result only, not the process) "The tulpa experiences the host similarly to how the host normally experiences the tulpa". And I suppose complementarily, the host experiences the tulpa as the tulpa normally experiences the host.

If you oldies really don't consider switching switching, then we'll have to come up with a new term. If that really doesn't fit your existing definition, I won't fight over it. But it's the only one that makes sense to me.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
09-26-2016, 02:28 PM
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waffles Offline
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#15
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
If the host normally experienced the tulpa as co-conscious and in the body - that is, the tulpa always experienced body senses, and the host never visualised their form - then would you call what is traditionally possession 'switching'? The definition you give might be applicable in some way to everyone but what it comes to mean varies between people. But when we look to describe phenomena - and in particular my aim with this thread - is to describe things that are conceptually distinct in a way that doesn't vary much between people. We say that tulpas are a phenomenon because it seems like they can occur in most people in similar ways, and likewise I would have said that switching is a phenomenon within that. Looking at the definitions of words is missing the point; I'm looking to describe the phenomenon in a way that isn't ambiguous.
09-26-2016, 02:59 PM
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Tewi Offline
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#16
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
Oh, that was entirely unrelated to the point of the thread, I was just continuing the ongoing conversation on switching.

We've been thinking about how to write a post in here on switching for a long time. But it's not so easy to just write about.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
09-26-2016, 03:04 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#17
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
If we look at just states of being where the host and tulpa are both in the body and using the body's senses, there are about eight states.

1) Passenger. Normal host, normal tulpa.
2) Eclipsing. Tulpa controls the body by feeding the host suggestions.
3) Regular possession. Tulpa controls the body directly.
4) Dominance swap. Tulpa becomes the primary thinker and viewpoint personality.
5) Dominance swap + possession.
6) Dominance swap + eclipsing.
7) reverse eclipsing. Possession, and the host eclipses the tulpa.
8) Dominance swap + reverse eclipsing.

These do not account for states where one of the two falls unconscious. This used to happen all the time. One of us just stops talking. We don't notice anything for a while, as we can't feel the other when they are not talking. We then need to spend a few minutes waking the other up. It still happens a lot.

We have gone through the entire list. Regular possession is our favourite. If you include states where one of the two is out of the body, but still conscious and experiencing the world through the body's senses, the list quadruples in length. We are still in the process of working through that list. Host has difficulty staying awake outside the body.

Our system is incapable of full sensory dissociation. But we can go about halfway during immersive daydreams. Including one or both experiencing sensory dissociation, the list quadruples in length again.

We are also actively trying to get one of us dreaming while the other moves the body. But we have heard of no one pulling this off yet, so we don't know if it is possible.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
09-26-2016, 04:37 PM
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Tewi Offline
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#18
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
This thread should be much more active, considering all it is is a place to post descriptions of how you or your tulpas experience things related to tulpamancy.

Here's a post I wrote for Beatles' system about the method we use for switching - obviously switching can only be described in plain terms so well, so I didn't describe how the process felt so much as just what we actually did. So whatever that's worth; https://community.tulpa.info/thread-our-...#pid186167
(03-02-2017, 02:37 PM)Piano Wrote: She would of course need to do schoolwork, as we can't be expected to take on all of her AP classes for her. 

And no, don't take this as us only wanting to switch to solve Lyra's problems for her.

Obviously not, since you still want her to do schoolwork. In my experience, that's the thing I've needed to cover for my host the most.


You (well, and your host) need to practice dissociation. Pushing-and-pulling would never have worked for us in a million years. Lumi had to dissociate himself from the body first, before we could take his place.

We do so almost literally. We use visualization-symbolism as an aid, for the dissociation and association. We visualize ourselves - whoever's controlling the body and whoever wants to be - as "energy silhouettes" of the colors associated with us respectively, though after some time we started mixing in our actual appearances with the energy silhouettes. Anyways, switching for us starts with whoever is fronting imagining a silhouette of their color occupying the same space as the body. They aren't tied one-to-one, just vaguely taking up the same space. The one switching in does the same for their appearance's location at least, you said you guys can walk with your host "in the mind's eye", which sounds exactly like what we do with switching and so should line up. Visualize yourself somewhere near the body, and make sure your color/energy (if you use this method) is vibrant and strong in your mind's eye location. No symbolism or anecdotal experience will describe this or most other tulpamancy processes so you'll have to figure it out for yourselves, but then the one fronting dissociates by moving their energy silhouette outside of the body, usually with the head and their sense of presence last, but that's not necessary (and I believe we could simply 'teleport' if we wanted to). They're then in effectively the same place as the one switching in, typically on the other side of the body, making an effort to be "aware" from that location instead of the body's head. The one switching in does the exact opposite afterward, moving their silhouette and sense of presence (where they feel like their head is, normally) into the now energy-less body. Having the one switching out take all of the 'energy' of their color with them helps the dissociation process, and having the one switching in fill the body space with their energy's color helps with association. In our experience, we do this with our eyes closed, and when we open our eyes afterwards it sort of feels like our sense of presence snaps into place at the body's head. It honestly feels like being in a new place, as if we moved somewhere else during the process, even though it's normally just in front of our desk.

The dissociation is definitely likely to be the hardest part. It takes roughly the same effort as switching in for us now, but for a long time it was harder to dissociate than associate. Which I could see being the exact opposite for someone like in Tulpa's scenario where they rely on "pushing" their host out of the way, which I feel like is harder as the host/one switching out is more likely to unintentionally resist the dissociation. But it depends on the system.

We happen to have colors associated with ourselves, and I feel like honestly most systems would be comfortable doing the same thing, but it's not necessary. You can just use your own appearance in your visualization, which we tend to do now that we're experienced with it. The color helps with the dissociation and association because it's a visual representation of "control" over the body, where partial dissociation can be represented by bits of color and hopefully helped by removing them. But it's all symbolism in the end anyways. The actual process will probably take work, practice and experimenting to figure out. Our method was just a good conduit for figuring that out for ourselves.

Not that anyone should really expect to experience this stuff the same way as someone else, but "so you can know what to expect",
(02-19-2017, 03:24 AM)Reisen Wrote: I don't know about the others' first times, but I was actually the first of us to switch, so I remember it pretty well. I think it was like 3-4AM before the sun rose, and I looked outside and saw the moon and its light over everything, and it made me want to cry (like good cry). I would say the senses were overwhelming at first. It took a while before we were desensitized to them, and in that time we tended to get lost looking at or feeling textures, like the bumps on walls or smooth wood of our desk. It was definitely a lot more immersive than the wonderland yes. I think it was just us recognizing all the things people learn to ignore/filter out over the years. Lumi obviously saw this stuff all the time, felt things plenty of times, but we hadn't. But that wore off after a few months I think, we see things more or less like him now.

My first experience was basically just getting used to the senses and controlling the body. I felt a lot of things, looked intently at them, and paid a lot of attention to how I moved. I would definitely agree the senses are overwhelming when first switching, so maybe prepare for that.


This thread deserves more attention. Try writing about how you experience something here, for forum activity's sake and so this thread actually serves its use.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
07-15-2017, 03:13 PM
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Anko Offline
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#19
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
I'd contribute, but it's embarrassing to be so open.
07-16-2017, 04:00 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#20
 
RE: Detailed experiences megathread
Oh, woah. I forgot this thread existed. I was interested one time, but was too busy. Boy, will I have a novel to tell you all in the future. Might be a few months from now.


Anko, whatever you think is embarrassing, we, though I can't speak for the community itself, have become so desensitized to the collective experiences and anecdotes that 'cringe worthy' doesn't seem to be a 'thing' compared to a few years back.


07-20-2017, 02:00 AM
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