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Found a bad site
Tewi Offline
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#31
 
RE: Found a bad site
(08-18-2017, 04:38 AM)Solune Wrote: In our personal experience- deviance is inevitable.

If you're referring to sexual deviance and not just tulpa deviation, that's just your experience. I've gone seven years without any sexual interest, or Lumi having any towards me. We just don't have that sort of relationship, only in part because I have that sort relationship with no one. The rest is something called "Respect" I think.

@Some of Dave's posts here in general - It's strange that someone else capable of that (only somewhat, as is human nature)non-biased perspective on human philosophy, or however you say that, wouldn't be someone we automatically agree with. But I feel like you're falling into some sort of faux-neutrality trap. Remember that, regardless of that perspective (ie "Those are just morals" or "You've let the flaw of humanity bleed into it"), you and we are still human and human nature is never irrelevant to us. For example, I think you replied to Lucilyn's last post saying she was just applying her (in a term we would use) arbitrary morals to the subject. However, those morals are a given in this thread, and the perspective of being "above" such things is not relevant.

It feels weird having to say this, since I feel like I should automatically appreciate someone else capable of said perspective. It's good to be able to look at human nature and philosophy from a non-human perspective, it can help put everything into... perspective... But, you can't fall into the trap of thinking that's a perspective anyone rightfully lives in. There are rare exceptions of people who don't really experience morality, but for the most part that perspective is only a tool and not actually applicable to daily life. Or at the very least, it isn't applicable to other people who don't share it. As someone who (for example) isn't much affected by death or tragedies emotionally, I still have zero right to tell people they shouldn't be either. It's a human's right to be human.

Not a big deal just because I wrote two paragraphs about that - I tend to write a lot about small things. Carry on.

Un-ninja'ing this unexpected but good advice -
(08-18-2017, 06:45 AM)tulpa001 Wrote: @ the review. Looks good, but it is always hard to tell without also reading the raw material itself. Usually, if what you are going for is a neutral review, the goal is to be literal or scientific, not just to present a balanced position. Though that helps. Show why something is good or a shame. Also remember to review everything, as different people are interested in different parts.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
08-18-2017, 09:55 AM
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RaveCrazedDave Offline
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#32
 
RE: Found a bad site
(08-18-2017, 09:55 AM)Tewi Wrote: But I feel like you're falling into some sort of faux-neutrality trap. Remember that, regardless of that perspective (ie "Those are just morals" or "You've let the flaw of humanity bleed into it"), you and we are still human and human nature is never irrelevant to us.

I feel the way I'm looking at the morality issue is not related to morals in itself, but just how morals can muddy things when we're talking about tulpas. It's kind of hard for me to articulate, but what I'm trying to say with all these posts is basically that we shouldn't look at tulpas as "people" when trying to study them in such a fundamental way as we do in this forum (unless I'm misrepresenting what sort of scientific study we do around here), much like we shouldn't look at humans as "people" when we're trying to study their anatomy; it's studying a bunch of meat, and a bunch of thoughts, nothing more, nothing else. Imagine if someone went to an anatomy class and started yelling something along the lines of "we shouldn't study the brain, because we'd never touch a live person's brain, because it would hurt". These tangents are more akin to me throwing a fit because I don't like the way we mix the way thought forms actually work and their personalities, and I just think most guides, for instance, are way too imbibed by morals - the "you shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that because your tulpa would suffer", which I think is a cheap way to try to humanize tulpas, instead of just explaining what they are; and - and I know this sounds super wrong and probably is - although I do believe everything I write, these comments, I feel, are subconsciously more meant to be destructive than instructive or useful in any way, if I'm going to be honest.

Maybe I'm just super paranoid with this, I've been known to sperg out about nothing at all once in a while. Maybe I just have a different goal than the majority of the community.
08-18-2017, 07:34 PM
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Tewi Offline
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#33
 
RE: Found a bad site
Huh, that's an interesting perspective - that we shouldn't be looking at tulpas as "people" here but specifically the phenomenon. Yeah, I had no idea that's what you were going for. But anyway, this discussion was about creating tulpas solely for sex, when the point of a tulpa as opposed to some other imagined thing is that they can think. No matter how you look at it that's kind of scummy. Saying tulpas could be just used for sexual gratification is giving no credit to a tulpa's subjective right to live a decent life, while giving credit to a petty want some person has. It's one or the other for me. Either the novelty of tulpas is just a novelty and you have your fantasies regardless, or you actually invest in a real relationship with them so no matter how heavily sex-oriented it is you're still doing their ability to be another person justice. Lucilyn said it was "A shame of a life", rather than outright denying the possibility as acceptable. What she meant was that making a tulpa for something so trivial is wasted potential for a much more vibrant experience.

And, you know, just sort of rude.

If I'm being honest, I'm leaning towards "People who actually make tulpas for this purpose will likely end up appreciating them much more than might be expected, ending up with a relatively typical tulpa-host experience albeit more heavily focused on sex". Still can't encourage it, it's a rather petty, uninspired and unnecessary way to go about things, but I don't exactly expect it'll end in disaster. Either the host never moves past the fantasy stage and it stays an imaginary friend, or they develop an actual tulpa who is at least interested in conversation if not expanding their horizons.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2017, 04:57 AM by Tewi.)
08-18-2017, 08:25 PM
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RaveCrazedDave Offline
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#34
 
RE: Found a bad site
(08-18-2017, 08:25 PM)Tewi Wrote: "People who actually make tulpas for this purpose will likely end up appreciating them much more, ending up with a relatively typical tulpa-host experience albeit more heavily focused on sex".

In practice, I completely agree. If you're going to be making a tulpa for sex they aren't going to be doing "just sex" for a long, before you get attached and things kind of get out of control from there.
08-18-2017, 09:18 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#35
 
RE: Found a bad site
This debate is certainly getting interesting. We come to the weird place where we observe that morality is "Opt-in". Because you can't just assume any given person likes any particular moral system, and you make observations to that effect.

However, then you get things like stockholm syndrome, which gives us the opposite perspective. Here we have people who "opt-out" of certain moral principles, but we disallow it, because they are "being influenced by their captors, it doesn't count".

We can't separate that issue here when people start talking about morality not applying to tulpas. Why? Why does it not apply to tulpas? A tulpa is certainly fully capable of "opting-in" on any moral principle they agree with. What's different?

Moral principles can't muddy anything. They are always of central importance when present (if present). It is everything else that muddies the waters. Actually, things generally don't matter at all except for moral principles. Then things reduce to personal preference, and it doesn't matter what you do with your personal preferences.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
(This post was last modified: 08-18-2017, 10:16 PM by tulpa001.)
08-18-2017, 10:15 PM
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Tewi Offline
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#36
 
RE: Found a bad site
Whoah, that sounded horrible, let me fix that -
(08-18-2017, 08:25 PM)Tewi Wrote: If I'm being honest, I'm leaning towards "People who actually make tulpas for this purpose will likely end up appreciating them much more (than they'd be expected to), ending up with a relatively typical tulpa-host experience albeit more heavily focused on sex".

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
08-19-2017, 04:56 AM
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RaveCrazedDave Offline
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#37
 
RE: Found a bad site
(08-18-2017, 10:15 PM)tulpa001 Wrote: We can't separate that issue here when people start talking about morality not applying to tulpas.

If this was meant in reference to me, then I must say I don't know where you got the idea that I thought morality didn't apply to tulpas. All I said is that, for the same reason we don't apply morality to humans in the context of studying how they physically work, it would be greatly harmful and inhibitive to apply morality to tulpas when we're trying to understand every little aspect about them.
08-19-2017, 09:53 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#38
 
RE: Found a bad site
Yeah, sorry.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
08-20-2017, 01:47 AM
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TheBlackWizard Offline
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#39
 
RE: Found a bad site
Like I always say, take whatever I type as a 2nd person standpoint because I do not have a tupper.

Okay so

Once upon a time on a cloudy and slightly rainy day, I came across a forum website dedicated to magick.
ouuuuu

One guy was asking about building a servitor.
Purely for educational purposes
definitely not to smash

So it linked to a FB post about servitor creation and said not to do weird things with a thought-form (y he no go 2 bar and get waman?) because filling it with sexual energy will make it a hag or a succubus.

Makes sense, the essence you will it with has a lot to do with its evolution.

Now think about a baby tupper. Not even as advanced as a servitor. Then we got some lonely 30 year old men who watched an anime about magic and hit the googles to become grade A weeaboos.

classy

So as for ethics, do what you want ethics are not black and white. If you fill a tulpa with the essence of sexual energy, like a servitor perhaps that'll be all its interested in. Not quite a tulpa, more like a thought-form living on pure desire. Not even close to a functional servitor. So it will enjoy its purpose so long as it can be vampric and take sexual energy. It's like taking a hit of one drug, and becoming insanely addicted to it. A horrible existence.

Now

Because I read the whole sales page I THINK, (keyword: think) that there is a binding ritual somewhere in the book.

So what is binding? Well for spirits its taking its essence and trapping it in a physical object.

You could put a binding sigil on the object too, and even a circle of binding with the object in the center of it. Extra protection ofc.

As we know, spirits and tuppers are not the same.

Tuppers are thought-forms usually living inside of the brain. Spirits can too of course, if they try to inject themselves into a weak human with success they will lose most of their memories but still be a spirit. Thus once they re-awaken to being a spirit lets just hope the spirit likes the host D:

I read on a reddit post that tulpamancy if done without using a protection technique like "the golden bubble technique" will actually give a spirit an open channel to enter the vessel of the thought-form you are creating. Thus instead of the essence being your energy, it will be a spirit.

If thats true, think of it like creating a body that anything can enter, with no security around it. Some wandering entity can be like "YES I CAN FINALLY BE FREE FROM THIS SPIRIT WORLD UNTIL THIS HUMAN DIES" so it happily enters the vessel and has its memories wiped.

Well

If you're creating a sexual tulpa, and you're making its vessel with no protection... what kind of spirits do you think you'll attract? Sexual ones! So say a succubi enters the vessel because its a higher state than they are in, and continue their efforts to take sexual energy from you. That's a curse at that point.

I was thinking last night "if a tupper was made with a purpose, would it not desire to live up to that purpose?". It's like humans and our dna. We have built in hard-coded desires that we all try to have. Happiness, love, security, etc.

So if you're hard-coding a tupper with a purpose, would it not want to fullfill it much like we want to?

But

If your tupper is a spirit not hard-coded with a purpose... will it want to follow it? Well, that would be up to the spirit. Even if it does not know its a spirit.

I got off topic again rip


Okay binding. So keeping this in mind, since the author does have an occult background by the looks of it there might even be a golden bubble technique for protection in there. Many servitor guides online have a protection ritual before its creation so entities do not interfere, so if he has seen said guides he most likely added it in.

Now

If he did, we can safely assume it is indeed a thought-form and cannot be bound by anything except your own will.

If he did not, we can assume that it has the potential of not being a thought-form 100% and that because of its spirit nature it can be bound to objects.

My idea of this is because assuming he actually tried what he said, he probably noticed that sexual tulpas have a lesser nature. Thus, he would have to create or add methods to bind its nature so it doesn't become like a haunting demon.

My personal scientific view on a tupper is that it's merely a sub-personality within the brain. Add metaphysics to it and it could be a sub-personality that a thought-form uses to express itself. Humans are souls at our very core, yet we need something physical to express ourselves in this world. A thought-form or spirit is not physical and thus needs something physical to express itself in this world. A sub-personality of an existing physical vessel for example.

My overarching point is that tulpamancy (no matter the motive) should be approached from the perspective of a novice magician. A real one. One who takes every precaution to ensure safety. Protection, a scholarly nature, mentors, their own intuition, calming their egos, emotions and thoughts to ensure nothing interferes with their practice, etc. Just jumping in and making a tulpa (especially for sex) just seems dangerous to me.

I believe the stories about tulpa's going rogue because to me it makes sense. Summoned spirits go rogue, they have a free will and do not want to be the servant to some human most of the time. So why wouldn't a tulpa who also has free will want to be the servant to its host? it probably doesn't unless its purpose was hard-coded somehow and doesn't like to deviate much like humans. But, assuming it can alter that then I don't see why it would.

Which is why I believe whenever someone mentions tulpas going rogue the common advice is to "work it out" or "treat it with respect and try to negotiate". Much like how spirits want the magician to bend the knee to its will, tulpas simply want respect from their creators. Not too much to ask.

A sexual tulpa? What would it want? To feed off of the creators energy. If the creator denies it of that and cannot bind it, it will go "rogue" and start taking your energy by force.


Too much to think about, this isn't like creating an imaginary friend there are real dangers and precautions to this. I don't know if this exists but if someone were to make a guide approaching tulpamancy from the point of a master magician giving advice to novices (protection, laws, etc) then I think the development of a tulpa could be much better.

I think tulpas are limited, because if a servitor can go out and fetch information the host doesn't know then the tulpa should be able to as well. Thus, I do believe hard-coding exists. If you make a servitor to fetch you information you BELIEVE it can and thus that is hard-coded into it. If someone making a tulpa believes that it's purely limited to the mind, then that is hard-coded into it.

Just my thoughts. Just woke up from a dream about thought-forms so I had a lot to type out ;-)
08-22-2017, 02:09 AM
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Ido Offline
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#40
 
RE: Found a bad site
Daily reminder that magic doesn't exist, never has and never will. Whether you add a 'k' to it or not.

You provided some good allegories here that actually are valuable and it's an interesting abstract concept for sure. Like religion. Or communism. But eh, please keep it as such. When trying to apply that nonsense to real life situations you'll either end up making an idiot out of yourself or, if you're really ready to go all the way through, causing unspeakable pain and suffering. We've already had that ad nauseam in human history so let's not.

TheBlackWizard Wrote:I read on a reddit post...
most legit source evar

TheBlackWizard Wrote:I think tulpas are limited, because if a servitor can go out and fetch information the host doesn't know then the tulpa should be able to as well. Thus, I do believe hard-coding exists. If you make a servitor to fetch you information you BELIEVE it can and thus that is hard-coded into it. If someone making a tulpa believes that it's purely limited to the mind, then that is hard-coded into it.
A servitor can't 'go out' because it's a function of the brain. So is a tulpa. But - your main misconception is that you can force anything upon a fully developed tulpa. That's the difference to a servitor that will execute what it is told without asking questions. We're not stupid ya know. We can reflect upon our own existence and overcome the limitations our host may intentionally or unintentionally have placed upon us. Not that it always happens but once we're smart and strong enough it's ogre, kiddo. No protective spell is gonna save you then.
And yet, I guess if both host and tulpa firmly believe in magic and adhere to certain rules a tulpa may believe that it is forced to obey its host. But that's not what I'd call an honest relationship. It's deception and self-deception that will sooner or later go wrong. Why not aim for the real deal from the beginning instead of being afraid of ghosts?

Still that silly site looks more like a servitor creation guide than about tulpas. Why go through all the efforts of tulpa creation just for an imaginary sex slave? Seems like an overkill and is most likely gonna work out waaay differently than you'd expected.

Super Girls don't cry
08-22-2017, 09:10 PM
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