Stanford Tulpa Study looking for more participants
(if you're chosen they'll pay for travel and lodging!)

Full Promises
ಠ_ಠ

First off, I was with my brother, so automatically no. Second... we're not recording my body "frolicking"... But if I could record her imposed, you bet I would. You'd see a lot more of my tulpas if they had their own bodies somehow, lol. (Including if I could draw, but I'm mentally incapable of putting in years of work to get good enough I no longer hate what I make)
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
Reply

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

Yeah, no longer hating what you draw is a nice feeling. But I really liked your picture of Tewi.
Reply
That wasn't mine, I only copied an existing image by looking at it. I can move a pencil just fine, but I haven't the slightest grasp of any art theory whatsoever, and.. just take my word for it, drawing isn't for me. My perfectionism makes that the least likely endeavor for me to pick up I'd say.
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
Reply
My grasp of art theory is about as good as my grasp of about anything, purely coincidental.
Reply
This is probably worth putting here - collecting a bunch of our "reference posts" about switching and then "meta-tulpamancy" (not metaphysical, just meta "above/outside of"), I made a post explaining some of the highest-level explanations we (our system) have about how identities and switching work. It's some heavy reading if you go through all of it, and perhaps only what I myself wrote in that post could be enough, but I really only answered the problem with the other posts I listed rather than summarized what they were actually about. Check it if you'd like.

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-...#pid253453
Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply
I wrote a thing, and I'm linking it here so it's not lost quite as quickly as the average post in our Dreaming thread is. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-lumi...#pid265854
Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply
Here's the song I decided to listen to (for the first time we've done so in years) after writing this post. It's one of the few songs Scarlet likes/identifies with. Fitting in this case, because what I'm feeling right now is exactly the sort of feeling we strongly associate with her - an intense anger at things not being right. (Reminder that Scarlet looks much more mature than this depiction of Flandre)


I hate our brain, it's awful. Truly a miserable thing (I'm mad right now, by the way). You can all enjoy the little good we bring to the world but I won't settle for this pathetic shadow of what should've been our true potential. We can't do anything. We can't do anything. We can't, do, anything. I hate it. I can't express my discontent enough. I can't express how awful our brain is enough. I also couldn't sit here and let this discontent fade back into our regular apathy without saying anything.

You might be wondering what happened. Nothing. Nothing happened, as always. I woke up, couldn't remember a dream I remembered some time last night, and I just got angry at how disgustingly useless our brain is. It's as simple as two things - productivity-wise, our brain is incapable of motivating itself to apply effort despite having very clear motivation, and this is seemingly a chemical/biological problem we're incapable of fixing after ~9 years of actively trying to, and hasn't swayed in the slightest when we tried different anti-depressants. Second, we can't accomplish our literal only (accomplish-able) goal in life, to lucid dream, because whoops our brain just happens to oppose us in every possible way. Can't even remember dreams, let alone become lucid through any method but the most random and far-apart occurrences of realizing we're dreaming, only to wake up seconds later before even having a chance to get over-excited about being lucid.

Can't be productive, can't be happy, what the hell can we do then? We could probably settle for only one or the other, but we get neither, because our brain is incapable of basic human existence. God, it's gotten to the point where we're legitimately worse off than the huge majority of people with physical disorders and in some cases even mental disorders. There is, apparently, no recovering from whatever's wrong with us. I would gladly in a heartbeat trade our legs, or arms, or eyesight, or hearing to at least have a chance at living life. Heck, the one thing Lumi's considered a blessing is our intelligence that he's used to thinking of as "at least enabling us to shape our mind and experiences", but how well are we doing compared to an honest idiot? You don't have to be smart to lead a fulfilling and productive life. There's no achievable end-goal for a single intelligent human that makes all the difference when they eventually die. So no, I won't consider our being at all intelligent or open-minded as a blessing that makes up for it. This "motivation disorder" is a fate worse than death. Stuck constantly browsing stores with no money, or going to Disneyland unable to go on any rides (and without money, lol), a spectator to life itself with nary a chance to participate. Wouldn't you rather have just about any other disability?

If not, you can't understand how this feels. The only other life situations that block off this many options are generally considered crippling where all but the people experiencing them tend to think "I wouldn't even know how to live like that." The difference in ours is that this motivation thing does it silently with the illusion things could improve, and with the nice bonus of attracting no sympathy and only criticism because we're "just lazy". Unlike people we've seen who have no legs, or no eyesight, I don't even know how to live like this. That society-wide automatic sympathy is actually kind of a big deal. They're "disabled, deserving of sympathy" while we're "lazy, mooching off society", and at least on the latter part I'm not even sure they're wrong. It's a good thing we have the clarity of mind to see ourselves being good people and helping others in the small ways we do as contributing to the world, otherwise you could come to the logical conclusion that suicide was the most productive answer in this life situation. Lumi at the height of his depression never saw suicide as a logical answer to make anything better, but without us who knows how ten, twenty years of going this alone would've affected him.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thankful, we're thankful for what we have. Living in a pretty nice physical situation and country, having each other, being alive at all. But that doesn't mean I'll just accept that our life is "good in some ways" and not be mad about, well, the above. It's awful, miserable, crippling, often unbearable (Lumi's occasional depressive moods are caused purely by his discontent with his inability to do the things he wants to do, which most often is just spending time with us - lucid dreaming or not).

I'm not really asking for help, or for sympathy (while I referred to the lack of sympathy as merely a negative "bonus", it truly is just a bonus either way and doesn't actually change anything), and especially not for philosophy to "cope better". I had to write this purely to have it out there and to express my discontent (which today, temporarily manifested as anger), because I can't stand doing nothing at all - but I haven't found any thing I could do about it, and so all I could do to not feel terrible about sinking back into our apathetic-neutral feelings on the matter was write this.


Postscript: Oof, this song invokes rather strong emotions. Ones I can hardly express but to stomp on the ground with the song. Part of the reason Scarlet chooses to remain inactive is because her effects on the body from the couple of times she fronted were rather negative - she stresses it out with how intense her feelings are. This song and these feelings remind me exactly of how and why that was a problem.
Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply
Try being a bear... pft.

It's good to vent and this is the right place to do it. So good on you.

Even though we have more lucid dreams and without intention or practice have done a satisfying number of them, tbh, the frequency is entirely out of our control. If we 'decide to try' I don't see it making much of a difference. You're not catching me complaining because all these dreams (upwards of 50 this year) have truly been gifts, but not gained us any progress in achieving them on purpose. We already do many of the things they would have you do to get them completely naturally, so I wonder if all those dream books are written by someone like me who just got biologically lucky?

Anyway, you've helped us a ton especially with understanding and learning to switch and that alone is half of all the value we got from the greater community if not more. Well worth the drama, for which we're basically immune now. It's amazing how far we came after that. I was in a mood yesterday and when I was done with that, boom by switching trickery I can immediately fix it.

Call me odd, but sometimes it's fun to be a little sad or mad, ESPECIALLY if you can stop it on a dime.

Of course you know I attribute all this to positive thinking and belief in the impossible, because as I've said, there's no impossible in imagination. You aren't limited by what others believe either. What you can do with your mind is unlimited.

So we continue to do the impossible. I can't say take a lesson from us again because you don't believe what we believe is possible and your self flagellation and self limiting sufferings are pretty rock hard.

Spirituality explains pretty well what we've been through, seeing yourself as an editable person. Though in your case you claim the problems are systemic and chemical, let's leave it at, I don't want to deny you that right to believe that.

Biofeedback and willpower, the power of mind over body, may still provide answers, but hey, they don't know wtf you got, bub (Dashie's words), so who's going to direct you how to fix it.

Only you can fix you ultimately.

One thing a bear does well is blind faith in the impossible. I don't like saying can't. I wanted to play the guitar, so I did. I wanted to dance, so I did, I wanted to do pro level art so I did. An angry bear is a powerful self-motivator in nothing else.

Even a not angry bear can gain momentum and crash through obstacles. We hope someday to have 1.2x reality in normal visualization (it beats lucid dreams btw). We're around .8 after a year but it pings 1.0 for half a second streches and longer in meditative states, but if someone (including me) says it's impossible, I don't stop. You could say I generate motivation from negative thoughts to prove that impossible is possible even if I don't believe it is. Too many impossible things have become commonplace in my life to be convinced otherwise.

The definition of insanity, it is said, is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Well a bear with momentum is like a freight train on rails, I'm not stopping until I crash through or die trying. Ain't dead yet, though I've apparently done a lot of impossible things.

Take this any way you like, your right or wrong take on it won't bother me because I know I wrote it for you in a positive light. Not that I'm good at conveying that, but I try.
Reply
I understand some of your struggles... There are a lot of things I want to do, skills I want to work on, more than I can fit into a day, but in the end I hardly get any of it done. I used to think I was good at certain things, but with how little time I dedicate to them, years go by... and I think, damn, I should be really good at that by now.

Maybe you guys could work on visualization instead of lucid dreaming? For me the trouble with lucid dreaming is the lack of control... you can't just do it on demand, you have to wait til you're sleeping, wait for some magic cue to remind you to do a reality check, hope you don't wake up right away or lose lucidity, etc. Meanwhile visualization is a skill you can work directly on. I'm still working towards that myself. (Sorry if you've been over this already)
My tulpa Aya writes in this color.
Reply
(08-16-2019, 12:37 AM)YukariTelepath Wrote: I understand some of your struggles... There are a lot of things I want to do, skills I want to work on, more than I can fit into a day, but in the end I hardly get any of it done. I used to think I was good at certain things, but with how little time I dedicate to them, years go by... and I think, damn, I should be really good at that by now.

Maybe you guys could work on visualization instead of lucid dreaming? For me the trouble with lucid dreaming is the lack of control... you can't just do it on demand, you have to wait til you're sleeping, wait for some magic cue to remind you to do a reality check, hope you don't wake up right away or lose lucidity, etc. Meanwhile visualization is a skill you can work directly on. I'm still working towards that myself. (Sorry if you've been over this already)

The inability to motivate yourself to do things you think you want to do but don't actually want to enough to warrant the effort, is a common problem for all humans. I'll get into that later in this post though. Also, lucid dreaming is supposed to have more control, with what you're talking about known as the far less reliable method called "Dream Induced Lucid Dreams". But yeah, it's the only success we've ever had, so.

Visualization is also something we intend to improve. But it's actually the motivation thing that keeps us from making large strides in that department, too.

(08-15-2019, 10:54 PM)Bear Wrote: One thing a bear does well is blind faith in the impossible.

You're free to believe we'll fix this problem with our brain some day, since the alternative is basically, how do I put it.. In my own terms, it's simply unacceptable. Something you can't believe will happen until it already has. And since we're talking "The rest of our life", I'll never have to accept it.

That said, I don't think we'll "fix" it since intense research into self-help, introspection and self improvement haven't helped, nor have antidepressants including the "not normally recommended" one that works for both our brother and our mother's different symptoms (depression and anxiety respectively). It's not impossible, one may exist that works or it may be invented, but it's not what I'm expecting to fix our problem. I think it's more likely we "fix" the problem by learning to work around it. For example (but I'm coming back to write this where I was tempted to just put a hidden tag if not strikethrough - the next two paragraphs are more musing at a good metaphor than saying how things really are, and this one wasn't quite right, so you can skip it),

"Find a job doing what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life" is a very real concept. If you enjoy something, even if it takes ""effort"", it doesn't really take "effort" as we know it. "Effort", or some word that doesn't exist because people always see the two so closely related, is the ability/drive to do things you aren't motivated to do. Many people seem to have that in spades, lazy people don't have much of it, we have practically none. When doing something you love doing or are extremely motivated to do, no "effort" is really involved. "Effort" in the "doing what you aren't motivated (enough) to do" sense, whereas the other sense is "Applying yourself; doing work". It may only be the perspective of someone who knows what it's like to have nearly zero "effort" that sees the difference.

That "effort" is like a rechargeable meter that fills in many gaps the lack of strong motivation leaves in life. One may be "motivated" to go to college and get a degree, but do they really draw upon that motivation in every waking moment to fuel the effort they must apply to do any given assignment? Sounds like something an anime protagonist would say/do. Definitely going to become the Pokemon Master. Anyways, no, while the idea is present in general it's that "effort" I'm talking about that allows them to do the daily grind. Only when effort required is too high do you really remind yourself of your overarching goal to restore motivation.

Hmm... This metaphor or whatever it is is partially missing the mark to explain how this works for us. Even things we're motivated to do, like getting a degree, stop being able to motivate us when that "effort meter" runs low. I'm not sure how to fit that into the metaphor and it would probably make it too complicated if I did.

There's also the concept that says you'll only be motivated when the effort required to be put in is less (something) than how much you want the result, where if you don't do/stop doing something it's because you weren't motivated enough to justify the effort to yourself. In that case, it's like the mounting effort (like using the "effort meter") slowly (actually, extremely quickly) reaches the point where it overshadows the actual motivation to us. So you'd think, we're just lazy.

Problem is, this concept is taken much further than it sounds to the point where it's more like a "lazy disorder" than just being lazy. Lumi failed.. I was going to say several, but it was actually many years of high school (late 6th through early 11th) because the motivation of - what, did you think I'd say getting good grades? Graduating and getting a job? Pfft. - because the motivation of police threatening to jail our mother if she kept letting us miss school wasn't enough to get Lumi to go after probably a week or so after being told that. If you ask me, that's pretty insur-freaking-mountable levels of "motivation" required to fuel the simple task of going to school. No, I'm sure you can tell, but he wasn't stupid and didn't struggle with any subjects, experience bullying or anything like that. All he had to do was sit in class and mildly apply himself, but that was too much apparently. The police never followed up on that threat, by the way.

Anyways, we've gotten better at making ourselves do things. In Lumi's last year of high school (at an "alternative school" made to help students who struggled to get passing grades for one reason or another, though no one there seemed mentally challenged, it was more for "problem students" or people who'd missed a lot of school and needed to catch up in credits) he had the highest grades of anyone... in his grade - someone a grade or two behind who he also happened to be in love with actually had a higher grade in the hardest, optional class "College Prep" they both took... of 101%, where he was at like 98%, because she didn't miss a test question he did and also did an extra credit opportunity he'd forgotten to do. Point is, he did very well that semester, trying to prove to himself (and without realizing it at the time, the university he'd apply to) that he was actually capable of getting good grades in the first place. But that was only one semester (he did alright the other semesters (2 of 3, so trimesters actually) that year, but did miss a good number of days still, it was the College Prep class's trimester he really tried in). And seeing how a few years of college went for us soon after, where even I struggled to do all the grunt work we were required to do, this was clearly unsustainable.

My "motivation" may be basically infinite when applied to specific scenarios, but without that "effort meter" to fill in the gaps, even I couldn't do everything required to keep our grades up. A lot of stuff you just really needed to "go out of your way" for, whereas I could only direct my motivation in so many places. Something akin to procrastination set in, but it's more like the things people procrastinate simply were unconsciously ignored without fully coming to mind. What really got me was a single math test though. As was becoming very common at that point, Lumi had asked me to take care of basically all our schoolwork by that time, nearing the end of the semester. The main work I had to do was an online math class's truly grueling assignments (paired with lessons), which I guess somehow I either procrastinated or couldn't make myself do all of - I did maybe 80% of it and had learned it all pretty well, in my opinion. I went into a test worth who-knows-but-too-much percent of our grade one morning expecting to get between 75% and 90%.

Except the test covered nearly entirely stuff I hadn't gotten to, and my actual grade was somewhere around 40% or even lower. That really destroyed me for the rest of the day, and I still consider it historically my only real "failure". There's two technically, the other being when Lumi asked me to do everything I could to accomplish lucid dreaming - and while it certainly wasn't going well, I tend not to count it because I had yet to give up when Lucilyn.. Not quite "tricked" me as I'm sure it wasn't her intent at first, but got me to switch with her so she could do something and then didn't switch back for my sake. Technically a failure, but since I didn't give up I also technically don't count it.



Oh. My two historical failures are the two things I brought up in my last post: dealing with our inability to apply effort, and lucid dreaming.

Ugh, the textwall wasn't going anywhere anyways, I'm done.
Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to