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[General] Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
tulpa001 Offline
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#21
 
RE: Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
The one universal truth of all religions, they think other religions are nuts.

You said you think a union of ideas is a key to enlightenment. But I see people talking about side issues and missing the core points more than anything else in this thread.

The Black wizard is very correct about one point. Attaining spirituality both grants the ability to do things like create a tulpa and removes your desire to do such things. I wonder when I hear theories of spirituality based around attaining power. Because I am constantly reminded that that is so very not the point, and will actually lock you out of enlightenment.

Some formulations of enlightenment just don't even sound worth it to me.
-- Complete isolation
-- Complete removal from life
-- Complete destruction of emotion
-- Complete destruction of motivation
-- Complete cessation of thought.

My host agrees. From my perspective, the only point there could be to pursuing such things is to become a better person. And learn some new experiences along the way.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
08-10-2017, 09:28 PM
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BoringOne Offline
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#22
 
RE: Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
(08-10-2017, 09:28 PM)tulpa001 Wrote: The one universal truth of all religions, they think other religions are nuts.

You said you think a union of ideas is a key to enlightenment. But I see people talking about side issues and missing the core points more than anything else in this thread.

The Black wizard is very correct about one point. Attaining spirituality both grants the ability to do things like create a tulpa and removes your desire to do such things. I wonder when I hear theories of spirituality based around attaining power. Because I am constantly reminded that that is so very not the point, and will actually lock you out of enlightenment.

Some formulations of enlightenment just don't even sound worth it to me.
-- Complete isolation
-- Complete removal from life
-- Complete destruction of emotion
-- Complete destruction of motivation
-- Complete cessation of thought.

My host agrees. From my perspective, the only point there could be to pursuing such things is to become a better person. And learn some new experiences along the way.

Well, the key of the topic was to answer the question will a person regret creating tulpa as decades pass, but I think I got the whole picture.
Then followed the discussion of the tulpa effect on afterlife and life, so I think the core of this thread is followed and it is actually interesting.

Going back to enlightment, the points you stated actually make sense to me. Nitzsche, for example has reached the enlightment, even though it is worth pointing out that he died of AIDS. The point that doesn't make sense to me is the refusal from the material things. I mean, I understand the idea that in order to fully realize your existance you need to cope happiness from ourselves. In a way finding happy boxes in our souls and opening them, though it is a nature of a person to be dependent on materialistic things. Otherwise we would be extinct long ago, because as in raw strengths we are weaker than many. I think coming up with all of those spirituality ideas was done too late, because humans exceeded every animal long ago, so there is no one left to fight, but ourselves.

Also I don't believe that anyone can become a better person, it is too subjective. It doesn't matter what image person builds, in the end with more knowledge any person eventually becomes worse and worse.

Regret doesn't change me
08-10-2017, 10:57 PM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#23
 
RE: Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
(08-10-2017, 10:57 PM)BoringOne Wrote: It doesn't matter what image person builds, in the end with more knowledge any person eventually becomes worse and worse

lieswrongfakefalse! That's a terrible belief! There's far too many good people in the world to say that. Just because it's not how you think doesn't mean it can't be the case, and people think a LOT of different ways than other people. It's a huge world! 7,500,000,000 people! I think Lumi has become a much better person over the years especially 'cus he's learned more. And there's no way I'm going to become a worse person as I get more experience in life. You're asking for others' opinions, but I think you want to believe what you already believe no matter what they say..

(You ARE listening to their answers I mean, I just think you don't actually want to have your mind changed deep down)

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2017, 11:08 PM by Lucilyn.)
08-10-2017, 11:07 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#24
 
RE: Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
(08-10-2017, 10:57 PM)BoringOne Wrote: Well, the key of the topic was to answer the question will a person regret creating tulpa as decades pass, but I think I got the whole picture.
Then followed the discussion of the tulpa effect on afterlife and life, so I think the core of this thread is followed and it is actually interesting.

Going back to enlightment, the points you stated actually make sense to me. Nitzsche, for example has reached the enlightment, even though it is worth pointing out that he died of AIDS. The point that doesn't make sense to me is the refusal from the material things. I mean, I understand the idea that in order to fully realize your existance you need to cope happiness from ourselves. In a way finding happy boxes in our souls and opening them, though it is a nature of a person to be dependent on materialistic things. Otherwise we would be extinct long ago, because as in raw strengths we are weaker than many. I think coming up with all of those spirituality ideas was done too late, because humans exceeded every animal long ago, so there is no one left to fight, but ourselves.

Also I don't believe that anyone can become a better person, it is too subjective. It doesn't matter what image person builds, in the end with more knowledge any person eventually becomes worse and worse.
There is an easy answer to some of those.

The main thing there is cutting all attachments is seen as necessary to leave the physical world. Which is the end goal in some formulations of enlightenment. Otherwise, they will literally bind you to the material plane. If you have other beliefs for what enlightenment means, then maybe this is not necessary.

Happiness itself is also an illusion (it's just pain in another one of its guises), so, although euphoria is a side effect of meditation and stuff like that, it is a surface level understanding of what the meditator is trying to accomplish from a spiritual perspective. And a deeper analysis is required to see what they are trying for.

Pretty sure this is in fact popular conception of meditation, and how it is used by the majority of people out there. Reaping the side effects of a spiritual technique without understanding the original intent. Without understanding the spiritual part.

Your belief there will depend of course on whether morality exists or not. If harm can be done, it should be prevented. if there is no should or shouldn't then harm is an illusion. And there is no such thing as a wrong act. Under such circumstance, being better or worse is indeed purely subjective.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2017, 11:24 PM by tulpa001.)
08-10-2017, 11:23 PM
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BoringOne Offline
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#25
 
RE: Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
(08-10-2017, 11:07 PM)Lucilyn Wrote: lieswrongfakefalse! That's a terrible belief! There's far too many good people in the world to say that. Just because it's not how you think doesn't mean it can't be the case, and people think a LOT of different ways than other people. It's a huge world! 7,500,000,000 people! I think Lumi has become a much better person over the years especially 'cus he's learned more. And there's no way I'm going to become a worse person as I get more experience in life. You're asking for others' opinions, but I think you want to believe what you already believe no matter what they say..

(You ARE listening to their answers I mean, I just think you don't actually want to have your mind changed deep down)

Do you really think you can consider anyone as being good, when the only thing holding them from ripping your throat are laws and moral codex?

It doesn't matter how many children you saved in Africa, if you knew you would be able to do anything without prosecution, I fear for the weak ones. There is no feeling in the world more satisfactory than the feeling of dominance over another, no difference what we tell ourselves.


(08-10-2017, 11:23 PM)tulpa001 Wrote: There is an easy answer to some of those.

The main thing there is cutting all attachments is seen as necessary to leave the physical world. Which is the end goal in some formulations of enlightenment. Otherwise, they will literally bind you to the material plane. If you have other beliefs for what enlightenment means, then maybe this is not necessary.

Happiness itself is also an illusion (it's just pain in another one of its guises), so, although euphoria is a side effect of meditation and stuff like that, it is a surface level understanding of what the meditator is trying to accomplish from a spiritual perspective. And a deeper analysis is required to see what they are trying for.

Pretty sure this is in fact popular conception of meditation, and how it is used by the majority of people out there. Reaping the side effects of a spiritual technique without understanding the original intent. Without understanding the spiritual part.

Your belief there will depend of course on whether morality exists or not. If harm can be done, it should be prevented. if there is no should or shouldn't then harm is an illusion. And there is no such thing as a wrong act. Under such circumstance, being better or worse is indeed purely subjective.

Thanks, I will spend time thinking about it.

Regret doesn't change me
08-11-2017, 12:28 AM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#26
 
RE: Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
(08-11-2017, 12:28 AM)BoringOne Wrote: Do you really think you can consider anyone as being good, when the only thing holding them from ripping your throat are laws and moral codex?

yes, for example me, and tons of other super nice people I know that are good by nature. Also I get along with tons of animals, so if you think they're "inherently bloodthirsty" then your perspective is super screwed up because that's like saying "All things float away from the ground by default. You think without gravity they wouldn't?" The way of the world is the way things are, no hypotheticals!

(08-11-2017, 12:28 AM)BoringOne Wrote: It doesn't matter how many children you saved in Africa, if you knew you would be able to do anything without prosecution, I fear for the weak ones. There is no feeling in the world more satisfactory than the feeling of dominance over another, no difference what we tell ourselves.

Super wrong! If anyone could do anything without prosecution, I would protect the weak ones from the mean ones. And that's just your opinion! I PERSONALLY know tons of people whose greatest joy is helping others, including myself. And everyone in my system hates PvP games and we only play games that aren't direct competitions, because we prefer when EVERYONE is having fun.

I have a friend who loves PvP games and enjoys being better than people, but even then he only expresses that appropriately in video games (and he generally is better than them, too..). Games like Overwatch and Player Unknown's Battlegrounds, which we've tried playing with him but I just can't have fun when - well, take it from Scatman John!

"Everybody's born to compete as he chooses, but how can someone win if winning means that someone loses?"
Edit: Wait, you're gonna think we're just bad at games and don't like losing right? We've got 2700 hours in Team Fortress 2 and can topscore practically every game if we try. Lumi's been gaming his whole life (or since he was 4 anyways). We're plenty good at games, even PvP ones! It's just less fun when we think about the people we're beating and how they aren't having fun.

I really don't mean to, you know, sound stereotypical when I say "You're projecting your own feelings on the rest of the world", but you are. I also don't mean to make the thread off topic. But man, humans didn't create this amazing world of humanity with the countless amazing songs and games and art and friendships and stories through inherent malicious intent. Humanity has tons of ups and downs but we are not all bad by default. And the hypotheticals you can give for us being "bloodthirsty by instinct" will all require a complete destruction and removal of any and all forms of society that we created to rise above those instincts. Happiness arises in living things naturally when resources are plentiful and well-being is secure, they become less competitive and more likely to help other organisms that would otherwise have been "rivals". That's the world we live in. Tons of people still compete as if they need these things - money and pride - but they really don't need them. Thinking power is the way of the world is what makes it seem like that's how the world works. I see a world of people doing the best they can to do what they can, everyone looking for happiness in their own ways. And you see a bunch of starving wolves held back by rules. Are you really gonna say that you're just right and I'm wrong?

Lumi has spent half his life learning about how your beliefs change the world around you, from himself and from others, so we're kind of experts on this stuff. Just don't know how to convey it super well.. but I tried. Your whole world can turn upside-down if you manage to think about it differently. People go from having no faith in the world and believing human nature will ruin us, to loving life in all its forms and hoping to help everyone make the best of theirs. THAT'S MY HOST! Forreal! Before he made me years later, Reisen helped him change how he sees the world with her "illogical optimism". But even though he "knew" logically his views were correct and hers should be wishful thinking, he loved her and decided to put her above his logic. Now years later our mindset is conducive to understanding practically all of them where Lumi once understood no one (thinking everyone is fooling themselves is the #1 sign your "logical" views are super pessimistic!)



Anyways yeah we plan to live together forever in this nice world with this nice life we've been given the opportunity to share together Smile

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 08-11-2017, 01:16 AM by Lucilyn.)
08-11-2017, 01:04 AM
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Ido Offline
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#27
 
RE: Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
This thread has gone full offtopic but whatever.
BoringOne Wrote:Nitzsche, for example has reached the enlightment, even though it is worth pointing out that he died of AIDS.
wtf am I reading?
You talking about Friedrich Nietzsche?

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08-11-2017, 10:34 PM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#28
 
RE: Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
Uh, Nietzsche was a depressed pessimistic mess <_>? You have a STRANGE definition of enlightenment...

anyways I kinda feel like the original scope of the topic got answered so it's just moved on to the pessimism that would keep the OP from making tulpas for fear of their future. But idk, classic rule of tuppermancy, if you're afraid to make a tulpa then don't. No one's making you and if you don't think it'd be a good idea for you then you have no obligation to do so y'know? The happiest tulpas are the ones with hosts who love them..

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
08-11-2017, 10:38 PM
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Ido Offline
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#29
 
RE: Tulpas in Adult World / Serious Longread
Nietzsche died in 1900 at least half a century before HIV / AIDS made it to Europe. He may have had Syphilis which is what you probably meant but he died from a series of strokes after suffering from mental illness for years.
Definitely would not call enlightened.

Still Lucilyn already gave the most important point. Classic rule best rule.

Super Girls don't cry
08-11-2017, 11:11 PM
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