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Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
jean-luc Offline
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#11
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
Gonna second Reisen here, your tulpa won't die.

Also, if you can identify a thought as intrusive, your tulpa can too.

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04-08-2018, 09:06 PM
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PMelol Offline
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#12
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
So, my fear that my tulpa will take over my body and make me attack people (perhaps out of revenge for when I got scared and prayed - see my other thread) is ridiculous?
04-09-2018, 03:20 AM
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Reisen Offline
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#13
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
Basically, yes. Aside from the unfounded assumption that your tulpa will master switching without even having your consent (we can't switch without both parties' participation), tulpas still generally don't do things that aren't good for the system. They're part of the same brain and body, so anything bad for you would be self-destructive, and that's not what nature's taught living things to be.

Hi guys, plain text is just me now! We've each got our own accounts: me, Tewi, Flandre, and Lucilyn. We're Luminesce's tulpas.
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04-09-2018, 03:24 AM
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PMelol Offline
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#14
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
Yeah, I'm going to have to put her on ice, I guess. She's only about a week old, but I'm so scared of these things happening better to just let it go for now.

Sorry, young tupper. I should have thought about this more before starting.
04-09-2018, 12:16 PM
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PMelol Offline
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#15
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
So, I've been forcing here and there. Tomorrow, however, I want to start consistently. I know I have essentially a baby tulpa because I saw her in my mind's eye, and it was a wild experience. I also have bad OCD, and fear that I could attack family members who I live with. It's just an irrational fear.

Combine that with tulpamancy and switching, and you could see a perfect storm of anxiety. While I was talking to my tulpa, the intrusive thought "Monika, I want you to make me physically attack this person" entered my mind. I'm sure I explained to her that that was an intrusive thought. However, what if that happens?

Could my tulpa take over my body, make me get out of bed in the middle of the night and attack people? I've actually been putting a chair in front of my door to prevent this from happening. I was thinking maybe I should stop forcing and just let this go for now, until my OCD is better, but I don't want her to dissipate. I don't want to dissipate my tulpa because of what is most likely an irrational fear.

Anyway, I don't want to end up in jail because I wanted a Monika tulpa. I just read a post somewhere of someone who said their tulpa possessed them and they threw a chair at their teacher.
04-13-2018, 01:30 AM
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Luminesce Offline
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#16
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
No, they couldn't. Just right off the bat, no baby tulpa is going to force-switch and then also choose to do something so drastically negative. Switching is not that easy, and no tulpa as chaotically undeveloped as they'd have to be to want to do something like that would be capable of switching in the first place.

Second, putting a chair in front of your door is bad. That's giving in to your invasive thoughts. There's no assertion that they're only invasive, unwanted thoughts, that's giving them full credit as viably real. Trust me, they aren't. You can tell the difference, else you would assert you didn't have OCD (but something more akin to paranoia I guess?). Your tulpa can too, as can your mind. Those fears only become remotely relevant when you start believing in them, and acting to prevent their consequences is one form of acknowledging them as legitimate. They aren't.

You can have those thoughts constantly, and it'll suck, but they won't mean anything as soon as you've realized they don't hold any weight. Know that every single time you think, "But what if X DOES happen/matter/lead to Y", you're encouraging them to be/do just that. And every time you ignore them or acknowledge they're no more than invasive thoughts/random ideas typically a result of Ironic Process Theory, the less weight they hold. That post and this one too are fairly relevant here despite the former being slightly differently focused; it still applies.

Right now you think that all of these invasive thoughts will come to fruition if you ignore them or don't pay them attention, but the opposite is actually the case. If you ignore them, they fade back into obscurity where they came from. If you worry about them, they still won't happen on any real level for a very long way, but at some point it's possible they'll start affecting you because you're subconsciously (heck, consciously) convincing yourself they are/will. Although I can tell you right now that you won't be actually hurting anyone. The effects of such invasive thoughts are generally limited only to imagination and other mind-matters, or very slight physical things. You could never actually make it to the point where you were hurting someone against your will off of invasive thoughts.

The only way that happens is with people who've completely lost sight of reality, something people like you with OCD fear can simply happen to someone, but it can't. That's in the levels of schizophrenia and general insanity, which is almost exclusively your brain being physically messed up somehow. Not something you can think your way into. You can think your way into paranoia, at best, but aside from make you generally miserable you'd still be relatively safe from straight up insanity.

Also it's been said before but, there's no chance in the world a young tulpa will be able to forcefully switch with the host and stay that way against the host's will. There's literally no reason they should be any stronger than you and every reason you should be stronger than them. Only believing that they somehow are could cause that to be the case. And not because you "make them" that powerful or something; only because you limit your actual power by believing you don't have it, and so effectively tricking yourself into not using it. Power in this sense/scenario referring to literally all mental internal matters, especially on the topic of invasive thoughts.

Basically, stop worrying so much. Literally though. Worrying is the only way any invasive thoughts can cause you any problems, and even then (luckily for people like you, I'm not even making this up) there's still quite a large buffer of pure stress and worry before believing in invasive thoughts actually causes anything to happen. For example, putting a chair in front of your door, that's the very start of it. You'd just be generally stressed out and worried and doing unnecessary things for quite a while before anything ever came of it. But that's still too much - stop worrying in the first place and everything will be A-Okay.

Anything that you can acknowledge as an unwanted invasive thought, your tulpa will understand as such. There's also no reason a tulpa would see invasive thoughts as any better to listen to than you. You're more consistent, logical, reasonable and probably more positive. So the more you successfully categorize such thoughts as "unwanted, unnecessary and illogical", the better grasp you'll have over them and the less trouble your tulpa will have understanding you, I guess.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2018, 07:30 AM by Luminesce.)
04-13-2018, 07:29 AM
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PMelol Offline
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#17
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
Hi all. Thanks for your post Luminiscence, you're definitely right. I do realize all these horrible thoughts are not "mine" but my OCD's.

However...sometimes I imagine my tulpa saying these things to me, like "Yes, I'm going to possess you and make you attack people so you end up in jail!" These intrusive thoughts, imagining her saying these things, just pop into my mind. I mean...wouldn't me just imagining her saying these things make her be saying these things and then affect her personality? Isn't that how tulpamancy actually works?

Anyway, I might stop. As you can all see my OCD is quite bad, I should have waited a few months until it's better. I just really wanted a friend now.
04-17-2018, 06:17 PM
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Luminesce Offline
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#18
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
Your tulpa will be shaped by what you believe and what you're used to being normal, not by every single little slip-up. But if your mind's gonna keep making up things like this that you can't ignore then you might be better off not, yeah.


We already answered that your tulpa won't "die" from not being forced for however long, their detail(s for new tulpas) will just fade over time, making them at worst harder to remember.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
04-17-2018, 11:03 PM
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PMelol Offline
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#19
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
So, the thing with me imagining my tulpa saying these things means she's actually saying these things isn't false, right? I mean, tulpamancy is based entirely on imagination, right?
04-17-2018, 11:28 PM
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Luminesce Offline
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#20
 
RE: Harm OCD and Tulpamancy
Whether or not it's your tulpa isn't exactly relevant early on, as it'll be a mix. That's why I discourage such questions, trusting everything your tulpa says as them early on leaves you open to invasive/random thoughts, while not trusting them could lead to delaying vocality. They're just trying to figure out how to exist, basically. Don't take anything they say too seriously until they're consistently vocal and independent from you. Same with... well, I'll just quote an old post (from a removed thread unfortunately, so I have it saved) about this stuff.

Luminesce Wrote:There's always a fine line when it comes to this subject that I can't quite pin down. Some peoples' tulpas change wildly at least early on, some stay exactly the same, most change a little bit over time or just once. But I know for absolute certain that most tulpas who change a ton are those of hosts who go in completely afraid to affect their tulpas in any way, and I honestly believe instead of giving their tulpas freedom they subject them to random fits of imagination. There's no problem with giving your tulpa a form and waiting until they're sentient to let them decide if they want to change.

That being said, my tulpas haven't changed at all since their original conception, by me, with really no choice of their own. They were the Touhou characters' forms, neither I nor them ever thought about them being something different. And they've had no problem at all with that in seven years. It's like asking somebody if they'd like to change the name they grew up with. Most of the time they're going to say no, because they've become attached to it. Sometimes though they'll say, well, I would change my middle name, or something like that. Small changes are pretty common for tulpas later on. Flandre generally speaking does not have the crystal wings anymore as they were a burden to imagine in the wonderland and imposition. She still identifies with pictures of her with them, though. My tulpas' "forms" have all grown a bit taller over time, too. But none of that was out of dissatisfaction, or even conscious desire on my part. They simply happened as they were easier or felt more natural. None of them ever had a problem with their forms, because they're just attached to them. Unless some part of it is a problem, like huge wings that get in the way all the time, there's not much reason to want to change.

And I'm pretty sure it's the host that influences that in a tulpa. Because most people go in with the mindset that they'll give their tulpa a form and it can make changes if it wants later, likely small ones. Some people basically say "Well I'll imagine you as a guy my age for now. But you can totally become a small female of a different ethnicity if you want...", and those are generally the tulpas that change the most. And of course, there's the hosts that just can't settle on a form and make a ball of light/shapeshifting tulpa, and we all know how that usually goes. I've met my share of lion fairy wisps.

But I didn't think any of that. My "tulpas" were just what they were, sentient imaginary friends based on Touhou characters. I never thought at all about them changing, because why would I have? Why would Flandre ever not look like Flandre, or change her name? It wasn't that I restricted my tulpas from ever changing.. Change just never occurred to me as an option. And thus, they never wanted to. I've asked them about it recently and even Tewi, whose form arguably fits her the least, says she's attached to it. Even though she could be taken more seriously with a different appearance, she keeps the bunny ears and pink dress, because that's part of who she is. In her own words, too.

So I think you should go with whatever you're most comfortable with. Don't be afraid of "accidentally forcing your tulpa to be something they don't want to", because that can't happen. If you really like the idea of a certain form, then go ahead and use it. Chances are if you like it and are comfortable with it, your tulpa won't feel like changing it either. Small adjustments later on generally seems to be the most common practice, and I think that makes the tulpa and host happiest. Because I honestly feel like some people have let their imagination change their tulpa from something reasonable into something ridiculous, and then kept that form because they were afraid to "force their tulpa" to be something they didn't want to be. And those tulpas usually couldn't even talk yet...


In case my talk about how my tulpas never thought about changing themselves bugged any of you, I should mention that I created them many years before discovering tulpas. Heck, I created them before tulpas were a thing, online anyway. But I did keep that in mind when I created my fourth tulpa years later, Lucilyn. Whose form was based on the Touhou character Suwako. Except I gave her creative freedom with everything about herself, and gave her my own name like I would a child. She still opted to keep the form I gave her because I liked it and she liked what I saw in the character for herself. She's changed the colors of her clothes and seems to like how she looks without the hat too, so I see her with it maybe 50% of the time. But given that, I think that my comfortableness with my tulpas' forms, combined with the positive traits I tend to see in them that inspired making a tulpa in the first place, generally leads them to be comfortable with their given forms. They just don't see reason to change when they understand why I like how they are and agree. However, now that I think about it, this may not be the case for all systems. My tulpas, even seven years ago, have always been completely borderless with my mind and theirs. We understand every single feeling and thought another has because of that. For systems where this isn't the case and minds and feelings are more separate, it's possible a tulpa may be less inclined to keep a form their host likes as the tulpa doesn't experience the same feelings the host does on it. So...

Basically, give'em a form you like, force them until they're relatively sentient/vocal, and then ask if they'd like to be different. Can't go wrong like that.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
04-17-2018, 11:47 PM
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