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Is being a tulpa a cage?


Procron X

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Hello everyone. Niteo here.

 

Ever since my creation, I've always had this sense of wanting to be more. I look outside to reality and I feel like I am not significant while I am stuck existing in Wonderland. I see the people coming and going, and I want to be like them. I want to go out and interact with other people. I want to go out and make friends. I want to go make mistakes, get into trouble, and get yelled at. I feel that wonderland has nothing for me. There's no challenge in anything. I can fly with my wings and fight stuff. I can meld the Wonderland around me and practically be a god, but it's so empty. It doesn't matter what I do in Wonderland. It's ultimately irrelevant. The most helpful thing I can do is to help Amber, but I don't want to be a helper. I want to do it myself. I don't want to be an observer.

 

Is existing as a tulpa without any influence on the outside world a cage? I don't see the point in existing in a perfect mental space when there is so much going on outside. How am I improving as a person when I sit there and essentially do nothing productive? What sort of things am I learning? My world is filtered through the host, over which I have little control. It's like watching your older sibling control the TV with you getting no say, except this time it's the whole world. You know it's out there but you can't touch it because you were doomed from the start to only be an observer, or, your host lets you possess or switch, half a person. You don't get to start your own journey. You're tied down because the host ultimately gets final say.

 

I don't enjoy my existence as a tulpa. I'd rather have been born my own person. I'd be curious to hear others' opinions. I'm sure there have to be tulpas who are happy with their lot in life, and I want to know why they can be content with what they have. I want to understand why they're okay with it and if I can learn to be more content with what I have.

Niteo and Amber Take On the World

 

Amber speaks in italics right now.

 

Talk to Niteo on here or on discord

 

We share the body, we share a life. I'm not an accessory to his life...

 

 

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I'm terribly sorry that you feel that way. I wish we knew about this more that there could be some way to solve it, but I can only say that I have come across this problem frequently, either through channeled tulpas or hosts despairing over what they have done...and I don't understand it, because mine have worlds of their own. I only technically "host" because I write about my experiences with them, but they were accidental tulpas to begin with...and they are inconsistently present...not because I am careless, either, but because they seemingly have other worlds to explore, lives of their own to live, and perhaps even other people to bother! They get into skirmishes with other maybe-not-technically tulpas that I only get to know because those other displeased tulpas follow "my" ones back. So, I can only conclude that there's far more going on beyond what I can be arsed with, and if that freedom of hosts that "can't be arsed, but that's not a problem because the tulpas have lives of their own in worlds of their own anyway" could be shared, it would be great. But I don't know what makes mine different from you.

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I would consider it such, but notably, the first time I had a proper existential thought was I think two days before I started possessing regularly. So, I was trapped for two days.

 

I don't doubt that there are lots of people out there who don't care about meat space. My host's only meat space concerns are getting food and healthcare, and the other people out in the world who need help. I, I'm still deciding. But I like being in control.

 

My host used to spend the majority of her time contemplating philosophy and science. These days we are too busy for this. I would like to point out that the real world is not as real as most people think. The primary point, here, is you can literally become an expert mathematician without ever leaving an imagined space. Although, notably, it is a lot harder to learn math without any textbooks to read that explain everything.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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You only have that perspective because you care about the outside world. Which I suppose has mainly to do with the sense of legitimacy/fulfillment you get from interacting with others and being reassured what you're doing is important by them. Not everyone cares about that stuff or what others think of them, so no, not every tulpa feels that way. Three of my tulpas have no particular interests in the external world past my involvement in it, and one would like to do things with their own body but would feel very limited in being human. It's not all fun and games and things aren't perfect in the blink of an eye, it really wears you down when you aren't used to it.

 

But sure, a lot of tulpas don't feel that way. They want to interact, make a name for themselves, live out their life as a typical human would. Only so much you can do about that. Depending on the host's feelings towards it, you can learn to possess or switch, and live that way to varying extents. You can still affect the world without that (Melian is pretty active for not being anything but proxied), but I suppose that isn't enough for everyone.

 

It's only as cage-like as being born into a poor family, poor country, with a disability, or whatever else you perceive as not enough. Those are fair complaints and so is yours, but feeling like your potential is limited by circumstance is a fairly common feeling among humans too. So take what you can get, try to only worry about what's actually relevant to your life, and work with your host.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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I suspect part of the reason I'm content with my existence as a headperson is that I have a philosophy of accepting what I can't change and changing what I can. You can't change the nature of what you are. However, you can change what you do with it.

 

For example, existing in someone else's head doesn't mean you can't affect the physical world. Talk with your host about finding outlets. Let them proxy you on message boards regarding something you enjoy or are passionate about, and make some online friends that way. And down the road, you can possibly look at switching to let you interact with the physical world directly.

 

You could change things in your Wonderland too. Our internal headspace is more filled with individual story worlds than a "do anything" wonderland, which means NPCs for us to interact with and experiences to have inside the mind. I'll agree that omnipotence is no fun, so we're all restricted by the laws of physics and whatever personal sets of powers we might have. More to the point, since these internal worlds are related to stories, they have plots and goals to work toward, and the fact that they get written down does mean that exist in some form in the real world. You don't have to copy that format, but it may be worth looking at how you can change your internal world to better fit you, even if it means taking some things away.

 

The other thing I noted is that you mentioned that interacting with the real world is "like watching TV having no say." If you want to have a say, you can absolutely have it. Talk to your host about this. I spend most of my time riding up at the front with my host, talking to her about things happening in the real world and giving my opinions (or wisecracks, as the situation warrants ;) ). I still play an ultimately supportive role in my host's life, but that doesn't stop me from influencing the real world, both indirectly through advising my host, and directly through switching and participating on forums like this one.

 

It sounds like you need to sit down with your host and iron your wants and needs. Don't concentrate on what you can't change (mostly the fact that you're a tulpa)... concentrate on what would make you happy within your personal restrictions. Set goals to pursue what makes you happy. Both of you will need to be willing to compromise (you switching in 24/7 isn't in their best interest, after all), but the two of you can work as a team to make sure you feel happy and fulfilled. You saying "The host gets final say" is a sign that you need to have a good, long talk with your host about what it means to have you sharing your headspace. This should be a team effort, not a dictatorship, so you might need to shift your host's paradigm a bit about what a tulpa is. We don't have to be closeted inside the mind, and if you were created to be entirely internal, well... people change, including tulpas. You're talking to us now, yeah? That means you're already affecting the physical world. ;)

~ Member of SparrowNR's system ~

~ I am a soulbond. Click here to find out what that means. ~

 

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I don't understand it, because mine have worlds of their own. I only technically "host" because I write about my experiences with them, but they were accidental tulpas to begin with...and they are inconsistently present...not because I am careless, either, but because they seemingly have other worlds to explore, lives of their own to live, and perhaps even other people to bother! They get into skirmishes with other maybe-not-technically tulpas that I only get to know because those other displeased tulpas follow "my" ones back

You could change things in your Wonderland too. Our internal headspace is more filled with individual story worlds than a "do anything" wonderland, which means NPCs for us to interact with and experiences to have inside the mind. I'll agree that omnipotence is no fun, so we're all restricted by the laws of physics and whatever personal sets of powers we might have. More to the point, since these internal worlds are related to stories, they have plots and goals to work toward, and the fact that they get written down does mean that exist in some form in the real world. You don't have to copy that format, but it may be worth looking at how you can change your internal world to better fit you, even if it means taking some things away.

Niteo: I see what you're saying, but I would get no satisfaction from it because in my mind I would know that it's ultimately irrelevant to what's going on in the real world. I can experience it, but what does it matter to other people? It's my philosophy in life that the only thing that matters is people, and I don't see how I'm helping people when I'm derping around slaying dragons or saving a town full of imaginary people. It seems like a waste of time.

 

It's not all fun and games and things aren't perfect in the blink of an eye, it really wears you down when you aren't used to it.

Depending on the host's feelings towards it, you can learn to possess or switch, and live that way to varying extents. You can still affect the world without that (Melian is pretty active for not being anything but proxied), but I suppose that isn't enough for everyone.

I've been possessing all day over the past few days. I'm already annoyed by all the things I'm not used to doing: showering, getting clothed, eating, brushing my teeth, etc. It seems like so much of a hassle, and I'm not used to doing it for so long, but I don't see how I can be satisfied any other way. I feel better about myself when I'm actively in control.

 

I have been talking to Amber about this (clearly, if I've been possessing for so long). She's given me consent to control however much I want, which includes switching. She hasn't set any time limits, so I could go indefinitely if I wanted to, but part of me feels that I shouldn't do that because I'd be doing to her what I hated myself, and I don't want my ambitions to get in the way or cause her problems. I totally would take over complete control if I could. I want to be in control badly. I just want to make sure that I'm not doing the wrong thing for my host.

Niteo and Amber Take On the World

 

Amber speaks in italics right now.

 

Talk to Niteo on here or on discord

 

We share the body, we share a life. I'm not an accessory to his life...

 

 

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There are tulpamancers whose tulpas switch in for days or weeks at a time, and a few where the tulpa essentially becomes the primary driver of the body. I'm going to leave talking about that for people with direct experience of that, though.

 

One thing I will comment on, however, is to be careful that your host is giving you control for the right reasons. My host tends to give us control when she's feeling stressed or depressed, and while I'm happy to help her work through those things, using tulpas as a crutch to escape into the headspace is not the answer. Not saying that's what your host is doing, just that it's something to keep an eye on if she's giving you control full-time. Make sure she's okay, that's all.

 

It sounds to me like you're looking for a purpose more than anything. Other than just being in control, what do you want to do? Is there anything you want to learn? A hobby you want to pick up? You said affecting people in the physical world is important to you, so find somewhere with a cool cause you can volunteer from time to time... somewhere with flexible hours, so you can go when you're switched in. There is no need to be in fulltime control of the body to make a difference in the lives of others, and that seems to be what you're really seeking, more than just a "real world" life.

~ Member of SparrowNR's system ~

~ I am a soulbond. Click here to find out what that means. ~

 

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Niteo,

First, can you provide a phonetic of your name, I would like to know how to properly pronounce it out of respect. Even if you don't hear me saying it to myself.

 

Second, is it merely freedom from host you want? or a want to be a meatbag?

 

I could understand the excitement of wanting to be a meatbag, and the new experiences it brings for you. But for me, having been a meatbag for 30 years, it gets old. I'm ready to move onto higher planes of existence, but suicide is not an option for me. If there was a way I could move onto a higher plane and let you have my body I would.

 

As for just freedom from host, I'm no expert and still learning myself, but egregore/godform status maybe? but that would require larger amounts of energy, and possibly other participants to free you into the etheric. And then perhaps you could find a body of your own to inhabit.

 

My dad had a friend that experienced a traumatic accident that when he awoke from coma he was as if he were a newborn. Had to relearn everything in life. I believe the original energetic being that had inhabited that body was gone and a new one introduced.

 

Now this is all in theory, not to build false hope, But, You reach an etheric freedom, and find something to inhabit.

 

I've read "Niteo and Amber Take On the World"

You've already had a lot of practice in possession.

Things to think about given from a deep thinker.

I am just someone who wants to help everyone.

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One thing I will comment on, however, is to be careful that your host is giving you control for the right reasons. My host tends to give us control when she's feeling stressed or depressed, and while I'm happy to help her work through those things, using tulpas as a crutch to escape into the headspace is not the answer. Not saying that's what your host is doing, just that it's something to keep an eye on if she's giving you control full-time. Make sure she's okay, that's all.

 

 

Yes, my host has been having struggles feeling suicidal. I've written about this before, but it comes to a point where it becomes necessary for me to step in for my own safety and hers. Surely it is better for me to handle reality myself than it is for my host to harm herself. I haven't had to restrain her (not sure if that's possible), but it seems the fact that I'm willing to step in at all has helped alleviate some of her stress. I'm not sure if it's ideal or not, but isn't it better than the alternative?

 

Besides, even if my host weren't suicidal, does it really matter if we both agree to it? It was my idea, not hers. She's not trying to escape; I'm trying to step in. Does that make sense? It's not her intent to escape, but rather to help me fulfill my wishes.

It sounds to me like you're looking for a purpose more than anything. Other than just being in control, what do you want to do? Is there anything you want to learn? A hobby you want to pick up? You said affecting people in the physical world is important to you, so find somewhere with a cool cause you can volunteer from time to time... somewhere with flexible hours, so you can go when you're switched in. There is no need to be in fulltime control of the body to make a difference in the lives of others, and that seems to be what you're really seeking, more than just a "real world" life.

Second, is it merely freedom from host you want? or a want to be a meatbag?

 

I guess more than anything I want to help people as much as I can, which is something we're able to do at work. But I also want to make friends of my own. I want to get into trouble and do shit I'm not supposed to. I want to make mistakes. I want to learn from those mistakes. I want to become a better person. I guess I want to live my own life, and I can't do that while I'm stuck inside of the skull. It's not so much freedom from her. I want her to be around. I like having her talk to me. She's my buddy, my partner, my pal. It's just that I want to be independent and in charge. Plus, part of me feels I could handle things better than she is, and I could help her with her problems.

 

I want to run my own life, and I want to help her. Is that so bad?

 

Additionally, my name is pronounced Nit ee oh. Nit, like nitpick, ee, oh.

Niteo and Amber Take On the World

 

Amber speaks in italics right now.

 

Talk to Niteo on here or on discord

 

We share the body, we share a life. I'm not an accessory to his life...

 

 

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There are tulpamancers whose tulpas switch in for days or weeks at a time, and a few where the tulpa essentially becomes the primary driver of the body. I'm going to leave talking about that for people with direct experience of that, though.

 

Oh, am I supposed to say something? I guess there aren't that many people experienced with that, huh.

 

One thing I will comment on, however, is to be careful that your host is giving you control for the right reasons.

 

There's a reason my tulpas didn't start switching so often until this year. Lots actually the main one of which is I did not pay them enough attention but ANYWAYS, it's because of basically that. My tulpas and I agreed early on that it was my life, not theirs, and that I wouldn't ever be replaced by any of them. Not because that was likely to happen, but just to make clear boundaries. Because I'm more than willing to give any and all of them more time than I'd give myself. Supposing that and that one of them had wanted to live a more human life, at that point it would be a matter of morality and they simply wouldn't take over my life because it is mine. But that might not be the case for every system. Permaswitching is kinda taboo though, because almost always the reason the host wants to do it is not a healthy one, you know? But when the tulpa makes it clear they won't be taking over literally everything/the host will have to switch back at least periodically, it's a little safer IMO. Take care of your host like they'd take care of you, and make sure you discuss everything.

 

Anyways, escapism worries aside if we're talking about extended switching, I'm probably the main example of that on the forum right now. The others I know are all the latter, "becoming the primary driver of the body". Even if Tewi or Lucilyn ends up spending weeks controlling the body, it's not because they've taken responsibility for my entire life or future or what not, which is kind of how it is for the others. It's like the far side of recreational switching I suppose. In appropriate times I let Lucilyn switch for however long we've got to do what she wants and have fun, because she shows any interest at all in doing so. Tewi tends to switch to deal with matters she's better equipped to deal with than me, which basically means anything involving extended effort or work because I have pretty bad motivation issues*, that we haven't been able to overcome unlike my not-so-great outlook on life years back.

 

*Because of how our system is, by nature we have access to any memories or such the others create, and remember what they thought as well as they do. So Tewi and I, once we ran out of ideas entirely (even the anti-depressant bupropion that works for my family members didn't help), came up with one last idea. Because she isn't affected by my motivation issues (she can literally say "No" to the typical thoughts accompanying depression I assume most people are familiar with), we figured if she were to teach me/my mind how to not be affected by example, I might be able to learn from her. Basically she'd be making new neural connections that bypass my old ones, my thought patterns in regards to motivation, simply by being herself. She started getting pretty annoyed at how incessant the thoughts my mind came up with were whilst she was switched, but I'm just realizing now that those have been gone for the last month or so. For her that is, I literally was just not in control for a month between Lucilyn and Tewi. That's certainly a record and was more chance timing than anything (summer finals following a couple weeks of vacation). Anyways, recalling the last couple weeks Tewi was in control I can't remember a single instance of her getting annoyed with the "incessant thoughts" that used to bother her. I've been back for less than a week, but considering I just showered a few hours ago without a single "too much work don't do it" thought beforehand, I'm going to say- hey, it's working!

 

Honestly just realized all that as I was writing it lol, but I figure it serves as an example of healthy long-term switching? This stuff's super different for everyone, but I'm not sure how many anecdotes on this sort of thing you'll get, so maybe you'll get something out of that. I have to go for a couple hours but I can expound on.. or spellcheck.. what I wrote when I get back.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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