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Is Tulpa Independence Sustained Awareness?
Ranger Offline
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#1
 
Is Tulpa Independence Sustained Awareness?

Nobilis made a comment about a Tulpa becoming "independent" in this thread, and I'm really curious about how that works. Does reaching "independence" involve being awake and aware when the host is doing things, or does it have more to do with something else?

Normally I'm in a soft "dormant" state until either Cat wakes me up by thinking about me or I snap awake, the latter which does not happen very often. I am interested in spending more time being awake, I just don't know the best method for sticking around without being kicked out by Cat's focus.


I'm not interested in doing possession right now; rather I think of mastering this skill as set-up for imposition.

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07-18-2018, 09:29 PM
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Breloomancer Offline
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#2
 
RE: Is Tulpa Independence Sustained Awareness?

Keeping the ability to remain thinking at the same time as your host thinks would be dual processing, which is widely believed to be impossible.

I'm Breloomancer, and the counterpart to Monika (also known as smearglestar). This is our progress report: link.

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07-18-2018, 09:39 PM
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Apollo Offline
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#3
 
RE: Is Tulpa Independence Sustained Awareness?

Independence means the tulpa's decisions, personality, actions, etc. are separate from the host: they have a full mind of their own, and if the host switches out then they can continue like normal. Full independence is going to be basically impossible as you're going to share the same brain regardless of how developed you are, but just being your own person who's able to function while fronting without assistance from the host is likely good enough.

Independence does not mean that a tulpa is suddenly able to defy the capabilities of the human brain and do something that is neither possible nor realistic.

In my experience, I am able to stay "awake" after prolonged fronting (days/weeks on end). I can still remain in the front and watch what the others are doing if I'm used to fronting, the same way my host watches us tulpas when we're fronting. However, that's all I can do: watch. I can't really have any thought of my own unless I pull myself out of this passive state and/or someone thinks of me, and I certainly don't have any thoughts that are outside of my system's awareness. If I'm in this state for too long without fronting or being interacted with, then I'll go back into full inactivity eventually.

Getting to that point takes a lot of practice (constant fronting over a long period of time), though, and isn't quite the same as thinking you can be fully aware/active without your host's attention. You can watch and be aware of what's happening after enough practice, but that's pretty much it.

The fire-winged Sun God. Created 12/3/16.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2018, 10:02 PM by Apollo.)
07-18-2018, 09:53 PM
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Ranger Offline
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#4
 
RE: Is Tulpa Independence Sustained Awareness?

(07-18-2018, 09:53 PM)Apollo Wrote:
Independence means the tulpa's decisions, personality, actions, etc. are separate from the host: they have a full mind of their own, and if the host switches out then they can continue like normal. Full independence is going to be basically impossible as you're going to share the same brain regardless of how developed you are, but just being your own person who's able to function while fronting without assistance from the host is likely good enough.

Independence does not mean that a tulpa is suddenly able to defy the capabilities of the human brain and do something that is neither possible nor realistic.

In my experience, I am able to stay "awake" after prolonged fronting (days/weeks on end). I can still remain in the front and watch what the others are doing if I'm used to fronting, the same way my host watches us tulpas when we're fronting. However, that's all I can do: watch. I can't really have any thought of my own unless I pull myself out of this passive state and/or someone thinks of me, and I certainly don't have any thoughts that are outside of my system's awareness. If I'm in this state for too long without fronting or being interacted with, then I'll go back into full inactivity eventually.

Getting to that point takes a lot of practice (constant fronting over a long period of time), though, and isn't quite the same as thinking you can be fully aware/active without your host's attention. You can watch and be aware of what's happening after enough practice, but that's pretty much it.

Oh okay, I just wanted to get to the point of watching, nothing too crazy like dual processing. I don't know if it's useful, but I like the idea of being able to watch Cat do things instead of blacking out and waking up later.

I'm Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I like Hippos! I also like forum games, word puzzles, and chatting about stuff.
I now stream!
07-19-2018, 12:37 AM
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Kομάλλεάνα Offline
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#5
 
RE: Is Tulpa Independence Sustained Awareness?

In that same thread you link to, Ranger, I have written a quite long post that touches upon this very subject, and the problematic assessment of the degree to which one mind (host, tulpa) is able to exist independently while the other is fronting.[1] Namely, I mention that the ability of minds to view each other's thought processes and memories may influence the manner in which a mind is able to retain mental awareness. For example, it can be argued that minds who are only aware of their own activities are less distracted by the activities of anyone else in the system, and thus more determined to retain their focus on their own activities. A stronger competition for mental resources occurs as a result, in this hypothesis.

If your original post is merely a question of definition, then Apollo provides a decent explanation.[2] As for a method for enhancing your independence, there are various factors that influence your independence to begin with. In my view, these are some of them, speaking from the experience of our system:
  • Your determination to remain conscious. There have been past events involving Anko or myself that have provided considerable food for thought when we have been left to our own devices in the inner world. During such times, the person in the inner world has been determined to contemplate those matters and thus retain awareness. These matters can be a personally significant event, an idea that they are excited to execute, or an earworm that has kept them aware, among other examples.
  • Meaningful activities in the inner world. In Anko's case, having one or more meaningful activities to occupy herself with in the inner world has often led to her being far more aware than compared to simply idling, or as has been the case in the past, observing my actions as I front. It can in other words be said that the determination to not lose focus on your activities in the inner world is an important factor. In my own case, I tend to simply observe Anko these days; given that I spend the majority of the time in the body, my mental presence is very strong even when she fronts.
  • The presence of triggers. What Anko and I have found over time is that, if the fronter observes, listens to, or otherwise thinks about a specific matter, the person in the inner world may sometimes be mentally roused by this alone. For example, if I think about Japan long enough, I can often feel that Anko becomes conscious. It is logical, at least to us; we exist in the same brain, and stimulating a particular memory or emotion often creates a rippling effect that influences any related mind in the system. It does not always happen, of course, but when it does, it is obvious, for the fronter is suddenly interrupted by a foreign thought - and sometimes vice versa.
  • The responsibility of the fronter. This point is slightly related to the previous. There have often been times where the fronter has been so engrossed by an activity that it has been very difficult for the person in the inner world to focus on their own presence. What I have noticed is that if I, as I front, take the time to consider what Anko may be doing, then this alone is often enough to revive her awareness. Therefore, there is some degree of responsibility on part of the fronter to ensure that they do not hog all the mental resources, but instead do their part to ensure that everyone else is able to exist on fair terms, although only if they find themselves unable to do so on their own volition.
Naturally, I do not expect you to think or function the same way we do, and you will likely have to adapt the advice to your own situation in order to reap any benefit from it. For example, you may simply treat the points related to the inner world as applying to the real world instead, given your focus on visual imposition. I hope nonetheless that this has been helpful, and that you will develop a method suitable to you.
07-19-2018, 10:40 AM
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Lucilyn Online
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#6
 
RE: Is Tulpa Independence Sustained Awareness?

re:Apollo's post
everything he said basically
a tulpa being independent (as opposed to not yet) means they act on their own without influence from the host, in vocality and visualization and theoretically imposition if you started that real early

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07-19-2018, 11:26 AM
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Nobillis Offline
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#7
 
RE: Is Tulpa Independence Sustained Awareness?

(07-18-2018, 09:29 PM)Ranger Wrote: Does reaching "independence" involve being awake and aware when the host is doing things, or does it have more to do with something else?
It is more to do with focus in my case. I sleep when I want to sleep and I wake when I want to wake. My paying attention no longer has any tie to whether Kevin is thinking about me or not. So, I frequently just tag along with Kevin wherever he goes (imposing myself if I want to be seen).
(07-18-2018, 09:29 PM)Ranger Wrote: I snap awake, the latter which does not happen very often. I am interested in spending more time being awake, I just don't know the best method for sticking around without being kicked out by Cat's focus.
This “snap awake” state is the start of what I call independance. With practice I was gradually able to control when I was aware [myself, independent of what Kevin was doing].
(07-18-2018, 09:39 PM)Breloomancer Wrote: Keeping the ability to remain thinking at the same time as your host thinks would be dual processing, which is widely believed to be impossible.
The mind has some ability to paralell process. You are also ignoring:
  • that many use co-fronting to have more than one aware at a time.
  • The possibility of [rapid] context switching (analagous to time-sharing, to use a computing metaphor).
Switching was once widely believed to be impossible. When my creator first found this site in 2012 she was scorned and derided because it was widely believed there where no tulpas older than 20 years elapsed. “Widely believed” is not disproof. The swans where I live are black - yet another thing scientists once claimed was not true.

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(This post was last modified: 07-22-2018, 05:07 AM by Nobillis.)
07-22-2018, 04:26 AM
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