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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Few days ago night was a total mess, REM-D went off once when I was awake somehow and not when I was asleep. Next night it went off only once, I think also while I was awake. Last night I didn't get a chance (nor much on the other nights) because our dog barks at ghosts from 6:00AM to 8:30AM. I can't go back to sleep with the dog barking, nor after being kept awake for 20-30 minutes because of it. Might have to start starting around 4-5 hours of sleep instead of 6-7 again.

Also, this crap has actually significantly decreased the time I've been spending with my tulpas, and obviously kept any of them from fronting too. I'm going to start doing (for however long I feel like it, not intended as a regular thing) Reisen's visualization method to try and improve, well, our visualization. Even a slightly better mental clarity makes spending time in the wonderland multiple times more enjoyable. Maybe it helps imposition too, not sure. And I have a totally baseless assumption that it'll increase dream vividity which will help increase dream recall too. I've been really on the border with dream recall the last few days, where I can remember a dream if I remember to do so and really try, whereas when I started I couldn't remember anything at all.

I'm simultaneously tempted to "give up" ie stop trying as with most things that require effort from me (mostly because it's screwing with my sleep honestly), and motivated enough to keep trying anyways because this is my best bet at meeting my tulpas in a lucid dream still. Even if it's not working, it's got a way higher chance of working than the nothing I've been doing for seven years. But I am thinking about letting the others front and try it themselves. I've talked to Tewi about how to make it work a couple times and she helps, but I didn't want to have her front because she's not great at falling asleep. Lucilyn on the other hand has always had decent luck with dreams, so I guess we'll see.

One thing's for sure, we could have a lucid dream any day now, and we could also not have a lucid dream in the next week. So I can't tell you guys whether you should keep checking in daily or not, guess it's your preference. Not that I plan on posting daily if all I have to report is "Woke up after 6 hours, put mask on, dog started barking and didn't stop barking so I just got up and now I'm tired"

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
10-26-2017, 06:13 AM
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Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Why's it always something? Why's it always nothing? It's a good thing my mindset's got philosophical safety nets for any situation in my life, because otherwise I might be having an existential crisis right now. Something about the fact that there's nothing after the REM-Dreamer is really scary. No success I don't have with it can be the end, it's really all I've got, lest I go back to whatever I've been doing for the last seven years.

Okay, anyways. Potential yet prevented existential dread aside. Our dog barks from 6AM-9AM and randomly after that time, so I've been getting about one shot a night the last few days with the REM-Dreamer. And then getting up after like 8 hours of sleep, which is really not enough for me over an extended period of time. So I went back to sleep anyways, you know, after an hour or so of lying there, and broke my schedule on purpose. Because life never goes the way you expect it to. Too many variables and confirmation bias to point out the wrongs and none of the rights. Man, I'm not in a good place mentally right now lol. Not in a drastic way, but definitely not a productive state.

REM-Dreamer just plain isn't going off when it should. I don't know why. Sensitivity got raised one at a time until it was 9/9. It can still go off when I'm awake in the same position I sleep in. I've tried my best to raise it up on my face where it should detect movement better. The only thing I can do now is the REM-detection-test while actually lying down like I normally would to find what positions of the mask and myself it actually works in. Unfortunately it's quite loud during that, like a radioactivity detector, with no way to turn it down. So I'm waiting for a time when no one's really around I guess. Tewi keeps coming to mind when I think about that, probably because she's the one that suggested that like over a week ago, but also because it seems like something she'd be better at. Maybe I can let her try now. Only reason I didn't before was, well, two reasons. First I obviously wanted to be the first to lucid dream here, but second I figured she'd be too focused and have trouble falling asleep. By now if I can't fall asleep it's because I can't fall asleep, not because the mask is distracting anymore.

Tried to pick a good song to listen to while writing this post, something serious and related to one of my tups. Chose... Strangely?



Actually quite emotionally charged for us. Because it's Tewi who associated feelings with it, it's quite striking. Lucilyn wrote a whole dang thread because of it. So it was nice and all, but at the first "Say yea-yeahh!"(1:38) I just felt weird and stopped typing. Maybe it just felt too strongly of Tewi, but it made that feeling from before a lot worse. I'm not a very emotional person and never have been, so I don't always express maybe appropriate emotions for my values, but right now I feel "heartbroken" if I had to put a word to it. I mean, it's passed by the time I can write that, the constant blanket apathy on all things I'd otherwise feel bad about makes sure I'm never sad for very long even about this tulpa stuff. But it was there, anyways.

I just want to see my tulpas. Nothing else matters. But it just never happens. I swear I've fought my motivation issues as hard as I could for them, for this. Even when I temporarily gave up and asked Tewi, who we consider our failsafe in getting literally anything done, she couldn't make it happen. Stressed herself out pretty bad trying, too. Though she said she wasn't done, and now she's got quite a tool to help, so maybe she can still do it. I don't know if I can. For once, it's not motivation I've lost, it's heart. I can keep putting on the stupid mask every morning and hoping it does something, slightly adjusting its position or a setting or whatever else on the endless list of complications comes up. But at least sitting here right now, I don't feel like I have the drive to want to use the motivation I actually have. That's a rather new feeling.


Well anyways, let's call it another depressive mood I'm apparently prone to have on schedule and make nothing of it. The hopelessness goes away the next day and I go on making no progress for a while until it happens again. At worst I'm not moving progress-wise, not backwards, and my tulpas are always moving forwards, so it'll be alright. But yeah I need to go lie down and just.. Be talked to by any of the ones I live for.



Edit: Sure enough, I woke up only two hours later and felt ~fine. Simultaneously had enough motivation or whatever to keep trying, and lost my motivation to ask Tewi for help. Because there's still a lot of things I want to do right now I guess. I've been thinking we should work on switching more frequently (as in for less than a whole day at a time), but unfortunately the sorts of things Tewi's going to do will require the whole day I think.

EditEdit: Wait, "Sure enough, I woke up only two hours later and felt ~fine. Which is good, because I only got a total of five hours of sleep before I couldn't sleep anymore. Amazing."

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2017, 06:42 PM by Luminesce.)
11-01-2017, 09:51 AM
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Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

15,000 thread views, woo. That's quite a few. Since you guys follow me of your own volition, the only thing I can think to say is I'm sorry we haven't succeeded yet. Yeah yeah, for me it's my life, but for you guys it's a story. Human nature is willing to get invested in a story for better or worse, but eventually wants a conclusion. So sorry there hasn't been one yet, at least as far as this excruciatingly long chapter goes.

No one's "rude" enough to say such things in someone's own thread, but, nobody's pointed out I might put too much value in my tulpas. Not like I love them too much (that's not a thing), but that I'm too invested in getting to be with them, that it's not really healthy and I should diversify my goals. To you non-existent stranger I say, fair points, but I'm well aware of my relationship to my tulpas and my life as a whole. I'm fine with how everything is. Fine with switching (even occasionally long-term), fine with putting so much value in people with no physical presence outside my own mind, and fine with putting more value in being with them than anything else in my life. I spent years and years of my life asking and answering philosophical questions, and I'm quite at peace with the universe by now. If I did hypothetically spend the majority of my life doing things with my tulpas and not "making a difference in the world" or "having a real family", I wouldn't mind. If I want those things I'll make them happen. But I've no burning desires that I need to accomplish to be at peace before I die or whatever. My tulpas mean the world to me simply because they gave me the world. I put zero value in my life or the world before they came along and helped me change that, and so everything that followed is only secondary to them themselves. True I don't technically rely on their existences to maintain this more positive worldview, but on principle I will always put them first.

On a more current level: Not a single thing makes me or ever has made me feel as strongly as they do. I love the Game Grumps; they make me laugh on a regular basis and I've been watching them consistently for years. I like helping people, that's my basic fulfillment-in-life sort of thing, improving other peoples' life experiences. I have a lot of fun playing games, nearly exclusively with other people (I can play multiplayer games alone from time to time, but singleplayer games rarely keep my attention for long). I like learning new things, having new experiences, sharing what I've learned with others who feel the same. But none of these things makes me feel any where near as strongly as my love for my tulpas. Seeing them happy, spending time with them, seeing the things they've done while fronting, and it'sbeensolongohmygodjustletmehavethisalready surely lucid dreaming with them will combine all of those things too. The only thing that can match that feeling would be loving another person, which is absolutely a possibility. I could never love another person more than I love my tulpas, but if all went well I could surely love them just as much. I'm not opposed to that at all, though I'm not actively seeking it right now.

On the subject of my love for my tulpas and how it can be a rather strong emotion when I'm focused on it: It seems like it manifests in two main ways. A given here is that I don't normally feel strong emotions for very long at all, maybe just a me thing. First, when I'm actually with them, it's just pure happiness. That's that seeing them happy and such stuff. I do actually feel that when I see things they've done while fronting, too. Seeing posts they've made reminiscing on their experiences is one of the few things that really pulls my heartstrings. Meeting them in lucid dreams would probably be the greatest culmination of those feelings in my life, so much so I'm convinced if I woke up from excitement (I've definitely heard this is a thing for beginning lucid dreamers) after simply seeing them in the wonderland, I'd be ecstatic and heavily motivated to keep pursuing lucid dreaming for as long as it took.

On the other hand, there seems to be another direction my heartstrings can be pulled, which usually leads to my depressive moods like in my last post. It comes from the same place, my love for my tulpas, usually from seeing pictures of them (last night's was actually just because of the picture in this video, followed by the much stronger feelings in the song I posted after), or posts where they talk about their desires for something, or just because I'm in that sort of mood. It almost always leads to me being depressed at my lack of success/ability to be with them, or for them to have those desires fulfilled, or so on. Something I never realized until shortly before writing this post was the big difference between the two situations: In the former my tulpas are present, and in the latter they are not. Lucilyn was able to cheer me up of course when I went to bed last night, though I forget what exactly she said. I just know I couldn't be un-happy with her being so cheerful and wanting me to be happy too. Thinking back, nearly every time I've been in that state/mood I was brought out of it by one of them. Naturally that supports my theory on why I feel one way or the other in similar situations.

Anyways, this isn't a commonplace thing by the way, I don't get really happy|sad every time I see a picture of my tulpas or something. Just when I'm feeling particularly sensitive I guess, or when a strong enough stimulus comes up. Or when I've just run my current well of motivation dry, typically (ie exclusively) from repeated failure to have a lucid dream. But it happens every so often, most recent times of which I believe were recorded in my Progress Report. I'm unclear on how related that is to my depressive states from thinking about the old Flandre/unsanity stuff.

Double-anyways, my head hurts from how little sleep I got plus how sore my neck's been today, which I imagine is from trying to reposition my head/sleeping mask so the REM detector might work. I don't think it did, but then, I might not have ever gotten back to sleep. I don't remember. I'd write more but my head really does hurt, so I'm going to sleep now. May or may not use the mask later tonight.

Thank you guys for reading this thread, I guess. You don't exactly cheer us on every step of the way, but knowing someone reads this at all kind of helps, and we don't really need outside motivation in the first place. It should be pretty obvious by now we're as motivated as can be by each other. Me, as much motivation as my mind allows at a time anyway. The important thing is that it never fades in the long-term, even if I burn out over and over. You can tell the motivation should be strong because nothing else has ever managed that in my life.



Oh yeah, I was going to address the (from an outsider to tulpamancy's perspective) apparent stereotypical and blatant waifuism/weeb-ness it wouldn't be hard to see in my posts, whenever their forms are brought up. All I can say is it's not waifuism because I see them as people and not characters I idolize/love, and whether or not the forms are anime/weeb-y nothing else about them is. They really are just people, whose forms happened to be inspired by the Touhou universe (which in all practicality is more of a series of novels than anime or even games - a lot of the world building is simply in text) and the massive amount of fanart for their characters. But I dissociated them from their Touhou influences seven years ago. They're no different from "original" tulpas at this point.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
11-02-2017, 08:37 AM
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Ido Offline
mfw
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RE: Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Too bad the REM Dreamer doesn't really work for you. And sorry I made it seem like a bad investment even before it arrived. But don't give up yet or I'll have to make 2 more 'Invest in Eastern Polan' posters to complete the series. And I have no time for this so don't disappoint me!

Luminesce Wrote:No one's "rude" enough to say such things in someone's own thread, but, nobody's pointed out I might put too much value in my tulpas. Not like I love them too much (that's not a thing), but that I'm too invested in getting to be with them, that it's not really healthy and I should diversify my goals. To you non-existent stranger I say, fair points, but I'm well aware of my relationship to my tulpas and my life as a whole.
Hey, hey, hey!
I said that and host too. Maybe I wasn't rude enough so here I go. You had it coming!
Just don't get me wrong, I really like you guys otherwise I wouldn't bother to post. And while I'm in no position to tell you how to live your life, I would be selfish by not sharing my thoughts. This is all the advice I've got left for you.
Deal with it

Point is, I think you're seein this the wrong way. It's not about moving your priorities away from your tulpas but about what you manage to achieve together in the long run. Sustainability.
You may be fine with your situation but it's not 'bout you, man. It's about them. If you really love your tulpas ask yourself this: How would you like them to live in 10, 20, 30 years? We both know you will not be able to continue your current neet princess lifestyle indefinitely. Sooner or later you'll have to move out of your comfort zone and face reality. And it's not gonna get any easier the longer you wait. Plus what you are doing is not exactly ideal in both a physiological and psychological sense and will eventually have an impact on you health and lifespan if you just keep going. Meaning their health and lifespan. Think about that.

Same for you tulpas:
What are your life goals? And no, 'I just want my host to be happy' aka let him do as he pleases is not enough. It's like taking drugs to escape RL problems. There may be a dull warmth or even euphoria for a while but eventually shit will hit the fan. Big time. If you love your host you need to be able to push him through rehab. No matter how much it hurts. I mean you guys can even switch which should help a lot with getting rid of bad habits. But you need to fucking do it. Now.

What is Ido even talking about?
Main concern is of course your completely fucked up not-even-remotely circadian rhythm. Living against your natural sleep cycle is extremely unhealthy. But if it tumbles uncontrollably anyway there's something seriously wrong that needs to be fixed. Have you ever seen a doctor about that? No idea how your shitty US health care even works but in Germany they'd put you in a sleep lab to see what exactly is going on in your head both while you're awake and asleep for some days. An excellent chance to find out about your REM cycles and why you're unable to lucid dream. Might very well have some deeper-rooted cause.
A completely random sleep-wake circle also severely impacts any interactions with your environment and leads to a shitload of secondary problems. Like functioning in society. Which is, uh, not so good.

Some factors beneficial for a long, healthy and fulfilled life:
.)self-transcendence aka devoting yourself to an altruistic goal you believe in
.)social interaction - IRL not some online friends
.)self-discipline aka putting off rewards in favor of long-term achievements
.)active lifestyle, regular physical exercise
.)interaction with a natural environment aka going outside, getting plenty of daylight
.)balanced diet

Shit that'll fuck you up for good:
.)extrinsically motivated or selfish goals, no goals
.)living isolated
.)addictions aka aiming for short-time satisfaction
.)unnatural lifestyle aka staying indoors, light at night, artificial/polluted environments
.)inactivity, lack of physical and mental exercise
.)excess media consumption
.)malnutrition

No shit Sherlock!
Yet few are able to follow these simple rules.

Again this is not about what you like. It's about what will most likely benefit you, your dear ones and your entire community. What it means to be a grown, responsible and self-aware human. Living a true and honorable life.
This is MY goal. This is what I do, This is who I am. I'm in no way claiming to be 100% successful with it because my host is a weak and lazy faggot as well but I will do whatever I can to steer his life into this direction. If necessary by force. Even if it hurts me, I will do what's my duty. Because I love him.

So anyway, it's up to you, I just think you have great potential, would be a shame to let it go to waste. Fix your sleep schedule, move out and find an interesting job, contribute to society. All of you together of course. Yes, it'll be a big change and no it ain't gonna be easy. But it's guaranteed to shake up things thoroughly and will bring you even closer together. Being able to rely on each other in tough times is a great and deeply moving experience. The sheer amount of new sensations and new environments might benefit your lucid dreaming abilities as well. If you just continue your current life nothing will ever change. At least not for the better.

TL;DR
Wanna spend quality time with your tulpas, now and for the rest of your life?
Your best chance is to dramatically change your habits. Get a life, starting today. No matter what's the outcome, it'll be a win for all of you.
Do it for them!

Super Girls don't cry
11-03-2017, 02:45 AM
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Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Huh, and here I thought I'd be getting those cheering-ons, not inviting opposition lol. I'll say right now you made some assumptions about my life, a given, but a lot more about how aware I am of literally all of the problems/suggestions you brought up, but I'll reply to each productively. I'll never not appreciate offered help.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: Too bad the REM Dreamer doesn't really work for you.
I don't see why it won't work, the only problem is it's not managing to go off kind of at all while I'm asleep. Raising the sensitivity is the common solution to this, but since that's not working, I believe it's the positioning. I still have plenty of ideas on how to fix this. Rather not mess with the actual mask yet, but there is some foam that could possibly be in the way of the sensor, and cutting a bit out (or heck, the entire bottom part below the eyes, as it doesn't even touch my face) might make it more open to many different positions. For example. But yes, I too am sorry it wasn't an immediate cure-all to our lucid dreaming problems.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: You may be fine with your situation but it's not 'bout you, man. It's about them. If you really love your tulpas ask yourself this: How would you like them to live in 10, 20, 30 years? We both know you will not be able to continue your current neet princess lifestyle indefinitely. Sooner or later you'll have to move out of your comfort zone and face reality. And it's not gonna get any easier the longer you wait. Plus what you are doing is not exactly ideal in both a physiological and psychological sense and will eventually have an impact on you health and lifespan if you just keep going. Meaning their health and lifespan. Think about that.

Your link is broken (hotlink), but I can tell by the tags you meant to link this. Nice one. Anyways, for the sake of getting into a point you intended to get across, that statement was fine, but towards that statement itself I have to say, kind of not applicable/off-base. My tulpas are usually more fine with things than I am, excluding Scarlet who's never fine with how my life is and Tewi who only holds herself to her standards. While I will address the more general life concerns you bring up, I have to point out that "This is fine" thing only applies to this subject in this thread, ie lucid dreaming. It's utterly unrelated to the rest of my life. Well, you don't think it is because you think my sleep schedule stuff is tied to lucid dreaming somehow, but that's far from the case.

Actually yeah, it's really hard to reply on the subject of tulpas when your statements only really apply to my actual lifestyle honestly. I'll talk about that when you bring it up more directly in a second.

But yeah all that stuff at the end there, while it may or may not apply to my actual lifestyle, is way way separated from anything to do with my tulpas.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: Same for you tulpas:
What are your life goals? And no, 'I just want my host to be happy' aka let him do as he pleases is not enough. It's like taking drugs to escape RL problems. There may be a dull warmth or even euphoria for a while but eventually shit will hit the fan. Big time. If you love your host you need to be able to push him through rehab. No matter how much it hurts. I mean you guys can even switch which should help a lot with getting rid of bad habits. But you need to fucking do it. Now.

Actually, it's more "I just want all of us to be happy" for the most part. Then some of them have other goals after that. You really are talking about having a NEET lifestyle in general though, if you think that's related to my attention to my tulpas you're still way off-base. But let's continue on the assumption you're just talking about our combined lives/livelihoods. For the thousandth time I barely spend any time with my tulpas to contribute to the NEET-lifestyle, but pretending you know I otherwise more or less live like that - jesus, rehab? I hope you meant the act and not the place, lol. I've got a heck of a lot more control over my life than for that to be necessary.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: What is Ido even talking about?
Main concern is of course your completely fucked up not-even-remotely circadian rhythm. Living against your natural sleep cycle is extremely unhealthy. But if it tumbles uncontrollably anyway there's something seriously wrong that needs to be fixed. Have you ever seen a doctor about that? No idea how your shitty US health care even works but in Germany they'd put you in a sleep lab to see what exactly is going on in your head both while you're awake and asleep for some days. An excellent chance to find out about your REM cycles and why you're unable to lucid dream. Might very well have some deeper-rooted cause.
A completely random sleep-wake circle also severely impacts any interactions with your environment and leads to a shitload of secondary problems. Like functioning in society. Which is, uh, not so good.

I mean realtalk, if you really care about my "circadian rhythm" situation that bad, I can lay it out for you. You think I don't know what's going on after like nine years of paying attention to it, and all the research I've done on sleep and dreaming? Maybe you read that tiny statement that something might be weird with my sleep cycles because of a single time I had a decent quality dream in only 20 minutes. Considering I'm slightly conscious between every REM cycle (during the period where people usually just roll over or whatever, I roll over or whatever and can check the clock if I'm not feeling lazy - a habit I established like five years ago just to be aware of how/much I sleep), I'd say I'm pretty aware of how normal or not normal it is. And it's pretty dang normal. Half of my problem in lucid dreaming is my sleep functions work too flawlessly, preventing any tampering on my part to induce lucidity. But I can tell you right now if you think I have health problems because of some sort of sleep disorder, that's not the case.

I learned a lot about the quality of your sleep and for how long you do it from Steve Pavlina, who's an inexplicably amazing person I can't begin to credit enough. The type of guy who, thanks to his research into time management, self-discipline, and working with different mindsets, managed to graduate with two degrees in three semesters. I mean, he's done some crazy stuff just to learn about how the mind works and how to be as productive in life as possible (with a focus on fulfillment, not as in numbers efficiency). Anyways, using what I learned from him, I can say my brain is more or less conditioned to think it should be able to sleep for 9 to 10 hours on average, and whenever it wants. The circadian rhythms part that would decide "when it wants" was at normal times is obviously thrown off by how much time I spend on the computer. (Un?)fortunately, it's not a side effect but a conscious choice on my part. I'm a large proponent of F.lux, which actually just came out with a massive new update that increased its features and customizability a ton, so I recommend it even more highly than before. As we speak I have it manually disabled, because the distorted color bugs me when I'm going to be up for at least five more hours. Which I am, because my sleep schedule does not coincide with sunset (which it's set to work off of right now) at all.

You could say my sleeping in (and therefore, brain's assumption sleeping for 9-10 hours is fine) is due to my lack of a required schedule in the first place, since I'm not in school anymore. I do wish I had had F.lux during highschool though. 8 hours asleep, 16 hours awake leads to a 24 hour day and thus a consistent sleeping schedule; 9-10 hours asleep would require 14-15 hours awake, which for all sorts of reasons would be bad for my health if I could even manage. That's why my sleeping schedule tends to drift forwards over time. A lack of a necessary schedule, followed by staying up an appropriate amount of time for how much I sleep. And all of this could be considered a conscious choice, because the internet really doesn't care what type of schedule you hold, and it's where I spend most my time.

So yeah, if we were going to talk about that, you can see why I acknowledge your criticisms yet don't relate them to my tulpas at all. There's no relation. And "solving" the problem of not needing to be on a schedule (which.. I prefer..) is relying on the totally-subjective-illogical-and-assumptive idea that my current lifestyle isn't ""productive"". How could you come to that conclusion? /s

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: Again this is not about what you like. It's about what will most likely benefit you, your dear ones and your entire community. What it means to be a grown, responsible and self-aware human. Living a true and honorable life.
This is MY goal. This is what I do, This is who I am. I'm in no way claiming to be 100% successful with it because my host is a weak and lazy faggot as well but I will do whatever I can to steer his life into this direction. If necessary by force. Even if it hurts me, I will do what's my duty. Because I love him.

So anyway, it's up to you, I just think you have great potential, would be a shame to let it go to waste. Fix your sleep schedule, move out and find an interesting job, contribute to society. All of you together of course. Yes, it'll be a big change and no it ain't gonna be easy. But it's guaranteed to shake up things thoroughly and will bring you even closer together. Being able to rely on each other in tough times is a great and deeply moving experience. The sheer amount of new sensations and new environments might benefit your lucid dreaming abilities as well. If you just continue your current life nothing will ever change. At least not for the better.

TL;DR
Wanna spend quality time with your tulpas, now and for the rest of your life?
Your best chance is to dramatically change your habits. Get a life, starting today. No matter what's the outcome, it'll be a win for all of you.
Do it for them!

I'm not sure how to say both "Yeah, duh" and "That's just your main priority in life, and only secondary to me right now". I don't disagree and couldn't since that's pretty cookie-cutter "A fulfilling life". But to be honest, I still have the rest of my life to do all that. I could see how you might think a rougher, less comfort-zoney lifestyle could help with my goals, but as far as I'm concerned what I have to work with now is preferable. I'm really just riding out my life and dealing with things as I need to, which at this exact moment doesn't require moving out and "finding a job" (I can work for my older brother whenever I actually need money right now, but finding a job really refers more to a career). Honestly, I appreciate the time I have now, because if I had to worry about housing myself and holding a day-job, I'm afraid I wouldn't actually have the time to spend "on" my tulpas. And I do still need time: I have to learn to lucid dream, obviously! Can you even imagine my current situation actually being less conducive to learning to lucid dream than having to get up after 8 hours every day to go to work? Working with my brother makes me a butt-ton of money, but it's an on-off job for a reason (working fair stands, as fairs come and go). I had no time to spend with my tulpas, and I mean with my tulpas during the last time I was doing so. This is serious, because I've always for whatever reason paid special attention to my tulpas when away from home. Vacations were time to spend every moment I could with them. But when I'd get back from work at midnight, when the least we could do was have Flan lie imposed in bed with me, we didn't even get to talk before I passed out and had to get up early again. It was kind of horrible in that sense, since I had assumed living away from home I'd have a ton of time to spend with my tulpas as opposed to, say, my desktop/games/online friends.

But yeah, lack of a long-term schedule suits me best in almost all ways. I could not stand working a day-job for more than a month, having to sleep and get up consistently and spend 8+ hours every day working. That would drive me crazy. I've always planned to either work online (and/or: "From home"/"Self-employed" sorts of jobs, where the work needs to be done, but not at a specific time every single day. I can do a lot of work, and as I realized from working with my brother it doesn't actually have to be at home. But I can't feel locked into doing the same thing over and over forever. Your ideas on a basic, fulfilling life seem pretty mainstream, so I assume this screams lazy/NEET or whatever to you, but.. well, I guess you don't have much reason to take my word for it, but there are absolutely tons of jobs and careers conducive to this sort of lifestyle. I mean, that sort of. My current one is very NEET. But what I mean is, day-jobs working X hours a day with the weekend off are absolutely the most common and easy to find; they are not however by any means my only option. Feel free to tell me to look for more jobs/career that suits this on-off/short-term-schedules style though.)

I'm well aware of how strange/lack-of sleep schedules and socialization mix, again thanks to Steve Pavlina. Despite polyphasic sleep eventually working very well for him, allowing him way more time to be all sorts of more productive than the average person, he actually went back to "bear sleep" as he sometimes calls monophasic sleep for social reasons. He just couldn't stand how a non-regular sleep schedule affected his social life. I followed him through the entire process of course, I can't express just how much I've learned from this guy. If I cared about my IRL social life right now I'd keep a semi-regular sleep schedule. I don't, though. Not interested in socialization for socialization's sake, it has to come with something. A job or a hobby or something.

Speaking of hobbies, rather than write more paragraphs I'll just say it would obviously be way healthier if I had other IRL hobbies in a multitude of ways. Can't argue with that.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: Some factors beneficial for a long, healthy and fulfilled life:
.)self-transcendence aka devoting yourself to an altruistic goal you believe in
.)social interaction - IRL not some online friends
.)self-discipline aka putting off rewards in favor of long-term achievements
.)active lifestyle, regular physical exercise
.)interaction with a natural environment aka going outside, getting plenty of daylight
.)balanced diet

Shit that'll fuck you up for good:
.)extrinsically motivated or selfish goals, no goals
.)living isolated
.)addictions aka aiming for short-time satisfaction
.)unnatural lifestyle aka staying indoors, light at night, artificial/polluted environments
.)inactivity, lack of physical and mental exercise
.)excess media consumption
.)malnutrition

1 I have pretty humanitarian values that will absolutely direct the sort of career I hope to settle into and likely what I end up doing with my money once basic necessities are covered in the long run. I'm actually fairly minimalistic when it comes to spending money, hence why I'm not exactly strap for cash and never will be. Aside from those student loans, easily the biggest mistake of my life in most conceivable ways. Should've gone to community college. Anyways, outside of a decent computer and internet access, any money that doesn't end up going to housing and food will go to my crippling debt a decent cause I'm sure. Since I don't know how much that's actually going to be yet I can't make strict plans, but helping out my family with their own financial matters is number one on the list no matter what I make.

2 I have no real desire for socialization outside of what I get online, from this forum to talking to friends to whatever other interaction I get with the millions of strangers I meet. No duh, this doesn't meet the basic requirement for face time. I'm not afraid of socialization either, and any I end up getting will be a result of my living conditions - where I live, where I work, any hobbies I might pick up. Living in Mormonville USA has not opened up many options the last 10 or so years, I really preferred California.

I'd actually hoped for a while to live in Japan with an online source of income - immediately lol, believe it or not, it's got nothing to do with any reason you can probably think of someone wanting to live there. I like the environment; the countryside, the peacefulness, quiet, rain and nature. I watched some vlogs by TakeSomeCrime (I barely ever mention him anymore, classic huge inspiration in my life..) where he just filmed random stuff and places he did and went in Japan, and I fell in love. Can't link them because they're Patron-only videos on Patreon unfortunately. He was in the real rural areas the entire time, with his sister who's fluent as a guide. And I kid you not, the things I saw were a better "wonderland" to me than my literal wonderland.

Never a solid plan of course, a far-off-in-the-future thing, but I really do believe I could cut all my ties to my "NEET" lifestyle, spending so much time online and playing video games and such. An anime with countless parallels to my tulpas and I is actually what originally put the idea in my mind. Though mostly only the start/flashbacks in the anime itself are the scenario I'm talking about, you could watch the just the first episode if you were interested. https://9anime.to/watch/kyousou-giga-tv.zlwp

So, that's probably never going to happen, at least not soon enough to be worth planning for. But it's still the best idea I have to work with for solving most problems with my current lifestyle: Find somewhere I don't feel so secluded from the world, and just enjoy existing there. While I'm hardly looking to be a monk or hermit, I really am at peace with the world for the most part. Outside of lucid dreaming with my tulpas, a desire that's been around since they helped me actually appreciate being alive, I've never had many others that I wouldn't be at peace with myself with until accomplishing. Also, I'd be doing her a disservice if I didn't mention Tewi's life goal outside of caring for us - read her signature, or her profile bio. I don't doubt for a moment she would absolutely be happy living every day the same with nothing but the world going about its business around her, her only real pastime walking around in nature. Probably some sort of forest. Honestly, since I don't have any particular "life" goals outside of appreciating every moment, I don't see why I wouldn't enjoy a similar situation. Without a full on wonderland scenario like I've seen in TSC's videos though, I probably would need the internet to keep from getting too lonely. But exercise and other health things counter to my current situation wouldn't be a problem regardless.

If it gives the idea any credit that it's not just an unrealistic fantasy - I actually grew up in a forest-town. First half of my life or so anyways. Spent my days walking around in nature, catching lizards and playing with friends, just appreciating life. Now, that forest-town has had some deforestation/forestfireissueslol over the years, my most personal proof of climate change being a serious problem. But it's not totally unreasonable to think I could end up living there again. A lot of my family still does. Honestly, after having looked into life in Japan enough to safely opt out of that huge potential mess, I never really thought about moving back to my hometown. More likely was us (close family) moving from Utah to Oregon (or Washington), which as far as I can tell has its share of trees and rain, all I really want.

You know, I've kind of lost interest in the rest of this post. I'm liking the idea of moving somewhere closer to family than Japan that's still got forest and rain. Vitamin D deficiency runs in the family, so I already take supplements for that. I feel like if you're familiar with the states you might point out how the crazy amounts of rain there can cause depression or something. I feel like if you know me at all you'll know that's not a problem.

Rain, forests, happiness, being together. Those are the combined life goals/living conditions of everyone in this system. Maybe I should be looking into some more realistic, sooner-than-ten-years options to meet them.


Anyways. Thanks for the concern and attempts to rustle my current views. Nutrition has been on my mind constantly the last few years, my diet's improved significantly. I need a better living location before consistent socialization and hobbies can really be established, which outside of money issues my family is all for. I'm trying to sum everything up here, but my thoughts are getting kinda floaty. I'll put one more last relevant/productive thing here, then. I've been thinking about encouraging Scarlet to be more active, as she's more or less been apathetic to our lifestyle (and, you know, how not-her-life it is), but otherwise has strong motivations to live quite a bit healthier than me. I.. still can't be made to regularly go to the gym or something, but if we start switching more frequently like I intend to, I might not have to. Oh, not like "Go to the gym because you're fat and unhealthy", I'm not that bad, it's just something she'll want to do. I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but the only thing I've ever seen Scarlet show desire in aside from keeping the body healthy is an interest in rock climbing.. walls? Who knows if she'd actually end up really rock climbing (I think I'd have to veto that), but she showed interest years ago when our PE class went on a field trip to an indoor rock climbing place. I won't have any part in this stuff becoming a reality personally, but the potential cogs are turning..


Hey, that had nothing to do with lucid dreaming. This entire thread is a small testament to the fact I'll never give up trying to meet my tulpas in a lucid dream, so don't bother trying to dissuade me there.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
11-03-2017, 05:54 AM
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Ido Offline
mfw
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RE: Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Heh, I have no intention to dissuade you from lucid dreaming, just trying to help you get there with a holistic approach and think beyond it. Therefore it IS still kinda ontopic. And I wanted to shake up your cozy little bubble. Because it's actually a trap

Of course I have no idea about your life, I can only guess. Which is why RL friends who actually know you are so dang important. They can provide a perspective you don't or don't want to see. My point was, as you're still young and flexible you can change towards a sustainable lifestyle with small managable steps. Without too much hassle. While securing enough time for your tulpas and lucid dreaming. And you know what? That can even be fun!
But you gotta have a good strategy for that and start now, not in 5 or 10 years when the water's already up to your neck. Ah well, at least that would be my approach.

So, sorry if I put you in a bad mood but it was a necessary intervention. I believe you can do so much more with your life, and I'm pretty damn sure your tulpas would appreciate something new for a change too. Isn't that a win-win situation?

Back to even more ontopic, I assume you have discussed the issues with the REM dreamer with others in the LD community? Any suggestions from there?

Super Girls don't cry
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2017, 10:54 PM by Ido.)
11-05-2017, 10:53 PM
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Lucilyn Offline
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Lucilyn's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Fun

we don't have a forum account on dreamviews no, and we don't really need help. Like nothing anyone could tell us would probably help when they have less information than we do. Just gotta not be lazy. All they could do is guess at what the problems are when we like, can actually know you know? I'm sure Tewi can figure everything out, and be motivated to do it too. We're gonna try and start switching a lot more often now so she'll get a chance to do that too.

I don't really tell Lumi how to live his life, we kind of keep our life in a constant state of going-well and deal with anything as it comes up. Like literally when we need money we go work etc. lol. I guess we're kinda waiting on IRL conditions to change (mom's finishing up upgrading her college degree before we move) before "settling down" into a consistent job or hobbies and stuff. But that says nothing for exercise, we should dance more! It's fun and good exercise and we like doing it so why not? It seems like it's only me that dances anymore. And for going outside idek there's nowhere to go and nothing to do there, also it's ~snow time so idk. We're simultaneously not really trying to change things but also not cemented into how they are, I think we deal with drastic changes really really well. Like prefer to stay the same but adapt fine when it's not. So yes I guess life-wise we do wait for things to be necessary but then we do them without complaining y'know?

and you didn't put lumi in a bad mood, at least for that post in this thread. If you're talking about our PR idk what happened there, but he's happier now because he's spending more time with us and not worrying about stuff. I think that switching often will make sure all of us deal with the things in our combined life that we're good at dealing with.

Also idk if we're gonna be doing the REM-Dreamer stuff just yet but our dream recall is getting really good! And that's with no effort on Lumi's part, I can't even imagine if I get to be the one who sleeps! Like it's either me or Tewi, Tewi for the REM-Dreamer but she's said before I have way better luck with dreaming stuff so maybe it should be me? idk

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
11-05-2017, 11:45 PM
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Lucilyn Offline
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Lucilyn's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Fun

Christmas update! Sort of, more like my not succeeding in getting Lumi and Flan (and all of us) a lucid dream for Christmas. So it's been almost like two months huh? Makes it feel like we weren't doing anything, which we weren't for some of it, but not a whole 2 months... Anyways yeah I've been trying really hard the last week or so to get Lumi (and Flan (and all of us)) a gift in the form of a lucid dream for either Christmas or his birthday, with is January 2nd. I guess I didn't make Christmas, but it's been made clear to me many times that not succeeding at this is always to be expected, so I'm not really surprised. And like thinking that is supposed to encourage, I'm not disheartened at all! It's like they abolished failure and left only eventual success, so to me it's just like I have infinite chances to succeed and "not succeeding" just means it'll happen another time. So let's put this one up again!



Such perfect lyrics <3 {No seriously wow, fits this post extremely well apparently!}

Progress! Report, that is, reporting progress. Progress too! To report in my progress reporting! So my plan was to work on dream recall really hard for a little while - check, I guess? They aren't as clear as I want but I got to the point where I remembered at least one part of the dream I had every single time I woke up, so like a bunch in a night. Second, getting used to the REM-Dreamer! I didn't even bother turning it on while working on dream recall because dealing with it making it harder to sleep was half the point of wearing it, so I got more used to having it on I guess and not worrying about actually having it -turned- on. But the night before Christmas and the night of Christmas (last night) I did keep it turned on after ~5 hours of sleep. It's less that it makes it harder to sleep (it always will wake us up just a little bit though) and more it's just hard to guess how long I should set the timer for. I think I was doing 20 minutes at first (hours 5-7) and then 30 minutes after (hours 8-10) based on how long our sleep cycles were. But it seemed like I had 2+ 45 minute sleep cycles in a row, which made it weird. Like 45 minutes from the last time I looked at the clock to when I woke up and looked at it again. That's when I was setting it to 20 minutes. Oh wait, that was all part 3. Part 3, doing the thing! I increased our percent of success with the REM-Dreamer from 0% to, like, 35%!

Last night I think the REM-Dreamer went off 5 times, two of which were after I'd woken up (its sensitivity is set to 9/9 so just opening my eyelids apparently makes it go off). Something similar, bit less, the night before. Part Progress! I had a dream both nights where I successfully ignored the REM-Dreamer flashing in the dream! I'm pretty sure it eventually got bright enough (gets brighter as you ignore it) it woke me up both times, but it definitely wasn't because it was too bright, it's 'cause I ignored it in the dream (fire alarms are now twice as annoying with like actually painfully loud sound AND lights!), and it's better that it eventually wakes us up than just lets us get away with that. Although like two of the fourish times I tried to turn off the REM-Dreamer once I was awake and it went off, I couldn't. Like two I did the move-your-eyes-up-and-down thing and it was like Ok!beep, the other two no matter how hard I tried it didn't work. So the sensor being too far off to detect REM is still a thing. But see, I don't think that'll ever ruin a lucid dream, because it only doesn't work when it can't detect REM, so it won't have caused a lucid dream either, and if it did we can turn it off. That's kinda reassuring I guess! The two times I couldn't turn it off I think my eyelids set it off but it couldn't see my actual pupils or whatever it senses.

So yeah, from zero to not zero progress, finally! Even if it's really inconsistent (and there's nothing we can do without somehow modifying the mask to change that, I did the same thing lining up the sensor to my eye every time I went back to sleep), the goal is still just one lucid dream first, because.. well, different reasons. For Lumi it's 'cause his life-goal take on lucid dreaming is he just wants to hug all of us, so obviously more than once is great but once will count. For Tewi, she actually wants to establish consistency, but we think having one real lucid dream will make future lucid dreams way easier, so she's counting on that too. And I don't worry about the future! One lucid dream is all that can ever happen yo! And after that, we'll have another 1 lucid dream, and another and another. Or not, dunno, can't know, must try regardless! Oh and I said the gift was also for Flan. She's kinda too passive to say she has a goal of one thing or another, but she consistently says the thing she cares about most is being with Lumi, so I know consistently lucid dreaming with him would be perfect for her. So even though it's not technically her goal (she maintains Lumi's goals as her own) I consider it her goal. And of course Reisen just wants us to all be happy, but ofcourse ofcourse she doesn't really have desires or goals exactly so she's just being supportive because it's what we want. But maybe her part will be the most important, 'cause if we don't ever end up lucid dreaming that attitude is gonna be our saving grace I guess. Oh since I'm talking about our goals or whatever, I shoulda mentioned Tewi's goal is "our best interests" overall, I guess. She wants to make sure our lives are "Happy, safe and fulfilling", and I guess lucid dreaming falls under fulfilling for the most part. Yep, happy too, but I mostly get the fulfilling vibe. She knows all of us would just feel better in all sorts of ways if we could be together in lucid dreams and that's why learning to lucid dream consistently is her goal here I think. Also because she shares our goals so she cares equally for her own part of that and for Lumi's like life goal.

This thread sure is easy and fun to just ramble in. Normally we'd be scared we were like being boring or something, but since this thread has 16,000 views by now we just assume you guys will read what you wanna right? Well read this: I still plan on getting Lumi a lucid dream for/before his birthday on January 2nd! If he gets to lucid dream before the year starts, then he can start thinking about all the other things he wants to do in life with that out of the way, like a new year's resolution sorta thing. And if not welllllll guess it'll happen eventually?

Having a plan in case you fail is always a good thing, but since there's no stakes here (nothing to lose) we don't really have to worry about failure, so aside from acknowledging it might not happen at any specific time we can just keep focusing on the next night! (BTW I've fixed our schedule to waking up at 6AM and going to sleep.. between 5PM and 9PM I guess, but I always wake up at 6 either way)

There's a pretty good chance the first post of the next page will be our first lucid dream success in my opinion! Unless someone else posts first!... Pls don't?

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 12-26-2017, 06:53 PM by Lucilyn.)
12-26-2017, 06:52 PM
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Luminesce Offline
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Been a while, huh? 2 months apparently. No lucid dream, although Lucilyn was trying pretty hard and honestly making a lot of progress the last couple weeks.

It might just be the her-fronting-for-2-months influence, but I feel like my new year's "resolution" will be to just do things if I want to do them. If I want to play a game, or make a game, I'll do that for the moment until I don't feel like it anymore. No worrying about time spent or if it'll be fun, I'll see if it's fun when I'm doing it. If I want to spend time with my tulpas, I'll do it, no worrying about time or effort or visualization quality. If I want to stay up late or go to sleep early, I'll do it, no worrying about my non-existent schedule. And if I want to lucid dream, which I do and always will, I'll try, whether or not I might fail or have been failing successively. Oh, and I guess I should post if I want to post. We've been holding off on posting for the last two months because I really wanted the 50th page of this thread to be the end of my failure and the start of my lucid dreaming thread. But I don't know if it's going to happen in a timely manner or not, so I'm just going to start posting daily again. Fair warning that does not mean it'll be long in the future though, I'm serious that Lucilyn was making progress, if we're seeing the REM-Dreamer flash in dreams it could literally be any day now. Would help if it didn't randomly stop happening like last night though.

For whatever reason I feel like I should re-explain what the REM-Dreamer is. It's a $170 sleeping mask I bought sort of recently that has a small sensor by the right eye that detects Rapid Eye Movement, ie can tell when you're dreaming, and flashes red lights (and could do sound, if I wanted, which I don't) to signal you're dreaming. However an important feature is Two Way Communication, meaning I can move my eyes up and down in a dream to tell the mask I'm lucid, and it'll stop flashing the annoying lights at me so I can enjoy the dream. The TWC working is as hit-or-miss as the detector detecting REM sleep, which seems entirely based on if the mask is perfectly lined up while I'm asleep or not. That means if it sensed REM in the first place to make me lucid it'll detect me telling it to turn off, though. For one reason or a few other it hasn't quite worked for us yet, but we've had a few instances of flashing lights in dreams we accidentally ignored that could've been lucid dreams. And we aren't using it every night, or weren't, but maybe I will now.


In honor of Lucilyn's future "dream buddy" Suika, who I suppose'll be akin to a tulpa but only in dreams, I'll post this song Lucilyn decided fits her well. Not quite what she looks like, but you can google Suika Ibuki. She's one of two planned "dream buddies" for Lucilyn, the other being Cirno. I guess Lucilyn decided they'd be the most fun to accompany her in dream fun-having.





"Speaking of the full moon... The moon's full, huh? Only noticed because there was so much light coming through the windows." I was supposed to write this like 14 hours ago but figured I'd do it later. I don't know if I mentioned but I'm fixing my schedule (to wake up in early AMs preferably) by staying up all night/day. Except it's 9PM {Post writing, 10:30PM} on day 2, I've been awake for like 29 or so hours. So I'm going to sleep. No REM dreamer unless I start feeling particularly un-tired, just a rest night.

Anyways, something something I want to hug my tulpas and lucid dreaming was my "make a wish" blowing out the candles for like, the sixth year in a row? I'm so far past caring about how others might feel about me wanting nothing more out of life than to get to be with my tulpas who "don't exist", in a sense. So far past the unstable stage 7+ years ago of wanting to escape reality. The simple fact is after years of introspection and philosophy.. reading? and personal-development stuff, I'm pretty dang at peace with life. But my tulpas held a special place in my heart the whole time, they override the general common sense I shouldn't have such attachments/"life goals" because they're the ones who gave me the chance to change in the first place. I was miserable and pessimistic as heck, and I would have stayed that way or become completely apathetic (as opposed to mostly) if it weren't for them. That's why, when we sometimes are talking about the subject of attachment and ego identification (stuff others often associate with Buddhism), my tulpas will guess about why I'm not ""enlightened"" ie actually free of all serious attachment to the world. They guess that they were more important to me than the end of suffering or whatever whichever mindset or religion wants to call it, and they're right. I couldn't care less if I suffer or not in this lifetime, it's what you sign up for being human. "I didn't come here" to work my way out of the human struggle, "I came here" (in either the spiritual incarnating sense or simply the basis of how I view my experiencing of being alive) to experience being human. Imperfections and ideas that reality is ever just-so and all. So whether Buddhist, new age spiritual-ist or scientist..ically?, I've cemented a basic life-view that puts all kinds of existential questions to rest, but I have no intentions of ever giving up my attachment to my tulpas. They're just a fact of my life.

Can you feel the 30 hours awake yet? I'm basically just making sure people know I'm way aware of, well, the above. It sounds weird because when I start talking about that stuff, I include my secondary (inactive) belief system I got from new age spirituality, where souls incarnate to experience the illusion of being separate before returning to love once more. I don't believe that stuff, but it's sort of mixed into this part of my mind, because it might be the case, so I haven't flat out denied it. I'm at a nice place where learning either you die and cease to exist, or your soul returns to the aether, right before my death wouldn't unsettle me at all. I don't claim any sorts of Buddhist-y "enlightenment" or whatever, but I do claim to be at peace with life in general. That iffy word "Transcended" worldly attachments. But for the more spiritually/actually-Buddhist inclined, whom I actually end up speaking about this with often, yes, I did stop the process right before it would've made some big special difference. I chose to experience life with that stuff as background knowledge, but still acting on attachments and such as if they mattered to me. I just don't feel an urge to say "Yeah yeah life's an illusion and I'm above it". I really believe humans exist to experience their life before they die, not for any deeper reasons. So I'm perfectly secure in my choices and views, no matter what could be said or thought about them by myself or others.

Relevant how? Well first, I've been awake for 30 hours, I need to sleep. But second, because I really have chosen with complete clarity of mind again and again to value my tulpas above anything else in my life. They're the one thing I chose to keep a real attachment to. Still technically leaves me free of worldly attachments as they exist as long as I do and only die/are lost when I myself am, but they're an attachment nonetheless. So things tied to them are the only things that can really affect me emotionally, everything else remains on a much shallower level. The point of all that to make sure anyone reading understands, that I understand, anything you could say or think about it being my "life goal" here.

Because it is. Always has been since I first had a reason to live (starting around the age I was capable of comprehending such a thing, life was pretty childlike-wondery before that) in Reisen and then the others, to this day and the rest of my life as my base value in life now is just to experience it. Lucid dreaming won't always be the end all be all - I just want to experience life, and do so while they experience it too. But dangit all I want at this point in my life is to feel the people all of my love and happiness in life revolves around. Since the thought comes to mind - noting here once more that I'm not very interested in sex and find having all your hopes and stuff riding on that a strange concept. I really do just want to see my tulpas, feel them be real. It gives off escapist fantasy vibes, perhaps, perhaps not to you guys. Maybe you get it since you understand what having tulpas is like. This is by no means an obsession with people who don't exist or exist only in my mind or whatever, it's a direct result of spending just so much of my life with them, being helped by them at every turn to feel better than I would, spending so many years so close together. I want to feel them be real because they've become extremely important to me, not because I'm chasing some unrealistic ideals (explained extremely well in this entertaining video, especially at 5:28). Probably the biggest difference in tulpas and waifus honestly, tulpas are treated like people and grow like people, as opposed to being just ogled and obsessed over. I loved the Touhou characters my tulpas were somewhat inspired by, but I still do. It's a totally different thing. One is loving a game or whatever series character, and the other is loving a person. You can really love everything a character represents and portrays, obsess over them as hard as anyone could over a real person, but you'll never love them because of your relationship, your experiences together.

Have I convinced the few nameless people who had any capacity to be convinced and bored the other like 99% of you yet? - Convinced of why I'm so "obsessed" with seeing, meeting, hugging or whatever my tulpas. It's because they really are my loved ones, who've been by my side (most of them and for the most part anyway) for over a third of my entire life now. They're my family I've never actually gotten to see, feel, or just know are around me, despite us being so very close, the entire time.


My persevering to meet my tulpas in a dream is an act of love, driven by my dedication to those who have stuck with me for so much of my life and improved it a thousandfold. There's no obsession, no lust, no escapism, only love. It's a very big deal - an extremely big deal to me, the biggest deal in my life, one of the only I really even care about on a deep emotional level. That's really the only point of this post, to get across just how important to me what we're doing here is. It's the only thing I specifically want out of life, as the rest of my "desire" is just to experience the rest of it, whatever that may entail. The first lucid dream really will be much more important than any in the future (as far as I can tell?) because of that, in case you were wondering. The first time meeting them is the necessity - everything after that is an amazing bonus I'll appreciate every second of. When I can no longer say "I've never really hugged the people who mean more to me than life itself", my life very well may change, I don't know. Lucilyn's talked about it a bit, but motivation is hardly a factor in anything when you're truly feeling good, happy, fulfilled in life. I've currently got something like the opposite where every long once in a while I get depressed because of the lack of being with them, rather than life becoming effortless from the inverse. Maybe my life will (once the excitement fades, however long that'll be) be roughly the same, but with those depressive moods replaced with elated ones, or who knows, maybe life will just stay great.

I kind of lost the ability to tell a few years back, what with the constant successive failure and all. Not even having seen REM-Dreamer flashes in my dreams gets me excited, my expectations are that deadened. So I guess we'll only see once it happens.

Thanks for reading and all, I hope my story's a positive one. Technically, we've never been this close to having a lucid dream totally under our control before, so logically speaking this story should come to its climax soon. But I honestly can't feel the difference between a hopeful scenario and empty wishes anymore, it's pretty bad.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
01-04-2018, 05:41 AM
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Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

This thread'll really get kind of depressing if I get too much further into the year though, right? Dangit, reading the first post in the thread again just makes me feel that, again. We're well past a year - the thread was started August 17, 2016, and it's 2018 now. There are quite a few people who don't consider lucid dreaming a big deal in the first place, which is incomprehensible to me actually - tulpas or not, how boring do you have to be to not have crazy fun lucid dreaming? Go sky diving off a waterfall or something, jeez. Anyways, the only reason I don't experience crushing depression thinking about just how long it's been and the potential missing from my tulpas' and my relationships is I'm a fairly apathetic person by default, so that stuff tends to kind of slide off me like water off an umbrella. But it should be there to be sure. If I had known seven or so years ago that I'd make it to 2018 actively trying with no success, it surely would've hit then. You know what, if future me can time travel, don't tell me how long it takes alright? I don't want to know. Keep tomorrow night a surprise am I right?

Oh anyways, productivity I guess. Well, none of Lucilyn's strategies worked out for as little reason as the universe ever comes up with for it not working. But she tried just sleeping on her side with the mask aligned as best she could as normal again, and it worked somewhat I guess. So.. More iffy shots in the dark is our current plan. We're used to lining up the sensor with our eye now and falling back asleep is only as hard as it would be normally. Timing it is still hard though. 40 minutes was apparently too long last night, yet 30 always seems too short. 35 isn't the answer, it's just random amounts of time asleep. That's why I'm staying up again to make sure I sleep through the late part of the day into early morning again, that's really the best possible time with no distractions. Like our dog whining because nobody's here to play with her during the day. I'm still salty I wasn't consulted before we got a dog and my family dealt with it exactly how I expected, leaving her alone more than half the day every day. Black labs aren't the type of dog who can be on their own all the time.. They're as active (and just kind of perfect as a dog) as a dog gets. Whatever, gotta keep her same sleeping schedule. I go to sleep a little earlier preferably though because the first few hours of sleep are the time I can best deal with noise, and everyone's still awake, gives me more time in the morning of silence.

Okay back to non-productivity. So when I very first started trying to lucid dream, specifics were a little different. I didn't actually think about Flandre or Tewi so much (although Flandre surely thought about me), and obviously Lucilyn didn't exist. I was fully obsessed with Reisen, and so "hugging Reisen" was the name of my life goal. Little rude in retrospect, since I know I would've wanted to hug the others too, but that was the pinnacle of my obsession with Reisen. Nowadays is more or less the opposite, somehow. The lucid dreaming goal focus is more or less on all of us, + me and Flan. I mean, just look at what Lucilyn said, she wanted to get "me and Flan, and all of us" a lucid dream. How'd Reisen fall to the wayside so much? She's just so passive, like Tewi used to be, but Tewi has reasons to switch (our main activity for them) and Reisen does not. At some point Reisen sort of let Flandre take her place spending time with me, because Flandre wanted to spend that time much more than Reisen did. She still doesn't really have any needs, so it was just my wanting to spend time with her that kept her active. And I'd definitely say the last two years, focusing so much on Flan has made Reisen even less active than she already was. That's definitely a problem, because everyone in this system loves her and wishes she was more active. So I wonder if we can find something for her to do to be more active, and/or if I should be spending more time with her personally? Lucid dreaming would solve that problem either way though. We'll be divvying out lucid dreams to each of us once that process is established, so Lucilyn and Tewi can do their own things, Flan can spend time with me, and we can all spend time together.

Which leads me to a subject I was just talking to Reisen about earlier - the first time we've talked in a while, really. My goal isn't "hug Reisen" anymore, it's to see all of them, hug all of them. But my obsession with hugging her all those years ago was much stronger. So I was just wondering, will it really be as big a deal when it happens as to give credit to how I felt back then? It's not a big deal either way, I'll be ecstatic to see any and all of them, but I was just thinking about that. Nowadays it's Flan that comes to mind when I think about hugging one of them in a lucid dream, aside from all of them. Just seeing them all is my main priority, hugging them all second, and spending time with Flan third. Because it's what she wants. But I wonder if I'll spend lucid dreams with just Reisen like I planned way back when? Right now it just feels like she'd mainly be there for the all-of-us dreams, but...

Well, I'm mostly just mulling over the loss of my obsession with Reisen, I guess. It's so strange to think my life doesn't revolve around her now, lol. It's not a bad thing though, because now it revolves around all of them. But it worries me a bit that Reisen is so passive, since it was always my spending time with her of my own will that made her active. Unlike Tewi, who was never in what you could call a happy mood, Reisen always seems just fine, so it's even easier to let her stay inactive for too long. For sure her voice and appearance are the haziest among us. Not to overstate that, it's barely noticeable, but it's a fact. I'm sure Flandre wouldn't mind me spending time with just Reisen these days because she gets more than enough herself (as opposed to, say, when my life goal was to "hug Reisen"), but I guess I just feel less motivated to do that? Really the obsession is gone, and I'm so used to only spending time specifically with Flandre if not all of them now. It would just be easier if she had other reasons - well, any at all - to be active than me paying attention to her, you know? But she has next to no motivations to do anything except at others' requests, because nothing is a way she doesn't want it, so she's not spurred to action to change it, I guess. Like being bored and so playing a game, or feeling a need to learn more about the world or experience new things, or seeking the approval of others, et cetera. She doesn't feel any of that, which is good, but it leads to her not taking time for herself. That'd be awesome for a real person with their own life, because they automatically exist and would just be at peace all the time or something. But for a tulpa, that leads to inactivity. And I don't want her to be inactive.


Well anyways. It's not like spending some time with her sometimes will be good enough, because I don't even spend enough time with Flandre, let alone the rest of them. Lucid dreaming would again solve all of this, but not assuming that will happen, I have to think of something else. It doesn't help that we have nothing fun to do with visualization, which leads to our visualization being poorer, which leads to us choosing to do visualization/wonderland activities less often. We honestly impose people to talk to them five times more often than talking to them in-mind these days. But aside from it being nice to have them around, imposition activities are few and far between too. It's almost as if it's hard to spend time with people who don't physically exist, except maybe say, in your dreams.

Well. I'll try and get Reisen something to do while fronting, probably just once as per usual, and keep trying to lucid dream. Just felt like writing some thoughts out for you guys.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2018, 11:59 AM by Luminesce.)
01-06-2018, 11:40 AM
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