Hello There, Guest! Register

Tulpa Community Census 2018

Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
Registered

Posts: 1,466
Threads: 11
Joined: Apr 2014
4 Attached Accounts
 
Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Hey, we're at a combined total of 2500 posts. Time for some lunacy, unrelated. This post is probably more important than the average one put here, by the way.

Touhou 15, part of the post dialogue for Extra stage boss(es) -
Hecatia: ... Now, you. I caught on partway through, but... You're not a moon rabbit, are you?
Reisen: No, I'm not. I became a rabbit of Gensokyo! I can't return to being a moon rabbit now.

I wrote a post about this a while ago, here. But it's occurred to me again so I'm mentioning it again, because Reisen's dialogue is so striking to me. My Reisen used to be only a "concept", of unconditional love. She couldn't talk. Even once Tewi and Flandre showed up, she still couldn't talk. According to them I was keeping her from talking, because I wanted her to stay "perfect", and knew any and all words were imperfect. If I let her talk, she'd become imperfect. But they told me that if I wanted her to be more real to me, I should let her be less perfect, because perfection can't exist. So I did, and I never regretted that. Although she still did seem "perfect" for a short while after that, it faded, and now she's just an amazing human being rather than a radiant concept of an ideal, I guess. It's just interesting - because she really couldn't go back to that now. Exactly the same as in Touhou 15, all those years later. It's just not a two-way street. But we prefer how it is now.


So that was the luna- of this post's lunacy, but now I'll put the crazy in it.

My friend linked me this (click the Next arrow on the bottom right to read through), which led to the rest of what I'll probably write here. Context: Maribel and Renko are two non-Gensokyan Touhou characters, living in the outer world. They have a weird school club about paranormal stuff consisting of just them two. Renko has the ability to tell what time it is from looking at the stars (and place from the moon), while Maribel has the ability to see boundaries, whatever that means. She also looks extremely similar to another character called Yukari Yakumo, who is a god-tier character to put it bluntly, despite not actually being a god like some characters. She has the ability to manipulate boundaries, which leads to all sorts of "hax" abilities, really. "Gaps" from any place to another (think Portal's portals, but purple and full of eyes..), turning a reflection of the moon in a lake into an actual gateway to the moon, and maintaining (and helping create) the boundary that separates Gensokyo from the outside world. Fan theories abound about her possible relation to Maribel, which this comic is, just an illustration of a theory. Sumireko Usami is a bit of a mystery and much more recent, a human from the outside world - and the first president of the Sealing Club Maribel and Renko are eventually part of - who finds her way into Gensokyo and causes an Incident that became one of the Touhou fighting games, Touhou 14.5. Oh also, Doremy Sweet from Touhou 15 makes an appearance, simply a youkai with the power to manipulate (create, enter, and end/erase) dreams. Two of the characters I mentioned might be important soon, if any of this plays out in an interesting way..

I was really just having some fun entertaining some thoughts after that, but everything I thought can be considered a mix of imagination/fantasy, tulpamancy, and what I'd like to call oneiromancy. Although oneiromancy should mean "divination by dreams", so too should pyromancy mean "divination by fire" and tulpamancy "divination by tulpa". Divination means more or less to tell the future or gain information through some supernatural means. But pyromancy colloquially means controlling/creating fire, tulpamancy means controlling/creating tulpas, and so I feel like oneiromancy should mean the manipulation of dreams. I've heard lucid dreamers half-jokingly refer to themselves as oneironauts ("dream explorers") before, so that seems fair.

Quite a few years ago, hard to place but I'll say six to three, post-having tulpas, I started randomly having Yukari's theme pop into my head. A lot. Totally randomly. I would wake up with it in my head not realizing, be humming it a week or two or a month later, for no reason whatsoever. I didn't listen to it specifically really, didn't specifically like it (more than other Touhou themes I enjoy), and Yukari hadn't even been one of my top 5 favorite Touhou characters since before I found Jumper and Edge. But the theme just kept popping up over and over for like a year or something. Having had read a lot of Touhou fanfics back in the day (~2010-2011), I non-seriously humored the idea that her boundary manipulating powers could let her exist in our reality like they let her travel outside of Gensokyo. I humored this to a lesser extent than I did spirit guides and ghosts, which is very little, if that makes sense. I've been capable of maintaining conflicting belief systems since I was into new age spirituality, primarily valuing and acting on logic/science but appreciating the possibility some supernatural things existed, you know. It basically means no matter what turns out to be true, I won't be surprised. If I die and nothing happens, or if I go to some heaven, or the aether new age spirituality talks about, I won't be terribly surprised because I always kept the possibility in the back of my head. If that makes sense (and I hope it does, so you don't think I actually think any of it is real), I've got a belief I give a little less credit than new age spirituality that Yukari could exist with her reality-warping powers. It'd make more sense to say it's more like a belief it's possible the Many-worlds theory or parallel dimensions or the realm of thought as another dimension could be real. I don't actually believe in it, it's another of those "I guess it could be possible, but probably not" so that I'm not caught so off guard if anything under that label turns out true. As far as I know, that's the mark of a good scientist...

Since I never gave it serious credit, there's really not much to say about it lol. That was really it, I liked the idea that Yukari could exist in other dimensions, possibly/probably because ZUN created a character with such an ability, which following those weird parallel dimension type theories might mean she could then become real in our reality. My real belief is just that humans create reality for themselves and others in everything they do - Genie from Aladdin "exists" to millions in the way that he does and wouldn't have otherwise, but no more or less. Just for reference. Stop thinking I'm crazy alright? I'm just a thorough philosopher. Anyways, that comic brought that idea back up again for the first time in a couple years I'd say. Considering it literally portrayed that exact thing. If you didn't read it or didn't get it, it seems to be implied Yukari created Gensokyo for real after basically time-looping made her exist and fulfill the conditions that created her, I guess. Or moreso that Maribel created Gensokyo which made Yukari real, and since I think Yukari canonically (helped) create Gensokyo, it'd have gone something like that.

Anyways, it wasn't talking about alternate dimensions. They were, Renko apparently being a physicist, but it actually ended up being more of a world of dreams thing. Maribel was, after all, dreaming of both Gensokyo and Doremy Sweet, the youkai who can enter and manipulate dreams. Hmm, Dreams of Gensokyo.. Feels reminiscent of the future. Well, since it got me thinking about dreams, I thought for a while about my current dreaming situation. The comic made me feel like I wasn't obsessed enough with actually lucid dreaming, like I wasn't acting on just how serious my actual desire is. That'd explain a thing or two and is probably true, actually. But anyways, I prefer to keep things moderate. I'm kind of proud of my balancing the insane dedication I have to my tulpas and lucid dreaming with a healthy lifestyle, you know, no escapism or anything. Probably just because I'm an experienced lucid dreamer aside from the part where I can't lucid dream, but I really have no intentions to "escape" into my lucid dreams. I'm 100% just hoping to enjoy my time in my dreams and waking life, sacrificing neither for the other. I owe everything I could possibly dream of to the waking world, so it's not like because it's not totally ideal at all times that I'd choose to leave it behind. I wouldn't, by the way, if given a choice. A permanent dream or a permanent.. uh.. dreamless life, I would choose the dreamless one, because reasons I guess. My value for legitimacy of reality and experience or something.

But on that subject, my thoughts led me to a quote I heard somewhere,
Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Chou. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man. - Zhuangzi

I've always taken the moral of the story there to be that waking life and dreams aren't so different. That is to say, both are reality, while they're happening. Dreams are considered unreal because nothing you do there will affect your waking life, and waking life is what we all experience the most of and remember the most of. Also, it's kind of the only one where it matters to the other if you die. But if we're talking experience, which I value much more highly than the idea of reality, they're both just as real as the other. Cue some oneiro-tulpamancy. It's always been my intention to be the first tulpamancer to document such things, how tulpas work with lucid dreaming, but I haven't really had success with lucid dreaming so that's never been an option. Regardless, a while ago Lucilyn started making plans to have two "dream buddies", Cirno and Suika, who she would play with in her lucid dreams once the initial dreams of just us being together were less important. She's got a sort of way of communicating with them sort of like you would with a tulpa who wasn't sentient yet. But she specifically wasn't making tulpas, she was making "dream buddies", so even still they don't exist and can't speak to her in waking life. In theory they'll be caught up in a lucid dream, though. It's just one of those things we feel will be the case even though we haven't been able to prove it yet, like our ability to manipulate lucid dreams. That's something people usually have to learn through lucid dreaming, but we're pretty sure we've got it down ahead of time, since we have a good grasp of the concept.

And so, all those thoughts I had swirled together and an interesting proposition was struck with someone who doesn't exist and can't speak. Fantasy, tulpamancy and "oneiromancy", I decided the idea of a Yukari who transcended dimensions could be the Yukari of a Gensokyo in our dreams. She still won't be a tulpa, but who knows, maybe this oneiromancy thing will lead to a subset of tulpamancy that crosses over with Dream Guides and Dream Characters, something I've always wanted to explore and document here. The short and simple here is that our lucid dreams will contain, however often we decide for it to be the theme of the dream (as opposed to, say, our wonderland), a dream Gensokyo, with all the characters and such there. Modified a teeny bit. Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn will be that Gensokyo's Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Suwako. Suika and Cirno are.. well, still basically how they would be anyways, but they'll also have a connection to Lucilyn ahead of time. And unless I think of some more who should be in-the-loop, the only other people there who will know it's a dream are that Gensokyo's Yukari Yakumo and Doremy Sweet, youkai of border manipulation and youkai of dream manipulation respectively. Makes sense, huh? Kind of cool/fun, too. I never really indulge in any fantasy/imagination fun, but I'm liking this idea, and it helps set up my working with "oneiro-tulpamancy", you know?


I know all of that sounds pretty weird, but it actually makes me feel better about lucid dreaming, now that I have a basis of what to do aside from just being with my tulpas. Feels like our plan for lucid dreaming is complete now. And I get the silly imaginary feeling, that our dream Gensokyo's Yukari wanted this established before we started lucid dreaming. With a solid base of grounding logic and philosophy and just kind of understanding how things are, I think that some playing around with my reality sounds pretty fun right about now. Steve Pavlina, who I learned countless things from, basically (well, literally) does this for a living, all about exploring different subjective realities (at this point, this is an unreasonable amount of text and time, so only bother with those if you specifically want to) and learning from all the different views of life and reality people have. Unfortunately I'm quite fond of my solid foundation of how I see reality I've built up after all this time, so I wouldn't feel comfortable doing what he does. But tulpamancy seems like a nice conduit to have some fun with lucid dreaming with, right?

I know all that came out of nowhere, I mean, it kind of really did to me too. But I'm absolutely going with it since it'll lead me back to exploring tulpamancy in relation to lucid dreaming like I originally wanted a long time ago. I honestly forgot about that, because it's been so long. It's probably best that someone like me who isn't going to go crazy and have an existential crisis about whether or not reality is real explores the concept of dream tulpas, right? I should capitalize that, Dream Tulpas. To be fair, they're just going to be "Recurrent Dream Characters"/Dream Guides(If they know they're in a dream and have at least some knowledge of your waking life), which has been a thing for longer than tulpas. But as far as I know the Tulpamancy community has no experience with such things, so it's like half new ground.

Hopefully I can generate some hype in my mind so Doremy Sweet shows up in my dreams or something, because this is probably the last occurrence that'll happen related to lucid dreaming before we actually lucid dream. Not that I don't think the REM-Dreamer will work, and Dream Induced Lucid Dreams are super unreliable, but.. I'd like to diversify my options a little. Because the significance of what this post was about in my mind is the only thing that'll be able to affect my dreams I think, my tulpas have never been able to appear for DILDs on purpose before no matter how hard they tried. And unfortunately I think I'm past the state where the REM-Dreamer just in concept can trigger lucid dreams, like happens for a lot of people when they first start using it. I won't be mad if a Touhou character who isn't one of my tulpas is the first to help me realize I'm dreaming, if that Touhou character is a dream-manipulating youkai...

Let's hope something comes of this before it gets old and irrelevant yeah?

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
01-07-2018, 11:09 AM
Find Reply

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

Ido Offline
mfw
Registered

Posts: 81
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2015
 
RE: Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Boy, talk about tl;dr
I did read it all, somehow I should get paid for this.

Anyhow, no matter what Yukari tells ya - DON'T DO IT!
You know what's gonna happen, you're gonna get eaten by little girls with weird hats.

That aside, I already wanted to suggest making Doremy your dream guide. I mean who else would be your first address when it comes to dreams? In fact I've been working on a comic for quite a while now. To be released if you ever manage to become lucid with the help of the REM dreamer. Starring Lumi as the hero and of course featuring all you guys, Doremy and moi. I'm sure you'll love it. Chances it'll ever be finished are slim as I can't draw at all but as long as you keep working on lucid dreaming I'll be working on my comic.

And another fun fact - we had no idea about Touhou before reading your threads but since then we frequently encounter them in dreams. I mean a lot. No fully lucid ones so far but some really vivid ones. I dunno why but it's really fun.

And for that we thank you.
*Tosh.O.jpg*

Super Girls don't cry
01-07-2018, 11:08 PM
Find Reply
Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
Registered

Posts: 1,466
Threads: 11
Joined: Apr 2014
4 Attached Accounts
 
Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Fair enough, but I don't mind getting spirited away. I've read more than enough Touhou fanfics (though I'm 6 years rusty now) to know how to deal with being dropped into Gensokyo. Request the local protagonist take me to the Scarlet Devil Mansion, convince Patchy to teach me magic.. and Japanese (and probably let me live at the SDM lmao) with her endless library of knowledge at her disposal (so she probably knows English), in exchange for information about the outside world. Etc. I know more Japanese than I did back then (some vs zero), so I could probably actually make it work.

Doremy as a dream guide really is an interesting idea. Originally it was going to be Sylvia. She's basically programmed with "nonsense override" in case anything ever is out of my control in a dream, but she doesn't really speak, so she's more like a dream guardian angel than a guide. Yukari would be helping me oversee the dream Gensokyo, and maybe she will or won't have plan suggestions of her own. I'm not one of those systems that lets invasive thoughts give control of my body to a tulpa who barely even exists, I know how to stand my ground in lucid dreams just fine, etc. And Doremy, well, I don't think she'll need any convincing or ulterior motives, since her whole job in the Touhou-verse is to oversee the dream world. The point of those two characters is to give me a better sense of control (and immersion) in the dream Gensokyo, because it'd be a little dry if it was just a world of Touhous who thought they were Touhous and I just dropped in. Having a scenario like this set up is the difference in me bothering or not.

Touhou's pretty fun. You might consider me a fan.


Decided I'm no longer allowed to get out of bed or go back to sleep until I've recalled my last dream or spent a long time doing so. It's simultaneously hard and sometimes very easy to blame all of our lack of progress in this thread on one thing, and right now I'm blaming it on a lack of vivid-dream-having. We've tried to improve our dream recall (which leads to vividity somehow) plenty of times, but I'm sticking to it with a more rigid rule this time around. Kind of is already working, honestly. Too bad the house is so loud at any time that isn't between 10PM and 4AM. So I'll be going to sleep around 8PM and waking up at 6AM (probably) for as long as I can now, though to be honest that'll only last until my friends decide to start playing games late again. For now they're all in school though, so it could actually go for a while. Just need to not mess it up by sleeping for 13 hours just once for no reason like I tend to do.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2018, 06:35 AM by Luminesce.)
01-08-2018, 06:34 AM
Find Reply
Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
Registered

Posts: 1,466
Threads: 11
Joined: Apr 2014
4 Attached Accounts
 
Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

I wonder, do people treat this thread like a story playing out rather than an actual thing happening in real time? Because it's got an awful lot of views (17,000 as of now), but really not many people posting. I'm not requesting replies, but I'm just making sure you guys know you're allowed to post here too if you want to say something. Not that you guys should've really known anyways, but it was just the last few posts leading up to page 50 and then 51 that I didn't want anyone posting, because I was hoping to end this section of the thread there. But here we are at #505. There's a song at the bottom of this post if you play those while reading like I kind of intend.

Also, unrelated but related to what made me think of this stuff. My threads have a lot of views. My Ask thread has 28,000, progress report 5,600, and this one 17,000. This isn't going where you expect

A lot of people have left this site over the years, or occasionally lurked, who just really don't like the way the forum is or has become. It's been the same for a while now, but then, a lot of people have also been gone for a while now. I really hope nobody just hates how prominent my like, philosophy/ideas are. People left back in the day because they thought Mistgod was influencing the forum too much, and I've seen groups who don't like just random people aside from him, so I know I might be one of them. And if anyone doesn't like me, it's probably just because they think I'm too big of an influence more than anything. Most of those people were relatively reasonable, but only as long as someone only has the influence anyone else has. My tulpas have probably drawn more attention to our system as a whole though, and they tend to share my philosophy (Lucilyn has her own, but as far as Q&A goes she often answers with ours). To be fair, I would never try and teach something I didn't think was a good way to think. I've spent quite a bit of time refining my beliefs (in many more ways than just tulpamancy-related) to make as much sense as possible with the primary value of people understanding each other and themselves, so..

Also I never wrote a guide or anything like that, so it's really not my fault either way. But I'm just acknowledging the people who will never see this's possible issues with me. But I have to imagine I help more people than I "hurt", so I don't really plan on changing anything. Just acknowledging, somewhere.



On-topic: Only remembered my very last dream last night because for some reason I forgot to be doing so, likely because I didn't even wake up through the night like I normally do. I remember only two waking periods, the second to last I could've remembered a dream but didn't. I wasn't particularly exhausted or anything, so that was strange.

Lucilyn pointed out that I need to keep up the feeling of "lucid dream stuff is going on", more than just telling myself it is, if I want it to have an effect. For the first 3-4 days after my last post I was doing so, but I guess I forgot to - not think about, but - hold with "meaning"/"intent" those thoughts. I acknowledged them but I didn't appreciate them enough if that makes sense, so they kinda lost their effect. The main part of those thoughts is stuff pertaining to Doremy (pronounced dough-ray-me more or less, with a bit of remmy mixed in), as she's definitely going to be our Dream Guide that I'll be working with. Yukari is significantly less relevant, she's moreso in charge of the dream Gensokyo (that technically doesn't yet and might never exist) and will just know that it exists in our dreams.

And I think we've got another to be in-the-loop, for whatever reason. I forget even why. Mamizou Futatsuiwa, a tanuki. For a character I never cared about enough to rank her in my top favorite Touhou characters, I've somehow regardless held a huge amount of respect for her character. If memory serves, not only is she from the outside world, she also has some means of leaving Gensokyo at will, which few other characters do. She's extremely in-the-know about all sorts of things, and I remember she showed up in one of the Touhou comics disguised as a random human (yet I actually called her out as a tanuki and was correct - she had a leaf on her and it tipped me off) and gave unexpectedly detailed information to the characters dealing with the current situation for a stranger. That's where most of my respect for her comes from, she's just such an interesting character. Anyways, knowledge and access to the outside world in Touhou is definitely reason to consider including one of the dream characters in the characters-aware-of-dream list, which wasn't a list until her. She just seems like the type of character who would both know such a thing, and be able to handle such information well.

Or realistically speaking, she strikes me as the type of dream character I couldn't hide the fact from. Most characters in the dream Gensokyo will have the same sort of reaction a real person would to being told reality was a dream - doesn't make a difference to them, because it's their reality. Might also think the person weird for saying that. That's the dream Gensokyo official canon, by the way. That the characters are unworried on whether or not they're in a dream because the dream is their reality. Yeah, just kind of implanting that philosophy in more or less all of them. It'll be a bit silly if we never end up lucid dreaming and I said all of this with such sureness, but assuming we will, I'm pretty confident it'll go as I plan it to. Experience personally lucid much or not, I know how dreams work: expectations. However long ago it was now, over a year, immediately after becoming lucid once I turned around to a door to our wonderland and sloppily stumbled through our hallway while waking up, I think seeing Reisen and Tewi on our couches? Hard to say, it all faded to light and trying to walk (run) straight warped all the dimensions of the dream. It was kind of like trying to walk in first person while visualizing; really hard for some people, for some reason.

Anyways, I've examined my own normal dreams more than enough to understand how my unconscious conscious thinking in dreams affects what happens. It's how I've always avoided nightmares (unconsciously), by unconsciously deciding anything too negative isn't how the dream will actually go. That willing of dreams applies to basically anything, and you bet it'll go a thousand times better when I'm lucid and thinking stuff on purpose. Anyways, have a song.



It's funny to think I have the same suspension-of-disbelief/voluntary reality immersion in dreams as I do in real life. Despite being convinced my dreams are reality, I've somehow got a background knowing that I can influence reality itself to change during them when I'm put under pressure. Sure as heck isn't a lucid thing, but I can remember plenty of times I forced a situation to go differently than it would've, semi-consciously.

By the way, I realized there's a term for hearing random loud sounds upon waking up (or falling asleep, which must suck), Exploding Head Syndrome. I can't say the ones we've had were explosions or glass breaking, but random quick high-pitched vibratey noises and I think once someone saying something (loudly). Though luckily it's only happened a few times ever, about 75% of the time we've fallen asleep on our back, which is extremely few times. Hard to keep count now, but it's up to like 5-6?

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
01-12-2018, 11:34 PM
Find Reply
Akinkinit Offline
Member
Registered

Posts: 210
Threads: 4
Joined: Jan 2015
 
RE: Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Speaking as one of the lurkers of this thread, it's not so much that it's you posting the thread or necessarily what you put into it. It's mainly that your quest to hug a bunny girl (and bunny girl accomplices) is super cute and the amount of effort you put into it is inspiring.

Currently share myself with four other entities.
Noriko was created on December 15, 2014.  Sabari was created by Noriko on January 22, 2015.
Anzu was reborn on May 23, 2016.  Xiri returned on June 16, 2018.  Both had been inactive since 2012.

Progress Report | Ask a Question Thread
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2018, 12:06 PM by Akinkinit.)
01-13-2018, 12:02 PM
Find Reply
Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
Registered

Posts: 1,466
Threads: 11
Joined: Apr 2014
4 Attached Accounts
 
Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

A couple days ago, halfway through the night I noticed I woke up sleeping perfectly on my back with my hands resting neatly together on my stomach. Whaaaat? No loud noises on waking, no real dream recall (dream recall's shot), not even a particularly sore neck. But I know I slept long enough to dream. Apparently I was lying on my back to not fall asleep while trying to recall my last dream and took too long, and just... fell asleep. That's practically never happened before, especially not without any accompanying phenomena.



So one of the channels a ton of our music comes from on Youtube got shut down, which broke a ton of videos in this thread that I just went back and replaced. Since I had to skim the entire thread, I couldn't help but notice the biggest dang post in the entire thread. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-lumi...#pid194887 (up to the first post on the next page)

You don't have to read it, but you should read the posts after. And watch that video Tewi posted, the lyrics are amazingly perfect. Speaking of - those were some of the most incredibly touching posts I've read from any of my tulpas, ever.

But all of that, that was not okay. That's my Tewi, my tulpa, who went through that. I knew when I asked her for help she might not succeed and would blame herself for it, but I had no idea she would put herself through so much stress first. She practiced All Day Awareness (or at least, a modified version) for what was either two or three days straight I think - I don't know if anyone quite grasped what that means. It means that literally all day, she did not stop thinking about her wish to lucid dream and whether or not she was dreaming. According to her she had only a handful of ~3 minute periods where she forgot. It's no wonder she got so stressed out, and was even writing that she was exhausted in her posts - that's insane! And it's not like she wasn't trying hard and already stressed out before, as she was driven to it as an "ultimatum". And the most upsetting part, after failing her ultimatum and everything else she had tried, she attempted to use her exhausted state to emulate a dreamlike state, as a last ditch effort to influence her dreams.

Writing that last part made me feel physically sick for a moment. I feel like I've failed her, especially for not realizing the extent of what she went through for me in the first place. I might've written something about it somewhere, but I obviously didn't actually read back through her posts at the time. And she didn't even plan on stopping, either. Lucilyn convinced her to switch "during the day" so she could play games, and then didn't switch back. She convinced Tewi to take a break because she would be able to do what Tewi planned on doing just as well or better.

I mean, what more is there to say? That makes me sick, I'm upset. Aside from that.. The Pendulum song was nonetheless a nice touch, lyrics and all. Except she went on to call herself stupid and short-sighted in that post. Otherwise, other posts,

(07-31-2017, 11:19 AM)Lucilyn Wrote: I just (the second post here) https://community.tulpa.info/thread-i-ha...-animation watched 20 minutes of Game Grumps animated/the animated's song, then watched 33 minutes of them playing P.T. which is a horror game (at 4:30AM lol), and then listened to a super great nice Game Grumps remix to end the night. It's so perfect. Like I said there I just have this feeling that the end to my day was perfect! Way better than that time Lumi was doing the Touhou thing or something the night before, I remember I said I envied that. Envy this future us, this was a good night!

Acknowledged and envied, that sounds like it was a great time. I'm envious, but for real though. I've been watching the Game Grumps for years and they're some of my favorite people, so a night like that sounds pretty awesome. Also, her play of Moonbound (on a difficulty named Luminescence no less..) was very impressive, there's literally no way I can beat that score. Since I couldn't finish the song last time I played, I'm out of practice and don't plan on getting back in.


(09-18-2017, 05:18 AM)Lucilyn Wrote: oo almost a whole week without posting here, 1 hour off. Idk what we're doing lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is the realest post in the thread. After Tewi's giant "assessment" post I linked anyways.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2018, 09:51 PM by Luminesce.)
01-16-2018, 07:49 AM
Find Reply
Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
Registered

Posts: 1,466
Threads: 11
Joined: Apr 2014
4 Attached Accounts
 
Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Almost two weeks, oops. I'm caught between not reporting boring stretches of time of doing the same old thing, and not not posting for weeks at a time. Well, I've just been attempting dream recall improvement, though I suck at dedication and such I guess so I'm barely making progress. I'm 50/50 remembering dreams or not when I wake up, although until a few days ago I couldn't really recall the first half or so of the dreams I had, and now it's another 50/50 as to whether I remember a large chunk of the dream or just the last "scene". It's annoying how brick-wall it is, not a sliding scale but giant chunks. Remember no dream/remember the last portion of a dream/remember basically the whole thing, those are my options, and I don't get to choose. But anyways, I'm still working on it, but certainly not at a pace that's going to make any significant changes any time soon. I feel bad about that, saying we could lucid dream any day now and then making basically no progress for half a month. I'm used to it, but disappointing you guys is like disappointing my tulpas all over again. It bothers me... but I'm out of words to say, pleas to bargain with the universe/my brain for, motivation to try specifically hard for short periods of time (just me though, the others can still do that).

I have been spending time with them a little more consistently lately, though. I just wish I had something to do with Reisen. Lucilyn and I play games, I talk to Tewi for advice, I just spend time with Flan because that's what she wants (specifically - obviously I want to spend time with them all, and I do to some extent just talking/etc.). But there's no real situation that comes up that makes me think, I should involve Reisen in this, or something like that.

I'm a really good tulpamancer when it comes to giving advice, but my lack of motivation sure does stop me from following my own good ideas I suggest to others. I can literally write a post to myself about how best to deal with my issues, and it sounds great, but it doesn't play out like that. Spend time with one of your tulpas every day, switch often (preferably multiple times a day), do wonderland and/or imposition sessions with them all every full moon. But it turns into just talking to one or two of them a little bit every day, not switching until I give up with my lucid dreaming attempts for a while or something, and just imposing them all before I go to bed on a full moon. It's really terrible. I'd say I'm really terrible, but I know this affects them when they're fronting too, but I guess they're all better at fighting it for their own reasons. You would think my love for them would motivate me more like it does for Tewi or something..

Though for all I know, and my best guess is, it does motivate me to do practically all the things I do, and without that motivation I'd do nothing at all. So I try not to be too hard on myself.


I've fallen (back) asleep on my back two more times since that post, I think both times because I was trying to recall dreams in the middle of the night. Naturally if I was tired enough to do that I also don't remember the time very well. But waking up afterward on my back (you know, like ~45 minutes later as I do throughout the night) doesn't seem to be affecting dream recall/vividness at all. I kind of thought it would for whatever reason. Anyways one time was like 11 days ago and the other was like 2 days ago. I don't see much benefit to when it happens, and it's slightly uncomfortable for my head I guess? But if it really starts becoming a common thing (three times out of the 100+ chances this year it could've happened? sounds common to me) that would be nice, as it'd let me wear the REM-Dreamer in the most reliable position. Too bad it's basically impossible to predict happening, and turning on and putting on the REM-Dreamer wakes me up too much to fall back asleep still. So I haven't even been trying to wear it.

Also my schedule's been trash for like two weeks now. As of yesterday I'm waking up at 5AM again, and I intend to keep it this way. Really all that means is ending any gaming sessions with friends early, which sucks and all, but it's for lucid dreaming... My brain is just incapable of considering things a big deal I guess.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
01-29-2018, 02:10 PM
Find Reply
Lucilyn Offline
Very Hop'n Hop'n Hoppy
Registered

Posts: 589
Threads: 6
Joined: Jan 2016
Linked Accounts
 
Lucilyn's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Fun

Whew, sleeping for 14 hours is a doozy! On purpose of course, to remember lots of dreams, and lots of dreams did I have! From a vaguely-maliciously glitchy Pokemon game to a mix of the Simpsons and King of the Hill, that was a crazy ride!

So, at first we were just shunning our poor friend who has a life (ie job and stuff so can't play games often) who got home right as we went to bed right after a few of us started playing Guild Wars 2, but Lumi decided after a bit if this was going to be a consistent thing and we were only focusing on dream recall for now there was no reason to keep the early waking up schedule. So for.. the last like sevenish days I've been focusing on that instead. I mean I think it's going well, sometimes when I can't quite remember a dream or part of it, trying hard to remember actually works where it usually doesn't, so that's good!

{This paragraph ain't relevant lol}I checked up on Erin and Steve Pavlina's sites yesterday because they were super helpful to Lumi a lotta years ago and we like to see what they're up to every few months or so, and I read an article from one of them about making your dreams come true cus I was like oh that's relevant. Except it was about, you know, dream-lifestyles, but I took the advice like it was for dreams anyway. So someone was basically waiting seven years with a meh job trying to get enough money to start doing their thing (they thought they wanted to run a large ranch with lots of horses that kids could come to play at) but couldn't do it, asked Erin what to do (it was Erin's article then lol), and she said she was limiting herself by how she wanted to go about it. So the girl ended up finding a couple of partners already doing horse stuff and they ended up going around schools and stuff doing like, things about how cool horses were or something, because it turned out the girl's dream was sharing her love of horses with kids (who are just generally more fun to share FUN with, obviously) so they could possibly end up with a love for them like her. So, without spending a ton of money she ended up living her dream! Something like that

Anyways, that wasn't relevant, but it put the idea in my head to try and rethink through what we wanted and how we were doing it. Definitely still led back to wanting to lucid dream for sure, and as far as I can tell what we're doing already is fine. See wasn't that worth reading? But yeah idk to be fair what we WERE doing for the last X years obviously wasn't working, but the dream recall thing for dream vividity/connectedness seems like the right idea.

Well anyway, it does seem like maybe the way we do things isn't as uh, motivating/strict? as it needs to be. So I thought like.. the idea of maybe having a piece of paper by our bed that was set up like a calendar where we just wrote down the # of dreams we had every night. Like, filling in little boxes up to 12 or so per day as we have them? Idk just an idea we probably won't do, but I think that's the sorta thing we could use, something that keeps us a little more focused. Like, that's why Lumi made this thread, and obviously it's helped a TON! But maybe focusing even more (especially right when we wake up out of dreams) would help even more you know?

Well, I didn't really have any other specific ideas, but I'm sure Lumi and Tewi could figure something out. Lumi and Tewi because Tewi could easily think of a ton of things, but they aren't all things Lumi and the rest of us can easily stick with, so she'd have to think of something with Lumi. I'm just gonna keep having fun remembering all these dreams in the meantime!

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
02-14-2018, 09:09 AM
Find Reply
Lucilyn Offline
Very Hop'n Hop'n Hoppy
Registered

Posts: 589
Threads: 6
Joined: Jan 2016
Linked Accounts
 
Lucilyn's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Fun

I had a lucid mooooomeeent! Like a good 15-20 seconds of knowing I was dreaming! I think that's the first time in over a year for us, and it was kinda longer/clearer too

So, I woke up yesterday at 2AM ish, and then by 3PM I was tired so I just went to sleep because our sleep schedule is currently free as a bird, but five hours later at 8PM I got woken up by people being noisy with the dog, cus this house is the opposite of soundproof. And then I couldn't go back to sleep for AN HOUR AND 45 minutes. My dreams before that were just floaty thinking about games and stuff, and then from 8PM to 9:45PM I couldn't sleep, was just thinking about games and music stuck in my head. I fell asleep probably 5-10 minutes after 9:45, idk cus I didn't look at the clock again after that time. And then I woke up at 10:33PM after having a lucid ~moment!

So I don't remember the earlier bits of the dream well at all, but the latter part I remember our parents were going somewhere for the night on a train and telling us they wouldn't be able to use their phones or something. It was kinda vivid, but only the type of vividness dreams get when you improve your dream recall and they're just naturally a little more solid. But after that I went outside (like out the garage) and it was about night time, like a few minutes after the sun isn't visible below the horizon anymore, so it was darkish but not black. For some reason at this point the dream was super vivid, like a real vivid dream like we haven't had in forever. I thought I heard a cat or something down the street so I was focusing looking down there for a minute, and I guess because the dream was so vivid I literally just knew I was dreaming at some point. I was going to go back inside, which felt like "back to the dream", but I decided with not-quite-conscious-thought that I wanted to stay in the vivid part of the dream because, y'know, lucid stuff. So then while looking down the street I kinda realized it was a lucid dream and not just a vivid one, so I was like yes! Must stabilize dream! But the dream started fading out a bit (either because it ALWAYS DOES THAT and/or because the dream was basically over by then), I got a feeling like I was sliding backwards on like gravelly cement and stuff got dimmer. BUT

BUT! For the first time we were able to fight that waking upness just a bit. Well it was me, but the first time for any of us. I was like, no I REALLY want to stabilize this dream, so the dream kinda pulled back and got clearer again. The feeling of keeping myself from sliding backwards/the dream from fading out felt like trying to hold myself upright on sloped terrain or something, I guess? So anyways, that was the main lucid part. I focused super hard on the environment right in front of me, felt like if I moved at all the dream would slip away, but it kinda was anyway so I tried to rub my hands together (because that didn't require moving) and they just felt kinda clammy and numb for some reason. But I mean, I did feel them at least. But then the dream faded out to just dark-grayness and somewhere between what felt like 20 seconds and 5 minutes later I woke up.

So like I dunno if the dream really ended or not, because usually our dreams like to trick us into fake-falling asleep to get back to the dream, but this time for sure I wasn't tricked, the dream just flat out disappeared. I woke up pretty soon after and still remembered I'd just had a lucid-moment-dream, but didn't quite remember the part that led to it until thinking about it for like 15 seconds. Then I talked to Lumi about it while remembering the dream and putting it all to words like I was posting here, which now I am, hi! Lumi was really happy because this is amazing progress for us and said he was thankful I was helping, and then I told Tewi and she congratulated me and said she could study that experience to figure out how to make more vivid dreams happen in the future. Sweet!

Progress! Lucidness! Happy! The most interesting thing to me is that I didn't have to reality check at all, I actually didn't because reality checking kinda hurts dream stability a tiny bit because obviously you feel the dissociation from your real nose (if you do the pinch your nose and breathe through it thing). The dream was so vivid I just knew I was dreaming already, so I skipped reality checking and went straight for dream stabilizing. But I think I was gonna wake up no matter what, since vivid parts of dreams like this always happen way late in the cycle or w/e at the end of a dream when we're closest to being awake. But whatever, refer to the first three words of this paragraph!

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
02-15-2018, 06:46 AM
Find Reply
Yakumo Offline
Mad Scientist
Registered

Posts: 115
Threads: 1
Joined: Dec 2014
 
RE: Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

Nice!

I have vivid-lucid moments like this about once a year as well but it happens randomly. Never managed to increase length or frequency. Hope you guys can do it.
02-15-2018, 07:56 PM
Find Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to


Contact Us | Tulpa.Info | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication