Hello There, Guest! Register

We finally have a discord server

[Misc] Once a Believer, Revisiting
TulpaFox Offline
The Host With The Most
Registered

Posts: 125
Threads: 6
Joined: Feb 2015
#31
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
Interesting post. I respect that you feel that way about it, though my experiences have indicated differently. I think an important thing to consider is the degree to which your tulpa is developed. I would have to reach high levels of development with eve before making a call like that. When I look at the people who spent the longest periods of time really pouring a lot of work into there tulpa, I see less and less doubt. It dosent seem to be a conclusion that the most veteran among us reach. If you want to revisit it I would suggest really plunging in and suspending judgement. The lack of long time high level tulpamancers walking away from the whole thing is what lends it the most credence in my eyes.
(This post was last modified: 09-22-2016, 11:00 AM by TulpaFox.)
09-22-2016, 10:59 AM
Find Reply

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

Linkzelda Offline
>MFW Image Streaming
Registered

Posts: 2,008
Threads: 31
Joined: Oct 2012
All Accounts Posts: 2,066
#32
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
Maybe this is due to how one feels they are the master of their brain, and that it only takes whatever is poured from the cup they're holding. When they see the possibility of themselves, the continuity of who they are, isn't that sole master, and that the brain doesn't necessarily have to have a preference after experiential context has been developed, this is where the doubt comes in.


09-22-2016, 11:49 AM
Find Reply
War Offline
Tulpa's host
Registered

Posts: 57
Threads: 3
Joined: Oct 2016
All Accounts Posts: 2,070
#33
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
I find it odd that what you describe as the reason why a person would doubt tulpas is some of what I would consider solid evidence of tulpas.
09-22-2016, 01:29 PM
Find Reply
Faemon Offline
Member
Registered

Posts: 96
Threads: 5
Joined: Nov 2014
#34
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
Welcome back!
(09-09-2016, 01:30 AM)Quilten Wrote: At best it was my subconscious spitting stuff out and me convincing myself that that wasn't the case.

With me, it feels as though it's not the case, so I have to keep reminding myself to interpret the actions/messages symbolically. Some issues even seem to work themselves out when I buy into autonomy (within interpersonal limits) rather than keep neurotically conscious about thinking about thinking about how my mind operates...so, when others insist on independence, I just figure that that's their process. I'm not their mother, or their therapist.

Still, it sucks to only be in that mindset because of peer pressure and not because it's really the process of the psyche. If more conversations would open up about interpreting tulpa experiences symbolically or narratively, maybe there would be fewer dogmatic flamewars. Disbelief shouldn't be a threat, just appreciated as an individual approach.
Quote:Personal testimony isn't something I saw as valid evidence, even some of that testimony being from my experiences.
That's brave to admit, that your own testimony wasn't valid. Really, though, back to interpersonal limits...I think the real biggest problem is never what people believe, because that's their bailiwick (again, I am nobody's mother! or therapist!) but what they demand of you—attention, time, conformity? If you neither enjoy or afford giving that out, then run! Be free! With headmates, without headmates, whatever—communities have failed when your inner world becomes condemned to value judgment, more than the interpersonal or empirical effects.
Quote:I've grown a lot in maturity since then and I don't have any guilt or regret, and I know that I made the right decision. The few people who I told about it when I believed still bring it up sometimes and I hate talking about it out of embarrassment.

I hear the same from ex-Otherkin or religious zealots who got disillusioned or simply mellowed out, and, ehh, sometimes that's just an extremely prominent manifestation of an ordinary life process: living and learning. Sometimes what we did when we didn't know better is damaging and shameful, sometimes it's peculiar and embarrassing, but...you know better now, and you'll know better than now in the future, so...if you were of that paradigm back then, it's because you were.
09-22-2016, 11:41 PM
Find Reply
| Eva | Offline
Member
Registered

Posts: 39
Threads: 0
Joined: Sep 2016
All Accounts Posts: 2,066
#35
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
(09-22-2016, 01:29 PM)tulpa001 Wrote: I find it odd that what you describe as the reason why a person would doubt tulpas is some of what I would consider solid evidence of tulpas.

You’re right that it’s odd, but you’ll realize that Linkzelda every now and then tends to mention something that should resonate as some implication of something, but he’s taking another twist in showing that people can react to the same thing in a different manner. Assuming you’re actually referring to him, let me expound more on why he feels it can make one doubt tulpas.
 
A person has it instilled in their mind that they are the only ‘self’ that’s within their own mind. They are the ones that cultivate experiences, memories, and such, and that everything in their inner experiences is exclusive to that continuity of self that they’ve grown accustomed to. Some people want to ensure that this is always the case, and even when they try to be open-minded about this endeavor, there’s a certain complex I feel people have in trying to have an interaction with an ‘other’ within their mind; an implication of another continuity of self.
 
And even if they foster the mentality that it’s an all-inclusive thing, and may be seeing who they could be in different, potential forms, maybe in the back of their mind, they can’t help but chalk it up as behavior 'instillers', dispositions, personalities and what have you that they can wear at any time.
 
So, yes, it’s odd, but it’s about how people react to it. Like those quotes you hear where life is 10% of what comes at you, and 90% of how you react it it?
 
You find it odd because you feel this could be a personal testament of the existence of a tulpa in relation to mental events, but another person may think, ‘Okay, but that still bothers me, and I feel like I’m losing myself doing this.’ It’s odd to see a person go for the opposite, but I think trying to do both sides helps put things into perspective. Linkzelda doesn’t seem to be the type, especially in discussions, to always go for the politically correct paradigm of thinking people may agree with. He has a habit in playing devil’s advocate, but only for the sake of gaining perspective, or trying to understanding something differently. But, it doesn’t mean, just to satiate your concern, he undermines the relationship he has with us.
 
This is all for the sake of knowing.
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2016, 04:34 AM by | Eva |.)
09-23-2016, 04:33 AM
Find Reply
tulpa001 Offline
<void>
Registered

Posts: 2,013
Threads: 27
Joined: Aug 2016
All Accounts Posts: 2,070
#36
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
I see where you are coming from, but, how many people who go into the process of intentionally creating another person inside themselves who could potentially compete for dominance, how many are the type of person who would be scared off by actually succeeding at that?

I assume there would be a few people like that.

The theory you are both putting forward also presupposes that a person is selectively interpreting evidence to arrive at a foregone conclusion. If a person were being logical, the only doubts a person would get from a tulpa who can also be master of the brain is maybe this was not a good idea.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
09-23-2016, 06:56 AM
Find Reply
Tewi Offline
Amaranthine Rabbit
Registered

Posts: 436
Threads: 1
Joined: Jan 2016
All Accounts Posts: 2,688
#37
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
Someone once forsook learning to lucid dream because they "Had a moment where they weren't sure if they were dreaming or not". ... Yeah, that's actually a good thing and the time you do a reality check, normally. But I guess some people see things differently. It's their right to hold on to their reality when they feel it's threatened. You can't (always) force somebody to embrace new experiences or ways of thinking. And if they're not otherwise in danger, there's no reason to try, once they show resistance at least.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
09-23-2016, 07:16 AM
Find Reply
| Eva | Offline
Member
Registered

Posts: 39
Threads: 0
Joined: Sep 2016
All Accounts Posts: 2,066
#38
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
tulpa001 Wrote:The theory you are both putting forward also presupposes that a person is selectively interpreting evidence to arrive at a foregone conclusion. If a person were being logical, the only doubts a person would get from a tulpa who can also be master of the brain is maybe this was not a good idea.

I’m a bit confused on what the foregone conclusion could be. Maybe one conclusion that they, the host, are the true master of the mind, and that any other aspects that may have this potential are merely because the host believes it’s their yearning incarnate. This would allow them to justify mastership over their mind, but it may slightly undermine the perspective of the thought-form in question.

If the conclusion is something different as in redefining how the host sees this dynamic with who has unchallengeable reigning of the totality of the mind, yeah, one reaction would be that it wasn’t a good idea to begin with. But, one has to question why this skepticism is brought up in the first place. And I think an example of this are anecdotes where people assume that tulpas have some propensity to make a 180, and cause a destruction of self, or some other negative context. But said context neglects the aftermath should that even happen—like how the tulpa would have to take ownership of day-to-day activities. It would be futile, in the bigger picture type of sense, for a tulpa to want to bathe in their host’s blood, and conquer everything.

I see this as an illusion that a person allows to become a reality in their head; that their sense of self gets compromised with an implication of an ‘other’ in their mind when in reality, this doubting and fear is forgetting how illogical it would be for there to be self-referential destruction in the first place. Another reaction to this is that the person sees the implication of an ‘other’ as a means of flourishing with mental rapport, and what have you vs. a cancer to one’s continuity of self.

To sum what I said – this probably might be rooted on how a person throughout the course of their life has this assurance that the continuity of self they’ve grown accustomed to doesn’t have to have significant nuances, or a completely different dynamic in how they conceptualize themselves. When this gets questioned, and challenged, the reactivity levels, and other factors like their emotional intelligence to even talk themselves down into finding a silver lining is going to vary. People can understand why OP thought the way they did, but some still feel they could’ve done more, and some felt this, that, and XYZ.

Some people see this revelation of OP to hold even more novelty in their pursuit of treating a tulpa as sentient; to prove something, I guess. But not to OP, but the fact that seeing a person wanting to move on from this isn’t something that comforts them. They get to see themselves, but in a different light through another person. They then create, or add on to their own attitude towards whatever thesis they want to make in life with their tulpas, or not.

Quote: I assume there would be a few people like that.

This is what one would like to believe; that people can acknowledge that the philosophy behind these things take effort, and that they’re willing to endure everything—the necessary evils, the double-edged sword logic…everything. But some people just want a tulpa to be a tulpa – someone that just goes about emulating sentience and what have you without a care in the world. That they hold novelty towards doing the simple things in life, and neglecting what even allows them to be aware of it in the first place. Of course, this could be perfectly fine to ignore introspection for some, but with how threads are in the past, an inference I’ve seen is that people’s minds become insatiable because it’s still something new to them; the mind will continue trying to spur the yearning behind what it means to treat someone within your own mind as sentient as well.

Of course, I can’t make the assumption that everyone’s insatiable in philosophical inquiry. Some tulpas just want to focus more on the color of their bow, and what shoes they’re going to wear for the next day. Perfectly fine by me; as long as they don’t militantly try to shut down those who seek something more than that. Also, this isn’t directed at you, this is just a general statement.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2016, 05:02 PM by | Eva |.)
09-25-2016, 05:00 PM
Find Reply
War Offline
Tulpa's host
Registered

Posts: 57
Threads: 3
Joined: Oct 2016
All Accounts Posts: 2,070
#39
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
(09-25-2016, 05:00 PM)| Eva | Wrote: I’m a bit confused on what the foregone conclusion could be.
(09-23-2016, 04:33 AM)| Eva | Wrote: A person has it instilled in their mind that they are the only ‘self’ that’s within their own mind.
This. See:
(09-23-2016, 04:33 AM)| Eva | Wrote: Some people want to ensure that this is always the case[...]
(09-23-2016, 04:33 AM)| Eva | Wrote: You find it odd because you feel this could be a personal testament of the existence of a tulpa in relation to mental events, but another person may think, ‘Okay, but that still bothers me, and I feel like I’m losing myself doing this.’
(09-23-2016, 07:16 AM)Tewi Wrote: Someone once forsook learning to lucid dream because they "Had a moment where they weren't sure if they were dreaming or not". ...
It's like people doubt the forest because they can't see past the trees.

(09-22-2016, 11:49 AM)Linkzelda Wrote: When they see the possibility of themselves, the continuity of who they are, isn't that sole master, and that the brain doesn't necessarily have to have a preference after experiential context has been developed, [...]
Why would you turn from such obvious evidence unless you needed it to be okay to dissolve your tulpas.

(09-25-2016, 05:00 PM)| Eva | Wrote: And I think an example of this are anecdotes where people assume that tulpas have some propensity to make a 180, and cause a destruction of self,
Tulpa worries a bit that he might 'eat' me someday, but I don't.

(09-25-2016, 05:00 PM)| Eva | Wrote: [...]this doubting and fear is forgetting how illogical it would be for there to be self-referential destruction in the first place.
Although I don't think he'd ever go through with it, what makes you think it is actually impossible in the first place?
09-26-2016, 04:55 AM
Find Reply
Anonymous
Unregistered

 
#40
 
RE: Once a Believer, Revisiting
The OP of this thread is WHY I am against promoting only a single idea of how tulpas work!  For some it simply works better to have the view that tulpas are a figment.  Melian and I even believe that it is possible that there are both illusory tulpas and real tulpas existing simultaneously in the forum.  I think that all tulpas are illusory, but who cares really?  I may be wrong, I may be right.  But it seems unfortunate to me that some people start to doubt, even after creating a tulpa and going as far as switching or possession, only to have everything fall apart simply because they begin to suspect that the tulpas are imaginary.  

So?  So what if they are imaginary?  I don't understand this disdain and contempt for imagination! The tulpas were functioning and exciting!  Why let them die because they might be imaginary?  Since day one on this forum I have fought for this!  Today I was told, once again, that I am "insulting many" with my language and word choice because I insist that promoting one approach is a bad idea.  

There is NOT a single solid block of unanimous opinion that tulpas are real sentience.  THERE IS NOT A UNANIMOUS BLOCK OF OPINION THAT TULPAS ARE REAL SENTIENCE.  Some of us, who have tulpas, disagree with that idea.  We aren't attempting to insult everyone.  We are not trying to destroy tulpas or say they don't exist.  

What the hell people?  I see things like this OP as a tragedy and a direct result in that unbending, uncompromising, intolerant, annoying insistence that everyone must believe and maintain the accepted position or they will be "insulting many."  Well guess fucking what?  

I will be insulting many.

Check this exchange out and you will see my point that insisting tulpas must be real to be legit sometimes kills tulpas and not all of us believe tulpas have to be defined as sentient.
10-07-2016, 09:53 PM
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to


Contact Us | Tulpa.Info | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication