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[Misc] Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1
Teryakywind Offline
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#21
 
RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1
New updates are good. It's easy to read, covers everything nicely, but in broad terms without much detail. Are you planning on going into any more detail on forcing methods such as visualization, personality reinforcement, etc.?

The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience.
09-28-2012, 07:09 AM
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Amadeus Offline
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#22
 
RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1
When the Wiki gets put together the guide will link to different sections that will go into all the detail, and link to other guides that talk specifically about those things.

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09-28-2012, 07:13 AM
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Teryakywind Offline
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#23
 
RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1
I didn't hear about a wiki or anything. When did this happen?

The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience.
10-12-2012, 08:51 PM
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Pleeb Offline
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Default  RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1
We don't have a wiki yet, but we will once the new site structure is ready. For more information, check out the announcement: An update and what's to come.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2012, 03:02 PM by Pleeb.)
10-13-2012, 03:01 PM
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Purlox Offline
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#25
 
Default  RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1.1
(I decided I'll give you some critique you can use to improve the guide at least)

Everything before "Where do I begin?" section can be scraped or taken to a different page, because newcomers don't come to the guide for this.

The "Where do I begin?" section is pretty good, but needs some changes. "Ultimately it will involve a lot of time ..." The whole sentence is unnecessary imo and the first part could even create expectations that would slow people down. I would put the sentence "There is no disadvantage to using multiple methods." because it fits here much more.

"Working on the concept" the text in the section doesn't seem to belong to the header and I'm not sure what you wanted to talk about here.

"Occasionally they’ll change something about themselves, and it may surprise you to see how extreme the change is." The change doesn't have to be extreme to be surprising.

Saying one phase of tulpa development is external makes it seem like we are going to be bringing them to our dimension or something similar, so I would reword it. Or maybe even get rid of the division completely, because I see no point in it.

"... and the length of time it takes nowadays compared to when we all began has become a small fraction." Is completely unnecessary.

"If there’s anything that is a common theme in every method of tulpa creation, it’s forcing." I think you are forgetting that (tulpa)forcing is a term to talk about working on your tulpa, which makes this sentence completely unnecessary.

(talking about tulpaforcing) "This is the time that you take on a regular basis to go somewhere peaceful and commit the various aspects of your tulpa to memory." This might apply to working on personality and form, but it ignores working on other things like hearing your tulpa, possession, imposition etc.

"Ultimately, everything that is your tulpa will be something you have to think deeply about." What do you mean by this sentence? We certainly don't have to think about what our tulpa is.

"Visualization is a term referring to when you force for the physical appearance of your tulpa" This definition is really bad. I think a better wording would be: "Visualisation is the part of tulpaforcing, where you focus on seeing your tulpa or at least some part of it and work on its form."

In the part about visualisation you should also mention that it's not necessary to see the tulpa well to be ever "finished" with visualisation.

"you're talking to someone who implicitly likes you" It's not really implicit in my opinion. It's just that we give a lot of love to our mindfolk, that makes them love/like us back. I don't want some newcomer think that a tulpa will like them no matter what, so I would get rid of the part.

"Speak to them from the heart, and in time, they’ll respond similarly." From what I have heard and experienced myself it's more the host not being able to hear them rather them not being able to talk, so I think it should be said in a different way.

"Nobody is really all too comfortable visualizing their tulpa in a void" Are we really going to throw assumptions at the reader? I myself had no problem visualising Ariadne in a void even though we had our own mindscape.

"This concept is called wonderland, and it’s a nice visual aid in developing your tulpa." It's not just a visual aid, as we know tulpae can interact with it like you can with a real world and they can do it even if you aren't paying attention and the changes persist as does the mindscape itself.

"Having an effective wonderland gives you a world for your tulpa to explore as well as a place for you to spend time together before the imposition stage." The mindscape is still very useful after imposition, so I wouldn't say that last part, especially not because it could make some people assume it's hard to spend time together before imposition.

Also I wonder what you meant with "effective wonderland".

"When you feel your tulpa is as developed as it can be in the internal phase, it’s time to move on to the next step: imposing them on your senses." You can easily start with imposition even before doing much of the "internal phase". I also have reasons to believe it might be better to do imposition very early, so I would remove this sentence.

The paragraph should also mention directly that you should be doing what you did when you did visualisation, but this time trying to see them in real world. The whole paragraph is pretty confusing as well, so I think it should be rewritten a bit.

"...so try to force your eyes to see them doing those things. Eventually, they actually will." This pretty much says that your eyes will be able to see them, which implies they are in the real world and it isn't true. Your brain adds the image of your tulpa into what you see.

I think he should be more explicit about the fact that you will "hear" them like anyone else in the real world except that it's just brain adding their voice into your perception.

Can you stop ending every paragraph (in one of the sections) with "... will blow your mind" it makes us seem really weird in the eyes of newcomers.

I don't see the point of "Life, as Vivid and Real as Any Other".

To be entirely honest, most of the text (when you look at the text itself and not at the headers) looks like you not being sure as to what to write next or how to get to the next point, which causes you to make jumps from one thing to another without them being connected in any way (e.g. "There is no disadvantage to using multiple methods. Believe in your tulpa’s sentience from the beginning;")
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2012, 01:24 PM by Purlox.)
10-16-2012, 01:23 PM
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Oguigi Offline
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#26
 
Default  RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1.1
I decided to peer-review some of what purlox said, and For the most part i agree with what he just said.


(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: Everything before "Where do I begin?" section can be scraped or taken to a different page, because newcomers don't come to the guide for this.
I also agree with this

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: The "Where do I begin?" section is pretty good, but needs some changes. "Ultimately it will involve a lot of time ..." The whole sentence is unnecessary imo and the first part could even create expectations that would slow people down. I would put the sentence "There is no disadvantage to using multiple methods." because it fits here much more.
I think i know where you're coming from here Purlox, but i must disagree with you here, Newcomers need to at least be conscious that this process does indeed take time, I believe it to be worse for a newcomer to get started expecting to have a imposed tulpa by the end of the week and starts spamming the forums with why he/she haven't goten X and Y for his/her tulpa yet. I don't see any harm in informing newcomers
"Ultimately it will involve a lot of time ..." Because it does, there's no magic wand for this, it's work and patience. am sure we won't get another Winter because of this.

Expected progress in X time, is as bad as hour counting. when progress happens that's great, but when it doesn't thats okay too. because it takes times



(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "Visualization is a term referring to when you force for the physical appearance of your tulpa" This definition is really bad. I think a better wording would be: "Visualisation is the part of tulpaforcing, where you focus on seeing your tulpa or at least some part of it and work on its form."
I think the only flaw with the first statement is that how some newcomers may misinterpret that as Imposing.

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: In the part about visualisation you should also mention that it's not necessary to see the tulpa well to be ever "finished" with visualisation.
I agree, My Visualision stinks. but my tulpa is very happy with her form.


(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "you're talking to someone who implicitly likes you" It's not really implicit in my opinion. It's just that we give a lot of love to our mindfolk, that makes them love/like us back. I don't want some newcomer think that a tulpa will like them no matter what, so I would get rid of the part.
Am somewhere in-between on this, One thing that i think is important is that we have to build newcomers confidence, while not promoting ignorance, it should be edited but not removed. Add what purlox said "you're talking to someone who implicitly likes you Because of the love and time you will spend with him/her/it"


(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "Speak to them from the heart, and in time, they’ll respond similarly." From what I have heard and experienced myself it's more the host not being able to hear them rather them not being able to talk, so I think it should be said in a different way.
agreed

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "Nobody is really all too comfortable visualizing their tulpa in a void" Are we really going to throw assumptions at the reader? I myself had no problem visualising Ariadne in a void even though we had our own mindscape.
I would just say that visualizing in a wonderland is preferred over a void. not that a void is too much of a bad thing

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "This concept is called wonderland, and it’s a nice visual aid in developing your tulpa." It's not just a visual aid, as we know tulpae can interact with it like you can with a real world and they can do it even if you aren't paying attention and the changes persist as does the mindscape itself.
I agree

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "Having an effective wonderland gives you a world for your tulpa to explore as well as a place for you to spend time together before the imposition stage." The mindscape is still very useful after imposition, so I wouldn't say that last part, especially not because it could make some people assume it's hard to spend time together before imposition.
agreed

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "...so try to force your eyes to see them doing those things. Eventually, they actually will." This pretty much says that your eyes will be able to see them, which implies they are in the real world and it isn't true. Your brain adds the image of your tulpa into what you see.
agreed

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: Can you stop ending every paragraph (in one of the sections) with "... will blow your mind" it makes us seem really weird in the eyes of newcomers.
lol, i agree here; it's okay to hype up our newcomers but everything in moderation Amadeus =).

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(This post was last modified: 10-16-2012, 02:27 PM by Oguigi.)
10-16-2012, 02:21 PM
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Pleeb Offline
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#27
 
Default  RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1.1
I just have a few comments on what Purlox said; everything else I'm either indifferent, I agree on, or I would like Amadeus to come in and comment/defend on the subject.

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: (I decided I'll give you some critique you can use to improve the guide at least)

Everything before "Where do I begin?" section can be scraped or taken to a different page, because newcomers don't come to the guide for this.
I should clarify something.

If this will be acting as the site content (that is, the new site, excluding wiki, et cetera), it will be the very first thing on the home page that they will see. When I instructed Amadeus to write the new site content, I was instructing him to aim for Dreamview's approach; you can read their home page and their overview to get an idea on how they organize their introduction to lucid dreaming.

To quote myself from back in September:
(09-24-2012, 06:14 AM)Pleeb Wrote: I'm sure you've noticed Amadeus post ... once finalized, it's actually going to serve as the new content for the website ... and serves as a nice primer to introduce people that have never heard of the concept, before.

This can quite possibly be the first time the viewer to the site is encountering tulpae, or it could be right after they've read the wikipedia article, got bombarded with mysticism, then decided to click the link to tulpa.info at the end of the article.

If you visit Dreamviews, and click the Introduction, you are listed with, well, an introduction. In this case, the first paragraph is as follows:
What if you could enter a world within your own mind--one which is completely realistic, but completely safe. One where you can do anything your heart desires, no limits, no consequences. If you can imagine it, you can do it--and all while sleeping peacefully.

I believe this serves well enough as catching someone's interest in lucid dreaming if they've never heard of it. If someone is going to the site for anything but an overview and introduction to tulpae, then they can click the next section of the page and read on where to start.

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "Occasionally they’ll change something about themselves, and it may surprise you to see how extreme the change is." The change doesn't have to be extreme to be surprising.
I know where you're coming from, but as an overview explaining deviation, saying that it may be surprising, using the key word being may should be fine in my opinion.

However, if the wording is unnerving, it can be changed, as I believe the example given in this section explains that it can be extreme and surprising.
I know of one earth pony who became a dragon -- a really big one.


(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "Speak to them from the heart, and in time, they’ll respond similarly." From what I have heard and experienced myself it's more the host not being able to hear them rather them not being able to talk, so I think it should be said in a different way.
I believe it ends up coming off as the host not trusting what they hear and less them not being able to hear.

(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: "Nobody is really all too comfortable visualizing their tulpa in a void" Are we really going to throw assumptions at the reader? I myself had no problem visualising Ariadne in a void even though we had our own mindscape.
I agree with this very much. I believe it could be reworded as,
"While some choose to visualize their tulpa in a void, many..."


(10-16-2012, 01:23 PM)Purlox Wrote: To be entirely honest, most of the text (when you look at the text itself and not at the headers) looks like you not being sure as to what to write next or how to get to the next point, which causes you to make jumps from one thing to another without them being connected in any way (e.g. "There is no disadvantage to using multiple methods. Believe in your tulpa’s sentience from the beginning;")
I think I know why this was done. As I noted near the beginning, I would like this to be split up into sections in a similar way that dreamviews has it, rather than it being one large page.

As for my own comments...

I don't have too many complaints about this overview, but I do have a few. Firstly, I believe the headers may be a bit superficial, if that makes any sense. Amadeus is a very good creative writer, and while I'm happy to see how he wrote up the introduction creatively to capture the readers attention among other things, I believe the headers should be most directly to the point that will be covering what's talked about in that section.

Further, I would like things not to be discussed as it were in a procedural method (Purlox made a point that Imposition could be done at the start, or further down). So ideally, this should cover what imposition is, as well as how it works and an overview on how to do it, but it shouldn't say that you should be doing imposition after you've done X or Y -- same for anything else.

My other issues is that it becomes too personal, a lot of the use of the word "I", that sort of thing. I would like the end result to remain neutral and avoid use of the word "I, me, " etc. Also, I would like it neutral when it comes to actual tulpae as well as creators. For instance,
"For example, my tulpa, Juno, goes through hair styles based on how she feels. Not once has she had the style or color of hair that I designed her with originally. But that’s perfectly fine."
If this is written up as the main site content, I'm going to end up getting emails about my tulpa named Juno xD

I believe this could be written more broadly, mentioning that there are instances when tulpae go through hair styles based on how they feel, and not one of the styles were designed by their creator.

Last thing, though it ties a bit into the header thing, I'd like this worked out an organized so each section is even further independent from each other; I'd like them to be able to stand on their own, and organized properly so I'll have an easier time getting it to fit in a system similar like Dreamviews (though I can manually do this, once we have a final draft).


On one more note, in regards to some other comments, this guide doesn't have to go into discussing a lot of things such as possession or switching, unless we wish to get into that, just like we don't have to go into all the details about wonderland, etc. This is because users will learn more about the wonderland from actual wonderland guides, not this overview to introduce them to the concepts.
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2012, 03:36 PM by Pleeb.)
10-16-2012, 03:31 PM
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Purlox Offline
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#28
 
Default  RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1.1
(10-16-2012, 02:21 PM)koomer Wrote: I think i know where you're coming from here Purlox, but i must disagree with you here, Newcomers need to at least be conscious that this process does indeed take time, I believe it to be worse for a newcomer to get started expecting to have a imposed tulpa by the end of the week and starts spamming the forums with why he/she haven't goten X and Y for his/her tulpa yet. I don't see any harm in informing newcomers
"Ultimately it will involve a lot of time ..." Because it does, there's no magic wand for this, it's work and patience. am sure we won't get another Winter because of this.

Expected progress in X time, is as bad as hour counting. when progress happens that's great, but when it doesn't thats okay too. because it takes times
Any expectation is bad. This includes both expecting your tulpa to be slow and expecting them to be fast. If you fear a person that will be whining about not being able to create his tulpa fast enough, then you should get rid of stuff that create expectations of fast progress.

Leaving it there for another potential person like Winter isn't a good reason, because the biggest problem Winter had (at least from the little data he gave us) is that he was too set on the old way of doing things and only recognised some forms of communication as "correct".

(10-16-2012, 02:21 PM)koomer Wrote: I think the only flaw with the first statement is that how some newcomers may misinterpret that as Imposing.
That is also true, but I find the way he put it really bad and hard to understand unless you already know what he means.

(10-16-2012, 02:21 PM)koomer Wrote: Am somewhere in-between on this, One thing that i think is important is that we have to build newcomers confidence, while not promoting ignorance, it should be edited but not removed. Add what purlox said "you're talking to someone who implicitly likes you Because of the love and time you will spend with him/her/it"
I would be fine with Amadeus using your suggestion if he doesn't want to get rid of it entirely.

(10-16-2012, 02:21 PM)koomer Wrote: I would just say that visualizing in a wonderland is preferred over a void. not that a void is too much of a bad thing
Yes, but I would like to get rid of the unnecessary assumption the sentence creates, because it can make the person feel weird for being different from the assumption.


Edit:
(10-16-2012, 03:31 PM)Pleeb Wrote: If this will be acting as the site content (that is, the new site, excluding wiki, et cetera), it will be the very first thing on the home page that they will see. When I instructed Amadeus to write the new site content, I was instructing him to aim for Dreamview's approach; you can read their home page and their overview to get an idea on how they organize their introduction to lucid dreaming.
Ok, going by that I would make some changes:

I would leave everything before Hystorically speaking section. But everything in Hystorically speaking section to What ISN’T a Tulpa? should be compressed to a much shorter part with some of the text removed entirely.

(10-16-2012, 03:31 PM)Pleeb Wrote: I know where you're coming from, but as an overview explaining deviation, saying that it may be surprising, using the key word being may should be fine in my opinion.

However, if the wording is unnerving, it can be changed, as I believe the example given in this section explains that it can be extreme and surprising.
I know of one earth pony who became a dragon -- a really big one.
The problem isn't that the change may surprise you, but that it implies that only big changes can surprise you.
Also mindfolk can shapeshift without a problem. And I know of one that played with her form as well

(10-16-2012, 03:31 PM)Pleeb Wrote: I believe it ends up coming off as the host not trusting what they hear and less them not being able to hear.
This is true, it certainly hinders hearing, but first you need to learn how to hear them imo.

(10-16-2012, 03:31 PM)Pleeb Wrote: I agree with this very much. I believe it could be reworded as,
"While some choose to visualize their tulpa in a void, many..."
I like that rewording.

(10-16-2012, 03:31 PM)Pleeb Wrote: Firstly, I believe the headers may be a bit superficial, if that makes any sense. Amadeus is a very good creative writer, and while I'm happy to see how he wrote up the introduction creatively to capture the readers attention among other things, I believe the headers should be most directly to the point that will be covering what's talked about in that section.
I agree, they should make the text easy to navigate rather than spice it up.

(10-16-2012, 03:31 PM)Pleeb Wrote: Further, I would like things not to be discussed as it were in a procedural method (Purlox made a point that Imposition could be done at the start, or further down). So ideally, this should cover what imposition is, as well as how it works and an overview on how to do it, but it shouldn't say that you should be doing imposition after you've done X or Y -- same for anything else.
I fully agree, it was one of the main reasons that made me think it's bad. Not sure if I missed some of those assumptions when going over it the second time, but I could have because I didn't pay as much attention as the first time. If you make third version, then I will go over it in more detail so that this isn't present anywhere in it.

(10-16-2012, 03:31 PM)Pleeb Wrote: My other issues is that it becomes too personal, a lot of the use of the word "I", that sort of thing. I would like the end result to remain neutral and avoid use of the word "I, me, " etc. Also, I would like it neutral when it comes to actual tulpae as well as creators. For instance,
"For example, my tulpa, Juno, goes through hair styles based on how she feels. Not once has she had the style or color of hair that I designed her with originally. But that’s perfectly fine."
If this is written up as the main site content, I'm going to end up getting emails about my tulpa named Juno
I wanted to mention this as well, but I thought you wanted him to make the guide from the 1st perspective.
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2012, 04:45 PM by Purlox.)
10-16-2012, 03:35 PM
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Amadeus Offline
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#29
 
Default  RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1
D8

This is a hell of a lot of feedback I can work with - that I could have done something with a couple weeks ago when I still had computer access, before I moved.

Purlox, I regret to ask, but due to the circumstances would you be willing to work on this guide as well? My computer is doing this recently.

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10-16-2012, 05:07 PM
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Purlox Offline
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#30
 
RE: Tulpa Phenomenon Overview Guide v1
Sorry for not being more specific earlier, but there were (and still are) so many things that I see wrong with the guide, that I didn't think it was worth trying to redone it when that would mean changing most of it.

I wouldn't mind writing it with you, but I would prefer if we had at least some sort of communication (e.g. through IRC or Skype), so we can talk about the changes before I make them.
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2012, 05:30 PM by Purlox.)
10-16-2012, 05:29 PM
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