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New guide for the main page
Pleeb Offline
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#11
 
RE: New guide for the main page
I like the guide, though one thing I'd like to just say. While I agree with what others have said about possession, I feel strongly about making the point that imposition is a thing, and this used to be one of the primary foundations of having tulpas. It was actually the prospect of imposition that got me interested into tulpas. It's also something that significantly helps the tulpa (can any imposed tulpas chime in?) in terms of attention, development, etc. Moreso than possession, I think.

I could go into my thoughts on why I believe we should be gearing people back towards imposition more (not enough tulpas are being imposed), but that's probably best suited for another topic.
07-04-2015, 01:33 PM
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#12
 
RE: New guide for the main page
I agree, and imposition is what got me interested in tulpas as well. On the other hand, I've had two people tell me that the idea of imposition scares them. I guess to some people it feels "crazy". So if we present the ideas of possession and imposition, I'd rather present them as possibilities, not the inevitable end.

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
07-04-2015, 02:21 PM
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#13
 
RE: New guide for the main page
(07-04-2015, 02:21 PM)sushi Wrote: I guess to some people it feels "crazy".
As opposed to a voice living inside your head?

Even the classic definition of the tulpa (even before Irish) involved imposition, and I've noticed tulpas who are imposed end up having more going for them in terms of stability, parallel processing, and all that other "tulpa magic" that the tulpas of old have that seem to be falling out of fashion with the newer crowd. I just think it's something that's vital or at least very "healthy" for the tulpa.
07-04-2015, 03:02 PM
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#14
 
RE: New guide for the main page
(07-04-2015, 03:02 PM)Pleeb Wrote: As opposed to a voice living inside your head?

Even the classic definition of the tulpae (even before Irish) involved imposition, and I've noticed tulpae who are imposed end up having more going for them in terms of stability, parallel processing, and all that other "tulpa magic" that the tulpae of old have that seem to be falling out of fashion with the newer crowd. I just think it's something that's vital or at least very "healthy" for the tulpa.

That's an interesting statement that certain tulpae skills and types might be "in fashion." I suppose that actually may be the case. Interesting observation.

Pleeb, I like your reference to "before Irish" and "classic definition." Pre-Irish tulpas vs. Post-Irish tulpae? Classic pre-Irish tulpae were more metaphysical in nature were they not? From my own research, the things tulpae were used for pretty much required universal imposition (were everyone could see them not just the creator). Yidams were more like the hallucinatory type of mental construct where only the host could see it but these also required imposition to be complete, according to the literary sources I have read. Both were considered projections of magic created by concentrated thought and were only illusions.

Post-Irish tulpae do no not require imposition for fulfillment of purpose, and are considered psychological constructs not projection of magic. They are still created in the same manner, manifestations of concentrated thought.

I think the point here is whether or not the guides include anything about the classic pre-Irish definition or stick more with the post-Irish definition and put imposition in a "would be nice but isn't necessary" after the fact category. If my opinion is worth anything here, I would put mention of imposition later on in the discussion.

P.S. "Tulpae" vs. "tulpas" for the plural? I will try to be consistent from now on and stick with "tulpae." It seems cooler anyway for some reason.

~Mistgod
07-04-2015, 03:23 PM
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#15
 
RE: New guide for the main page
(07-04-2015, 03:23 PM)Mistgod Wrote: That's an interesting statement that certain tulpae skills and types might be "in fashion." I suppose that actually may be the case. Interesting observation.

Pleeb, I like your reference to "before Irish" and "classic definition." Pre-Irish tulpas vs. Post-Irish tulpae? Classic pre-Irish tulpae were more metaphysical in nature were they not? From my own research, the things tulpae were used for pretty much required universal imposition (were everyone could see them not just the creator). Yidams were more like the hallucinatory type of mental construct where only the host could see it but these also required imposition to be complete, according to the literary sources I have read. Both were considered projections of magic created by concentrated thought and were only illusions.

Post-Irish tulpae do no not require imposition for fulfillment of purpose, and are considered psychological constructs not projection of magic. They are still created in the same manner, manifestations of concentrated thought.
Nobillis can probably go more into details if she feels comfortable doing, but Tulpas spiked up around 20 years ago too, very similar to the ones we have now. Even with most metaphysical tulpas, you end up with something of the same nature of what we have now.

As for universal imposition, I recall reading from Alexandra David-Néel herself, saying that she may have created her own "hallucination." Even the Tibetan books on tulpas make notes of them being hallucinations- the idea is that when your own reality becomes altered to the point that you can impose tulpas, you start to realize that nothing is real indeed (and thus your path to enlightenment continues; it was all an exercise for them).

(07-04-2015, 03:23 PM)Mistgod Wrote: I think the point here is whether or not the guides include anything about the classic pre-Irish definition or stick more with the post-Irish definition and put imposition in a "would be nice but isn't necessary" after the fact category. If my opinion is worth anything here, I would put mention of imposition later on in the discussion.
By saying "classic tulpas" I meant the tulpas from around Irish's time, the ones right before then (through 2012, or the ones that came up in the 70s if you want to go that route) and shortly after. The ones that can cover your eyes with their hands and you'll stop seeing what's in front of you. They can get your attention by standing in front of you and saying -- audibly -- "Hello!" They could solve a math problem and say the answer in your ear while you're working on another, or pull out memories that you've never thought you had, dating back to your childhood; recount your dreams. They're visible, as clear as your keyboard, and just as vivid, and needed no focus from you whatsoever since they're always getting that constant, independent, imposed, focus. I think that tapered off around 2013, maybe? People eventually got more and more interested in switching/possession then they were imposition, and with that, we began seeing a decline in many newer tulpas' abilities.

Whether that shift in their abilities came from people spending less time (and being more 'passive') with forcing, had less focus in their development, or some other variable, I couldn't say for sure. But I still believe imposition should be something integral to tuplas, and that's it's a very important key to bringing them up to the caliber of potential they're meant for.

(07-04-2015, 03:23 PM)Mistgod Wrote: P.S. "Tulpae" vs. "tulpas" for the plural? I will try to be consistent from now on and stick with "tulpae." It seems cooler anyway for some reason.
"Tulpae" was first used by FAQ_man in an attempt to separate the metaphyscial tulpas from the non-metaphyscial. It was his way of applying a sciency aspect to it. Linguistically, it's wrong. In English, we normally apply the plural suffix that's common for the language we've taken it from. For words that come from Tibet, we pluralize them with an "s". You wouldn't pluralize "lama" as "lamae," you'd call them "lamas". The same would go for "tulpas."
07-04-2015, 06:24 PM
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#16
 
RE: New guide for the main page
Wow, I need to interact with you more often! I just learned so much in just a few minutes! I had no idea that imposition was more emphasized in the "early days" of internet tulpas. THIS is why I write so much and interact so much and make "controversial" statements.

That fact, above anything else, permanently puts to rest in my mind whether or not my imaginary friend Melian is a tulpa or not. If imposition to the level you are describing is necessary to be a tulpa, she is hardly anywhere near that. At the very most she is a weak shadow of a tulpa at it's simplest beginnings. The thought of Melian being fully imposed and in the room with me is very intriguing. I have a huge romantic crush on her. I doubt it would be good for my marriage and heart (physical and romantic). LOL I am content with Melian as she is after 38 years. Whao, this was a Freudian moment! I think I just stated one of the secret reasons why I resist advancing her to tulpa. I am in love with Melian. Danger Will Robinson! Thanks for couch time Dr. Pleeb. LOL

"Tulpas" it is then instead of "tulpae." My wife (English major) was insisting the same thing, but I wouldn't listen. I need to listen to my wife more often sometimes. Ugh.

Is that a prevailing belief in Tulpa Info then? That the universe is all an illusion? Is Buddhism philosophy a necessary aspect in understanding tulpa sentience? I am part way there, or almost all the way there, with my belief in a category of existence called "pseudo-real."

EDIT: (Note to admin: I am hoping these responses are not "derailing" this thread. I am trying to be careful and aware of my tendencies. I will end my responses here in this thread for now. I am sorry if I relate so much to myself, but this is all so deeply personal to me. I learn by interacting in the forum, and I am learning a lot! Thank you folks.)

NOTE EVERYONE: This thread is about the new guide for the main thread. The immediate subject at hand before this was where to talk about imposition in the new guide and how relevant it is to tulpa creation for newbies.

~Mistgod
07-04-2015, 06:46 PM
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#17
 
RE: New guide for the main page
(07-04-2015, 06:46 PM)Mistgod Wrote: That fact, above anything else, permanently puts to rest in my mind whether or not my imaginary friend Melian is a tulpa or not. If imposition to the level you are describing is necessary to be a tulpa, she is hardly anywhere near that. At the very most she is a weak shadow of a tulpa at it's simplest beginnings. The thought of Melian being fully imposed and in the room with me is very intriguing. I have a huge romantic crush on her. I doubt it would be good for my marriage and heart (physical and romantic). LOL I am content with Melian as she is after 38 years. Whao, this was a Freudian moment! I think I just stated one of the secret reasons why I resist advancing her to tulpa. I am in love with Melian. Danger Will Robinson! Thanks for couch time Dr. Pleeb. LOL
. . . .
Is that a prevailing belief in Tulpa Info then? That the universe is all an illusion? Is Buddhism philosophy a necessary aspect in understanding tulpa sentience? I am part way there, or almost all the way there, with my belief in a category of existence called "pseudo-real."
I probably just opened a can of worms; I'll leave it up to Kiah if he wants to split it. To answer your question though on the "reality is an illusion" thing, that's something in Buddhism rather than Tulpa.info.
07-04-2015, 07:21 PM
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#18
 
RE: New guide for the main page
Seems harmless enough for now. If people really did want to further the discussion of the history of tulpas and whatnot, I could split it. But if this is where it stops, it's not a big deal.
But I'd still like more comments about the guide.

"If this can be avoided, it should. If it can't, then it would be better if it could be. If it happened and you're thinking back to it, try and think back further. Try not to avoid it with your mind. If any of this is possible, it may be helpful. If not, it won't be."
07-05-2015, 02:56 AM
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#19
 
RE: New guide for the main page
[Tri] We are going to go through this paragraph by paragraph. Overall, we really like the idea of having a guide like that. The tricky thing of course is to make sure we don't overly affect what people try in certain realms.

guide as of 2015-07-07 Wrote:Introduction

Note that this is only one guide, and it is not the law of the land. You should try as many guides as possible and make your own method out of them—something that works for you. This is an introspective experience, after all, so it's good to make it as unique to you as possible.

This is a very important part to begin with. Definitely something to keep.

guide as of 2015-07-07 Wrote:Chances are that anyone reading this page already has a clear idea of what a tulpa is, but for those who don't know: a tulpa is an autonomous consciousness created in your mind, and is in control of their opinions, feelings, and movements—a separate person in the same head as you. They are capable of thinking on their own, and can communicate with their host (creator). A tulpa often has a form—an imaginary body that they identify with. With hard work and dedication, you will be able to impose the tulpa onto your senses, meaning that you'll be able to interact with them just as you would anyone else. The tulpa will also be capable of things like possession, where they are able to take control of your body to interact with your environment. Keep in mind that this shouldn't be done to create your perfect anime waifu—a tulpa is a person, and deserves as much respect as anyone else.

That last sentence is important. Very important.

We do like that imposition and possession are mentioned. We do think that the definition of imposition will confuse people. Just put in a parenthetical remark after "tulpa onto your senses" saying "(basically doing controlled hallucination)". That will paint the picture a lot quicker. Also, maybe say instead of "things like possession," say "things like possession and switching,".

guide as of 2015-07-07 Wrote:--------------------

What is forcing?

Two of the most common questions that you'll find in this community are, "What is forcing?" and "What is the difference between active and passive forcing?". Forcing is doing anything that contributes to the development of a tulpa, regardless of how involved it may be. Active forcing is where a dedicated amount of time is set away for the host to focus solely on the tulpa—concentrating hard and avoiding any distractions. Passive forcing is where you're working on your tulpa, but not exclusively; a host could be talking to their tulpa or visualizing them as they're doing something else. Giving any attention to your tulpa whatsoever in these stages is beneficial, and it is important to start building the habit of talking to your tulpa as soon as possible. Keep in mind that any step you're at with forcing can be done alongside another. For example, you can narrate while you're visualizing, and visualize while you're working on your tulpa's personality.

We think that people new to this are still going to be confused even after reading this. Even people who already have tulpas without finding tulpamancy communities will have a hard time. That sentence " Forcing is doing anything that contributes to the development of a tulpa, regardless of how involved it may be." leaves too many questions. At its heart, forcing is interaction with a tulpa - generally pretty strong, guided, or dedicated. Emphasize that. Maybe put it as "Forcing is interaction with your tulpa. This causes them to develop even if it isn't very involved." Then with active forcing, give an example of each but emphasize that it is not the only way to do it. With passive forcing, an example would be "Some examples of passive forcing are talking to your tulpa about the events that are occuring during your day as they happen, visualizing them in the room while at work, etc." Then, follow up with active forcing (basically, do the description of passive forcing first).

guide as of 2015-07-07 Wrote:--------------------

Introductory Session

Something that is often recommended to people who are just starting the creation of their own tulpa is an introductory session. It isn't a very hard thing to do and it's entirely optional, but it may be beneficial by forming something of an early bond with the tulpa and giving you an idea of what narration will be like. This step can also get you in the habit of seeing your tulpa as a person, which will help you out a lot later on. It gets the general "essence" of your tulpa in your mind, so it may be easier to direct your thoughts towards them, in the future.

Generally, the host will sit down in a comfortable position, in an environment where there's not a lot of distractions, and they'll start to introduce themselves to their tulpa. A form and name aren't necessary for this step, but keep in mind that you need to direct your thoughts/speech to your tulpa, as you would with anyone else. Tell your tulpa a little bit about yourself—your name, occupation, hobbies, likes and dislikes, and so on. Keep in mind that you can always share more about yourself later, so don't limit it to just this session. Some hosts like to go over the general creation process as well, explaining what steps they will be taking and what creation goals they have in mind.

This is very good. Hail had very good luck with A on this. We did the same sort of thing with our system's accidental tulpa September after she came to be, which helped her some.

guide as of 2015-07-07 Wrote:--------------------

Narration

As shown in the introductory step above, narration is the act of talking to your tulpa, and it is often considered the most important step in tulpa creation. You can either narrate in your head or out loud; it doesn't really matter. It's wise to already have an idea of what you tulpa will be like in your mind, as you'll be directing your thoughts towards its "essence". If you don't have a name or form in mind, it might be a good idea to create one now, even if it's just a placeholder.

You can narrate to your tulpa about anything you'd like—be it the latest movie you've seen, what's going on at work, or any past experiences you've had. It doesn't matter whether the thoughts you're directing to your tulpa are positive or negative; any narration is productive. This means that you can rant to your tulpa about things that are stressing you out during your day, and it won't affect the creation process negatively. Keep in mind that, if you want, you could always read to your tulpa. Also, it is a good idea for you to refer to the body as "our body" or "the body" rather than "my body", because it enforces that the tulpa is there and is like you.

Some people have problems when it comes to remembering that they're supposed to be narrating. To counter this, set up something that can remind you throughout your day. For example, you could tie a string around your finger or set your tulpa's form as a wallpaper—anything that can catch your attention and bring you back into focus.

You should always be trying your hardest to look out for responses. Ask your tulpa what they think of what you're talking about, or what's going on around you. Any question will do as long as it's meant for your tulpa and encourages them to try and reply to you.

How long will you be doing this? Well, you keep on narrating until your tulpa talks; the actual time that it takes varies from person to person, but as long as you keep at it, you'll progress much faster. Once your tulpa is able to talk to you, you can have full-on conversations with them just as you would any other person, and you'll know that you can move on from this step.

This is good. We especially think the "Also, it is a good idea for you to refer to the body as "our body" or "the body" rather than "my body", because it enforces that the tulpa is there and is like you." in particular is good. Very important. It gets hosts into a mindset of sharing and being a team. Also, it can strengthen a bond. We also will add that it can mean a ton to a tulpa. It sure meant a lot to us. It meant that Hail thought of us as people with a stake in things just like she did. Really helped us avoid doubting ourselves.

Now, one thing about the narration bit. Once a tulpa can respond back, narration can of course continue. It is important to emphasize this because at first, a tulpa may not be able to respond much and the continuing narration will continue to help them.

Also, it is a good idea to emphasize here that a tulpa may not communicate vocally. Some tulpas are mute (don't even use mindvoice). September in our system is mute by choice and we know a tulpa in another system who can outright switch and is mute. Some tulpas just don't communicate by some means or another either because they can't or don't have an interest. There are so many other means of communication like communicating in thoughts (tulpish), body language, imposition, etc. Basically, a new host should keep their senses open to communication by all sorts of routes.

guide as of 2015-07-07 Wrote:--------------------

Personality

This step is where you'll be defining the personality of your tulpa. Keep in mind that this step is optional; you can skip this entirely and still have a fully-developed tulpa at some point. Some would even go as far as to <i>suggest</i> skipping this, as there's a good chance that the personality of your tulpa will deviate from what traits you put in. However, since you're still providing the attention needed for a tulpa to thrive and grow, it may be a very good thing for you to do.

The first thing to do is gather a good number of personality traits. It doesn't matter how many traits you choose; you'll be the one to decide how much work you put into this step, after all. Examples of personality traits are 'decisive', 'honest', 'stubborn', etc. Keep in mind that you should not force your tulpa into a role. These traits are here to suggest to your tulpa what they should be.

Once you have a good list of traits set up, you can get to work. Sit down and explain the traits to your tulpa. Define them; show how a trait would affect their perception of different events, their likes and dislikes, their hobbies, and so on. It's very important to have a good idea as to how these traits will manifest. Keep on reinforcing these traits until you have a good idea of the personality in your head; it's not required that you memorize every little thing about each trait. Keep in mind that the point of personality work is to get a full idea of what your tulpa will be like.

Another thing that you could use for personality is symbolism, which is something that is unique to each host. An example of this would be visualizing a cauldron in your mind, and having each trait liquefied in little bottles. As you're explaining the traits, or giving your tulpa a rough idea of them, pour them into the cauldron, and allow them to mix into one. This is only one way you can do it; there are many other ways to represent your tulpa's personality. Just keep in mind that you should do whatever works best for you.

Again, pretty good overall. This worked quite well with A in our system. However, we do think more emphasis should be given that this personality forcing is just a template personality - that the tulpa will then change themselves as they see fit. The idea is akin to priming an engine of a lawnmower before starting. Makes it easier, but isn't absolutely necessary. Also, there needs to be more emphasis on not forcing a tulpa to adopt that personality.

guide as of 2015-07-07 Wrote:--------------------

Visualization

This step is where you'll be imagining your tulpa's form in your mind—visualizing it until you are able to 'see' it, and recall it with ease. If you daydream often, this is likely to be easier for you, since you already have a lot of experience with vizualisation. It will still take time to perfect, however, so don't be discouraged if you can't get your tulpa's form right on the first try. It's like any other skill: it's not going to be perfect on the first go, but you'll get better and better with it as you practice.

Assuming that you've already chosen a form for your tulpa, or they're vocal and independent enough to where they were able to choose one on their own, sit down in an environment where there are little to no distractions, and close your eyes. Try and visualize your tulpa to the best of your ability. Some people like to use a wonderland—a setting that you create with your imagination. It's not required that you have one; you could simply use a black void. Again, it's about whatever you're comfortable with.

It might be a good idea to visualize your tulpa in chunks—meaning that you have one session dedicated to visualizing the face in full detail, another for the torso, arms, and so on. You don't have to do this, though; there are plenty of people who have visualized their tulpa all at once and have received the same results. You can also create a voice for you tulpa, as well as a scent and taste, if desired. When it comes to imaginary senses, there's always room for improvement, so feel free to do this at any time.

This part was good, especially the plug to daydreaming. The chunks method helps a lot of people. Just one thing, in the last paragraph. Instead of saying "the face", do "their face". Should be that way with their torso and other body parts as well.

guide as of 2015-07-07 Wrote:--------------------

Closing

You'll find that this a very interesting experience—one that can be both beneficial and introspective. Your tulpa will become more mature, and adjust to the world as time goes on. Try not to compare your progress to others; everyone goes at their own pace!

This part is good.




Overall, the guide is pretty good. Just a few refinements necessary.

Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others
System Name: Fall Family
Former Username: hail_fall
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07-08-2015, 03:10 AM
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