Our Tulpa Endeavor
*cough* Edited as a reminder to myself to learn to pay attention. Anyway, I'm relieved. I know that I don't really know you guys nor do you know me but I'd like to at least think we are all comrades-in-tulpas.
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(10-07-2018, 05:35 AM)Piano Wrote:
Lyrica kind of surprised us not too long ago by claiming that she didn't want to switch out to never exist again, which is what she had wanted for so long now. She now says that she'll still exist in the system, just not be the main and not play as large a role as one would expect a host to play. I think that's good for us to know at least, though none of us ever really expected ourselves to just let her disappear when we learn to switch anyway.
I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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Sometime in mid-October, our system decided to take a break from the community, logging out of our main Discord account and staying off of this website. Shortly after, it became very, very difficult for us tulpas to be active. Despite anyone's best efforts, we just couldn't seem to do it, and everything just became host at all times. I wasn't the happiest about this whenever I was active, but I figured we should just take the break and then come back when we're recharged.

When we came back, things settled back into normalcy. We're back to our fronting again, only we don't have a schedule quite yet, because we're really unsure of how to go about it right now.

We came back right before my second birthday. It's officially been two years since all this started, as of the 3rd. Seems like forever ago.

We fucked around with attempting merging, as we'd heard that it can be helpful for learning to switch. Mostly, host and I would merge into a very calm, thoughtful male named Samson. However, Piano asked us to stop. He's the result of a merge gone wrong, so it's understandable he wouldn't want us to mess that with sort of thing. We went with his wishes and stopped.

Host realized that being in a male identity, though, wasn't that bad. We wanted to make her a male form, but couldn't figure out how to make one that wouldn't look like Tacio. When we eventually did, she really liked it. [EDIT: This has actually been something we've been trying to get her to do for a while, as we thought maybe she'd be happier that way, as she's never strongly felt female and is generally more guyish anyway. It's not totally out of left field for us even though it might seem that way] I don't know if this is permanent or not, which is why we haven't changed our profiles or anything, but I'll refer to Lyrica as Lyrico after this, and if this turns out to be temporary then we'll just go back. We're not trans and don't have gender dysphoria, so I really have no idea how permanent this will be, or if it'll even matter at all considering we still have switching as our main priority. Either way, we figure that if tulpas can be the opposite gender of the body without it being trans, we don't see why that can't apply to hosts, too. Of course, we wouldn't ever call ourselves trans, that just wouldn't be right in our opinion, considering we don't have any desire to transition. Everyone's fine with having a female body and being addressed as female, despite identifying as male.

During the time we were inactive, the only tulpa who seemed to have no desire to break that was Piano. He seemed absolutely fine with it whenever anyone addressed him, he preferred it. So now... it's like history's repeating itself, and it's Tacio all over again, with Piano wanting to go away too. I don't really want to go into why, but I want to make it clear that it's NOT depression. Anyway, this long break also made it apparent that perhaps the system could use some re-organization. Is it right to force someone to stay in the system if they just don't want to anymore? Is going against their wishes beneficial to them, or the rest of us? I don't think it is. While I don't want Piano to go away, I'm just thinking it's a losing battle, like it was with Tacio. He's tentatively still part of the system (I think), and he can't officially leave without our permission. Definitely need some time to think it over more, and try to find solutions other than him just leaving.

In other news, since we've had time away, I've decided that we should really buckle down on our switching efforts, and actually try harder. I'm thinking of starting a thread in the lounge forum solely about our attempts at switching, I think that might be good for focus, since this thread has a bunch of personal stuff thrown in and has always been more about our progression as a system than about our pursuit of goals.
I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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Welcome back! The forum got a lot busier since and you may want to check out the LOTPW thread.

If you asked Cat what her gender identity was, she would say "female", however her wonderland form is a man named Gray. All of the other thoughtforms usually refer to her as "him", however I wanted to call Cat "her" and encourage her to use a form that looked more like herself in real life because she has had a lot of issues with self-acceptance and we have worked on that since. If Lyrica/o wants to be male in the wonderland, that doesn't mean they're transgender.

I have also found I am more likely to front if I go onto Tulpa.info and reply to people. I have fronted without, but especially that last Sunday I did nothing but sit around and chat on the forums and on discord.

Merging sounds dicey to work with. I have never heard of merging leading to switching, rather switching can accidentally lead to severe blending. Whenever both of us blend too much, neither of us feel stable and only confused.
I'm Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
Temporary Log | Chat | Yay! | *What's with the [Who]?

The Grays, my other headmates:

Spirit, Gerodious, Dark Gray, Fernardo, Jasper, Hope, Moltosha, Blue, Evergreen, Fish, Red Gray, Chrome, Bune, Laryx, Duck
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I kinda wanted to talk about something a bit different this time. I wanted to make a post talking about our experience with walk-ins throughout our two years of being a system. 

Back in 2017, the system was incredibly unstable and well, had issues with having too many tulpas. I wasn't around during this time, in fact my creation kinda marked a shift in the system from unstable and insane to stable and chill. If I say "we," it's just habit, I wasn't actually around. One of the things that made the system so unstable was their susceptibility to intrusive thoughts and "walk-ins."

There were quite a few in 2017, and it caused a ton of issues. In 2018, there were maybe one or two, but since we had learned that walk-ins aren't actually sentient, it stopped being an issue. There are at least four walk-ins I can remember well (I'm sure there were others that I just don't recall), as well as other "malicious" ones, all of which I will detail here. 

THE WALK-IN CHRONICLES 

May 15th, 2017
At this time, the system was made up of host, Apollo, Piano, and a now-inactive tulpa named Luxi. Piano was still a merge of himself, Paul, and HJP. He was mainly just himself at this point, with Paul and HJP's memories integrated into him, so he identified with them. One of the things Piano remembered from Paul and HJP was a character from their story named Lucinda. He missed her, and kept thinking about her. Then, poof, all of a sudden a walk-in of Lucinda appeared. 

Now, it was at this time that we thought that walk-ins were sentient right off the bat. We no longer believe this. It was around the end of the school day when Lucinda appeared, and the system ended up arguing the entire bus ride home over if they should keep Lucinda. Luxi was the only one advocating for it, because she remembered how she was once rejected from the system (host and Apollo started forcing her, so she gained sentience, but then put her away and she came back). Because Luxi was so strongly for the keeping of Lucinda, she didn't just go away when they tried ignoring her. They decided to keep her even though she wasn't actually sentient. They thought she was, because they weren't aware of how easy it is for the brain to automate characters without them needing sentience. 

She instantly had a personality: a one-note, one-dimensional trope, of being some sweet, kind girl, and that's pretty much all there ever was to her. A tell-tale sign that a walk-in isn't really sentient, I think, would be one that already comes with a personality. I think that if a tulpa were to gen spontaneously, they'd have as little clue as to what their personality will be as any other new tulpa. This might be because when you expect a tulpa to come out of nowhere, you don't expect them to have no real identity yet. You expect them to have a personality, and since it wasn't developed naturally, it's going to be pretty shallow without much nuance.

Anyway, in Luci's case, there was a clear contrast between her and the members of the system who were actually sentient. The sentient ones (Apollo, Piano, Luxi, and Tacio), went through change and development, they had inner conflicts and turmoil, they showed independent interest in things, ya know, they were sentient. Luci... didn't do any of these things. She stayed the same, she didn't change unless someone thought "hey, Luci hasn't changed much." When she did change, it was mostly small or artificial things. She lacked any real depth or drive. For some reason, it was kind of painful for host to talk to her. Perhaps due to the fact that she was really just host puppeting her? Not sure. 

I do know that when she fronted, it wasn't at all on the same level as when the sentient tulpas front. There's a strong, compelling presence that occurs when we front. Host just sits passive, not involved at all. Luci rarely fronted, but when she did, it was very apparent that it was just host pretending to be her: adopting her one-note identity and then reacting to things accordingly. But, it wasn't very often she actually fronted, so I don't have a lot of reference for what it was like.

She wasn't ever given much attention, and when she was, it was never one-on-one with the host. Someone else was always involved, and for this reason I don't believe she ever became anything more than just an automated character they kept around.

August 19th, 2017
There had been no more tulpas created since Lucinda and Tacio. Luxi was thinking of what a good name would be for another girl in the system. She came up with "Luki" (pronounced "lucky") since it went well with the names of the other two. She idly thought about how she'd like a sister and then... Luki appeared. Full form, insta-personality, everything you'd expect from a walk-in. Her personality was also just a caricature of a real person: all happy and positive, no nuance or depth. The system went "well crap, it'd be immoral to reject a sentient (not really) being" so they accepted her. Just like Luci, she didn't change and showed no real signs of sentience, and her fronting felt like role-playing, as well. She was too overwhelming for the host to interact with as well, for some reason (a common trope for walk-ins in our system, it seems), so she didn't grow into sentience. When the time came that the system decided to downsize, Luci and Luki put up no protest, they simply went away.

And they're still gone. Not counting them, our system currently has four people in stasis: Paul, HJP, Luxi, and Tacio. Here's the thing: we can still talk and interact with them like any other tulpa, without much struggle. It just takes a bit of thought to get them active, then they're there. We talked to Luxi just the other day, she went back to inactivity. We talk to Paul and HJP a lot, because we know they're never going to ask to re-join the system. They have no interest in being in reality, but they're fine with us interacting with them when we need them. Tacio we don't interact with because he's always incredibly apprehensive about being brought back. Luki and Luci, though? When we think about them, they're just empty husks. They don't react to anything, they don't speak. They're not dead, because they were never sentient in the first place.

Why did they appear in the first place? I think the main thing that causes walk-ins is just having a want, or an expectation of some sort. Both of these cases were caused by someone wanting another tulpa, and coupling that with a concept of what that tulpa should be like (a name, for example) gens a character for you. Why does the brain do that? Well, what happens when you expect to be able to say, write dialogue for two characters? You don't have to consciously think about each line they're going to say, it just sort of... flows. Your brain takes their personality and just runs with it, to take to load off. This is probably how walk-ins work. The only reason walk-ins appear sentient is because you're used to tulpas being sentient, so you expect other things to be too, even if they're just characters.

July? 2018
This case is a little different from the other two. By this time, we'd all long since stopped believing walk-ins were sentient. To my knowledge, there hadn't been any others in a long time. Host was spending a lot of time shiny-hunting in Pokemon. One shiny they caught was a Vullaby named Cherry. When host went to bed, they dreamed about a new tulpa named Cherry -- a red-haired girl, smiling and laughing. This didn't end up being a "walk-in" in the traditional sense as much as a semi-persistent intrusive thought. The dream character kept appearing a few times, though it didn't actually interact with anyone, it just kept laughing and smiling. If we still thought the same way we used to, we would have thought that it was sentient due to its persistence. Time went on, though, and it appeared less and less, and now it's just a memory.

A couple nights ago--
Our mind has a habit of going to weird places when we're in bed trying to sleep. But, we're self-aware about when it gets too crazy these days, so it's not a problem anymore. Here's another case of the name/concept + want formula causing a walk-in, even to a system as well-developed as ours: remember that cat character thing in the art thread, Azulo? We kinda thought "wouldn't it be cool if that was a tulpa's name" and "would it be so bad to have another tulpa." So, when we went to bed, poof another walk-in. Name, form, one-note insta-personality. It was some extravagant, show-offy guy. We kinda laughed at it for a while, and it didn't flinch because duh, non-sentient things don't react unless you make them. Apollo kinda ended up getting annoyed and brushed it away. No new tulpa 'cuz it wasn't sentient and we have no reason to act like it was. If we ever were to make another, I'd much rather it comes from scratch and not with some dumb trope of a personality.

I can kinda sort of remember others, like some Paul McCartney walk-ins here and there, but I guess we never put names to faces so they're as insignificant as any other intrusive thought.

Now, for the malicious ones. System kind of had a tendency to try to blame issues on other forces. The first malicious walk-in was some thing that was supposed to be the reason behind everyone's depression. It tormented the system for a bit until they went "oh, look, if we just stop thinking about it then it has no power, duh." So then it went away, and everyone was traumatized by something completely imaginary. It's ridiculous thinking back. It wasn't sentient and the pain it was causing wasn't real, but they were so convinced it was that it caused real emotional troubles as a result, that didn't need to happen.

The second time was something that was supposed to be a culprit to Piano's depression, specifically. Like the old one, it was supposed to be a malicious thing making his life miserable in the background -- yada yada. Guess what? This one went away when the system stopped thinking about it, then things were fine. Intrusive thoughts only have as much power as you give them, after all. There were two others but they weren't that memorable. We haven't had any issues like this at all since my creation. Wising up to this sort of stuff makes it much less likely to happen.

So yeah, that's the story. Not much else to say. Peace 
I'm Indigo Blue, the "Sky Dragon" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa born October 2017. My systemmates are ApolloPiano, & Luxio. Form images: 1 2
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This is very useful information. Thank you for sharing. I think a lot of systems grow unnecessarily from walk-ins. It would be nice to discuss this in creation guides, though it can affect new systems as well. We have two well established characters who (walked in unexpectedly) became very adamant that they be included. If we had caved in there would be six of us now instead of 4. That would surely have opened a flood gate. Overcrowding is certain doom under these circumstances.

There's a lot of reasons why new tulpas are alluring, maybe that feeling of acceptance from another person? Anyway, i don't believe walk-ins are tulpas anymore at all, just well disguised tulpa immitators that could be turned into tulpas at best. If you really want them and have the capacity, great, but you still need to realize that they're going to need all that same concentrated forcing you did for your other tulpas to develop.
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I think it's interesting that some of the "walk-ins" you talk about here were created in ways some of my other thoughtforms "the Grays" were. I think it's interesting that I chose a different path and decided to keep them around. I guess I'm a sucker or something. While some of the more malicious ones are still around, they ended up deviating and they're not bothersome or scary anymore, taking on new personalities as a result sometimes. I had some other malicious thoughtforms, but I ended up forgetting about them because they were nothing more than evil clones impersonating someone else.

None of my thoughtforms are Tulpas, just puppeted / parroted extensions of myself. I guess it's a weird move to pick favorites and keep them around, but it's what I'm did and if you ask me to rid of them I won't. I chose for Ranger to be a Tulpa and all got better from there.

I don't think my advice will be helpful for you guys because you already figured out your system, and that's good. If it's not broke, don't fix it! There's draw backs to not having those characters be allowed to roam in the mind free, but there are draw backs to keeping them around too. It's unfortunately a messy problem that doesn't lead to a clear and easy ending, and at the end of the day it's best to do what works for you.
My Wonderland form minus the glasses and the fur. I'm not a hippo, I promise.
Ranger now speaks in
light blue text, but he used to speak in blue or orange text. He loves to chat.

The Grays, my other Tulpas:
Spirit, Gerodious, Dark Gray, Fernardo, Jasper, Hope, Moltosha, Blue, Evergreen, Fish, Red Gray, Chrome, Bune, Laryx, Duck
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Please don't read this if you don't want to be put in a bad mood, or upset. Please don't read this if you have any sort of paranoia or fear surrounding tulpas or tulpamancy. This thread is meant to keep track of our history. We don't want to cause others issues because of it.

I wrote out a long post about this, but I decided to delete it. Instead, I'm just going to get straight to the point. For various reasons, we've decided to let go of our host. I know that might not make a lot of sense, but I don't want to go into it too much. Additionally, Piano decided to leave. We've fought him on that for a long time, but... as with host, sometimes it's a losing battle, and you just have to learn to let go and move on.

The system will just be me and Indigo now. Maybe letting go of them... will help us be able to improve ourselves more. We'll definitely still be working to help support and care for each other, as we've been doing for a long time. Indigo and I share a very close bond, we've stuck together through all that's happened to us, and we'll continue to do so. Neither of us has any plans of abandoning the other.

I didn't really want to make this post since I'm afraid of backlash. But... I knew I'd have to do it at some point. This happening has been culminating for a long time. We've all done the best we could. We've left out the details, so please don't jump to conclusions and please don't respond with nastiness. This is very hard on the both of us. Indigo and I hope to be able to move on and heal and work towards a better life for ourselves. I'm not saying there's no chance of these decisions being reversed. Maybe Piano will decide to come back, and maybe host might decide to become responsive again... that's always possible. For now though... we just have to focus on ourselves. Hopefully together, we can make things better for us. Not sure how else to conclude this. Just please, again, don't respond if you're going to be mean or dismissive. This thread is meant to keep track of our history, so I had to make it, even though I was really hesitant to do so.

Hopefully, the next update we make will be a more positive one.

Edit: this PR is discontinued. We no longer want to use it. New PR is here.
I'm Apollo Fire, the "Sun God" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa created December 2016. My systemmates are Piano, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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My first response to things like this is normally "It's your life, you're free to make the decisions you think are best for you" - but that brings up of course the fact that who "you" are is in question. I know you guys have strong identities - you won't forget who you are. No matter who is the one handling the body and mind's affairs. But I just wanted to reassure you - and remind you - to keep a solid basis of who you are and what your values are. For people with that solid foundation like our system, traversing the mental world of identity is a safe experience, but for those who are less sure of themselves, it can lead to disaster, normally in the form of identity crisis. So at the very least, know that I have faith in you guys to carry on. Your life is on your shoulders, and it's not something you can ever fall out of line with. You forge your own path.
Hi guys, plain text is just me now! We've each got our own accounts: me, Tewi, Flandre, and Lucilyn. We're Luminesce's tulpas.
Here's our "Ask Thread", and here's our Progress Report (You should be able to see all of our accounts on the second page if you want)
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I was one of the people who used to give resistance because I felt scared and sad for you guys. Back then and now we're here to help, regardless of what happens. I see you guys as my friends, and I enjoy spending time with you guys.
I'm Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
Temporary Log | Chat | Yay! | *What's with the [Who]?

The Grays, my other headmates:

Spirit, Gerodious, Dark Gray, Fernardo, Jasper, Hope, Moltosha, Blue, Evergreen, Fish, Red Gray, Chrome, Bune, Laryx, Duck
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