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[Personality] Planting a Tulpa Seed and How to Listen to It
J.Iscariot Offline
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#31
 
RE: Planting a tulpa seed and how to listen to it
This message will be directed at both Waffles and Ayre. Both of you have my sympathy for bothering to respond and considering what I had to say, and I hold respect for that behavior. I really do appreciate it.

Waffles, what initially sets me off is not the fact that OP calls it a self-deception. I did mention that I respect all views and that I was glad someone was openly voicing what they thought, although I very much understand how I came off and gave the impression that all that mattered was what OP said. Of course, that would drive my entire post somewhat incorrect, but the main concern I came to face while reading this guide was the entire Interaction part. Interaction with a being that is not (yet) until it starts being is pretty much parroting if you imagine their answers by yourself and take every thought as theirs. That is not for me to criticize on a general consensus of 'tulpamancy' aside from the one the community put in place. Whether people oppose or accept parroting isn't any of my concern, what I stated is essentially that you have a multitude of guides that come in opposition with one another. Whether OP regards their tulpa as a delusion does not concern me but it's very, very, very off-track to say that one is not parroting with all the content presented in the guide.

I will quote the content that did set me off at first, and even more later on:

The Interaction part Wrote:__The next thing to consider is your tulpa seed’s intentions, and motivations. Write out the answers to the following questions. Why do they do what they do? What do they strive for and/or want? Maybe they always want to do the right thing. Maybe they want people to think that they are smart/insightful. They could just want to have a good time and relax. Perhaps they want to make people laugh. They could just want to be accepted, or fit in. Maybe something selfish or even sinister. Who knows? It’s up to you to figure this out.

' Wrote:This next step takes your tulpa seed to a new level, and makes it even more realistic. The answer to this question will probably take time, but it is worth considering in detail. How do they intentionally present themselves, and how would you expect others to view them versus how they want to be viewed?

That is a pretty clear indication to parroting to me. Defining what a tulpa is going to be like, as in personality and trait lists, is nothing wrong. But what does set me back is the whole 'imagine how they're going to be and that's how they're gonna be'. The reason for which I oppose this is that I tried it in the past. I find it a bit funny how people will jump to conclusions to say I'm an elitist, when I tried everything that was posted already. My point is less that parroting is a topic I personally have issues with and more that there will be a conflict with what the community has to present. It's not something negative to me because 'boooo parroting', but because of how the community has guides that oppose parroting as a major part of development.

As for what you said, you could very much be right, Waffles. Perhaps I am giving this too much importance and the conception of such beings in one's mind requires no effort. I am not even being sarcastic, maybe that really is what this is about and I was wrong, and I wouldn't mind being wrong. But I feel like I am decisively right, although that sounds arrogant, on the fact that this guide poses a conflict with other guides, and I feel like this is something everyone should keep in mind, with no offense to any parties.

As for Ayre, and that is something I wanted to clear up for a while on the elitism stand:


' Wrote:This is by definition, Elitism. Don't kid yourself. This is how I created my own tulpa, by extension, you are calling my tulpa a daemon that is labeled as a tulpa; this is disrespectful. You have no right to create your own definitions of tulpas and force this on anyone else.

Let us define an elitist.

a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society.

a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class.


There happen to be different definitions that come in very close to those two for the noun. With that in mind, if you are to define me as an elitist, I would need to fit a certain criteria; that I would supposedly regard my tulpa as something grandiose and dimension-altering, that I would brag about her all day on the forums (and trust me, there is a lot to brag about), that I would constantly put other thoughtforms down and make it a pyramidal model with tulpas supposedly on top. How do I fit any of that? Have I not mentioned that I feel like one should keep an open mind towards thoughtforms and that I respected all thoughtforms and treated them equally in my interactions with them? Do you even know what an elitist is in real-life? They tend to be more self-centered and narcissistic in a way that they self-promote often and classify themselves as another part of society. That is not what I am doing. I admit that I have strict views, but that does not mean that I think one thing is delusion and the other thing is tulpagod paying me a visit. I won't make much of a comment on that furthermore, but it gets tiring when people, with due respect, run to the elitist excuse as a means of reducing one's credibility. I'm not calling people who oppose me elitists, some people could fit in that criteria in all communities (speaking of sites like reddit and other communities, no offense to anyone here), you're not going after THEM. You only oppose a position once it is expressed openly, the same way you express your position. Would you not also be an elitist? Let's not go into calling people names. When I talk to people online, I don't think that I should include a personal element, although it used to rise often at inappropriate times. Treat others as you would like for them to treat you.

I am not comparing your tulpa to a daemon, that was an analogy that transcribed what I meant, that you are posting a guide to create a tulpa when to me it seems to be something else. But THAT is my own opinion and not the point of my post, conflict of different guides etc.

You can say that what you have fits very well, and you are the only person who is apt to do so. But trust me, when you say that a tulpa is a delusion... people don't understand. People don't get it that it can be something complex that goes beyond a simple delusion. Show the term 'delusion' to any outsider, some dude who has a slight interest in tulpamancy but skeptical... do you know... are you aware of how many times this practice has been called self-deception? How often more shall it happen in the case the community officially supports a guide that promotes just that type of belief.

I feel like you are associating too much to your personal experience. I did not fixate myself on one sentence in your whole guide, and apologize for my lack of clarity. I made sure to quote other things that bothered me, and there are more things that bother me, mainly the ideology you present in your guide and not that 'one sentence'.

I have not made any guides, nor will I make any, but am writing something important. I won't try to get it accepted by the community, it'll just be there and people can do what they want out of it. So I do not see the relevance in what you say.

Please take none of it as something personal. If it is to you, it really is not to me.

I just woke up so excuse any mistakes.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2016, 07:57 AM by J.Iscariot.)
03-12-2016, 07:57 AM
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Drakaina Offline
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#32
 
RE: Planting a tulpa seed and how to listen to it
@J.Iscariot
*applauds*
I really liked your post. Preservation of terminology and meaning is something that's very important to me, especially in communities that are based a subjective experience/phenomena.

One of the lines in the guide that sent up a red flag for me is this one.

Quote:...created by the host for various reasons that become indistinguishable from a separate being over time.

"becomes indistinguishable from a separate being". This implies that it is still (at least in part) the original being, which Tulpa are not by this part of the definition.
"In short, a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head, separate from you."

Quote:...all experienced hosts agree on pointless semantics...

Because semantics aren't pointless. In a phenomena of subjective experiences like tulpamancy they're especially important. Physical things that we can touch and confirm can have terms used more fluidly because there's always a base to jump back to. Machintosh, Granny Smith, Red Delicious, they all come back to apple, which we can see, touch, and associate. Tulpa however cannot be touched, or seen, only experienced. So the terms and semantics about them need to be constant or the community and experience will degrade and become meaningless over time.
You see it in the tumblrkin community every day. It's the difference between identifying WITH something and identifying AS something. I have enough experience in this to know that if you allow terminology to dilute it will end badly for the whole community. I've said this before to Melian and I'll say it to you too Tulpa =/= Better. Thought forms can be tulpa-like, or soul bonds, or daemons, and be no less valid. Just different.

It's not elitist for someone to value and try to uphold the integrity of a terminology, concept, or the spirit behind a phenomena. I find that people only cry elitism when they feel they're not good enough, and Iscariot made it extremely clear many times in his post that this was not what he was saying, nor is it the case with tulpa-like beings.

Really this whole guide sounds much more like how to make a soul bond. It's only missing the backstory section. =/

Grammar and Spellchecks follow

Last line of II. Personality
Should be "so you should strive for..." not "but you should strive for".

also,
"A tulpa that is very proper and desires to seem intelligent..." you can probably just use the word "wants" here. Otherwise it's phrased "a tulpa that is very proper and has a desire to[b] seem intelligent".

Contact.
Around the middle of the paragraph, "I take this [b]rational
even into my conversations..."
I think you mean rationale.

A couple sentences in paragraph 2 of this section.
"...there is a high likely hood that it is.."
It's "likelihood", not "likely hood"

Same Paragraph past the half way point.
"...then checking seeing if..." Just forgot the "to" here.

ii. Deviations
First sentence. "I’ve have a complete 180 "
Just a typo here, should be "I've had".

iii. Doubts
3rd sentence. "if I really could hear mine are pointless"
Just need a comma between "mine" and "are"

Same section, middle of the paragraph
" connection with my tulpa, and trough that I have gained "
Just a typo, should be "through" (also thank you from the bottom of my heart for not spelling it "thru")

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

-Howe's Egg Principle
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2016, 09:09 AM by Drakaina.)
03-12-2016, 08:58 AM
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Ayre Offline
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#33
 
RE: Planting a tulpa seed and how to listen to it
In an attempt to keep this strictly about the guide, I'll drop all other points and let my guide speak for itself.

(03-12-2016, 07:57 AM)J.Iscariot Wrote: That is a pretty clear indication to parroting to me. Defining what a tulpa is going to be like, as in personality and trait lists, is nothing wrong. But what does set me back is the whole 'imagine how they're going to be and that's how they're gonna be'.

I will now quote directly from the guide:

"This established identity isn't the fully formed tulpa, but the basis of were the real tulpa comes from."

"All you are doing here is planting a seed and nourishing it. You may not be able to control how many flowers are bloomed, or how big the apples are, but you have the choice of planting a tulip seed or an apple seed. This is where deviations come into play "

"you don't have control of the end product, but you can help steer it in a positive direction. With time, this starting personality will evolve into much more"

"It's probably a good idea to give your tulpa the best head-start that you can by being as thorough as possible when creating a foundational personality, or a tulpa seed."
(Maybe I should define "tulpa seed" more explicitly.)

" If it fits, then there is a high likely hood that it is your tulpa, but even so it might be a good idea to ask for clarification at first to be sure."

"If the response does not fit, then ask for clarification to be sure. Always be mindful of deviations. In essence, you should treat your tulpa like you would treat anyone in life that you are having a hard time understanding."

"Guessing what they have said based on context and what you know about them, then checking seeing if you understood them correctly would be a good middle ground."

"You are talking to your tulpa and waiting for a response, and checking at first to see if you got it right."


I think you missed these parts of the guide. Where is the parroting? Where are you deliberately forcing your tulpa to talk? Because you assume, then check? And even if it was parroting, is opposing views between guides a bad thing? Also, 'imagine how they're going to be and that's how they're gonna be' in nowhere in my guide, it's not even implied. It's more 'imagine how they're going to be and that's how they might be unless they deviate'

Drakaina, thank you for the grammar and spelling corrections. These will be worked on when I get off of work later.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2016, 12:20 PM by Ayre.)
03-12-2016, 12:10 PM
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J.Iscariot Offline
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#34
 
RE: Planting a tulpa seed and how to listen to it
You see, even if you let your guide 'speak for you', it won't really make much of a difference. My point is that you are literally parroting tulpas into existence, you are trying to use deviations as something to take the reader's attention on so that they may not see that they are going deep into self-deception, something you promoted. Even then, regardless, I don't have one and one point only in this whole thing; to put it shortly and simply, you have a guide that promotes parroting, regardless of how well that can work out for people (and regardless of how much harm it can cause), the other guides, guides that served as the foundation for this community, oppose in ways that parroting as a 'main method' is discouraged. You think that self-deception is a viable technique, so be it, but how will that affect the reader? Again, you need to understand that people don't see those things. Someone hears about sentient imaginary friends, comes on tulpa.info and reads a guide that tells them that a tulpa is self-deception, that they should imagine what their tulpa is doing and plan out their every single action... how can anyone NOT think that this is fooling yourself until you forget that it's you and not an alien entity?

I will address every quote, and will numerate them accordingly.

1: That has little to do with the conception method as a whole, in my opinion. Again, a beginner will look into this and think 'oh, this is self-deception, turns out this phenomenon was a big internet joke' or something of the type. According to this quote, the basis of the tulpa comes from self-deception and controlled impressions and interpretations the host builds. At least, that's what your guide says.

2: That analogy has very little impact because size and quantity are not what we look at in a tree; to qualify a tree of being an apple tree, it needs to have apples. The main impression one can get is that 'okay, you're planting red apple seeds and you're going to mimick literally every single step of growth of that tree until it coooould deviate, possibly, but not assuredly'. I don't really understand the size/quantity thing, according to your method the size and quantity could deviate but just because it deviated with you doesn't mean it will deviate with everyone. Was this written out of thorough research or just personal experience?

3: I am speaking of the conception phase, not of the 'final' product. The 'final product' is an entirely different discussion, one we had in PM already, and this is not the place to have it. The personality will evolve because you seek its evolution, your brain is ready to storm those type of ideas since you're consciously looking out for them. You expect deviation, you get deviations. You expect head pressures, you get head pressures. The conception phase comes off as imagining someone talking in your mind, and considering that whatever they say or toss at you is legitimate. COMES OFF, I could be misinterpreting, but that is the impression an outsider MIGHT get. Because this is a guide for people who want to make tulpas, or seek other methods, or so I thought.

4: No idea what this has to do with my point.

5: How do you ask for clarification? Do you assume your tulpa is there since stage one? Not fully, but that's the impression I first got when I read your guide at first. How do you ask for clarification? Do you just imagine it and interpret what comes from your imagination as them? Is there a way to truly know? And is this not association of imagination in all its domain to tulpamancy directly? Which is something people might feel repulsed by, ultimately. Imagination has a lot of meanings but people tend to distance themselves from it when it comes to, y'know, live intelligent people in one's head. Being imagined is different from being truly alive. What about intrusive thoughts? Say I ask for a clarification and I get an intrusive thought, how do I know anything from anything???

6: So you're making a guess on what your tulpa said. How different would this guess come off to be from the supposed 'tulpa's clarification'? Moreover, are your guesses not forming the tulpa's character throughout imagination and false interpretation (or rather, an interpretation that is one-sided more than it is 'shared')? So logically speaking, whatever you assign to the tulpa as 'guesses' would be something that you 'force' in them (force as in tulpaforce), and there would be no practical way to clarify things from a young tulpa. I am not speaking of the 'product', why would I care about that when the guide is about how to create a tulpa under the form of self-deception? You need to understand the gravity of your words. Not because people will dislike them, but because there are a lot of people who come on this site to learn more about tulpas, and if a COMMUNITY SUPPORTED GUIDE tells them that this is a delusion, what reason do they have to stay? Do you think that they're going to share the same views you do? Assuredly not, perhaps they're not as experienced in this domain (no shit) so they'd take anything. Is that also not a step forward the community taking literally, literally all types of thoughtforms as tulpas? Preservation of terminology, as Drakaina said.

7: Little to do with my point that is solely about conception, so-called 'interaction' with a thoughtform whose responses are simulated from your side, at least, that's what it seems to be like.

The parroting is you imagining a tulpa, imagining its responses and letting your imagination rule out what the tulpa is. Not only that, but it is the strict imposition of those traits in a pseudo-realistic midst, being imagination. I'm speaking about conception and the 'interaction' part, at first, you're purely deluding yourself via imagining your tulpa's 'responses', those responses being something YOU imagine and not them. Not the product, the conception phase you spoke of in your guide at first.

Do you, uh, talk to someone and consider what they said, and think about whether it truly was them or if it was just your mind? If you have all that type of hesitance in your method, if you have all of this consideration and 'checking' (something other guides don't put an emphasis on because often hosts believe in their tulpas as more than self-willed delusions as you put it, aside from intrusive thoughts but thats another story), is that not a bit of an effort? I swear to the holy spirit that this could look, to any outsider, as pure, pure self-deception. You're not seeing it because it's working out for you, whether you are deluded or not is not something I would dare to define, but in the case you are... other people aren't. You're taking something that applies to you into a more or less 'universal' way of creating a tulpa, even though as Drakaina said, this method would be great for a soulbond minus backstory.


I addressed all of your points. I don't really understand why all of my points were dropped aside from you running to using parts of your guide, so I'd like for everyone to re-read them in order for them not to be buried down as I believe that they have somewhat of a point of view that makes sense and is important to keep in mind. It's not about what it is, it's about how outsiders may interpret it. I'm sorry to say this but it really looks like you put no effort in considering how this guide would be accepted, how people would welcome it and how it would affect new tulpamancers if it got accepted as an actual substantial guide. Especially considering the first draft of your guide that was admittedly inferior to this well-improved version, but still flawed in my regards. I think that there is absolutely nothing else for me to discuss if you just drop all of my points, as it is a discussion I would not like to have if my arguments fall on deaf ears. There is nothing left for me to discuss, I made my points time and again in the past and now.


I'm no GAT so whatever I say is just an opinion. But whether GAT members understand where I'm getting at or not is what matters. At least, to me, because this is, and excuse me but I really need to say this, a decline for all the efforts people put into making this a legit, nice community of people who stay away from intrusive thoughts and the likes.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2016, 02:01 PM by J.Iscariot.)
03-12-2016, 01:59 PM
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Glitterbutt Offline
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#35
 
RE: Planting a tulpa seed and how to listen to it
I do -gasp- see Iscariot's primary point he is trying to convey that this guide is a contradiction to most other guides with an emphasis on parroting early in the process of tulpa creation. I can see that such contradictions between guides could be confusing to new members even. I disagree with him that it should be discarded (if that is what Iscariot is saying) as a significant number of tulpamancers do in fact believe their tulpas are self deception and self delusion. Parroting becomes far less of an issue if your tulpa is considered to be self deception. In fact, it is pretty much irrelevant. All you are looking for is for the illusion to begin to take on a life of its own and apparently act independently of your imagination. Two polls on this forum taken a couple of years apart indicate that about 20% of tulpamancers hold this view or have experienced tulpas in their mind they consider to be self deception.

I think it is important to recognize this minority of tulpamancers who have this approach and guides like Ayre's guide here and Fede's guide do have their place. To avoid confusion, perhaps the board could explain somehow that these guides are a little different or an alternative approach or opinion on tulpamancy. Beginners should be allowed to know that there is not a single block of opinion and that they can take more than one approach to creating a tulpa.

That being said, I am not sure that Ayre's guide is saying it is going to create a self deception in the end, it is merely using active imagination parroting in the early stages of the process of tulpa creation.

EDIT: Okay here a link to the most recent poll. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-sent...-2015-poll I was incorrect on stating that it is about 20% who believe their tulpas to be imaginary. It is closer to 10% with another 25% indicating they were still unsure. Still, that is a significant number of people. We should not ignore that ten percent.
03-12-2016, 02:38 PM
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J.Iscariot Offline
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#36
 
RE: Planting a tulpa seed and how to listen to it
Thank you, Melian. You have a valid point; that we should not bar beginners from a certain belief. I would usually agree with you if the domain of tulpamancy was a bit wider. Upon looking at the definition posted on tulpa.info (and in this case, I am speaking of the definition given to beginners and not the, uh, multitude of other definitions the forumbase put in place with valid points), it says in shorter terms that a tulpa is an entity created in the host's mind that is capable of thinking and having their own emotions independently. That is what beginners will first see, and not what I am implying as we had this discussion in the past. With that given definition, we shouldn't tell beginners, rather, we should not inform them of methods that lead to the creation of an entity through willful self-delusion, because to THEM, it's completely different than how it sounds to US in the first place. I'm speaking on the entire community's scale, how things have always been, people would discourage parroting and encourage the 'traditional' methods. My point is not that a new guide promoting a different belief should be discarded, not at all, my point is that this guide opposes how this community functions and how it treats beginners.

What you did, Melian, was widen up a bit the definition of tulpamancy to include other type of thoughtforms. This widening did not happen on the universal scale of tulpamancy, but merely on the tolerance rate in this community, the forum. A lot of people only visit guides and the home site without joining the community, which is why we can never know how many tulpamancers there are out there. We should let beginners know, sure, but we shouldn't provide them with contradictory by nature information. Maybe you know, you think there is more than one approach, but they don't know. They could call parroted tulpas delusions without losing any sleep over that action, because to them, that's what it seems to be. If you guys want to be regarded like that, by all means..

It's not that tulpamancy is, by nature, a subjective practice. Just like any type of realities, as long as it is under people's judgements, it will be interpreted in a different manner, which constructs subjective reality.

Ayre literally said that they believe this is a willful self-deception in their guide. I am not judging anyone on their beliefs, but on the message delivered to outsiders. There is an entirely different discussion regarding parroting to be had, if people here can take it, that is, but this is not the place.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2016, 02:59 PM by J.Iscariot.)
03-12-2016, 02:56 PM
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Glitterbutt Offline
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#37
 
RE: Planting a tulpa seed and how to listen to it
(03-12-2016, 08:58 AM)Drakaina Wrote: Preservation of terminology and meaning is something that's very important to me, especially in communities that are based a subjective experience/phenomena.

One of the lines in the guide that sent up a red flag for me is this one.


"becomes indistinguishable from a separate being". This implies that it is still (at least in part) the original being, which Tulpa are not by this part of the definition.
"In short, a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head, separate from you."

Is there really much difference between saying a tulpa is "like a sentient person" and a tulpa is "indistinguishable from a sentient person?" I think you are reading one thing into the wording of the official definition and others are reading something else. Our Tulpa Info definition of a tulpa is a little ambiguous and subject to interpretation.

My agenda to try to influence the tulpa community to be more inclusive and open minded about other types of thoughtforms has nothing to do with parroting being mentioned as a tulpa creation method. But I do admit and agree that the "consensus" of the tulpa community should be a factor in these kinds of discussions. The concern that the focus of tulpamancy practice will become diluted and confused is a valid one if we do not proceed with care. So again, I do see Iscariot's points.
03-12-2016, 03:05 PM
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Ayre Offline
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#38
 
RE: Planting a tulpa seed and how to listen to it
J.Iscariot, I'm not arguing with you any more. I've poured my heart and soul into this guide. All I've wanted to do is help people that were interested in tulpamancy, just like I was helped in the start.

"The actual differences between the host and the tulpa, or if a tulpa is truly a second mind is moot. That is to say that these are only debate topics, and hold no real weight on my relationship with my tulpa. She seems real to me, so I treat her as such; simple as that."

There is a reason I wrote this. This is the point that I feel we are all missing about what ever you want to call whatever we have made in our heads. It's very easy to get swept up and passionate about something and someone we all care about this much. I would dare say that everyone here loves their tulpa(s), they wouldn't be able to be here if they weren't truly loved. We all would have abandoned them by now if we didn't care. When someone comes by with a different idea about this person you love that you might see as detrimental, it's easy to get swept up in emotions. I wouldn't consider myself very emotional in general, but I am right now.

I should have thought about my first draft more carefully, and how others would see it. I am sorry, and I meant no malice. I have spent many hours trying to explain my view points and why I don't think a self-delusion is a bad thing. I'm not trying to insult anyone's friends here. Maybe I'm just a relic of a different time. Things have clearly changed since I was here last. I had all these ideas for guides, for pointers, for posts. Maybe everything has already been said about tulpas. Maybe this community has outgrown me, or maybe I've outgrown it. I'm going to make one last update to my guide. I'm done after this. I need to re-evaluate some things for a little while.
03-12-2016, 09:01 PM
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J.Iscariot Offline
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#39
 
RE: Planting a tulpa seed and how to listen to it
I apologize for causing this distressful situation, but that's just what I think. I did not mean to cause an argument, and wish you luck in whatever it is you wish to do.
03-12-2016, 09:11 PM
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#40
 
RE: Planting a Tulpa Seed and How to Listen to It
(03-12-2016, 09:01 PM)Ayre Wrote: "The actual differences between the host and the tulpa, or if a tulpa is truly a second mind is moot. That is to say that these are only debate topics, and hold no real weight on my relationship with my tulpa. She seems real to me, so I treat her as such; simple as that."

I have spent many hours trying to explain my view points and why I don't think a self-delusion is a bad thing. I'm not trying to insult anyone's friends here. Maybe I'm just a relic of a different time. Things have clearly changed since I was here last. I had all these ideas for guides, for pointers, for posts. Maybe everything has already been said about tulpas. Maybe this community has outgrown me, or maybe I've outgrown it. I'm going to make one last update to my guide. I'm done after this. I need to re-evaluate some things for a little while.

It would be unfortunate if you abandoned your plans to write from your perspective and experience. I don't like this pressure at all and the attempt to intimidate the minority view into silence. Your ideas are valid and perfectly fine. Your experience with your tulpa is valid and fine.

That is why I made this thread here -> https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-...tulpamancy

The idea was to try to help people realize that we can recognize that the larger consensus is that most tulpas are true independent sentient minds. That's great! There is nothing wrong with that. BUT it is not the only view. If roughly ten percent of tulpamancers feel their tulpas are apparent sentience (self delusion) and lets say there about 10,000 tulpas out there (probably way more than that) then at least 1000 are considered to be self delusion by their hosts! That is a lot of self delusion tulpas and tulpamancers!

I think this guide is fine and almost everyone seems to agree that it belongs on the forum. I see nothing wrong with it. I think that new people should be informed that not everyone agrees with tulpa sentience. It should be made clear, not hidden from them. Then they can see for themselves that self deception tulpas are a minority view. Then they will have the clear choice of which view point and approach to take.

I do agree with Iscariot that we cannot discount the main consensus of opinion. That view should be the one most promoted as the core practice because it is the majority view and the one most people feel comfortable with.
03-12-2016, 09:57 PM
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