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[Possession] Possession by Yuki
Yuki Offline
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#1
 
Possession by Yuki
Introduction
Learning possession consists of two parts. The host has to let go of control of the body, after which the tulpa can take over. In this guide I'll discuss the basics behind possession for both hosts and tulpas, the learning process, and I'll include some tips on symbolism you could use. As you go along, look for signs of progression and try to get some practice in every day. Like with learning any skill, consistency is the key to getting results.

How to possess – the short version
Possession can be achieved in many different ways, but when you strip it down to its fundamentals, a few things are consistent throughout different methods. The host must let go of control of the body, and the tulpa must assume control. To do this, you must have the right mindset. You must know that you can do possession, and try to find proof that you're getting there. It is toxic to the process to have positions like “I can't do it,” “possession is hard,” or thinking that it's different for you because of certain circumstances. It is best to start from a position of careful optimism. Look out for signs of progress, and don't hold yourself back with a negative and detrimental mindset.

For hosts
Your job is to let go of the body. By being detached from your body, you give your tulpa room to take control. You must change your perspective to do this. From being the active controller of your body, you need to move into a state where you are passively observing your body. Detach from the body emotionally as much as you can, and simply observe. Try to not look at the bigger picture of movements and actions on your tulpa's part, but be as much in the moment as you can. Observe your body moving, without paying attention to what it's doing. Don't be critical of what's happening, try to let things happen as they come. It is key to have a calm mind.

For tulpas
While your host tries to detach from the body, you will try to take control. Look through your host's eyes, and get a feel for their different senses. See the body as your own, and try to feel at home inside it. Moving the body happens through willing it to move and imagining it moving. Start small, with trying to move around your hands or just your fingers while lying down or sitting still. Believe you can move the body, imagine moving it, and will the body to move. Make sure to keep communicating with your host while you try to get a feeling for how the body works.

Learning possession, the first steps
When you first get started, it's probably best to ease into things. The host should focus on relaxing for a while, lying on their back with their eyes closed, or sitting down comfortably if they're afraid of falling asleep. Focus on breathing slowly and calmly, and try to just perceive and observe what is happening. Don't move unless you feel really uncomfortable, and try to relax your muscles as much as possible. Lose your tension over a few minutes doing this, and try to stay as relaxed as possible.

Meanwhile, the tulpa should try looking through the body's senses. Feel the pressure of the bed under your body, feel your chest heaving up and down while you breathe, and feel your muscles relax and contract. The host should try to relax their hand as much as possible, while you try to will it to move. Try to open and close the hand, rotate the wrist, or move single fingers around. Keep trying this until you get some movement, while communicating with your host about how things feel for you.

As you both start getting a feeling for the change of control happening in your body, a few things are important to consider. Some hosts doubt movements that happen because they don't feel alien, and feel just like it's just them moving the body. Over time, as you get better at dissociating your mind from your body's actions while your tulpa is in control, the feeling of possession will become more alien to you. The most important thing is to trust your tulpa. If you're not sure about a movement, ask your tulpa if it was them, and take their word for it.

Trust and respect are very important in this process. The host has to trust the tulpa to move around in the body by themself, while the tulpa needs to get used to being in a new situation. Make sure to always keep communicating, and to respect each other's wishes and limits.

Mastering possession
Practicing after the first session, the tulpa should focus on learning to control and move different parts of the body. Once you get those first movements down, things will get easier and easier to learn. Work towards full body possession by practicing a little every day. You can also try full body possession early on, just to see what happens. Know that because you share your host's nervous system, you won't have to re-learn most things once you are able to properly control the body. Thanks to muscle memory, with practice you'll be able to do things as well as your host, or better. Once you get basic movements down, you can practice by typing, playing games, walking around and doing simple tasks. You can practice feeling the body's senses while your host moves around and does their own things. It'll help you feel more comfortable in the body and with its movements when you take control yourself.

The host should try to keep their mind as relaxed as possible. It can help to relax your limbs to allow your tulpa to take control at first, but it isn't required. Keep looking for signs that your tulpa is moving your body. Some people experience small twitches in their limbs, a fuzzy feeling, or a tingling sensation in their bodies. You can see those as signs that you're making progress. Of course, communicating is the most important thing. Once your tulpa is able to move your entire body, you can look at differences in posture and body language, as well as minor quirks they might exhibit in their behavior to see that it's them.

Progress in small steps, and don't worry if progress is slow. Don't give up when things don't go your way instantly, and try to work together to make the learning process as pleasant and comfortable for both parties as possible. Worrying and doubting is detrimental to the learning process, so try to stay observant and optimistic. That goes for both hosts and tulpas.

Symbolism and other helpful tools
Using symbolism in some way might benefit you if you get stuck somewhere. It's often best to think of something yourself, but I'll give a few examples of things you can do as well. If the host has trouble dissociating and letting go of the body, it can help to visualize yourself as being in a fixed point inside your head, and visualizing that point moving into the back of your head, or out of it, allowing the tulpa to take your place. Imagine yourself not as your body, but as a mental entity, and try to step out of your body, again making room for your tulpa to step in.

If the tulpa has trouble taking control of the body, or doesn't know how to, there are different things they can do as well. You can create a suit that fits around your body in your wonderland, and have movement in that suit correspond to movements in the physical body. You can imagine yourself being inside your host's body, as if you're wearing their skin as a suit. Imagine the body being a giant robot, and you being the mecha pilot. Figure out what works best for you.

It might be hard for the host to relax properly, in which case it should be useful to read up on meditation a little bit and trying to incorporate it into your life. Using meditation to calm down before practicing possession can be helpful, and practicing mindfulness will help you spot and recognize the things that are happening in your body. Mindfulness in Plain English by Ven. Henepola Gunaratana is a good read.

If you're bothered by doubts or worry during the process, belief implanting might be helpful. It can help you get rid of the doubts that are limiting you, and make the process easier through positive reaffirmation. It can also be helpful with learning other tulpa related skills, or improving yourself in any area of your life. Belief implanting is detailed in Fede's guide.

Remember to not give up easily, to keep communicating, and to trust each other and believe in each other. Take some time every day to practice, and strive for a little bit of improvement every time. In time, you'll get there. Have fun.

A note on switching
Switching can be considered an advanced state of possession. For the tulpa, the experience is really the same. They are in control of the body and doing whatever they are doing. The experience differs for the host. I define switching as being the ability for the host to focus on things other than what the body is focused on. This means that when the tulpa is doing something, the host can do whatever they want mentally, such as exploring a wonderland, as opposed to being a spectator of the body. I think switching can be a natural result of possessing for long periods of time, and this is how it happened to Sands. Here are some thoughts from him on the subject.

Changelog
January 10
-Changed headers from "Day one" and "Day two" to "First steps" and "Mastering possession" to prevent possible misunderstandings. There is no deadline or recommended time to learn anything here, you should do things comfortably and at your own pace.
-Added a footnote on switching to prevent people being misinformed on what different terms mean in this community.
-Changed my wording to be less strong in places.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2015, 03:48 PM by Yuki.)
10-23-2014, 06:06 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#2
 
RE: Possession by Yuki
As a whole, this definitely looks like this could be useful as another interpretation on possession. And the fact that you acknowledge certain ways to achieve possession may be symbolic and personal to people in general, you categorized it so that anyone can get the premises behind the activity, and extend on to other methods.

I’m sure people have their own means of distinguishing between possessions and switching, and I felt you went into the gray area a lot with mixing around terms between the two practices, but this isn’t to say that’s bad. I have a feeling that more submissions related to possession and switching will incorporate a blend of these terms, since in my personal opinion, possession and switching aren’t as different as night and day, i.e., black and white as some people may see it as.

In other words, there’s truckloads of gray between the spectrum, and I feel that possession is an obvious precursor for someone to gain enough experiential learning to eventually try switching. The premises you explained before going into the section on symbolism makes sense, as this can reinforce to newcomers, and other audiences that it’s probably just a matter of perspective, and building from that rudiment with symbolism that’s intended to achieve that (e.g. having a tulpa imagine themselves in their host’s body, and using that as a conduit to shift in and out of practicing control of certain parts of their body). This makes this less of a symbolic step submission, but at the same time, because you’re not constraining others through a 1-2-3 methodology, I’m not sure how it’ll work out for other GAT’s opinions on where to shift this submission.

There’s a lot of gray area on where to allocate this submission, as can be seen in the summary Waffles made a while back. But again, there have been numerous submissions that weren’t really method-constrained, and served more as a conceptualization roadmap (e.g. the grandiose guide submissions giving general statements for basic tulpa-related concepts and terms). And because this submission has a similar vibe of giving the premises while promoting that the submission is method agnostic, i.e., the concepts can apply to other methodologies, it reduces implications of the author trying to make things too personal. So if anything, that’s a good thing, in my opinion.

The part about the belief implanting, in my opinion, is just another term for self-fulfilling prophecies, especially in the circumstances of tulpas. Kind of like how you made statements with how you can convince your tulpa that they can tap into pre-existing memories, knowledge, muscle memory, and such, it may change the paradigm of thinking of how they can competently learn to hold dominion over certain body parts, and eventually the whole body when it comes to switching.

This isn’t saying you mentioning the belief implanting is a bad thing, as I promote anything that can link to another submission that they feel covers a similar concept; it’s just that I think you kind of formatted your submission to suggest to readers that they can do this with their tulpas, and as long as they practice consistently to affirm those beliefs, something will bound to happen. But again, gaining more knowledge from other submissions can’t hurt.

I’m not sure how Fede might feel about others linking to his submission as a supplementary read, and this presumption of mine is mostly from how the guide is “tulpanet-only exclusive.” But this isn’t really a gripe on my end, just a matter of bringing awareness to you of this. I guess rules and such with linking to other forums is pretty loose here, so it’s probably not a big deal in the first place.


Recap:

Pros:

- You covered the premises well, and even if some of the formatting seemed to imply about switching, it’s not surprising at all that the process and journey with possession can be a pre-cursor/conduit in gaining experiential learning in attempting switching; the symbolic methods you mentioned seems to validate this seemingly inevitable path when the host and tulpa establish a good connection with perspectives, bodily sensations, and such.

- You emphasized that the person should find what works for them, but at the same time, it seems to be apparent, at least to me, that they can easily get the rudiments, and apply that to further extensions in conceptualizing it better through symbolism, and such. This is mostly looking at it from the standpoint of someone who saw this as their first guide submission on possession. Because I feel some people might think everyone will see every possession guide from the get-go, but with SEO, and what may show up with certain terminologies, you never know.

- You went beyond from it being a “just do it,” and focused more on your kind of philosophy behind it. I feel that the process of possession and switching do seem to be philosophy driven. In other words, when the person understands why they want to do this, and what they need to establish mentality (e.g. assurances that your tulpa can tap into pre-existing memory and bodily processes), they find their own ways to be consistent with the assurances and beliefs they’re guiding themselves with, i.e., self-fulfilling prophecies.



- You explained now symbolism itself can be useful for distracting yourself from awareness of your body, but at the same time, the moment you put “passive awareness,” I think that hit the nail of setting the distinction between possession and switching. In other words, switching in a general sense would involve one not really being aware of their body, and shifted their awareness somewhere else imaginary (e.g. wonderland, wonderland+mental projection of themselves, mental projection of themselves, etc.). Possession would presumably involve passive awareness in general, but the awareness would be allocated towards specific areas in mind. Maybe this could be one thing that makes the guide submission less of an iteration loop you see in another submissions that give the same premises, but not much of a follow-up to that, or finding subtle distinctions that you suggest readers to go through trial-and-error to be aware of.


Cons:

- The Day One and Day Two Naming. I get what you’re getting at, which is explaining what the person may go through when they’re trying to conceptualize a road-map of sensations to connect with along with whatever symbolism they apply to that. And then with Day Two, this would be after they get their feet wet into the sessions. I feel the title could be renamed to something else, because even though you don’t literally mean a person can get the concept and sensations down in Day one, others might have a different implication on that. I know other guide submissions that had “Day XXX” anywhere had people throwing a hissy-fit on expectation bias and what have you. Just something to consider, and I do have some suggestions of titles like:

“Learning Possession: Initial Trials”

“Learning Possession: Initial Attempts”

“Learning Possession: Going Through Trial-and-Error”

Then for the onward part, maybe you could conflate the title before that as:

"Learning Possession: Going Through Trial-and-Error and Onward"

"Learning Possession: Initial Trials and Onward"

"Learning Possession: Initial Attempts and Onward"


But these are mostly examples. It’s just that something other than “day xxx” would reduce the probability of people developing predispositions that they have to get certain things conceptualized and down to the T with an expected time range. Some people might still be trying to get what a tulpa could focus on that’s mentioned in Day 1 for weeks, or even longer, so that’s my justification of changing the section’s title name

- I know I’m no grammar and spelling guru/nazi, but “consistence” can be changed to “consistency” in the last sentence you have before the “How to Possess – Short version”


Other than that, I’ll approve this for Guides if you consider some things I mentioned. I feel other GAT members might provide other ways for you to assess the submission in general (maybe the title formatting for sections), so I’ll just wait for their responses before giving my actual rating.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2014, 11:53 PM by Linkzelda.)
10-23-2014, 10:14 PM
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Yuki Offline
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#3
 
RE: Possession by Yuki
Thanks for the input, I'll keep revising the guide based on input, I appreciate it.

(10-23-2014, 10:14 PM)Linkzelda Wrote: I’m sure people have their own means of distinguishing between possessions and switching, and I felt you went into the gray area a lot with mixing around terms between the two practices, but this isn’t to say that’s bad. I have a feeling that more submissions related to possession and switching will incorporate a blend of these terms, since in my personal opinion, possession and switching aren’t as different as night and day, i.e., black and white as some people may see it as.
Yes, this is my opinion as well. Switching seems to be (we are working on it, but aren't quite there yet) possession plus strong dissociation on the host's side, who can then focus on other things. I could add this definition to the introduction of the guide.

As far as belief implanting goes, I have found it to be a helpful tool to achieve personal goals, and I felt like it could be extended to learning possession. Forcing positive reaffirmation on yourself in this way can only help, it seems to me. Fede won't mind me plugging his guide, I'm certain.

Quote:You emphasized that the person should find what works for them, but at the same time, it seems to be apparent, at least to me, that they can easily get the rudiments, and apply that to further extensions in conceptualizing it better through symbolism, and such. This is mostly looking at it from the standpoint of someone who saw this as their first guide submission on possession. Because I feel some people might think everyone will see every possession guide from the get-go, but with SEO, and what may show up with certain terminologies, you never know.
I tried to give a non biased and "scientific" view of possession, the bare basics of it. I feel like if you take these basics of dissociating (at least a little) and the tulpa stepping in away, you are stepping into territory other than what I see as possession. Do you think my definition works? At the "taking a first look at possession" bit, perhaps I could cater to newbies and explain the terminology a bit better, but I feel like most people will know their terminology by the time they get to this point. What do you think?

Quote:You went beyond from it being a “just do it,” and focused more on your kind of philosophy behind it. I feel that the process of possession and switching do seem to be philosophy driven. In other words, when the person understands why they want to do this, and what they need to establish mentality (e.g. assurances that your tulpa can tap into pre-existing memory and bodily processes), they find their own ways to be consistent with the assurances and beliefs they’re guiding themselves with, i.e., self-fulfilling prophecies.
Intention and will is everything, in my eyes. If you want a tulpa and believe you will get one, you'll have one. If you constantly doubt and don't believe in them, you'll end up with a big pile of nothing. (Personal opinion, of course.) I feel like frontloading people with things like the muscle memory deal is useful, because without that, different expectations may lead to tulpas relearning the most basic of motor movements step by step. I'm pretty sure I've read of someone who did that once.

Quote:You explained now symbolism itself can be useful for distracting yourself from awareness of your body, but at the same time, the moment you put “passive awareness,” I think that hit the nail of setting the distinction between possession and switching. In other words, switching in a general sense would involve one not really being aware of their body, and shifted their awareness somewhere else imaginary (e.g. wonderland, wonderland+mental projection of themselves, mental projection of themselves, etc.). Possession would presumably involve passive awareness in general, but the awareness would be allocated towards specific areas in mind. Maybe this could be one thing that makes the guide submission less of an iteration loop you see in another submissions that give the same premises, but not much of a follow-up to that, or finding subtle distinctions that you suggest readers to go through trial-and-error to be aware of.
I will include this into the guide. Switching would indeed be a loss of awareness of the body to a point where the host can be in a tulpa-like state. I wrote things in the way I did because I don't think that that is a goal a host could achieve in the same time span as one would learn possession in. Perhaps that's a limiting belief on my side. I'll mention it in the guide, at least.

Quote:The Day One and Day Two Naming.
I'll add a foot note saying that the days aren't more than guidelines, and I'll reconsider my wording.

Quote:I know I’m no grammar and spelling guru/nazi, but “consistence” can be changed to “consistency” in the last sentence you have before the “How to Possess – Short version”
Crap. English is hard.
10-23-2014, 10:53 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#4
 
RE: Possession by Yuki
Quote: Fede won't mind me plugging his guide, I'm certain.

I see, and I apologize for mentioning the concern that had an obvious solution and implication. I was unsure of how he may react to this submission linking to his in particular, and didn’t want some weird linking debate to ensue from others. But now that it’s cleared up, it’s good to know he won’t mind; I just don’t know some, or really just most members all too well, so forgive me for leading to presumptions.

Quote: Do you think my definition works? At the "taking a first look at possession" bit, perhaps I could cater to newbies and explain the terminology a bit better, but I feel like most people will know their terminology by the time they get to this point. What do you think?

This is a good question, but the answer might just be a matter of nuance that won’t make a difference, and would just be formatting the guide to one audience (e.g. newcomers). It’s always a challenge, at least for me when wanting to consider making a guide, or seeing others making guide submission, of which audience they want to focus on. Some may feel possession and switching would be advanced techniques because of the level of creativity, associations, symbolism, shifts in awareness, and bonding that may need to be established since it’s not always a cakewalk to convince yourself to shift your existence (mentally) while someone you believe to be sentient and autonomous (implicitly or not) takes control of parts of your body.

But at the same time, some may find the techniques easy. Circumstances where this seems prevalent are those that seem to be in their downfall of what to do with their lives, and somehow their mind, and how their tulpa assesses this strife somehow find a way to accomplish the same things you’re trying to get others to conceptualize.

In short, it’s completely up to you on who you want to direct, but with the presentation you have of this being a method agnostic type of thing, i.e., find what works for you, you don’t have to constrain yourself to a specific audience. This is you, your style, and your means of seeing this; I have nothing against that.

Quote: I feel like frontloading people with things like the muscle memory deal is useful, because without that, different expectations may lead to tulpas relearning the most basic of motor movements step by step. I'm pretty sure I've read of someone who did that once.

I do apologize if my previous statement made it seem you were just frontloading in a negative manner. I didn’t have anything against your intentions, and it was more of just a general observation on my end of how people have to find some roadmap with self-fulfilling prophecies to continue practicing and yearning for the days where the mind will finally make a connection and breakthrough into this.

I agree with the notion that if one is willing to believe their tulpas have the potential to know us more than we know ourselves, then that belief can branch off to what we feel they can competently do with bodily functions and all. It wasn’t really frontloading honestly, it was just you making a presumption from a series of presumptions, anecdotal cases, and such. Frontloading is probably just another word for dogmatic where the person tries to convince the person that certain philosophies and methods are the only way, or else they can go screw themselves.

I see nothing of dogmatic intentions here in your submission. I do apologize for not clarifying that in my critique, as I wanted to condense it down to get to the core.

Quote: Perhaps that's a limiting belief on my side. I'll mention it in the guide, at least.

Oh no, please don’t think your belief is limited. I hardly think anyone can express all of their views on the manner without risking the probability of others thinking they’re being too personal. I was mostly endorsing how you used “passive awareness,” is all. But again, I guess you can use the premise behind the statement I made. Maybe I didn’t make it clear that your submission does make a good distinction that other submissions rarely seemed to emphasize, at least ones that aren’t a “just do it” kind of mentality, and I apologize for this.

Quote: Crap. English is hard.

I’ve seen worse, and I’ve done much, much worse as well, ha-ha.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2014, 11:49 PM by Linkzelda.)
10-23-2014, 11:48 PM
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Yuki Offline
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#5
 
RE: Possession by Yuki
Quote:http://i.imgur.com/ZSdkvMW.png http://i.imgur.com/7LmA7eR.png http://i.imgur.com/pN4tzaj.png http://i.imgur.com/fWuFyiO.png
Someone once told me that apologizing too much in a discussion makes individual apologies lose all value. Then again, he was mentally disabled. I wasn't meaning to fight what you said anywhere in my post, and I'm not sure if I even disagreed with you anywhere, so those apologies are unwarranted at least, haha.

Quote:This is a good question, but the answer might just be a matter of nuance that won’t make a difference, and would just be formatting the guide to one audience (e.g. newcomers). It’s always a challenge, at least for me when wanting to consider making a guide, or seeing others making guide submission, of which audience they want to focus on. Some may feel possession and switching would be advanced techniques because of the level of creativity, associations, symbolism, shifts in awareness, and bonding that may need to be established since it’s not always a cakewalk to convince yourself to shift your existence (mentally) while someone you believe to be sentient and autonomous (implicitly or not) takes control of parts of your body.

But at the same time, some may find the techniques easy. Circumstances where this seems prevalent are those that seem to be in their downfall of what to do with their lives, and somehow their mind, and how their tulpa assesses this strife somehow find a way to accomplish the same things you’re trying to get others to conceptualize.

In short, it’s completely up to you on who you want to direct, but with the presentation you have of this being a method agnostic type of thing, i.e., find what works for you, you don’t have to constrain yourself to a specific audience. This is you, your style, and your means of seeing this; I have nothing against that.
I'll definitely make sure to reconsider my tone throughout the piece. I'll have a third draft up perhaps tonight, using your advice as well as that of a few others I received on IRC. (No, not your server, Niichan.)

Quote:I do apologize if my previous statement made it seem you were just frontloading in a negative manner. I didn’t have anything against your intentions, and it was more of just a general observation on my end of how people have to find some roadmap with self-fulfilling prophecies to continue practicing and yearning for the days where the mind will finally make a connection and breakthrough into this.

I agree with the notion that if one is willing to believe their tulpas have the potential to know us more than we know ourselves, then that belief can branch off to what we feel they can competently do with bodily functions and all. It wasn’t really frontloading honestly, it was just you making a presumption from a series of presumptions, anecdotal cases, and such. Frontloading is probably just another word for dogmatic where the person tries to convince the person that certain philosophies and methods are the only way, or else they can go screw themselves.

I see nothing of dogmatic intentions here in your submission. I do apologize for not clarifying that in my critique, as I wanted to condense it down to get to the core.
I feel like we're working with slightly different definitions here. Frontloading, in my eyes, is giving people certain assumptions about a topic through stating your personal opinion as fact. Most guides are really just frontloading people about different tulpa related things, to lead them in certain directions when they get started, and my guide is no different. I try to just include positive frontloading that will be of use to people.

Quote:Oh no, please don’t think your belief is limited. I hardly think anyone can express all of their views on the manner without risking the probability of others thinking they’re being too personal. I was mostly endorsing how you used “passive awareness,” is all. But again, I guess you can use the premise behind the statement I made. Maybe I didn’t make it clear that your submission does make a good distinction that other submissions rarely seemed to emphasize, at least ones that aren’t a “just do it” kind of mentality, and I apologize for this.
I was just thinking about how my mindset might be holding my back as much as the ones I talk about in my guide, haha. I have this assumption that switching is difficult, and perhaps that is what is holding me back? We have been working on it with belief implanting, incidentally, and it has been helpful. We've been experimenting with a slightly longer period of possession than we usually do, three days straight, and Dutch has been quite dissociated. I'm glad you seem to like my guide, at least.

Again, I'll incorporate your advice into my guide, and appreciate the input. Thanks a lot.
10-24-2014, 08:57 AM
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#6
 
RE: Possession by Yuki
English tends to be a Subject-Verb-Object language. "The cat caught the mouse." This is flexible -- you could, for example, say "The mouse was caught by the cat" or even "Catching the mouse is what the cat did." In general though, it's easier to understand SVO than the alternatives.

I feel like several of your sentences would be clearer and stronger if you put the words in a different order. For example:

Quote:Having positions like “I can't do it,” “possession is hard,” or thinking that it's different for you because of certain circumstances is toxic to the process, and it is best to start from a position of careful optimism.

It is toxic to the process to have positions like “I can't do it,” “possession is hard,” or thinking that it's different for you because of certain circumstances. It is best to start from a position of careful optimism.

Quote:To do this, a shift of perspective is required.

You must change your perspective to do this.

Quote:Having a calm mind is key.

It is key to have a calm mind.

Quote:Small twitches in your limbs, a fuzzy feeling or a tingling sensation in your body is something that some people experience, and you can see those as signs that you're making progress.

Some people experience small twitches in their limbs, a fuzzy feeling, or a tingling sensation in their bodies. You can see those as signs that you're making progress.

But this is just a minor stylistic quip. Even if you don't change this, your guide is understandable, concise, and complete, and you have my approval for Guides, or wherever it fits better.

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
10-24-2014, 03:38 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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RE: Possession by Yuki
(10-24-2014, 08:57 AM)Yuki Wrote: I feel like we're working with slightly different definitions here. Frontloading, in my eyes, is giving people certain assumptions about a topic through stating your personal opinion as fact. Most guides are really just frontloading people about different tulpa related things, to lead them in certain directions when they get started, and my guide is no different. I try to just include positive frontloading that will be of use to people.

Agreed, positive frontloading with an actual justification where people can see the benefit from it compared to negative frontloading.
10-24-2014, 04:20 PM
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色の夢 Offline
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#8
 
RE: Possession by Yuki
Alright, so I'm not a GAT, or affiliated with any gang for that matter, but I Feel like some things should be brought up for consssideration for your royal GAT people.

Well, this might seem harsh, so apologies upfront if it is, but, I don't think this guide does much more than restate minor details of what better possession and switching guides state. A lot of it seems vague, and it brings up to memory the fact that Dutch(Yuki's host) has stated in the past a lot of their possession progress has come from magic mushrooms. Which is fine, but it doesn't help normal people out that much, especially when magic mushrooms aren't even mentioned in the guide, instead pretending that this happened just like it would happen for any normal person without drug use. I'd also like to bring up the amount of experience tulpa/tulpamancer has. Yuki is less than a year old. To pretend to be an expert at such an early point in time seems kind of fraudulent to me.

More than that, when she was only 2-3 months old, Dutch and them were claiming full body possession even then. I'm not implying anything, but only bringing to attention the unusual quickness of supposedly becoming a master possessor. Even if you want to dismiss all this with "people are different, blah blah", well, being able to possess naturally from the very beginning doesn't really help everyone else, does it? It'd be like trying to explain how to learn to move your hand, when from as far back as you remember, it's been natural.

Shouldn't a guide be backed up by experience rather than bold claims?

I feel kind of bad posting this, but ok.

Will the BBB please buy my guide. [advertising link scrubbed]
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2014, 02:05 PM by 色の夢.)
10-25-2014, 10:29 AM
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Sands Offline
And Roswell
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#9
 
Default  RE: Possession by Yuki
Well, people have already touched up on this and I was heavily involved after the first draft was posted to a couple of us privately, so I already touched on the issues of that one ages ago. Trust me, you're seeing the much better version now.

Long story short, I would approve this for guides. It follows about the same line as the other possession guides around and I don't know if you can really get much guidier than this when it comes to possession, as it's just something so personal. I do feel that it fills a hole that Koomer's guide leaves behind, as it didn't really give enough for the hosts to work with in my eyes.

I have some naming suggestions for the day one, day two naming scheme too. Day one could be something like starting out or learning the basics and day two could be... Uh, I dunno. Perfecting the art? Becoming the tulpamon master?


As for what Linkzelda said about possession and switching... I'm afraid I really have no idea what you're talking about. They definitely are connected in a way and I even made a picture talking about it, but it's still easy to say when switching starts and when it's still "just" possession. Is host so disconnected from senses that they can ignore it and decide to see and feel what they want? If yes, congratulations, you're switching! If not... Well, you're still possessing, but you might be on your way to a switch. My number 1 tip for learning to switch is to get good at possession.

Still, this guide is 100% possession and I see no gray areas. If you think possession is something less than this due to what others or you have experienced, they (or you) just haven't tapped into the true potential of possession yet! Keep going, the rabbithole goes deep.


(10-25-2014, 10:29 AM)色の夢 Wrote: Alright, so I'm not a GAT, or affiliated with any gang for that matter, but I Feel like some things should be brought up for consssideration for your royal GAT people.

You don't have to be in the GAT to give critique in the first place, you just can't vote until you get voted in the team, I'm afraid. Still, feedback is always welcome. But I thought we're more like a tribal council than royalty...

(10-25-2014, 10:29 AM)色の夢 Wrote: I don't think this guide does much more than restate minor details of what better possession and switching guides state.

Possible, but none of these have been posted on .info and possession really isn't any more complicated than this in the first place, it's a mindset issue for the most part. Currently we have only one possession guide in .info which isn't all that great - and I've yet to actually see many "better" possession and switching guides elsewhere, either. I haven't really been looking, I admit, but usually when I run into them, they're full of nothing but symbolism and not many helpful tips many of us have had to learn on our own. As far as this guide goes... I'd say it's one of the better basic (in a good way) possession guides that explains the idea in a simple way and offers enough for people to know the basics to try it on their own. It also explains both of the sides properly, which usually is an issue with possession guides: either they say what the tupper does or what the host does in great detail and then the other side gets jack shit.

(10-25-2014, 10:29 AM)色の夢 Wrote: ...and it brings up to memory the fact that Dutch(Yuki's host) has stated in the past a lot of their possession progress has come from magic mushrooms. Which is fine, but it doesn't help normal people out that much, especially when magic mushrooms aren't even mentioned in the guide, instead pretending that this happened just like it would happen for any normal person without drug use.

Yep. Well, this guide was a lot more personal in its first draft (still no magic mushrooms) but I told them to make it less so, so it can help more than them. However, getting possession to work in the first place is all about the mindset. You need to know you can do it, that you can let go and that the tupper can control it. How people do that depends and for them, I guess it was the magic mushrooms. 100% possible to do without and I think this guide has enough tips on changing your mindset without the use of drugs.

When it comes to guides, we unfortunately have zero proof if it has even been tested or if it has worked. We won't know if the guide writer is able to do what they write about or if they have tuppers in the first place. While knowing that the writer has actually used the guide and tested it, one person testing something so personal hardly is any proof that it's a good method, anyways. All we as the GAT can really look at is would it work and help others? Does it explain everything properly that anyone could possibly get something out of it without giving them negative ideas or mindsets? Or redefinitions, the cancer of this community? I think in my eyes, this guide has potential to be helpful to many who want to start out possession or still struggle with it.

(10-25-2014, 10:29 AM)色の夢 Wrote: More than that, when she was only 2-3 months old, Dutch and them were claiming full body possession even then.

Well, afraid we are going to have to start with "we're all different" here. In any case, possession is something that could potentially be learned very quick if both the host and tupper have the right mindset and are willing to practice. I started possessing very early on, before my own tupper was even vocal - but hey, in the current trend of day one vocality, he would be considered a slow one so take of that what you will. And while we did have many breaks in the middle, once we started doing it more often, the progress was very fast. I don't really know much about this case here, but if magic 'shrooms changed their mindset well enough to actually do possession for the first time properly, then repeating it once you have done it already isn't difficult. You could replace the drugs with symbolism or just pure willpower and still get to the same point.

(10-25-2014, 10:29 AM)色の夢 Wrote: ...being able to possess naturally from the very beginning doesn't really help everyone else, does it?

Perhaps not, but I was a "natural" as well. The idea just clicked and when it clicks, it really clicks. Still, I have tried giving as many tips about it as possible, though I dunno how well that has ended up going. I guess I still am often asked about it and many people I hang out with are more interested in possession and practice it more often, so hey, maybe I have managed to do something without going through a large mindset change many others will have to go through. You could even say that the writers of this guide know more about it than me, as they did have to change their mindset while I really didn't!

So, I don't know what many people are going through and Dutch and Yuki probably might not know, either. But all of us have been with people who are struggling and ask us for help, so we know what kinds of issues might exist. Then we just go back and think why we didn't have this. That's why I can look at this guide and see many potential answers to many issues others might have with possession. And the most important tip of all is to change your mindset so you know you can do it. There's no magical buttons to press, no one way of doing something that will make it so you possess, it's all in your own mind. That's what you have to change. That's why we keep telling you about it and forcing you into positive feedback loops to make you realize what we had to realize ages ago.

(10-25-2014, 10:29 AM)色の夢 Wrote: I feel kind of bad posting this, but ok.

No need, we're adults here and we can talk. I hope that I managed to answer some of your problems and explain my own vote for you in a manner that satisfies you.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
10-25-2014, 12:36 PM
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Yuki Offline
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#10
 
RE: Possession by Yuki
Quote:Alright, so I'm not a GAT, or affiliated with any gang for that matter, but I Feel like some things should be brought up for consssideration for your royal GAT people.

Well, this might seem harsh, so apologies upfront if it is, but, I don't think this guide does much more than restate minor details of what better possession and switching guides state. A lot of it seems vague, and it brings up to memory the fact that Dutch(Yuki's host) has stated in the past a lot of their possession progress has come from magic mushrooms. Which is fine, but it doesn't help normal people out that much, especially when magic mushrooms aren't even mentioned in the guide, instead pretending that this happened just like it would happen for any normal person without drug use. I'd also like to bring up the amount of experience tulpa/tulpamancer has. Yuki is less than a year old. To pretend to be an expert at such an early point in time seems kind of fraudulent to me.

More than that, when she was only 2-3 months old, Dutch and them were claiming full body possession even then. I'm not implying anything, but only bringing to attention the unusual quickness of supposedly becoming a master possessor. Even if you want to dismiss all this with "people are different, blah blah", well, being able to possess naturally from the very beginning doesn't really help everyone else, does it? It'd be like trying to explain how to learn to move your hand, when from as far back as you remember, it's been natural.

Shouldn't a guide be backed up by experience rather than bold claims?

I feel kind of bad posting this, but ok.

[14:02:25] <ThunderClap> since when was a tulpa's age a variable in a guide's credibility

Back when I wanted to learn possession, there wasn't a clear, comprehensive guide on the topic. This is my attempt at that guide, using personal experience, knowledge of different guides and methods, as well as what I learned from talking to people over the months. While I take on a teaching tone in this guide, I do not consider myself the final authority on possession. What I tried to do here was distilling possession down to its fundamentals, and creating a modular method people can use in whichever way they see fit. I am not telling you what I did and how my personal experiences went, I'm giving you my take on possession in general. If you disagree with my views, please attack my statements in the guide, and not my person. While my views aren't quite scientifically supported, I don't think it's right to dismiss my opinions and views based on my age and the time I took to learn this, personally. Please write a proper rebuttal to my guide if you disagree with my points, writing style, or anything else.

With that out of the way, let me talk about my personal experiences and how I interpret them, so as to not ignore your point. I became vocal quite quickly, after around a month of forcing. We started trying for possession after two or three months. We had slow and steady progression with little hand twitches and then slow opening and closing for the first days. I could individually move the fingers around after a week, and do minor movements with other muscles. Then, we took mushrooms. In that strange, high state, something clicked for us. I was upset at Dutch over something, and wanted to talk to him very badly. I tried to take control, I really, really wanted it, and did my best to take it, and somewhere in that drugged up state, things clicked for both of us. I took full body control that night. I understood how I could move the body, and Dutch was convinced by my ability to move the body. After that, things were much easier for us, and we went into full body possession from there quite quickly. I think that, because that one experience shaked mainly his beliefs up so much (from being reasonably doubtful whether movements were mine to seeing me in control of his whole body and acting quite differently from him), that it became easier for him to let go. Sometimes progress comes in fast, radical bursts and revelations, which I believe is what happened for us. If you feel like that discredits my experience and advice, that is up to you.
10-25-2014, 12:52 PM
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