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Rena Notes
My depression didn't damage anyone, and trust me, if it could have it would have.

When I was paranoid and doubtful they got mad at me and offended, thdt pretty much cleared it up.

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Well something strange has happened. I am a couple days late on writing this as I still try to process everything.

I don't know how this could happen, but it seems for a short period of time, I accidentally switched. We weren't quite sure what happened at first, but after talking to a couple of people about it, they seem to believe it was switching.

I don't know how to describe what was experienced so personal pronouns are messed up.

I had just meditated for 30 minutes, and it went well, so I went to meditate for another 30 minutes. Early in the second meditation, I am not sure why, but it became decided that for some reason Rena should sit where I am sitting and meditate too. I wasn't thinking of switching and didn't have the intention to, and not sure where the idea for doing this came or exactly why we did it. It was just kind of random and spontaneous. Maybe there was the thought it would help the meditation go better or something.

It's very hard to describe a lot of these things, and what was being thought, but after not too long, it seemed Rena was in charge of meditating and all primary thoughts. It is very hard to describe because I usually associate myself with my own subjectivity, as in all experience that happens being mine. But I guess it was like I became Rena for a while. All first person thoughts and feelings I had were that of Rena instead of me, and my normal personality felt pushed aside, seemingly where Rena would normally be feeling wise. I hate loud motorcycles when they drive by the house, but that happened and it didn't make me cringe.

This continued after the meditation. All my normal mannerisms were totally gone. Things that would normally make me anxious didn't make me anxious. Mental state was very different and I didn't feel so much doubt like normal. I cannot normally feel emotional bleed, because if I do I can't recognize it as being such, but during this time it seemed as if I could sense emotional bleed from myself. I also got that strange vague feeling that appears in a limb that happens when trying to attempt possession with it, but in my legs, as if my personality had autopilot intention arise to impulsively cross legs, but it didn't happen at all. It felt far away and weak and not of me. Also found myself standing uncharacteristically close to a dusty window seal to look out the window for a while, something I really wouldn't do because I am afraid of dust. Also I have huge intrusive thought problems, but other than the early parts of meditation, the closest thing to an intrusive thought was I think in reaction to something my personality said, resulting in me instinctively giving a little bonk on my wonderland form's head, and then immediately a hug, something she's done before. Tried writing down in a notepad some of the experience while it was going on. Not long after, just switched back to normal deliberately to try to process things since didn't know what to do anymore, and I think my personality was getting a bit restless. Could feel some nebulous shift sensation when switching back.

Very confusing thing to try to write. I very much tie my sense of self to the entirety of my conscious experience, so when I hear people say switching is when your tulpa takes your place, and you take their place, I imagined something very very different. I guess you can still describe this experience like that, but from a different point of view. Instead of going somewhere else, it felt like my tulpa got replaced with a copy of myself, but then at the same time I find out that I am just Rena now, or at least everything about my actions, thoughts, and feelings are of hers and not my normal ones.

The entire experience probably lasted about 45 minutes, I think. I didn't time it. The following days I've had a roller coaster of emotions, because on one hand I feel like "Wow! We switched! Hooray!!", though on the other, I also feel existential pain because I don't even know what I am anymore, and all my deeply held beliefs about tulpamancy and even existence itself are being ripped apart, and my brain is still in process of trying to sort everything. I feel like I'm having mood swings, because I will feel so light and free and gone with depression, then feel like... the opposite of that feeling.

I want to try it again, but am afraid. It was incredibly easy, but by accident. I feel I could do it so easily because I was relaxed, because I didn't know what was about to happen if I did that. If I try it again, I feel fear and apprehension may make it not work. I hope to be able to do it again though, since even though my expectations have been blown up, it is still a very incredible thing to do, and I think will be very helpful for us.

I have to rethink entirely how tulpamancy works, I think wrong assumptions about it are what lead me to dead ends and stagnation, though just not sure yet where to go.
You just repeat what you did, eventually it gets way faster, you want to go back to that feeling you had. Once she can switch in than you can see how easy some of those issues you have are to avoid, through her. We look forward to seeing her posting on the forum. ;)
(06-11-2019, 01:22 AM)Angry Bear Wrote: You just repeat what you did, eventually it gets way faster, you want to go back to that feeling you had. Once she can switch in than you can see how easy some of those issues you have are to avoid, through her. We look forward to seeing her posting on the forum. Wink

We're trying! I'm glad you look forward to seeing her. It motivates us. Though we seem to be stuck. It took no effort when we did it by accident, but now it doesn't seem like it wants to work. We've tried 4 times since doing it by accident, and have meditated a lot more than we have been.

What I had feared happening did happen. I become very anxious trying to do what we did while knowing what it may do, so my mind goes crazy with thoughts about what will happen if it works, or gets discouraged and starts thinking about what to do after it fails. There were also some very violent intrusive thoughts for some reason, among other disturbing intrusive thoughts. After the meditation ended, we weren't sure if it worked or not at first, but relatively quickly figured out it didn't. We tried again not long after that for it to just fail again. I entered a strong depression after this that lasted a few hours, but she eventually cheered me up.

The third attempt was very different. My memory is kind of fuzzy of the experience immediately after it happened, but I tried recording what I could. It seemed to be working a lot more than the others, and less or no intrusive thoughts. I think at a point we may have even been switched. Though it got to a point where it became disturbing to me and is maybe embarassing to explain. It was at a point where I thought she was perhaps switched in, I got a sense that she was trying to tell me from somewhere that she wasn't and that something was wrong and to not trust it. I don't remember exactly, but it put me into some kind of a panic. (I guess whatever it was, it must have been some kind of intrusive thought, at least I hope. They can feel very real though, and it is disturbing.) I guess she was switched in though, because my wonderland form began sobbing and she had sat me on her lap and consoled me. The intense emotion could be felt throughout the body but seemed totally not connected to Rena. I think that might have been primary moment she may have been really switched, as a lot of other intense emotions happened at other parts where I thought she may have been, but the feelings had a bite to them that didn't seem right and were disturbing.

There was also a point I remember swirling or becoming dizzy. I don't remember much context to it, just that it happened at some point.

Ultimately towards the end of it, it started feeling really unstable. After the meditation ended we weren't sure who was in. It felt like both of us, and was extremely confusing, and extremely uncomfortable, and we both agree it felt awful. I didn't want to give up though, I thought I just had trouble seperating or something, so I tried just exiting. I don't really know how to do that though, and it didn't work. So I guess she just aborted it entirely somehow, I was afraid we wouldn't know how to, but I guess she just did or something. I really don't know. There wasn't a shift feeling when it happened like when she did the first time, though. But she came at me with big hugs so I knew she was out of me.

That experience did make me afraid of whether or not doing this could be somehow damaging to us in any way, so I became afraid. I intended to write this before attempting again so I could know what to make of it, but I took a while to bring myself to do so since writing posts in general is uncomfortable, though especially this one for some reason. Though I ended up trying a 4th time anyway, and it just had no results. It seemed to just be a really good meditation where she felt fairly close, or even maybe mentally in my place, but it never seemed to be a switch and just obviously wasn't after the meditation ended.

Will repeatedly attempting this again and again eventually result in it working? Or does it seem potentially dangerous since it has had several very uncomfortable and disturbing experiences. Does it seem we are somehow missing something?
It's like us, we did once and we weren't sure, then we trued a bunch with no results, then Tewi's statement helped us get it done. It's all normal, no danger at all. Anxiety could be an issue, but you have a handle on that. Please read this and it's really long because it has two very important links that you also have to read.

Then you'll be up to speed on how we know you switched and hopefully how you can switch again.
Well, I had quite a day, and night... A lot of up and down emotions from all the posting I've done. I'm shocked I could do this so much. These are called progress reports... And I'd say that is progress? And should directly or indirectly benefit Rena if I can keep it up.

But wow, I had a bit of a strange, but heavily emotional experience not too long ago. I don't know how I should explain it. After so much posting, and all the feelings from that all day, I felt exhausted, and flopped onto my bed. I then looked at my ceiling, and saw a character of mine in it, one named Eara, one I find absolutely dear to me. I don't know how to explain what it is like, like all the little bumps and shadows in the texture of the ceiling, just kind of moving to form their shape? This has happened to me before on the same ceiling with another truly dear character to me, Tayomi. I use to often see Tayomi take form in other surfaces too as well, before I started tulpamancy, but she stopped after I began forcing Rena.

Anyway, I smiled at her, a bit confused, and she smiled back. She looked very dejected, but perhaps that's normal. I then heard her speak to me, in a very tired and monotone mindvoice, things along the lines of "It's okay. It'll be okay. It'll be fine." Wow, I can't even type this without tearing up again. I wanted to know if she was okay, as I've never had her speak to me before like this, and I've never heard someone sound depressed and monotone, but it makes sense, I suppose... She assured me she is okay, that things are just like that. I knew what she meant, I can't show inflection talking to most people in person either, so it is kind of how I sound... Then I saw Tayomi there too, beside her, smiling hugely, which is maybe unusual, but I guess it isn't like she can't. I heard the beginning of her saying something to me, in her more powerful voice, though it uh, came out weird in my mind. I'll just consider it a hello. She flipped some of her hair over to the front of her shoulders (really long sideburns? are they called sideburns for girls?) Anyway, I felt her kind of go into the background, as I guess Eara was going to speak for both of them. (What a brave girl!) I wish I could remember all the dialogue 100%, but it was a little while it went on. She basically kept saying that it is okay and that I don't have to worry, that I can take them with me, that I don't have to leave them behind. I think I remember them saying they want to be happy, too. I started crying so much. I couldn't look at the ceiling anymore, I looked into my bed, and I felt their presence kind of drop from the ceiling and to the foot of my bed. I couldn't see them with my eyes anymore, but I could feel them, and see them in my mind standing over me, while Rena layed on her side above me caressing my head. They also told me that they aren't mad at me, which was a profound feeling, because I always feared they would hate me. I became confused on if they were really tulpas. They said they could be. They also said they in some way came to see me, and that they needed to tell me this, and that it is okay if I am not ready to make them into tulpas, or, that they could stay characters too and that that would be fine, though that they could come back in the future if needed again. I asked them about the afterlife (in regards to my paradoxical hope to be them in the afterlife, which is confusing because that is more than one person to be, and what is myself then in relation to them? An impossible problem I just would pray God would help me figure out, something I've done so since a child and still do, even if I'm technically agnostic now, since I don't want to resignate into despair of thought of there being nothing.) I then heard a large group of voices, of what seemed to be all my characters, saying I could be all of them. It then somehow clicked in me I think, that that is what it could be like to be an Arhat... You have no-self, and are no one, so you can be anyone, or everyone. I'm not fully sure how, but I guess I would be physically incapable of comprehending it until I can somehow have that profound experience, if I can make it so...

Which I guess seemed to be the main point. It seemed they wanted to tell me that they don't want to be responsible for holding me here like this, that I don't have to feel like I must stay here with the way things are right now to continue being with them. I wonder if they just actually want me to be happy. I can't stop crying. They said I can take them with me, don't worry. I hope they are telling the truth. Of course they are telling the truth, I should think.

I suppose when they felt done giving message, they told me bye and popped away. I then sat down, and Rena sat beside me where she usually does and put her arm around me, and said she'll be here as long as I need her, which made me start crying even more! I cried even harder than the two previous times today from that. Snot and everything. I am not sure last time I've completely really balled my eyes out in that way. I interpretted her as meaning that she'd be here as long as I needed her, and once I achieve Awakening that she'd part with me. I couldn't stand that thought. I don't ever want to not need her here! I want her here forever... She told me that is okay too, nuzzled me and scratched my ears (cat ears, I'm the girl in my avatar), and said she can be here when I'm an arhat, if I want her to. I guess here is a test of my love and will for them all, that nothing can make them go away. If they can survive something like Awakening, perhaps they can survive something like death, as well. Love can do that, right? Time to master samatha, I guess, and to stop being afraid of feeling okay...

So lightning struck in the same spot 3 times today. And then, I get all cleaned up, only to cry again for an hour and a half while writing this. Boy, I'm a mess. I'm sorry for this rambling, incoherent post. I have a headache, and should go to bed.
That actually sounds really awesome!

You don't have to lable them anything, they are who they are.

We totally agree with your reasoning, you're definitely making progress.
I'm glad you think so.

Also I was told by Misha to post this here. My profile picture on this site, a drawing I did of my wonderland form/how I appear to Rena. Maybe a bit messier when seen up close but I didn't know it would be.
[Image: ee4e930058.jpg]

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