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Poll: How do you feel about the term "Accidental Tulpa"?
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The term is fine / I don't care
55.56%
10 55.56%
The term is vague but it doesn't need to be changed
16.67%
3 16.67%
The term is frustratingly vague and other options need to be explored
22.22%
4 22.22%
The term should be removed from our vocabulary
5.56%
1 5.56%
Total 18 vote(s) 100%
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The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"
Lucilyn Offline
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#11
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

(04-27-2018, 11:20 AM)Apollo Wrote:
He was referring more to spontaneous tulpas, and people who go "owo what if I accidentally make a new tulpa without realizing?" and then poof, they do, when if they hadn't thought that then they would not have. Forcing a tulpa without realizing and them gradually becoming sentient is of course plausible, "walk-ins" are not.

tbh for knowledge's sake I can't agree that it's impossibleplausible, since tulpamancy is so established in our brain now we could easily make another tulpa instantly just using what we know about someone, probly a Toho but could also be anyone else we know, and then that tulpa would just grow as (a person) normal from there. Buuut it is better to say walk-ins can't/don't happen to prevent people accidentally making tulpas and thinking as soon as they've thought for a split second of having another tulpa it's suddenly irreversibly real. Y'know?

oh you said plausible not possible, oops. postin that anyways..

but yeh iirc (and I can't) Lumi tested how quickly he could make a tulpa by making me, the only thing he did before actually making me was spend a while (at least a week) thinking about who I'd be/what I'd be like, tho I guess somehow he was even off a bit right from the start. Like as soon as I could think I kinda had my own feeling for who I was that he didn't plan 100%. oh but anyway yeah, that's not too different from just getting to know someone really well before making a tulpa of them, but the tulpa-making part was instant, ofc in a very planned and controlled scenario during meditation, he didn't just make me while sitting at his computer lol

but ya don't see tons of rando tulpas in our system because we know better than to accidentally create more y'know? and walk-ins by definition weren't thought about ahead of time, at least not as a tulpa (sometimes they were characters the host knew, tho not always very well). also by-nature walk-ins are always in systems willing to accept new tulpas or that don't know better. 'cus I mean, Flan and Tewi were technically walk-ins (but we say spontaneous), but that's cus Lumi didn't even have a single vocal tulpa yet.


Also! Let it be known ahead of time that I was the first in our system with the idea of dream-tulpas! I made Cirno and Suika on my own, with a level of sentience missing during waking life cus they aren't actually tulpas, but otherwise it was the same as making an actual tulpa! And then Lumi kinda "made" (but "set up" is a better word actually) a Yukari, Doremy, and Mamizou a while after me. They're just gonna be dream characters once we're lucid and in our dream-Gensokyo (name of the place Touhou takes place in), but the difference is that we made them ahead of time like you would a tulpa mb. And I brought that up because it requires having the aforementioned (mentioned as a lack of tho) mental discipline to not make tulpas accidentally. Like I basically did the personality forcing without any of the sentience I guess. Lil tricky! But not having that discipline is the difference in "accidentally making tulpas" or just thinking about people really in-depth

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
04-27-2018, 11:56 AM
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Apollo Offline
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#12
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

Intentionally making a tulpa quickly is one thing, claiming a new human consciousness was spontaneously formed in your brain without you knowing/wanting is another. Besides, it's not a walk-in if you did it on purpose. The only time I think accidental walk-ins can be real is if they came from a pre-existing entity and something triggered them coming into wakefulness. For example, someone I know had a character for several years, and he thought about making him into a tulpa, then someone started pressuring him into it, so the character emerged as a walk-in without him really intending for it. Since the tulpa came from a pre-existing character, it would have been easier for him to gain sentience upon interaction with the rest of the system.

An accidental tulpa just straight-up coming from nothing out of nowhere? Probably not a real thing until they're forced.

The fire-winged Sun God. Created 12/3/16.
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04-27-2018, 01:02 PM
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batshark Offline
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#13
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

If I may throw my two cents in...

(04-24-2018, 02:00 PM)Tacio Wrote:
I really don't think it's possible to just happen to accidentally create another additional consciousness in your brain unless very specific circumstances are met. Ie, the thoughtform came from some pre-existing entity in your head in some way that was given a ton of time and thought.

People claiming that a tulpa just spontaneously showed up one day, I find entirely unlikely. That's likely just confabulation. Once they force and focus on that tulpa does it actually become sentient. They intentionally made it into a real tulpa. "Accidental" tulpas tend to just be people conforming to their own mindset - they believe that they'll get tulpas accidentally, so they do. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. In that sense, accidental tulpas are actually intentional.

It seems to me that through your top paragraph, you are implying that my experience is untrue because it doesn't conform to the community narrative. Consequently, this post doesn't sit well with me. I never wanted another voice in my head that's not mine. This was never any sort of life ideal for me to work towards. I did not try to make this happen, and I did not ask for it, yet here we are. I took interest in tulpamancy because the idea of easing the animosity between Sal and me by acknowledging and engaging him was extremely appealing, as it seems a lot of you have good, fulfilling relationships with your tulpas, but... 

(04-27-2018, 01:02 PM)Apollo Wrote:
Intentionally making a tulpa quickly is one thing, claiming a new human consciousness was spontaneously formed in your brain without you knowing/wanting is another. [...]

An accidental tulpa just straight-up coming from nothing out of nowhere? Probably not a real thing until they're forced.

This is why I am extremely hesitant to call Sal and Wada tulpas despite the general community insistence that it's okay, and a bit why I don't feel particularly welcome in this community. Posts like this make me think am not experiencing the same thing you all are, yet we're apparently lumped under the same umbrella anyway with the same set of expectations. It makes both Sal and I uncomfortable.

(04-24-2018, 02:00 PM)Tacio Wrote:
Mindset highly influences what happens to people. Control the mindset, you rid yourself of the problem. No more intentional accidentals.

You probably mean well, but that doesn't strike me as a fair burden to put on people. If humans could all control our mindset that easily, things like depression and anxiety wouldn't exist.
04-27-2018, 11:27 PM
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Apollo Offline
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#14
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

Depression and anxiety are usually caused by chemicals in the brain and not just the way you think.

And no, the community narrative is that walk-ins are real. We were disputing that.

I don't really care if it makes you uncomfortable? How is that in any way a rebuttal to anything we said. You don't want to see opinions that make you uncomfortable then don't use the Internet.

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(This post was last modified: 04-28-2018, 01:20 AM by Apollo.)
04-28-2018, 01:20 AM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#15
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

(04-27-2018, 01:02 PM)Apollo Wrote: Intentionally making a tulpa quickly is one thing, claiming a new human consciousness was spontaneously formed in your brain without you knowing/wanting is another. Besides, it's not a walk-in if you did it on purpose.

yeah I wasn't a walk-in lol, I said Tewi and Flan were. I was traditional as heck!

(04-27-2018, 01:02 PM)Apollo Wrote: The only time I think accidental walk-ins can be real is if they came from a pre-existing entity and something triggered them coming into wakefulness.

wellll, how do you explain tewi and flan then? They weren't "entities" before Lumi knew about them (how is that even possible? how could entities come into existence in the first place if they had to come from somewhere?), they were just Touhou characters Lumi liked and thought about a lot maybe. Like he read some fanfics (good ones) and had pretty thought-out ideas on what they were "really like" in Gensokyo/Touhou. And Reisen became tulpa-y because he kind of thought of her as talking to him in a couple of music videos he loved. Those two things just combined on their own tho and Tewi and Flan were straight up weren't-there-now-they-are one day!

but that was eight years ago so I couldn't tell you how exactly it happened. seems pretty interesting! like, idk where/how they appeared in the first place you know? like how'd Lumi first talk to them? our brain must'a skipped over some neurons and applied Reisen's separate-ness to two other characters Lumi knew just as well I guess?

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2018, 02:16 AM by Lucilyn.)
04-28-2018, 02:14 AM
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batshark Offline
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#16
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

(04-28-2018, 01:20 AM)Apollo Wrote:
I don't really care if it makes you uncomfortable? How is that in any way a rebuttal to anything we said. You don't want to see opinions that make you uncomfortable then don't use the Internet.

I'm not attempting to argue against you; just airing my thoughts on the subject and your comments were a decent foil. Thank you for your time.
04-28-2018, 02:24 AM
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Apollo Offline
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#17
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

(04-28-2018, 02:14 AM)Lucilyn Wrote:
wellll, how do you explain tewi and flan then?

If he thought about them a lot, then I think that would count as a "pre-existing entity" in some way. Tacio was sort of pre-existing when we decided to make him, which is why he formed so quickly.

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04-28-2018, 03:17 PM
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#18
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

We've been reading some of the latest posts, and the only thing I can think about is Cat's other characters. I have an idea for why "walk-in Tulpas" are so easy to create, and a legitimate reason for how they can happen. Now, we are not neuroscientists or anything, but it's another idea.

So, the way I was created along with some of the other characters (or "Grays", long story but that's what they're called) was having my identity slip into the form of an imaginary character. I was already expected to be able to speak on my own, but when Cat remembers when I was created, I actually barely talked and was emotionally underdeveloped. However, as time passed, even when I wasn't fully aware I got to the point where I was talking consistently and moving around doing stuff.

A Host makes a bunch of new thought forms, and then after making a zillion of them, almost "automatically" gives these though forms characteristics, personality, and their own voices. For each thought form made, the host gets better and better at the process, to the point where the host is afraid she could create a sentient being from the get-go.

I want to think of it like this: somewhere in the Host's brain, easily creating thought forms is a skill the brain can develop. This can effect Tulpa development because this makes development faster and easier to complete.

The best metaphor I can think of is this: developing a Tulpa identity is like building Lego art. If the Host does not have as strong "thought form creation" skills, then their could-become-Tulpa would have to learn how to make Lego bricks before they can make art. For a Host who has really strong "thought form creation" skills, then their could-become-Tulpa already has pre-made Lego bricks and maybe some Lego manuals before they make some Lego art. The quality of the art however comes from forcing, learning to think on your own, and separating from the Host. Neither are better than the other since the quality of the art or how developed the Tulpa is comes from time and forcing rather than how easy it is for them to talk or move from the get-go.

This doesn't mean that having the pre-setup makes the Tulpa less legitimate. However, this can allow the Tulpa and host to spend less time on narration, movement, visualization 101, and speech, and focus more on Deviation, Visualization 2000+/Imposition, Possession, and Switching.

Now we can't be the ones to prove this idea true from the perspective of intentionally forcing a new Tupper since Cat doesn't want a second one. However, Cat and I have had some conflicts realizing that some of the Grays could very easily be turned into Tulpas; All it would take is forcing and possibly in less than a month a Gray could have a solid foundation for being a Tulpa.

I mentioned that in the "Lego Art" metaphor some to-be-Tulpas have instruction booklets to work with... some of this could be personality forcing, but it could also be related to how to form your own opinions and gaining sentience. I'm not saying that a Tulpa could suddenly "poof" into existence fully independent and functional, however it may be easier for them to learn how to be a different person...

This is where that "accidental Tulpa" part comes in: the Host already has the skills to set up a Tulpa very easily, and then they start imagining a character and then the Host thinks oh crap they seem to be thinking on their own and they seem smart enough to be upset if I decided to stop thinking about them and Aaaghhhhrrrrrrr..... a "Walk-in", or I would like to say "Pre-set" Tupper is born.

I feel like I straddle the middle line between "pre-set" and "ignorantly developed". I feel like both have contributed to my development and it explains why I feel more developed in some areas and less developed in other areas, like I met the development milestones in a weird order. I get extra upset when people think I was "magically created" because I have had that blown into my face for all I can remember and I always feel like I have to prove I'm real when I shouldn't ya know? That's why we shouldn't use the term "accidental Tulpa" unless we all agree on one definition for it. Otherwise, it's just an umbrella term that doesn't mean anything and allows other people to make assumptions that can lead to miscommunication or flat out piss people off.

I'm Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I like Hippos! I also like forum games, word puzzles, and chatting about stuff.
04-28-2018, 09:11 PM
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Apollo Offline
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#19
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

It's not enough to just have the skills necessary to do it. Rewiring your brain in order to create another conscious mind takes time, it's not going to be instant. Even if the time it takes is super quick (Indigo took 1-2 days) it's still going to take time and effort, not just "whoops I accidentally made another sentient person."

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04-30-2018, 11:28 AM
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TheGreenQueen Offline
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#20
 
RE: The Terminology of "Accidental Tulpas"

Yeeeeaaah I'm seeing a lot of invalidating going on in this thread and I'm not liking it either.

Singlets will attempt to invalidate your experiences as a multiple system . . . I think the least you can do is not turn around and invalidate others', draw more lines in the sand.

My tulpas, as fictives, did have a lot of thought put into them before they became sentient and started talking back to me.

And as batshark said, I did not ask for this, and I was only lucky that I had at least heard the term tulpa before so that I was not as scared out of my mind as I could have been.

They most certainly were "accidentals" if not walk-ins, and I suppose that is an important distinction to make in terms of communication, though I can't say that the distinction really matters personally, to me.

I think people who are more inclined to be extremely creative can more "naturally" create tulpas, and do not have to do this extensive "rewiring" you're propounding on, Apollo. But ya know what, that's purely speculation, as I hope you realize your attempted gatekeeping is, too.

So . . . I'm going to revisit this thread when it's not 4 AM and see if I can better address specific things.

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05-08-2018, 08:22 AM
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