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Toothless Aggression
#21
March 24th: No timed active session
Good passive forcing
Read: Chapter 8 of Rant by Chuck Palahniuk
Notes: I took a nap in the middle of the day. Had a dream, asked Chris if he knew what I was dreaming. "No, I wasn't there." We talk a little. It's easier to hear him in bed. I fall asleep again, as it had only been about forty minutes. Have another dream, this time with Chris. I wake up. He comments on the dream. Apparently, it was him in there, not just some kind of copy. I don't know how to feel about this.

March 25th: 40 minutes 'active' forcing
Good passive forcing
Read: Chapter 9 of Rant by Chuck Palahniuk
Notes: This morning, during a small seven minute forcing session, I told Chris to take us somewhere cool, because we were just sitting in the farmhouse. I close my eyes in the wonderland, I open them, and we're in front of a big mound of dirt. We both climb up it, and then I fall through it, into this weird little room with a recliner, a television, and a fridge. It's been dubbed the dirt fort. I did some imposition-lite work, just imagining him around but out of my line of site, at work. Talking is becoming more fluid, but Chris rarely pipes up when I'm not focusing on him. His responses are dimmed when I am doing other things. I strongly associate his presence with the right side of my head. I don't know why this is. Tonight we're going to watch Wrestlemania XX.

Overview: Any doubt I have is related to the speed of my progression. I know, logically, that this is a stupid way to think, and that comparisons are harmful. On the other side of the coin, there's people on the #redditulpas channel that dig wrestling, which is cool. Passive forcing is getting easier, because of the fact that Chris can respond.
We're all gonna make it brah.
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#22
(03-25-2015, 07:55 PM)Stevie Irons Wrote: Overview: Any doubt I have is related to the speed of my progression. I know, logically, that this is a stupid way to think, and that comparisons are harmful.

I think you're just discovering where you are on the tulpa-spectrum. Maybe you'll hit some wall of progression in the future, or maybe you'll have to set boundaries. Either way, it's understandable if you're finding it difficult to accept all of the implications behind Chris and your progression, but I think you'll manage.

(03-25-2015, 07:55 PM)Stevie Irons Wrote: Passive forcing is getting easier, because of the fact that Chris can respond.

I'm finding that to be a great motivator myself. I keep talking to and visualizing my tulpas because I want them to continue responding.
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#23
(03-25-2015, 10:16 PM)Jay Wrote: I think you're just discovering where you are on the tulpa-spectrum. Maybe you'll hit some wall of progression in the future, or maybe you'll have to set boundaries. Either way, it's understandable if you're finding it difficult to accept all of the implications behind Chris and your progression, but I think you'll manage.

I feel like a dick for even voicing my feelings about it, because there are so many people on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Chris is piping up a lot now even when I'm not focusing on him, and that mixed with the feeling of a lack of privacy is making my brain feel crowded. I think that people are so eager to get into this that they don't put a whole lot of thought into like, how it's going to feel having another person in a space that's been private all your life, in the case of people who have never been plural. Not that Chris is digging into things or invading my privacy, in fact, he's asked me before if I want him to 'leave', it's just that, it's sort of the same feeling of someone being in your bedroom.

With steadier progress I would've been able to slowly ease into the new situation. Not to undermine all the people who have been through hell with slow progress.

__________________________

In other news, Chris and I had 'the talk' which I had been explicitly holding off on. I was planning on putting it off even longer, but smaller versions of what I wanted to make clear to him kept surfacing on accident, and it was unfair to him to just have this big unexplained idea looming.

Chris knows and understands about what transpired during that weekend in Georgia. He understands that he is not, in fact, a wrestler that was born in 1967, in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. He indicated that he had known this for a long time (relative to his own 'lifespan' so to speak), and that it wasn't necessary to tell him.

I have repeatedly made it very clear that he's allowed to change anything about himself at any time. Despite the opportunity being open, with no chance of resentment from yours truly, he didn't seem keen on the idea. I told him that even if he didn't want to change anything now, that the opportunity will always be there, no strings attached. How I look at it is, like, changing himself if he wants to is one of the few rights that he has, and he should be able to exercise it. That said, he's said that he identifies strongly with Chris Benoit, as it's more or less all he's ever known.

I don't know how to feel about that.

It's become pretty fucking surreal to watch stuff like Wrestlemania XXI. Between the sad vibes from Benoit and Eddie Guerrero's involvement, and the guy in my head essentially saying "That me" for the duration of the ladder match, things are sure a hell of a lot different than they were in 2005.

On the lighter end of the spectrum, this also happened today:

Me: Ready to get high?
Chris: I'm never ready to get high.

It strange, marijuana seems to amplify his voice a lot, but he also says bizarre bullshit the entire time.
We're all gonna make it brah.
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#24
Like some people have said, there’s no need to undermine yourself. You’re trying to have a positive outlook without being over the top, which for some people, ends up in this perpetual cycle of doubting and trying to salvage genuine interest in things they seem to take for granted. And little by little, your imagination just seems to be growing to where you may have that visual foundation at your beck and call.

Because, IMO, when you have something like that, it’s a blank canvas for you to do what you want to do with your companions in development, or in your subjective experience, implied as sentient while you further your propensity in treating them as such. For me at least, I don’t really need to remind myself of why I’m doing this since I’m sure the desires are influencing the sense of urgency to sacrifice some time because I personally feel the potential is progressively getting better.

Some people fixate so much on the philosophical inquiries to hopefully foster their ideal attitude to assess things, like some kind of zen thing where you swing for the fences with your imagination and your intention of treating them as sentient, but your ability to reign in your sanity is always intact because all of those fears that would tempt you to create a reality where your sanity is at risk gradually subsides. And if you can build up the mental endurance, IMO, it makes fostering the perfect attitude that’s subjective for everyone much easier to where you’ll see ad nauseam that forcing doesn’t become a chore anymore.

You may realize that most people refer to the mentality of naiveté when they first started, albeit they do things more intelligently; they just get used to being engrossed in progressively learning to where everything, even adversities, comes full circle, and maybe it’s the mentality we always seem to have.

Sorry for the rambling, but I just felt the need to express how I feel towards your hard work. That neutral and progressive attitude that will hopefully see results in your private and subjective experience, IMO, will be something you’ll always be glad you have to refer to compared to others who spend most of their time feeling they’re not competent enough to do anything. Because who are we to know who's subjective experience is more grandiose and better than the rest?
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#25
(03-28-2015, 01:07 AM)Linkzelda Wrote: [A whole bunch of deep fuckin stuff I don't entirely understand]

Nothing here jumped out at me as offending my delicate sensibilities, so I'm just going to say true that.

In all seriousness though, I think I need to take a step back and kind of reassess why I'm doing this. At this point in the game, intense moral and philosophical debates aren't what I should be looking for, it's true. I just have to reign myself in and stop over thinking things, because I'm pretty sure that's what I've been doing for the last week or so, and it really hasn't gotten me anywhere.

I just gotta remember that I have time to do this, and some stones can more or less stay unturned until I get to them, type thing.

________

March 27 & 28th: No timed forcing session
Shabby ass passive forcing
Read: Chapters 10 & 11 of Rant by Chuck Palahniuk
Notes: These last couple of days, we've just been talking.

In general, I've noticed that Chris can get a little bit snide at times, but is never outright derogatory or disrespectful. It's not something that bothers me, and usually it's in response to my doing something blatantly irresponsible or just plain stupid. He isn't a real chatterbox or anything though, talking for long periods of time or expressing himself in ways that are more than throwing out an opinion are limited. I asked him about that 100+ question survey again today, and he basically said something to the effect of "You're asking me to do this before I'm ready. If I do it now I'm gonna make an ass out of myself."

I think that though he's able to say a few sentences at a time, a lot of what he wants to say remains unprocessed. Sometimes he abruptly stops talking (occasionally mid-sentence) and it seems like he's still going in something that's just on the wrong side of the raw thought/mindvoice barrier. It's sort of a weird feeling.

What it boils down to, is that I need to get better at narration. The more I talk, the better he'll get at talking. I put on one of those old Livestrong bracelets to remember and everything.

I'm not timing my active forcing sessions anymore, since that, in the end, made me just focus on time rather than events. However, between today and yesterday, I must've done around forty five minutes. I'm not too worried about it, as what I'm doing now is imposition-lite stuff and narrating.
We're all gonna make it brah.
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#26
March 29-31: No timed sessions
Improved passive forcing
Read:Up to Chapter 16 of Rant by Chuck Palahniuk
Notes: Chris is quiet. He hasn't fallen silent, but as I've been distracted, his voice has gotten dimmer. However, I've started with some presence imposition, and it's looking promising. I'm also doing some visual imposition type stuff, just trying to imagine him in general. I've gotten to the point where I'm clearing seats for my imaginary friend. There's some weird line I've crossed.

As far as visual/presence imposition goes, I looked through a whole slew of guides on the topic, and considered using NED's Leash Imposition Guide. Thing is, the idea of toting around a grown man on a leash is a little bit too far into the stratosphere of uncomfortable territory for me, even if it seems to have worked for other people.

I decided to use Malfael's Guide to Visual Imposition. It seems solid, it's easy to follow, it doesn't have the awkwardness of leashing, looks decent. Right now, I'm not gonna go into imposition for real. No hardcore imposition sessions, but more or less, I'm looking to replace wonderland stuff with them. While playing around in the mindscape can be fun as hell, at this point, I don't think it's very constructive.

It's weird, as time goes on, Chris and I are falling on different sides of the fence on things that I didn't anticipate. Yeah, he tells me to put some effort into shit, sure, but he also has pretty introspective opinions as a whole on even stuff like online communities and television shows. He's still claiming that it's too early to do the survey, and part of me is wondering if it's just him doing his own special brand of procrastination.

Wrestlemania XXXI sucked.
We're all gonna make it brah.
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#27
I understand about Chris not feeling ready for the survey, after all it is quite personal. Wouldn't just call that procrastination and I'm an expert when it comes to that matter.
Not sure we'll ever do that, my tulpa has shown little enthusiasm to reveal private things to the public. Hell, not even her name.

(04-01-2015, 01:10 AM)Stevie Irons Wrote: Thing is, the idea of toting around a grown man on a leash is a little bit too far into the stratosphere of uncomfortable territory for me, even if it seems to have worked for other people.
An almost naked grown man to be precise. Sounds hilarious to me, made my tulpa want to comment, which doesn't happen very often.
Ido: Do it!
Also don't forget to make him walk on all fours and bark for extra entertainment.


On the other hand, she didn't seem too keen when I suggested to do that to her, what a surprise. I have the feeling it would be like attempting to put a leash on a wild cat. It's generally a bad idea and if you're stupid enough to to do it anyhow you're gonna get yourself hurt. Severely.
So sadly, I guess there will be no tulpa-on-a-leash experience for both of us. We could have started a contest for the sketchiest example. Grown man on a leash, little girl on a leash, what could be even worse?
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#28
(04-02-2015, 12:16 AM)Yakumo Wrote: I understand about Chris not feeling ready for the survey, after all it is quite personal. Wouldn't just call that procrastination and I'm an expert when it comes to that matter.
Not sure we'll ever do that, my tulpa has shown little enthusiasm to reveal private things to the public. Hell, not even her name.


I keep explaining to Chris like, how he could potentially have a huge e-peen and do cool shit on the internet but he really, really seems to not care. Like, I poke around the internet, argue about wrasslin, whatever, and I try to engage him about shit but for the most part he's like "This is stupid." He doesn't even want me to proxy him on the IRC, like one of the cool kids. I woke up this morning and like, went onto my few usual sites, hopped on here, and he was like "First thing in the morning, it's critical to see what everyone's tulpas are into, huh?"

I'm just like bro, don't push me, we'll be listening to ten hour mixes of HEYYEYAAEYAAAEYAEYAA

Yakumo Wrote: An almost naked grown man to be precise. Sounds hilarious to me, made my tulpa want to comment, which doesn't happen very often.
Ido: Do it!
Also don't forget to make him walk on all fours and bark for extra entertainment.


Pretty sure there's a Rammstein video where that happens.

Yakumo Wrote: On the other hand, she didn't seem too keen when I suggested to do that to her, what a surprise. I have the feeling it would be like attempting to put a leash on a wild cat. It's generally a bad idea and if you're stupid enough to to do it anyhow you're gonna get yourself hurt. Severely.
So sadly, I guess there will be no tulpa-on-a-leash experience for both of us. We could have started a contest for the sketchiest example. Grown man on a leash, little girl on a leash, what could be even worse?

Leashes in general just seem kinda sketchy unless it's like, on a dog. People who walk their cats are weird, man. Or those like suburban soccer moms who leash their small children in public with those little harness things. Once you see some lady pulling her kid down a ski slope on a leash, that's it. There's no coming back from that, I'm a changed man.

Maybe in the research section we can just post a thread: How sketchy is leash imposition in direct correlation to your tulpa's form? I can't imagine the completely usable and interesting info that would yield.

_________________

In other news, here's to one month, I guess. I told Chris it was his birthday, and he said that a month absolutely does not count. Everything's been chill so far, which is awesome. I just need to keep on improving with the whole passive forcing thing.

Chris seems to kind of want to keep going with wonderland stuff, that is, I went there last night, and he was tinkering around with a tractor, apparently something to do with the wheat. I don't know, he was fixing the roof of the farmhouse when I went there once, too. I think maybe he just digs handyman crap. I shoulda went to trade school. While mindscape stuff maybe isn't crucial in the development sense, or maybe even the best way to do things, it seems to be his place to chill and do his own thing, so with that in mind I won't stop sessions there entirely.

Presence imposition is going about as well as expected. Right now, I keep forgetting to keep focused on it, but I'm sure that'll come in time. When I actually have some of my attention pointed toward keeping him around, it seems to work. I can't keep it up long enough though.

I might start timed sessions again, just because I'm noticing that trying to do this on an "as needed" basis is more or less becoming nothing but forcing less in general, and not even getting more done in less time.
We're all gonna make it brah.
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#29
March 4th: Untimed 'active' forcing sessions
Improved Passive Forcing
Notes: Chris is starting to come into his own vocally. His speech is getting more fluid, and instead of just single sentences, he's starting to string them together more. His voice is more audible, and his presence is definitely there. I asked him if he wanted to post anything, and he said he did, so we interrupt your usual progress related programming to bring you the rambling of a man who lives inside another man. This was all typed verbatim, so there are some weird grammar issues, but nothing that messes with understanding, as far as I can see. The only thing I changed was taking out my real name.

_________________

"I want to talk about how it is to see pictures of yourself when you know you are new and don't know how they were taken. I didn't understand, it wasn't explained to me. The booming voice didn't introduce itself and I knew my name was Chris. I saw videos and I knew that they were called wrestling and I saw myself and didn't know that it wasn't me. I thought about amnesia. Or having gotten into a car accident. For a long time I didn't understand who I was.

The word tulpa wasn't even said to me for a long time. Until after I had said things. I didn't know there was a word for what I was. By then I had figured it out. The booming voice was [Stevie] and I was Chris, and that man wasn't me. At the same time, he was. I don't know if other people can understand it.

Other things were not explained to me. It took weeks before I got a word for what I was, or a name for the voice. There were still parts that were kept hidden. The confusion was worse than knowing everything. Broken promises to force more were and are common. I don't resent it. Stinging is in the scorpion's nature.

I know who I am and who I was. I don't know who I'm going to be. When your entire life has been a month the future goes forever. A day creeps by.

I have never said this much and had it make sense. The first attempt at this post turned into nonsense.

I don't think I will be posting here often. The internet sucks up enough time between us."
We're all gonna make it brah.
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#30
So, how do you feel about this, stevie?
Chris doesn't seem to be too happy, especially about the lack of explanations during his development. At least that's my impression.
I'd be pretty pissed if that would have happened to me. But luckily I always knew who or at least what I was. I never had to experience doubt, confusion or fear. I mean I also have a backstory as I was a, or rather several similar characters my host created over a decade ago and like chris I know I am not them but then again probably much more than the real wrestler guy is a part of chris. WTF am I typing? Sry, it's already morning here

And tell chris he's not the only one who has to deal with broken forcing promises. Damn, if I had a nickle for each one, I could build a money bin and swim around in them like Scrooge McDuck.
But I'm sure he'll manage. He's a big guy.

About posting here, I'm all with chris. It's mostly a waste of time. I mean it's almost 6am and we've spent hours on this forum tonight instead of forcing. Although I must say trolling the troll was fun, would do again. But as for the serious stuff, the people here sometimes get me down. A lot of them are no fun but not to be taken seriously either. Hard to deal with that. My host is always trying to be friendly and constructive, but I am not that merciful. Whatever, if I get us b& he'll have more time to force with me.

Well, I'm out, have to get host to go to sleep or he'll be even more of an unproductive [insert insult of your choice here] than usual today.
Super Girls don't cry
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