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Trying to understand stuff
Luminesce Offline
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#11
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

(02-25-2018, 12:40 PM)Spice Wrote: perhaps you should have drafted this, since new threads get tweeted (i think)

Not recently

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
02-25-2018, 06:01 PM
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Cat_ShadowGriffin Offline
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#12
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

(02-24-2018, 01:11 AM)Implosium Wrote: "I mean, if my tulpa can access my subconscious, doesn't that mean that it can give the answers for my french, English, German and Portuguese language exams, as well as help me solve math exams twice as fast, and with half the errors? I could also have two perspectives on what people mean from what they say, stopping me from always f***ing up every nearly every conversation I have with a girl, or a friend, or just about anyone (even people two times younger than me), and end my reputation as a weirdo, a hentai-lover, an idiot who doesn't understand hidden meanings most of time, an extremely proud, selfish, insensible, indifferent, egocentric, avaricious, egotistical and smartass bastard student, a free and easy all-around scapegoat, a comfortable punching bag and someone you can easily break bonds with without him reacting in any way whatsoever."

...okay, lots going on there.

Just to put it out there, Tulpas are not magical enhancers. While Tulpas are capable of doing really neat things, they can't magically make you a better person. Tulpas change people because hosts and Tulpas work together to make the system better for everyone.

Tulpas are NOT "...a free and easy all-around scapegoat, a comfortable punching bag...". Think of it this way: If you were blamed for everything wrong your girlfriend did, would that make you upset? Even worse, IF YOU WERE BORN just to be told how terrible and awful you are just because your girlfriend made a mistake on an exam or didn't fit in with everyone else.

Honestly, It's really fucking creepy that you want to create a Tulpa to make you "more powerful" and to in turn treat them like shit.

If you took everything else I said for granted, then please know this: If you want to hurt a Tulpa, you want to hurt yourself.

Don't worry guys, I'm not a Dragon! My art style is an optical illusion. I'm not a hippo either, I promise.
Ranger usually speaks in azure text, but some of his older posts are in orange text.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2018, 09:04 PM by Cat_ShadowGriffin.)
02-25-2018, 09:03 PM
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Implosium Offline
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#13
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

Sorry everyone for the long wait, was busy with exams and all, kinda entered a depression phase after trying to get closer to the girl i liked too (and failing), should be able to update this tonight ^U^
04-27-2018, 02:41 PM
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KarlYoshimura Offline
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#14
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

@Implosium

The ambition for resolute power and dominion over others comes as naturally to men as breathing. Yet creating a tulpa is not a logical or directly applicable satisfaction of what you've described.

While I could judge you and expound on why I think you're wrong, making this decision would be like asking you to judge and pick out malignant properties from my own self.

This being stated, here is some food for thought: have you considered your desires to be reflections of what you feel are inequities or the results of formidable obstacles existing in your personal life? For instance, if you want gratification from hurting a tulpa, would this mean that you are trying to redirect  how others seemingly mistreat and exploit you on to said tulpa? I'm reminded of how different kinds of abuse can be cyclic in nature or "trickle down" as some say.

Here is another question: why not take the opportunity to redefine and healthily develop yourself? You wouldn't have to subject another person to being your whipping-post. Should you choose to make a tulpa, the restraint and benevolence you supply can allow you both to grow in ways you've yet to experience. Just having some one else there who knows you better than you know your own self, some one who can reassure and protect and love you when absolutely no one else will is good strength. It is a kind of unadulterated and magnificent power all its own.

ROTHCHILD
YES
WE
ARE
BETTER
05-03-2018, 11:02 AM
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solarchariot Offline
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#15
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

As a person who can sometimes ramble myself into clarity, I appreciate a bit of rambling from time to time. Ideally, the process still requires contextual coherence. It is a testament to the quality of personalities on this site that everyone has tried to relate and help sort this into a meaningful direction. In addition to seeing 'lots' here, as previously noted by other, I wonder if you can't formulate a question because there is no question. The section of the preamble that I get stuck on above is that you already have your answer, belief, paradigm, and you're indifferent to anyone else's paradigm, and your purpose is to insert a sense of authority, your word- power, which is typically not a great way to build rapport with others when you have already boxed them as irrelevant. That sort of sentiment tends to be a very deep seated personality trait that influences all relationships; the one consistent area where you revealed your greatest humanity is in failing to connect with others, specifically the lady friend you're fond of. That could be in part due to mild aspies, or could be a result of a lack of internal consistency, as evidenced by the entirety of your rambling, which suggests pressured speech coupled with mild flight of ideas.

It is my belief, I say belief because I lack the statistical knowledge to back this up, that tulpamancy works best when a person is able to focus, consistently over time, with the least amount of tangential thought processes. Initially it requires refined, obsessively focused thought, before you can return to normal everyday thought mode which allows for a more natural communication style between personalities. We all have random, flow of consciousness kind of thoughts, with interruptions from internal and external sources, but even in that- most the time we hold a meaningful, coherent stream that allows for greater continuity. What you have written lacks that flow. You're not only bouncing between subject, you're time traveling. "Seriously" most folks don't include flashback and addendums to explain caveats that may or may not be relevant to what is being communicated, but no one can know that for certain if we don't have one specific thing to consistently relate to. I personally experienced your writing as me being in the ocean, the boat has sunk, lots of floating things in the water, but no life preserver to grab onto! I don't know how a 'one on one' conversation with you is like. The only present window I have into your world are the words you use. I wonder if there is a language barrier, and maybe some of the nuances are being loss in translation. I suspect every word you used is relevant, somehow, to the bigger picture- ie, there use to be a boat but now we're in the water- you're trying to communicate, but much of this could likely be omitted and narrowed down so we could all more quickly arrive at the same place.

I like the idea proposed earlier, just submit your question and trust us to help you sort it and refine it. That's a tried and true method for clarity. I believe your answer, you don't have a question. That's okay, too. So, make the most concise statement you can and let's see if we, together, can unravel this mystery. (I suspect you will find a way to refute or avoid clarity. That's okay, too, but you risk losing your audience if you continue to be stuck in ramble mode.) If this boils down to a fundamental issue of relating to others, well, that's a very human thing. There are no absolute answers in resolving that, because there are as many ways of resolving relationships issues as their are people who have relationships. We can discuss that. It would be better if you helped refine that, because it could take forever simply sorting out all the words and phrases you used that could relate to relationship issues, that, like the section above I referenced, presupposes a perspective of reality which may or may not be accurate. (So, for example, if your intent wasn't to alienate your reader, you are not obligated to start a conversation with 'it is not my intent to alienate you reader,' except you know the thing you're about to say is likely to do that very thing, so you say I am not going to as if that makes it okay to go ahead and do that very thing you were going to do anyway, which doesn't necessarily relieve you of the responsibility of being considerate, socially speaking, and I guarantee you that saying that will not give you the appearance of giving a F*&^*, when you don't give a F*&^, and wouldn't it have just saved time by syaing what you needed to say? Only you were so focused on diluting the perceived offense, you never got to the actual offense so that some of us could either be indigently mortified, or simply rigteously indifferent. And you're right, that would be our subjective response, but we didn't need you to remind us we could be subjectively influence by your subjective reality. You can't prove you're being objective by pointing out the possibility of being subjugated by presumptions.)  I am not saying your reality isn't valid. I am simply saying a perceived dysfunction may not be a real dysfunction.

Now, see, I can ramble, too, I love rambling, but I feel like I was on point. Smile In short, get to the point. I say that in a very loving, encouraging sort of way, without pretext and presumptions. I have no clue how you will react, but I hope it's positive, but then, that, too, would be your subjective response to what... Our objectivity? (I mean, that whole section does single you out, and the truth about alienating others is it works by alienating self.)
05-03-2018, 05:45 PM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#16
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

wow, are you the new linkzelda? been a while since we had someone who'd go that in-depth on "philosophical" problems like that. Good post tho! Probably! we'll see how Implosium reacts to it lol

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
05-03-2018, 06:36 PM
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solarchariot Offline
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#17
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

(05-03-2018, 06:36 PM)Lucilyn Wrote: wow, are you the new linkzelda? been a while since we had someone who'd go that in-depth on "philosophical" problems like that. Good post tho! Probably! we'll see how Implosium reacts to it lol

lol, I am unworthy for linkzelda. I don't know where all of that came from, but probably responding to something internal. Oh, time to go tulpa finding. Smile Assuming we all have hidden tulpas that sometimes influence our thoughts and behaviors...
05-03-2018, 06:46 PM
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Implosium Offline
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#18
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

Hey everybody! Big Grin Sorry for the long wait, tried to make myself update last time, but due to some personal life issues, I was kind of unable to do anything productive except for playing games for a few weeks ^^
So uh, to answer your comments, before I edit my main post:
(05-03-2018, 11:02 AM)KarlYoshimura Wrote: The ambition for resolute power and dominion over others comes as naturally to men as breathing. Yet creating a tulpa is not a logical or directly applicable satisfaction of what you've described. 

While I could judge you and expound on why I think you're wrong, making this decision would be like asking you to judge and pick out malignant properties from my own self.

This being stated, here is some food for thought: have you considered your desires to be reflections of what you feel are inequities or the results of formidable obstacles existing in your personal life? For instance, if you want gratification from hurting a tulpa, would this mean that you are trying to redirect  how others seemingly mistreat and exploit you on to said tulpa? I'm reminded of how different kinds of abuse can be cyclic in nature or "trickle down" as some say. 

Here is another question: why not take the opportunity to redefine and healthily develop yourself? You wouldn't have to subject another person to being your whipping-post. Should you choose to make a tulpa, the restraint and benevolence you supply can allow you both to grow in ways you've yet to experience. Just having some one else there who knows you better than you know your own self, some one who can reassure and protect and love you when absolutely no one else will is good strength. It is a kind of unadulterated and magnificent power all its own.

I don't really get why you thought I would want to use the tulpa I create as a whipping-post. On the contrary, if I create a tulpa, it would be to be with someone that knows me as much, or even more than I do, so that he/she could understand me and I could understand him/her. My goal in creating a tulpa is to have someone that is exceptionally close to me, that wouldn't leave me on the whim, like others would, someone I can share anything with. I hope you get what I mean Smile . Answering the other part of your message, yes, I have had a few problems in my life, but who hasn't. Well, to put it short, when I was a small kid (around up to the age of 9, I guess), I was really popular and had a bunch of really close friends, but once we got older, well, I stayed childish, and my friends either left for other countries, or joined other groups. By then, until now, I've kind of been lonely, and bullied sometimes, but that happens to a lot of people so it doesn't matter. And just so you know, although I have had tons of possibilities in life in which I could have treated others the way other people treated me (ie what you meant by "For instance, if you want gratification from hurting a tulpa, would this mean that you are trying to redirect  how others seemingly mistreat and exploit you on to said tulpa? I'm reminded of how different kinds of abuse can be cyclic in nature or "trickle down" as some say.  " ), I have never done that, at least from what I can remember, because even if I'm pissed, annoyed, or feeling really down, I still have some part of me that tells me that doing that is bad, and that it won't lead me to anything. So yeah, rest assured, I would NEVER hurt my tulpa if I get the chance to get to know him/her, neither physically, nor mentally (and not verbally either). 


Now, to answer @solarchariot , yes, I must say, I've re-read my post, and it really does seem kinda rambly and without much contest. Though that makes sense (at least i think it does, not sure), since I wrote it when I was bathing in depression at 5 AM, so I'm not sure if I really had the ability to fully concentrate on the goal of what I was writing was, I think I was writing as the different memories and ideas of what I could tell you about myself came to mind. 
My intention is not at all "to insert a sense of authority", I am not power-hungry to the level that I cannot search for answers in other people other than me, it is not because I like and want power that I want to be the only one in my throne room, I do not wish to push everyone down as I go up, on the contrary, although I am a capitalist and am in no way communist or socialist, and although I don't really understand why certain people react in certain ways when I do things, I do not wish to be alone with the power, I wish to have other people at the same level as I am, and to reach the same level as people that are above me, so that there may be no-one above me, well, no-one I dislike at least, but that I don't mind if there are people at my level too. (Am I starting to ramble around again? >.< Well, uh, read a wuxia, like BTTH, and you should understand my way of thought (the same as the main guy, at least in terms of wanting power, so that no-one can be a threat towards him or his entourage, but at the same time he likes staying at the same level as his entourage, not bossing them around and telling them what to do, more like how friendship should work)).
So yeah, my intention is just to understand why I cannot manage to create a tulpa, and how I should go around doing it. That is the biggest question here, but the reason I'm writing all the rest is so that you can understand why I cannot manage to create a tulpa, even though a big part of what I'm writing might be irrelevant to that question. I've also got a few side questions, such as: Can attempting to create a tulpa without success actually create a tulpa, or something/someone similar, that might alter the way you think? I ask that because, well, I'll talk about that in the edit of the big post.
Now to keep answering your post, solarchariot Smile
Yes, it is very hard for me to focus on one subject, as much as it is actually very easy for me to do so. When I am fully into something, such as when I'm reading a manga, I block off all other thoughts and most of my senses get ignored by my brain, and all that is currently functioning in my brain is merely what is related to the manga I am reading, nothing more. The problem with this is that I do this naturally, it is not something I can control, not even a bit. All I need is to be fascinated by something (eg. reading mangas, playing games, programming), and everything else in my mind just disappears. I've attempted the same thing for things that I did not have a passion for, but it did not work. Now, I know what you, or someone else, might say. "Is it because you already knew in your mind that it wouldn't work?" Aannnd... the answer, i think, is yes, and this is specially important, because, when I do anything related to tulpas, there is this tiny minuscule part of me that keeps telling me "lol, do you actually believe that this made up shit will work?" And, yeah, what you'll say, most definitively, is that as long as that part of me keeps thinking that, there is no way I am going to succeed in making a tulpa. And I don't know if you're right, but part of me is afraid that you are, and so I refuse to believe it, just like you said I would in your reply: "I suspect you will find a way to refute or avoid clarity" Although part of me will agree with the clarity you will give me, or that I already know, overall, I will probably refuse it, as it would mean that I would never be able to create a tulpa, since I would have to get rid of a part of me that I cannot manage to get rid of. I just hope what I predicted there won't happen  Sad

So, uh, yeah, Solrachariot, I am not in any way taking your message badly, I take it nicely, as I know that you did not come here to shit on people, but rather to help them  Smile
As you have suggested, I will give myself more time before editing the post to figure out if there is a way for me to try and get to the point, so we can figure this out  Big Grin Cool
Btw, "one-on-one" conversations with me are only comprehensible to people that have known me for some time, because in real life, since I cannot ramble on, my thoughts keep pushing each other in my brain, so the sounds that come out of my mouth are mostly intelligible or in discordance, as I keep getting new ideas and letting go of old ones. In other words, I don't pronounce really well, whatever the language I am speaking  xD (may it be english, french, portuguese or german).
Oh, and just so you know, I'm not facing any translation issues, as I English is my main language, it's just that when I write a lot, I tend to start and write kind of badly, sorry for that  Wink
05-12-2018, 03:17 PM
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solarchariot Offline
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#19
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

Hello, Implosium.

I am glad to hear you took the post well. This last response, still rambling, but a little easier to track in some ways. Depression can alter the way we write, talk or think. I hope you are feeling better. You mention that it's harder for people who don't know you to communicate with you; is that part of the aspies you mentioned? If it is, this is something that you might want to consider. Tulpas are not for everyone. Autism Spectrum Disorder, ASD, can make communication challenging. There is this thing, called autistic fantasy, where by someone with ASD can so surrender to a fiction that it becomes difficult to navigate real world stuff. Sometimes the disparity between the real world and the fiction world can cause anger or depression. If you original post was written during a depressive episode, and you struggle with communication in general, whether you have frequent depressive episodes are not, creating a tulpa might be a distraction at best, or a burden. Not saying don't do it, but not engaging tulpamancy might be serious consideration point if relating to others is hard, or if others relating to you is hard. People here are pretty fantastic, and they want to get know you and so they, we, me included, are happy to sort through stuff to find meaning.

That said, one of your points is that tulpamancy won't work for you because of your skepticism. That's a great point, and other people have endorsed that as a real thing. I am on the fence with it, because I can make an argument for both sides. Placebos work because you believe... If you don't believe, they don't work, or they have the opposite affect, which the opposite affect also proves how powerful the mind is. I had skepticism. But I also had belief that it was possible. And so, I practiced the protocols. I got headaches and head creepy crawly sensations immediately. That was interesting, but enough solid evidence to compel me to keep trying. My persistence and intention kept me at the protocols. Then I had an auditory experience. That was huge, and from that moment forwards, it snow balled. Maybe it accelerated because I had evidence, or because of increased belief, but the point is, I don't think belief has to be hundred percent. You do anything long enough, repeat any phrase often enough, you will see results. I believe your brain works as good as any of ours, and if you keep at it, you will see results. You may have to increase your participation time, but just be consistent and focused. I think you hit another key point in that, if you're interested you give it your full attention. And tulpas need that to get started and grounded and then at some point, they just seem to flourish. I suspect that's because the unconscious takes over.
05-12-2018, 09:47 PM
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Implosium Offline
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#20
 
RE: Trying to understand stuff

Evening, solarchariot ^U^


Yeah, thanks, I think I'm feeling better, though I don't think it'll go well once I go back to school Sad (not because it's school, bc my personal issues involved someone in that school, and I'm scared of what will happen once I see them again :/ )
Uhm, well, first, do keep in mind we are only talking about slight autism, like, a really tiny bit ^^
And, well, I really want to have a tulpa, so even if the case is that it might affect me negatively to have one, I really at least want to try.
And what I mostly meant by having difficulty with meeting new people is that I'm naturally really shy and, when I am shy, my brain races tons, which doesn't help with the fact that I'm already rambling about tons, so what comes out of my mouth becomes intelligible, if anything comes out in the first place XD not that I dislike meeting new people, just that I don't know what they think, less than I do with people I know at least, so I feel slightly insecure or scared they won't like me.
And don't worry, I don't think that having tulpa would make me stop my human interactions, as I can't go forward in my professional life without them. ^-^


So, you mean like, just keep practicing, and it'll come? But what did that practice you did consist of, though? I get most tasks we have to do to tulpamancy mixed up all the time, don't get which I really have to do XD

Thanks anyway for the reply  Big Grin Wink
05-13-2018, 12:22 AM
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