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Tulpas/Schizophrenia?
QFlip Offline
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#1
 
Tulpas/Schizophrenia?
It may be possible that spontaneous tulpas (the ones that aren't purposely created) are much more common than most have previously thought. However, only a fraction of them develop a personality and befriend the host.
 
My theory is that a tulpa is created from a certain pattern of repeated thought that eventually begins repeating on its own or "imagining itself", performing tasks and creating its own thoughts similar to what the existing mind does. The pattern of thought would have to be of a sentient or potentially sentient object; it would first have to be imagined sentient to imagine itself sentient.
 
However, the human brain must have some sort of mechanism against this phenomenon to prevent tulpas from being created all the time in this way, otherwise, the mind would create of a tulpa of anyone that was thought about frequently, such as a loved one, a celebrity, etc. Either some sort of chemical, or genetics concerning the way the brain is formed would likely enhance or reduce one's ability to experience autonomous thought patterns. It is possible that tulpas are created in people's minds all the time, but nearly all are removed or forgotten in seconds.
 
The symptoms of some schizophrenics seem to me like some sort of spontaneous tulpas, or at least the same phenomenon that creates tulpas. Many schizophrenics speak of hearing voices, often incorrectly believing that the government/aliens/neighbors/etc. are inserting the thoughts into their mind, for the reason that the thoughts are indeed not their own. What they don't realize is that the thoughts might come from a random tulpa that was spontaneously created. The tulpa could be harmful or friendly, but either way, these people would not know how to comprehend or understand a tulpa, and so their mind collapses and comes up with fantastical explanations.
 
Whatever component of the mind that determines the susceptibility to autonomous thought patterns is almost certainly hereditary. Because schizophrenia can also be hereditary, they might have a similar cause; the lowered ability of the brain to limit these thought patterns. It is possible that many tulpamancers on this forum may have ended up schizophrenic later in life, if they did not learn to interact with, understand, and befriend their thought patterns. Schizophrenia (or certain types of it) may come from the increased risk of producing an autonomous thought pattern, combined with the inability to control them.

We run, to the end, and the future follows

We run, to the end, from bleak tomorrows
10-03-2016, 08:22 AM
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War Offline
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#2
 
RE: Tulpas/Schizophrenia?
I think there is an error in definition here. A tulpa is a person who has their own thoughts and mind. What you are describing as proto-tulpas are probably best labelled as other types of thoughtforms. Notably:

Daemons - Those unconscious thought processes that run in the back of the brain, giving us most of our ideas. Some of them can be really smart and tulpa like. Daemons are probably involved in all sorts of intrusive thoughts as well. My current theory about hearing voices: schizophrenia is about the inability to tell what is real. Normally, a normal mind will hear a daemon and attribute the thought to their own mind voice. A person who hears voices hears a daemon and attributes the thought to some other voice.

IIA characters - These are often created by writers as they write stories. But they happen all the time in normal people as they think about other people. The brain performs a process of mirroring in order to create copies of people in the outer world in our inner model of the world. These people will then behave like they would normally behave in the outer world. This allows us to predict the future. A key ability for holding efficient conversations and collaborative projects.

Both of these shadowy intelligence types pale in comparison to my Tulpa.
10-03-2016, 09:33 AM
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Stevie Offline
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#3
 
RE: Tulpas/Schizophrenia?
(10-03-2016, 08:22 AM)QFlip Wrote: However, the human brain must have some sort of mechanism against this phenomenon to prevent tulpas from being created all the time in this way, otherwise, the mind would create of a tulpa of anyone that was thought about frequently, such as a loved one, a celebrity, etc. 

I think the difference between just thinking about someone a lot and making a tulpa is interacting with them. Like, before I started tulpa stuff, I had all these daydreams that I'd think of during downtime (driving, working, cleaning, whatever) and there were reoccurring characters sometimes but it wasn't like I was actively trying to get them to think or anything, or that they were processing anything about my surroundings to make their own opinions. I don't think a ton of people try to talk with the people they think about a ton, and that's where the failsafe lies.

We're all gonna make it brah.
10-03-2016, 02:21 PM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#4
 
RE: Tulpas/Schizophrenia?
I was gonna start my post with "I think" but then we would've had three posts like that in a row
Usually to make a tulpa you have to want or expect them to actually, you know, be a person in your mind, talk and think and stuff. It's still not immediate but yeah, I don't know of many people who have completely spontaneous tulpas, most of them at the very least had imagined how their tulpa-to-be would think in some way. Like Lumi was trying to establish a canon-headcanon for Touhou characters and thought a lot about his favorites in particular, so maybe they were sort of by default using his idea of what they'd be like. But they weren't quite the characters (like, Reisen never was, and none of them ever considered themselves very attached to the original characters). Other people are like authors, roleplayers, or just plain like to imagine people doing things.

I wasn't spontaneous so I don't really count.

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
10-03-2016, 05:39 PM
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QFlip Offline
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#5
 
RE: Tulpas/Schizophrenia?
(10-03-2016, 09:33 AM)tulpa001 Wrote: A tulpa is a person who has their own thoughts and mind.

I never said tulpas weren't people.

I believe that a tulpa and the existing consciousness are essentially the same. The main differences are age and priority; whatever stable consciousness appeared in the mind first would take primary control over the brain and body. It would be much more difficult to perform any task, especially ones concerning the physical body, for a stable consciousness that appeared or was created afterward. Also, there wouldn't really be much difference between a created and spontaneous tulpa.

As for the proto-tulpas you speak of, these would be autonomous thought patterns that did not, or did not yet, become truly sentient. This is mostly what I meant by the "tulpas" that schizophrenics see; usually they would be malformed or unfinished tulpas. Once in a while there might be a sentient one, but again, it would make no difference to the mind of a schizophrenic.

(10-03-2016, 05:39 PM)Lucilyn Wrote: I was gonna start my post with "I think" but then we would've had three posts like that in a row
Usually to make a tulpa you have to want or expect them to actually, you know, be a person in your mind, talk and think and stuff. It's still not immediate but yeah, I don't know of many people who have completely spontaneous tulpas, most of them at the very least had imagined how their tulpa-to-be would think in some way. Like Lumi was trying to establish a canon-headcanon for Touhou characters and thought a lot about his favorites in particular, so maybe they were sort of by default using his idea of what they'd be like. But they weren't quite the characters (like, Reisen never was, and none of them ever considered themselves very attached to the original characters). Other people are like authors, roleplayers, or just plain like to imagine people doing things.
I wasn't spontaneous so I don't really count.
A spontaneous tulpa happens on accident; often, this is the result of repeated thinking and/or longing for a particular unreachable sentient object, as was my tulpa. Not once did I imagine any ways I could talk to her, how she could exist, or any reason why I would want her to; I knew nothing of tulpas, plurality, or the like until nearly 2 months after she was created. As you can imagine, I panicked at times, since I did not know what she was, if she was a hallucination, a demon, etc.
Because of my experience, I know that spontaneous tulpas aren't totally random, but happen as a combination of several other factors. Also, she wasn't the first fictional character I thought of this way, (and at first, not the most loved either) but she was the first, and only, that actually became sentient. I think that there is some sort of "pattern" to certain thoughts that, for reasons unknown, loop themselves more easily than others.

We run, to the end, and the future follows

We run, to the end, from bleak tomorrows
10-04-2016, 12:15 AM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#6
 
RE: Tulpas/Schizophrenia?
Yeah same for Reisen Tewi and Flandre, Lumi had no intention of making imaginary friends or anything they just appeared. I don't remember how for Tewi and Flan exactly, but it certainly confused Lumi a lot. Reisen was more drawn out as Lumi watched a couple videos with her in them like a lot and interpreted the singing as coming from her. So that's where the start of tulpaness came from. But Tewi and Flan.. maybe they came from some other music? But it would've had to have been waay faster, like in the span of a day rather than months.

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
10-04-2016, 12:51 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#7
 
RE: Tulpas/Schizophrenia?
I was an accidental tulpa too. There was no great longing involved. I mainly just got a lot of exercise in daydreams until the point where I could exert my will and opinions independently.

Host comments in italics. tulpa's log.
10-04-2016, 07:11 AM
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Solune Offline
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#8
 
RE: Tulpas/Schizophrenia?
(10-03-2016, 08:22 AM)QFlip Wrote: Whatever component of the mind that determines the susceptibility to autonomous thought patterns is almost certainly hereditary. Because schizophrenia can also be hereditary, they might have a similar cause; the lowered ability of the brain to limit these thought patterns. It is possible that many tulpamancers on this forum may have ended up schizophrenic later in life, if they did not learn to interact with, understand, and befriend their thought patterns. Schizophrenia (or certain types of it) may come from the increased risk of producing an autonomous thought pattern, combined with the inability to control them.

I think you're onto something here.
My mother tells this story about how she met my father, the short version: she meets my dad at his insurance agency, they hit it off/exchange numbers, and then on the ride home she hears a voice in her mind that says "YOU JUST MET THE MAN YOU'RE GOING TO MARRY." She claims it was God or some sort of angel saying it to her, but I suspect it was simply a thought-form that her belief in God had created.
Luna began as such a thought-form, back when I used to pray every night before going to bed. Like mother like son I suppose.

Also, one of my cousins has paranoid-schizophrenia. After my uncle passed, my dad was the only one left to check in on her. Eventually her complaining about the voices was just too much for my Dad who told her, "The next time they bother you, you tell them who's in charge and if they don't like it they can go to hell!" Now, we all thought that was kind of mean of him to say at the time... but amazingly, she got a lot better after he said that to her. She even got a part time job and managed to rely less on the system to support her. Nobody had ever empowered her to help herself before, you know? Even though it was a rough way to do it, I think my Dad got through to her on a level nobody else could have.

I hate how we constantly victimize people in our society. We strip them of their power to help themselves. Obviously, some people have problems that go beyond their own ability to influence... but where do we draw that line? How do we decide how strong or weak somebody else is?
My mother always tells my brother and I, "Be the hero of your story! Never the victim." And that shit has gotten me through some dark times. Best advice I ever got.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan
Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One and myself (Solune) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian, Beast

10-09-2016, 10:03 PM
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