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Update to glossary
Flandre Offline
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#11
 
RE: Update to glossary
(02-16-2017, 07:42 PM)LostOne Wrote: K: As long as the community can agree on what things like switching is, sure. Main problem is the fact that the definition of switching, host, and even things like co-fronting and merging have different definitions around, which makes it all confusing.

Co-fronting and merging aren't specifically tulpamancy terms. Co-fronting is an umbrella term that includes possession, but we only really have one form of co-fronting here in the first place. Merging means two system members becoming one, right? Since that's so completely varied in how it's done, that's all we really need to define it as.

Host shouldn't be complicated, but there's a complicator. Host traditionally means the original one born into the body that then makes tulpas, or at least is-host-to them if they were spontaneous. But some systems have relatively permanent fronters who aren't the original in the body, but for all intents and purposes are now the "host". That wouldn't typically come up in 'tradition' where tulpas are created on purpose, or show up on their own. That idea is from other communities, or I suppose some people on their own.
"Typically the original person in a system, who has the most responsibility to take care of it." or something like that, maybe.

Tulpa.info has far too many members who didn't simply start here and learn everything they know from Tulpa.info to completely ignore when rewriting our definitions. We don't need to write them as if these now-common exceptions are the norm, but we do need to account for them. We aren't a community for all types of plurality, but we aren't trying to exclude people who want to be here either, not a bubble afraid of change.
Common exceptions should be accounted for but not completely stated as the norm, basically.

Switching shouldn't have different definitions, at least not inside of Tulpa.info. Though I don't understand the arguments on switching's definition we've had here in the past, I think the definition is rather clear-cut and separate from other types of co-fronting, the most common of which by far here is possession. Switching involves (for simplicity's sake, leaving out tulpa<->tulpa switching) the host... Well.

I explicitly remember that the definition I just tried to write was vehemently denied by Sands in the past. "The host enters a tulpa-like state, and the tulpa takes the host's place" or any variation of such, is "Too vague". So I give up. Without a full-fledged guide on how to switch, I have no idea how to define it any better than that. (Unless he specifically declined that definition because it was used in a guide, and would allow it as just a definition, which seems unlikely)

To be completely honest, just ask him or the rest of the GAT for its definition and other complicated ones. I personally don't know how to write most of our definitions any differently than tulpa.io did it, but since it's the GAT's job to establish exactly this sort of thing, consulting them makes the most sense.

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(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017, 08:36 PM by Flandre.)
02-16-2017, 08:33 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#12
 
RE: Update to glossary
One of the major problems with many formulations of the switching definition is they assume that there is such a thing as a host, and a tulpa. I know that seems obvious, but if you assume the host is the original, then you are automatically assuming there is something better, or special, about the host. This itself causes some to reject the host-tulpa terminology itself. This is worse for switching; tulpas can switch with each other. Non-host non-tulpas can also switch with either host or tulpa.

The GAT's job is peer reviewing guides. They are referencing a standard external to themselves when talking about site terminology.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017, 10:11 PM by tulpa001.)
02-16-2017, 09:59 PM
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LostOne Offline
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#13
 
RE: Update to glossary
K: How about this...
Switching: When the person in control of the body, presumably the host, dissociates and disconnects completely from the body while someone else, presumably the tulpa, enters the body and takes control, connecting with the senses.
K: If this isn't it, idk what to say. This from what I know is switching. Yet people still confuse it with possession...

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02-16-2017, 10:54 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#14
 
RE: Update to glossary
One of the original reasons for the host like state and tulpa like state wording is something I know intimately. I have never personally been disconnected from the body's senses unless my host also was.

There is a question of direct or indirect connection, which I believe is relevant, as I essentially hear everything that goes on in my host's mind at all times.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
02-16-2017, 11:22 PM
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Vampire Offline
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#15
 
RE: Update to glossary
I feel a community driven glossary would be the best solution to the definitions, with of course someone moderating it to make sure it is a consensus.

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02-16-2017, 11:26 PM
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Sands Offline
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#16
 
Default  RE: Update to glossary
A glossary is going to need good visibility. Right now the one we have is hidden and not good, so a new one should have an easy link somewhere in sidebars and whatever else. It should not be a free-for-all seeing that this has been causing rampant redefinitions in say, the irc communities where it is impossible for someone to be there to correct people all the time.

Tulpa.info definitions trump all other definitions from other communities in tulpa.info. This is to be kept in mind as you write definitions. Terms like "system" should not be used to describe the definitions, use "person" or "people" as fit instead. Host and tulpa can also be used when it would be easier to understand and shorter to write than an explanation. "Tulpae" and other stupid plurals have to be changed to tulpas on glossary entries that otherwise need no changes, too.


Suggestions:

About the term "host". It is used to mean "original" here these days, and that is the most important thing we can get out of it. It is what people care about more, knowing who is the oldest, basically. If we want to describe who created who, we can say that: x created y. A tulpa does not become a host by creating another tulpa or being the one in "control". And a host might not have actually created any of their tulpas. Being the host should not imply any of these things. A body without a host can exist as well, if something happened to the host – but honestly, no one in this community stays dead outside the actual body dying, so who knows.

Host: The original/first person in the body, or something like that. Could add "often the creator of the other tulpa/tulpas in the body, but not always".

The term "tulpa" should similarly only mean everything else that comes after. They might not have been created, and they can of course create tuppers as we all know. Nothing stops them: they're just people and it's good for us to get newcomers to understand this, too.

Tulpa: The people in the body that have come to existence after the host. Often created intentionally, but not always? That's the same as the end of host uhh so maybe a rewording.

Switching, you know what it is LostOne, so don't try to add in every definition from every other tulpa/whatever mindbuddy site, as this is tulpa.info and we are working on a tulpa.info glossary, not an everything glossary. It is true that host and tulpa don't matter much in switching. In fact, if you consider that a host would be currently in control of the body and the tulpa is in the wonderland like say, watering flowers and not paying any attention to the physical senses, wouldn't that be the host possessing and the tulpa switching?

Taking your definition, we could actually remove the parts and possibly add them in the end. I also fixed it slightly because it fell flat towards the end.

Switching: When the person in control of the body dissociates and disconnects completely from the body and instead focuses on imaginary senses that should be felt as if they were real. Often a skill hosts are practicing, due to many tulpas being good with dissociation and imaginary senses from the start? (that's not even needed though, I feel – but if you feel like it would help?)

Possession should probably be something in a similar vein: Changing of body controllers, whether it is just a single part like an arm (partial possession) or the entire body (full body possession). Usually used to particularly mean that the controller of the body is currently a tulpa, due to hosts often being in control of the physical bodies.

Proxying could also use a change in that it's not just the host relaying messages from the tulpa, it could be anyone doing it to any other person in the head really.

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02-17-2017, 12:27 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#17
 
RE: Update to glossary
I think there is only one thing to keep in mind when creating a glossary. It is an act of documenting the way words are already being used. You have to keep invention out of it.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
02-17-2017, 12:32 PM
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Bosun Offline
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#18
 
RE: Update to glossary
Linguistics are weird because there's a right way of doing things that people will argue for and then there's the way words are actually used, which people will always argue for as well. That's the difficultly of language. It changes and definitions warp and all sorts of stuff goes down, which is why while a glossary would be helpful, it's not going to solve all the problems. So instead of trying to pick one of the two major sides here and find a definition for each term, instead make a list of what people might be referring to when the words are used like, this is what it means actually, but here's where people use it, even though it may not be correct, kind of listing. So even though it has both of the two sides, it's not going to fix everything, but it'll probably cause less fighting over definitions and what should be listed and going one route or another.
02-17-2017, 05:57 PM
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jean-luc Offline
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#19
 
RE: Update to glossary
Can someone link to the wiki? I can't find it.

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02-17-2017, 09:31 PM
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Doctorfoxwolf Offline
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#20
 
RE: Update to glossary
(02-17-2017, 05:57 PM)Bosun Wrote: Linguistics are weird because there's a right way of doing things that people will argue for and then there's the way words are actually used, which people will always argue for as well. That's the difficultly of language. It changes and definitions warp and all sorts of stuff goes down, which is why while a glossary would be helpful, it's not going to solve all the problems. So instead of trying to pick one of the two major sides here and find a definition for each term, instead make a list of what people might be referring to when the words are used like, this is what it means actually, but here's where people use it, even though it may not be correct, kind of listing. So even though it has both of the two sides, it's not going to fix everything, but it'll probably cause less fighting over definitions and what should be listed and going one route or another.

Not quite true. You present it as if there's only the technical and casual definitions on how people use it, but in truth there are many casual ways. That's generally what causes the problem.

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02-17-2017, 09:51 PM
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