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Use of Psychedelic Drugs Severely Hurts Tulpa Info Credibility
#11
(08-31-2015, 04:00 PM)Anderson Wrote: I agree with you, Mistgod. Perhaps we cannot truly generalize on drug users, but the main concern I hold is first how much those drugs actually affect the user; Friend of mine did a few of those drugs and developed many negative habits.

THANK YOU! At least there is some hope here for what I am saying. People have to understand I am a father, a grandfather and also and educator for teenagers at the high schools. I am heavily involved in drug prevention. So how responsible would I be to stay silent on an internet forum and chat filled with young people and seen by young people? It is not attention seeking. It is not judging. It is my morale responsibility and it should be for every adult member of this community!

(08-31-2015, 02:26 PM)Akecalo Wrote: I don't know that I can say anything to restore your faith as requested, but I can at least say that I created both of my tulpas without the use of drugs. They were created using imagination, and dedication. I worked hard on both of them, and as a result ended up with two seemingly independent, reasonably imposed tulpas.

Hurray! I am so happy to read this! YES!
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#12
(08-31-2015, 04:00 PM)Anderson Wrote: And yeah, as saddening as it is, a tulpa should be the product of visualization, and forcing with time and effort...

Have I accidentally opened jackdaniels.tulpa.info or something?

[Shot of distillery in picturesque wooded hills]
Narrator: Maybe it's the look of the Tennessee hills at sundown.
Maybe it's our unhurried way of living down here.
[Shots of men in denim dungarees walking down the road, throwing corks into a bucket, etc.]
Maybe it's our town, our people. Or the simple things we like to do.
Maybe there's just no telling what the reason is.
[Shots of wooden casks]
But since 1866, we've made Jack Daniel's tulpas by the same old method here in the hills of Tennessee. After your first force, you'll know why we always will.
[Dress shot of finished tulpa]
Jack Daniels. Tennessee tulpas.

Don't go telling me that you have to make tulpas the hard way. It's not like they need seven years in a dry warehouse to age before you can talk to them. Tulpas 'should' be an interpersonal relationship with something with human faculties. Because, well, that's the definition. If some people get there more easily than others, you should be paying attention to what methods they're using, rather than shaking your head at the follies of youth.


(08-31-2015, 03:16 PM)Mistgod Wrote: Here's a guy giving instructions in this post : http://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa...2#pid31682

Oh yeah, wouldn't want kids to be informed about drugs, now would we. I'd much rather he warned people about things like datura than let them find out for themselves. Like, you're super involved in drug prevention right? Shouldn't you be aware at this point that the "DRUGS ARE BAD AND SCARY" message didn't work a few decades ago and doesn't work now?

You see in that shrooms thread, you just said the same thing, "In my opinion you shouldn't be taking this drug (or any drug)." Tacked on to this message, any study you post is going to look like a scare tactic, which it basically true. Like that second link - "Mushrooms may permanently alter personality"; here's the actual paper (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3537171/):
Quote:Abstract:
A large body of evidence, including longitudinal analyses of personality change, suggests that core personality traits are predominantly stable after age 30. To our knowledge, no study has demonstrated changes in personality in healthy adults after an experimentally manipulated discrete event. Intriguingly, double-blind controlled studies have shown that the classic hallucinogen psilocybin occasions personally and spiritually significant mystical experiences that predict long-term changes in behaviors, attitudes and values. In the present report we assessed the effect of psilocybin on changes in the five broad domains of personality - Neuroticism, Extroversion, Openness, Agreeableness, and Conscientiousness. Consistent with participant claims of hallucinogen-occasioned increases in aesthetic appreciation, imagination, and creativity, we found significant increases in Openness following a high-dose psilocybin session. In participants who had mystical experiences during their psilocybin session, Openness remained significantly higher than baseline more than one year after the session. The findings suggest a specific role for psilocybin and mystical-type experiences in adult personality change.

Suddenly it's not so D.A.R.E., is it? If you actually disseminated useful, sane and practical information, I don't think people would object. As it is, you're really showing your age here.
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#13
(08-31-2015, 04:55 PM)waffles Wrote: If some people get there more easily than others, you should be paying attention to what methods they're using, rather than shaking your head at the follies of youth.

So you condone the use of illicit drugs in the creation process? You have just proven my point about "senior members" of this forum. This is not good. The more of you that step forward to attack me on this, the less respect I have for the forum.

(08-31-2015, 04:55 PM)waffles Wrote: You see in that shrooms thread, you just said the same thing, "In my opinion you shouldn't be taking this drug (or any drug)." Tacked on to this message, any study you post is going to look like a scare tactic, which it basically true....

Suddenly it's not so D.A.R.E., is it? If you actually disseminated useful, sane and practical information, I don't think people would object. As it is, you're really showing your age here.

Oh yes, and you missed the link I posted about how toxic the mushrooms are and how there is a real danger of long term side effects or causing permanent brain injury or even death. http://www.newportacademy.com/teen-drug-...mushrooms/ Yeah, I am a misinformed old fuddy duddy alright!

EDIT: Also, I quote members talking about having used drugs such as DMT and LSD for visualization. Are you going to tell me next there are no dangers in these drugs as well and it is all scare tactics?
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#14
'Don't go telling me that you have to make tulpas the hard way. It's not like they need seven years in a dry warehouse to age before you can talk to them. Tulpas 'should' be an interpersonal relationship with something with human faculties. Because, well, that's the definition. If some people get there more easily than others, you should be paying attention to what methods they're using, rather than shaking your head at the follies of youth.'

There is no 'hard' way. There is the normal, regular, good ol' way of making tulpas, which is what I had pressed on, and there's the easy way which is what I'd compare to, as Mistgod said, a 'drug induced psychosis'. Furthermore, my concern is also that tulpas wouldn't really get to meet their creator as they are, but in a drugged state; Someone who's drugged acts completely different from how they act when... 'sober' if that's the proper term, depending on the drug, that is.

There is no hard way. If you perceive this as a 'hard' way, you have nothing but my condolences for all the hardships you must have went through, if you did make tulpas in such a tremendously hard, challenging, difficult way. If you perceive this method such as 'hard', when visualization, forcing, 'narrating' while it's practically the same as forcing, are just the basics of tulpamancy...

I don't need to be envious. If people used drugs and made tulpas, then that's cool for them. I publicly express no real judgement on the 'morality' of that, and the legitimacy of the said tulpa. But the strict usage of drugs for tulpamancy is, in a way, and in my own personal/biased opinion, bad. This opinion is mainly issued on the fact that the said tulpa is developed in a 'different' way if we perceive those drugs as some kind of enhancement, now, difference is not bad, quite the opposite, but different in a way it implies less of the previously cited steps (that are really, really hard, sadly), and COULD be regarded as what Mistgod described as a drug induced psychosis. COULD BE, not 'are'.

"Tulpas 'should' be an interpersonal relationship with something with human faculties". Fair enough, I agree. Using chemical enhancers on the other hand is something completely different.

Do what you want with your body, I feel no envy, or jealousy from faster results. It took me a long time to get an answer, I did not use anything, I didn't do drugs, and am quite satisfied with the results at hand. Sorry for holding an opinion, dude. When I was younger, though, the message did work, but we might be a few years off.
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#15
(08-31-2015, 12:40 PM)Mistgod Wrote: If you admit that you have used psychedelic drugs such as magic mushrooms or ecstasy to create and enhance your tulpa, even once, you have lost all credibility with me. I do not respect that at all.

People like you are exactly why I have not, and will not, ever use any sort of drug, or probably even alcohol. Negatives and positives aside, the fact that I even touched marijuana one time could completely discredit anything I say to certain individuals. And as I plan on helping many people with my advice and experiences, drugs are not even an option to consider for me. That being said, if you are capable of resisting the temptation to have more intense experiences, I've been more than convinced that light drug use of I-don't-know-specifics are basically completely harmless. But gateway drugs and addictive personalities are dangerous and unpredictable when advising the masses, especially children, so it's generally better to just say "No drugs are definitely bad" and let those who really, really want to, find them. It's just not worth the risk outside of case-by-case bases.

(08-31-2015, 03:16 PM)Mistgod Wrote: But when I dared to say something critical about using drugs in this post https://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulp...on-welcome I was told my opinion was "off topic" and not welcome.

... Yes, you were and it was. Not that threads trying to encompass all of the forum are a good thing, but this thread was a much more appropriate place to discuss the subject. We're a source of information and must do our best to keep said information organized. Someone who is already comfortable with their use of hallucinogens and is looking into the tulpa phenomenon should not click a thread on the effects of drugs on tulpas, only to find an argument about whether we should be discussing drug use or not. That's a bit more meta and should be discussed elsewhere, like in Forum Questions & Comments. This works though.

(08-31-2015, 04:55 PM)waffles Wrote: Oh yeah, wouldn't want kids to be informed about drugs, now would we. I'd much rather he warned people about things like datura than let them find out for themselves. Like, you're super involved in drug prevention right? Shouldn't you be aware at this point that the "DRUGS ARE BAD AND SCARY" message didn't work a few decades ago and doesn't work now?

That's a fair point, but you're being a bit biased still. I haven't seen pretty much anything at all talking about the negative effects of all the different drugs people seem to use here, and I guarantee they exist. As a non-drug user, I don't feel as if I'm being informed on all of the true effects of drug use here. So while you're right that "DRUGS ARE BAD AND SCARY" doesn't work on everyone, "DRUGS ARE GREAT USE THEM if you want" isn't better at all. I see lots of "It's your choice", but no real reason for it to be a choice at all. Besides the legal and monetary parts, it seems a no brainer that drug use is always a positive experience. I have to agree with Mistgod in that we certainly do portray any and all drug use as either a positive or a neutral thing. So while he shouldn't be posting "DRUGS ARE BAD" on informational threads, there needs to be room for the opposition too. Yes, we are here to provide information, but if we're providing that information to people who may be influenced in negative ways, it is our responsibility to cover the ethics of what we say. Or rather becomes our responsibility once the topic is of a sensitive nature like drug use.

I reiterate that, as a non-drug user, I see literally nothing about why drug use could ever be a bad thing from any of these threads I draw information from. And of course plenty of good/neutral. Information is great, and while assuming only already-interested parties are looking for/being influenced by this information is easy, it should be taken into account that we may be influencing people to make poor decisions by not giving enough information.


But hey, I'm still neutral on this whole subject. Just moderating between the opposing sides and providing my understanding. I have no qualms, just an urge to help people understand each other, and there was some misunderstanding going on. Try and listen to each other now that your own feelings have been stated.
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
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#16
(08-31-2015, 05:34 PM)Luminesce Wrote: People like you are exactly why I have not, and will not, ever use any sort of drug, or probably even alcohol.

AWESOME! You just made the entire stress out of this thread and all the hostility directed my way worth it. Thank you.
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#17
(08-31-2015, 05:12 PM)Mistgod Wrote: So you condone the use of illicit drugs in the creation process? You have just proven my point about "senior memebers" of this forum. This is not good. The more of you that step forward to attack me on this, the less respect I have for the forum.

The point that a lot of people condone drug use in making tulpas? Yes, that's basically what I said. Though I was replying to Anderson and not you, because you are making two very different points. Also, again with the fucking 'attack' rhetoric. You're not being attacked, your view/opinions are.


(08-31-2015, 05:12 PM)Mistgod Wrote: Oh yes, and you missed the link I posted about how toxic the mushrooms are and how there is a real danger of long term side effects or causing permanent brain injury or even death. http://www.newportacademy.com/teen-drug-...mushrooms/ Yeah, I am a misinformed old fuddy duddy alright!

I clicked on the link I did arbitrarily. Still, I looked through that page. It says that there is not danger of long-term toxicity. Please, just, read the thing yourself. Fly agaric mushrooms are the toxic ones. Hey, that would be useful to know, wouldn't it, how to take the things that aren't dangerous. The 'permanent brain injury' you mean is probably the flashbacks from bad trips. Okay. And nothing about risk of death. So, same thing applies. It's not really a scare-fest like you make it out to be.





(08-31-2015, 05:12 PM)Anderson Wrote: Furthermore, my concern is also that tulpas wouldn't really get to meet their creator as they are, but in a drugged state; Someone who's drugged acts completely different from how they act when... 'sober' if that's the proper term, depending on the drug, that is.
[...]
But the strict usage of drugs for tulpamancy is, in a way, and in my own personal/biased opinion, bad. This opinion is mainly issued on the fact that the said tulpa is developed in a 'different' way if we perceive those drugs as some kind of enhancement, now, difference is not bad, quite the opposite, but different in a way it implies less of the previously cited steps (that are really, really hard, sadly), and COULD be regarded as what Mistgod described as a drug induced psychosis. COULD BE, not 'are'.

Well yeah, if you only interact with your tulpa while on drugs. Like, only. Not really what tends to go on. What is it with the 'drug-induced psychosis' going on? Unless the person in question is really high all the time, I don't see how this is an issue. If the drugs are out of your system and your tulpa isn't, is it still a 'drug-induced psychosis'?


(08-31-2015, 05:12 PM)Anderson Wrote: "Tulpas 'should' be an interpersonal relationship with something with human faculties". Fair enough, I agree. Using chemical enhancers on the other hand is something completely different.

It's not different. That's the point here. I didn't say "something that wasn't created with the aid of drugs". I'm saying that the method of creation isn't core to what's going on. As far as I can see, you're still privileging the process you went through, because you enjoyed it. Or because it's "the basics". I don't get it. What's so core about it, if you can get the same results without it? If someone doesn't enjoy it, and there are other (yes, easier) options available, why should they go through it?


(08-31-2015, 05:12 PM)Anderson Wrote: Sorry for holding an opinion, dude.

Oh, spare me, God.





(08-31-2015, 05:34 PM)Luminesce Wrote: That's a fair point, but you're being a bit biased still. I haven't seen pretty much anything at all talking about the negative effects of all the different drugs people seem to use here
[...]
I have to agree with Mistgod in that we certainly do portray any and all drug use as either a positive or a neutral thing.
[...]
I reiterate that, as a non-drug user, I see literally nothing about why drug use could ever be a bad thing from any of these threads I draw information from.

I mean, other than you'll get slapped in the face with a list of adverse effects as soon as you so much as search for any drug on Wikipedia? Well, take the drug advice post that's been mentioned a few times already (http://community.tulpa.info/thread-tulpa...2#pid31682):

Quote:[DMH and DPH] Read up on both chemicals, because going into a diliriant high without knowing your stuff can be a recipe for disaster.

[DXM] Be absolutely certain the only ingredient is Dextromethorphan HCl. About 60% of DXM containing products have Acetaminophen, and/or Chlorpheniramine Maleate, which cause liver failure and seizures, bleeding, and death in high doses respectively.

[NO2] It's found in whip-it containers, whipped cream canisters, and some compressed air. I wouldn't recommend the last two, as they're often mixed with aerosols, and aren't good to breathe in large amounts.

[Datura] Eating the seeds of the datura plant will produce a high akin to a mixture of paranoid schizophrenia, massive amounts of alcohol, and DPH that can last for days. If you think you've got the balls, read a few trip reports on the drug before you dive in, and be extremely careful with your dosage.

[Nutmeg] The high is sort of like swallowing ipecac, then getting jump kicked in the stomach by Bruce Lee after downing an entire bottle of sleeping pills while underwater. I tried it as a teenager, and it was incredibly unpleasant. But it was a high.

Barrel of laughs, right? Maybe implicit is that you really should do your own research on these things, but even if you insisted on sticking to what's posted on the forum, it's not like it's all fun and games. That said, I do agree that the majority of opinions posted are drug-positive/neutral. So it would be good if more people posted about possible adverse effects and sensible advice; we do have a drug educator in this thread, don't we, Mistgo - never mind.
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#18
(08-31-2015, 05:47 PM)Mistgod Wrote: AWESOME!

Lmfao, that made me laugh pretty hard. I was expecting something more serious.

... But hey, that's not what I meant! Maybe I wanted to smoke recreationally to help ease my stress and have a better time, and I'm well disciplined enough for it to not hurt me financially or lure me to more dangerous drugs, but I can't because doing so would discredit all of my experiences and opinions. I don't, but I could've. It's not really fair I have to keep such a clean record just so I can help people. I know you're extremely strict on don'tdodrugsever, but there really are a lot of situations where it won't hurt you at all. I can't speak for like, shrooms, but I know marijuana and other drugs people constantly call natural really can be safe. I'd personally sooner take advice from someone who smokes marijuana often than someone who drinks alcohol often, but guess which one society cares about?

But whatever, I'm just ranting. That was funny and my point's been made.
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
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#19
(08-31-2015, 06:02 PM)Luminesce Wrote: Lmfao, that made me laugh pretty hard. I was expecting something more serious.

LOL DAMNIT, good feelings of total triumph are gone! (almost)


I give up. I'm done. I said my piece and everybody understands where my position is. A "Drugs are Bad!" message actually exists in some form in the forum now. I am content.
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#20
I mean, not discrediting your exclamation. I just saw you reply and was like, oh, I wonder if he's reacted critically to my statements, should start preparing mentally to reply with more serious thought - oh. Okay. (And by oh okay I meant hahahahaha)

If you took everything a little more calmly and less as an attack on yourself, you wouldn't have to be stressed at all. I stick myself right in the middle of heated arguments all the time and I only feel better for having helped if anything.

@waffles To be completely fair... all of my knowledge is strictly from the forum. I never cared enough to actually look anything up, just read what I happened upon. So that may be a good counterpoint I guess. But still, warnings on a wikipedia page mean nothing compared to the social take they'd get from reading real humans talking about it.
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
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