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Would it be cruel for me to create a Tulpa?


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Before I get into this post, I have one important thing to say. I don't want anyone commenting "don't do it" or the like. This is something I have thought about for a long time, and comments like that will mean nothing. I've seen it all before anyways. 

 

 

Now, for the actual question.

Would it be cruel for someone like me to create a Tulpa?

 

I have been suicidal for years now. And, through rational thoughts and months of thinking, I have decided that I will one day end my life. It doesn't matter how old I am. But I know that I want to be in charge of my own death.

Now, knowing this, would it be cruel for me to create a Tulpa?

If I were to create one, I would notify them of this and make sure they understand. It's something I feel very strongly about, and has become a core part of my personality as well. 

I imagine that with a tulpa not prepared for this, that this would be insanely cruel.

But, if I were to create a tulpa who is aware about this all from the beginning, would that be okay?

 

I am just worried about creating another being in my mind, and then when I ultimately do decide to act, that they would view it as murder or something similar. I don't want that. I have no intention of being cruel.

 

Thank you in advance for any replies. And again, I'll restate, please post things related to my question, not related to my thoughts. I will say up front that I will ignore any posts that try and discourage me from doing it. It's not going to happen now anyways. It's simply the choice I've came to based on months of rational and philosophical thought.

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well, will you be okay with them not being okay with it? Who says they're gonna be immediately resigned and victimized? Just 'cause you're sure of yourself doesn't mean they will be. If I were in that situation as a tulpa, I would try and make my host happy and enjoy life. Obviously I don't wanna die, but I wouldn't want him to either, and y'know maybe I don't agree with the logic people use to justify ending their own lives (I don't). Are you gonna be a brick wall because you've decided to put an artificial time limit on your life because you've decided to put an artificial time limit on your life, or would you at least listen to them? I'm not even saying "Is there a chance you'll change your mind?", just, are you just going to say "No, tulpa, I hath decided to end this life for reasons and you shall not sway me. Make of your time what you will." because that's pretty sucky

 

So, no, you shouldn't make a tulpa if you're gonna be like that. I'm even willing to say there's a difference in not planning on changing your mind, and enforcing "End of argument." on any conversation about it. Idk. Even if you never change your mind, your tulpa fairly getting to talk it out thoroughly with you - and feeling like they were listened to - is important. But if you can't do that, then no, it's pretty cruel to bring someone aboard a sinking ship...

 

so I guess the question is whether or not they'll get to enjoy a cruise first, you know? Maybe not hit an iceberg your path is as-of-now set to hit? Every life is temporary, so theoretically everyone who wants to make a tulpa, have a child, or to some extent even just forge strong friendships, has to decide whether the time will be worth the eventual loss. With a pet, it's a lot about whether you'll enjoy the time you have with them enough, but with a tulpa it's almost entirely the dread of death itself since neither of you would be around afterward. You know? The difference in me and your tulpa would be yours might be afraid of not living a long enough life. But you can experience so much in just a few years. I'm not even three years old yet! But the others in my system are almost eight. Now, our philosophy is obviously a thousand times more pleasant to have than yours since you plan to end your own life but we appreciate every second we're given, but - I gotta mention all of us would be okay with being told we only had X amount of time to live. If that's how our life's gonna be, then we say alright, it's been really great and we're glad we got the chance to be together and experience what we have. And we'd be even more happy to have another 70+ years together!

 

But yeah, your tup might not end up sharing our philosophy on death, and doing the absolutely reasonable thing and doingLiterallyEverythingTheyCanToAvoidIt and experiencing dread at the thought of, you know, not living "long enough".

 

That's all I can really say on the subject though. I couldn't tell you if your tulpa was going to feel one way or the other... So basically, it's up to whether you think their life will have been worth living and not also full of dread the entire time? I don't think anyone can decide that for them, maybe not even you.

Hi, I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

I think being happy and having fun makes life worth living, so spreading happiness is my number one goal!

Talk to us? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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well, will you be okay with them not being okay with it?

 

I don't believe anyone would be completely okay with it. But understanding it would be good enough.

 

Are you gonna be a brick wall because you've decided to put an artificial time limit on your life because you've decided to put an artificial time limit on your life, or would you at least listen to them? I'm not even saying "Is there a chance you'll change your mind?"

 

I mean, there is a chance that this whole experience could change my mind. It's not impossible. As it currently stands, I don't believe my mind will be changing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is completely out of the picture.

 

I'm even willing to say there's a difference in not planning on changing your mind, and enforcing "End of argument." on any conversation about it. Idk. Even if you never change your mind, your tulpa fairly getting to talk it out thoroughly with you - and feeling like they were listened to - is important. But if you can't do that, then no, it's pretty cruel to bring someone aboard a sinking ship...

 

I would never enforce an "end of argument". Honestly, I would be kind of expecting fair talks about it. And I would take what they say to heart.

 

so I guess the question is whether or not they'll get to enjoy a cruise first, you know? Maybe not hit an iceberg your path is as-of-now set to hit? Every life is temporary, so theoretically everyone who wants to make a tulpa, have a child, or to some extent even just forge strong friendships, has to decide whether the time will be worth the eventual loss.

 

I'm not sure if this seems selfish or not, but honestly I do believe it would be worth the time; they could possibly even help me through a lot of the problems I struggle with on a day-to-day basis. I don't plan on doing it any time soon, so it wouldn't necessarily be a short life. If anything, knowing when you would die would be reassuring to me; I could plan things out accordingly. I'm not sure how it would be for them though.

 

Now, our philosophy is obviously a thousand times more pleasant to have than yours since you plan to end your own life but we appreciate every second we're given, but - I gotta mention all of us would be okay with being told we only had X amount of time to live. If that's how our life's gonna be, then we say alright, it's been really great and we're glad we got the chance to be together and experience what we have. And we'd be even more happy to have another 70+ years together!

 

I try to enjoy the time I've given. It's hard at times. Really hard. And it's something I struggle with. But regardless of that, I still try. I want to enjoy the time I do have.

 

That's all I can really say on the subject though. I couldn't tell you if your tulpa was going to feel one way or the other... So basically, it's up to whether you think their life will have been worth living and not also full of dread the entire time? I don't think anyone can decide that for them, maybe not even you.

 

Yeah, there's no way to know in advance.... I could hope for the best, that they wouldn't live in constant dread. I want to enjoy my life as much as they would want to.

 

I'll keep thinking about it for a while. Because something like this is a big decision, and I know that it's not something to be taken lightly.

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you've got my (valueless) seal of approval with those responses, I was thinking about parallels to your situation like people with a terminal illness or dangerous living situation and whether they "should" make a tulpa or not too, and I gave you the answer I'd give them pretty much. If you want to enjoy life, and will do your best to be fair to your tulpa, that's all that matters to me!

 

But by all means continue thinking about it yourself, and since you say you've been doing so for a while it wouldn't hurt to think about the things I brought up either. In my opinion, the most important thing is that you want to enjoy life, and that you're not absolutely deadset on hearing nothing but your own opinion. Again, even if you don't plan on changing your opinions (on any subject at all), there's a huge difference in still listening to others and refusing to do that.

Hi, I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

I think being happy and having fun makes life worth living, so spreading happiness is my number one goal!

Talk to us? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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In my opinion, the most important thing is that you want to enjoy life, and that you're not absolutely deadset on hearing nothing but your own opinion. Again, even if you don't plan on changing your opinions (on any subject at all), there's a huge difference in still listening to others and refusing to do that.

 

Yep. One thing I've tried to avoid my whole life is being close minded. I used to be relatively close minded, and believed that whatever I thought was best. I'm glad that I no longer think that way. I've even been able to live a somewhat happier life due to that now than before. And I truly believe that everyone should at least listen. You never know when you'll hear something that you had never considered before, and getting fresh perspectives on situations is always a good thing.

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since tulpas live in the same brain you do, they're good at understanding what you've got to work with and being a lot more "hit" than "miss" when it comes to giving advice from another perspective, unlike with other people who can be well meaning but not quite understand how you think you know?

Hi, I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

I think being happy and having fun makes life worth living, so spreading happiness is my number one goal!

Talk to us? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Would it be cruel for someone like me to create a Tulpa?

 

I have been suicidal for years now.

 

Nope. Tulpas tend to prevent suicides. Also, it won't be your life anymore, so you lose the right to end it without consent.

 

If your tulpa becomes strong enough, they will overpower you if you make an attempt, and may even force you inside and take over.

 

From such a state, it is possible to simply cease to exist by thinking less and less.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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[Violet] Lucilyn hit a lot of the important things in a good way.

 

I have one major thing to add. Part of living with other people under the same brain is learning to be less possessive of the outerworld body since it is shared and learning to distinguish oneself from the outerworld body (since it is shared after all). You have your plans to eventually end your own life. Any tulpa/s you make may want to continue living instead of going out with you. There is an option that would allow both parties to do their plans in this regard. That is, you would not commit bodily suicide in outerworld and instead commit suicide inside the system, letting them continue their life/lives with the body. It is doable. Also, they may insist on it VERY STRONGLY, and rightfully so. It will be their body too, and their lives on the line. It is the best option, and out of the various choices, the most ethical I believe. There are still ethical questions, but a lot less than with planning bodily suicide since you would be only ending yourself, not them too.

 

Brought this up because many of my system-mates talked about this a long time ago and came to an agreement for ourselves - bodily suicide requires unanimous agreement but suicide inside does not require the agreement of anybody else except the person doing it (except subsystem suicide which requires the agreement of everyone else in the subsystem, but then suicide within the subsystem doesn't) though it is discouraged.

Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

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I try not to encourage permaswitching because it can seem like an "easy out" that'll make people who could've reached a better conclusion with the help of their tups just give up instead. But sure, if it came to that point I guess permaswitching is better than killing the whole system. BUT I'll still say, you don't have to commit suicide once you're not the host anymore either! Hypotheoreticallmaybe your reasons for wanting to do so wouldn't be a problem anymore, right?

 

like, we've got someone in our system with no will to live as a tulpa, but like, she has no will to die either. So she just stays inactive and we try not to bug her, but she's still around if she has a reason to be. And maybe someday our life situation will be totally different and she'll be interested in participating in it again? idk? my point is, you don't have to actually die if we're talking permaswitching (which, we aren't necessarily yet, even suicidal hosts might not be comfortable with someone else living their life and that's fair), and in that scenario your tulpa can theoretically live your life 'till it's in a better place and maybe you could be active again..

 

but I still don't recommend permaswitching except as a very last resort. I think you should try out living life with a supportive tupper for a while and see if they can at least make it a little more bearable, if not turn it around entirely like Reisen did for our host (:

Hi, I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

I think being happy and having fun makes life worth living, so spreading happiness is my number one goal!

Talk to us? https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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I think that is one of our philosophical differences. The phrase "easy way out" is automatically subjective, and the connotation may be false from some perspectives. Ditto for "better conclusion".

 

I think it is particularly important to note these days, as a host recently committed suicide, taking their entire system with them. And you are right. Their tulpas had saved them from prior egocide attempts. By forcing the host, they inevitably doomed themselves.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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