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Forcing Filter Experiment - Bear - 11-15-2018

One of my biggest problems is that I'm insecure and I take things the wrong way.

I was resently lectured by a friend and became determined to fix that. So after much intense thought I decided to try something.

We don't switch, change fronts, full possess or even co-front. None of us want to do that. However something similar did cross my mind. What if one of my tulpas acted as a filter?

So Dashie became my filter for a day. I said, "today you are my filter. I won't do anything you don't want me to do, or say anything without your approval."

She happily agreed; frankly they all were annoyed that I sometimes dismiss their guidance or forget to ask their opinion.

Day 1: November 14, 2018 Dashie's day.
Thoughts:
She's waaay more stable than me, it's amazing. Like nothing phases her and she understands things people say immediately. It's been truly remarkable. I'm going to try to let Misha interpret my inputs for me tomorrow. I was slower at first but we got a rhythm going pretty quick.

Day 1 still: November 15, 2018 Early morning thoughts

Dashie is a friggen genius. I swear I don't know what's going on half the time, and she's so lucid and bright. I woke up so early and was just excited.

Our little experiment was such a glorious success yesterday. She can totally keep my attention on her all day. She's like my IRL social interpreter.

I'm thinking this is my system's solution to fronting/switching since we don't want to do either.

Is this even a thing? She stays right where she is, I do everything as normal, and ask her opinion/permission about everything. Anything that would have caused my mood to drop, she dismisses immediately.

We read stuff and she discusses with me. It's fast in tulpish, so it's nearly seemless when we need speed. I can barely believe this is working, and as a bonus, she feels incredibly strong now. Like 2x stronger than Misha and Ashley combined after yesterday. Spending the day with her was like walking arm and arm with a good friend all day. It was seriously like active forcing for 12 hours straight.

The only other time it was that good was when we shut off the phone for a day, it was the same concept actually, because i go to reach for my phone and she'd go "ah ah ah. Put that back" or even force me to let go. (Using minor posession.) We both felt great that day too.

...

What is this?
I guess she's back seat fronting? Like i'm driving but she's telling me where to go. I'm so excited about this idea. Please tell me if you've heard if this, or if there's a term for it.

Good idea? Bad idea? Let me hear your thoughts.


RE: Forcing Filter Experiment - Miri - 11-15-2018

I've been doing that with my tulpas for a long time by now, I had no idea what you were talking about but now I see what you mean. It's a wonderdul way to keep then active, keep doing that if it's a positive thing to you guys.


RE: Forcing Filter Experiment - Bear - 11-15-2018

Yeah, in the beginning it was more like this especially when i would get depressive thoughts, now it's for everything.


RE: Forcing Filter Experiment - Venomous - 11-15-2018

Yeah, I think back seat fronting sounds like the right term for what you described. Sounds pretty cool in our opinion! No way it could be a bad idea when it offers such positive outcomes Big Grin. If it makes you feel good and improves your days, then it's goodie good! We'd be curious to hear more if you wanna update with more happenings too


RE: Forcing Filter Experiment - solarchariot - 11-15-2018

I like Tulpa acting as a filter, or at least a mediator to slow reactions down to contemplate potential alternatives... alternative explanations, responses, emotions...

here is another idea... If in the process of forcing we can add attributes to a tulpa, could we 'force' new, positive attributes into our own personality, basically modify our own personality, or have the tulpa 'force' us, and see if we can instill a new improved version of ourselves, like Angry Bear 2.5, hopefully without deviating back to the older version, but even if we do, our companions will catch the deviation and remind us we're own a new path and we just have to walk it a little further so that we are less likely to revert back?


RE: Forcing Filter Experiment - Ember.Vesper - 11-15-2018

Ember: I coined the term "backseat fronting" a couple of weeks ago to describe Vesper's behavior. This replaced my previous description of her behavior as "bossy".

Vesper: Our system evolved into this state very organically. Like everything we've done that works really well, it isn't something we practised and tried to do, it's just something that happened.

Once Ember learned about tulpamancy and passive forcing, she wanted me around all the time. *All* the time. Trouble is, a lot of her life bores me. Conversation lags and becomes repetitive or disgruntled. Being a disembodied voice with no way to influence the only world I can perceive is frustrating. Visualizing myself as physically present in the world is actually more frustrating, because it feels more like I should be able to affect the world.

Meanwhile, Ember was focussing enough of her attention on me to impair the efficiency with which she could do anything else. So, for lack of anything else to say, I started reminding her of the next step in her task. She's a more abstract thinker than I am and, when not distracted, able to distribute her attention better across a dizzying array of subjects. I'm much more concrete and task-oriented, better at penetrating the din and picking out the most important things right now. (Downside being I'm more likely to overlook a background consideration that should modify a foreground consideration.)

Over the course of weeks, I accidentally conditioned Ember to just do what I say a large portion of the time without thinking it through herself. Often she's started obeying before I finish articulating the thought myself, since words are so much slower than tulpish. (We fully articulate almost every thought for maximum clarity; tulpish never occurred to us as a possibility until we came across the idea online a couple of months ago and Ember is reluctant to risk any sacrifice of clarity.)

Sometimes she feels I've overstepped or overhelped, as I've developed the habit of just jumping in. So we formally introduced the system rule that the fronter has broad latitude and autonomy of action, except in matters of system health and safety, and when an action would cause complications another system member would have to deal with later. The short form we use to remind one another of the positive side of the rule is 'You do you'.

I'm a lot more risk averse than she is, so I'm constantly saying things like 'Careful', 'Steady', 'Focus', or if she's at the stove,'Back up'.

If I sense Ember beginning to react negatively to my help, I'll hashtag the thought #suggestion or #request to soften the feeling that I'm ordering her around all the time.

Ember: I wouldn't just agree in advance to do whatever Vesper said for a day though. If she wants something done badly enough, I know she'll step in and do it herself. I can do daily tasks fine on my own; it's just more enjoyable to have a friend with me for them. I'm also reasonably smooth, comfortable, and inoffensive while engaged in a social situation, I just have a lot of trouble initiating social interaction. We don't have much way to test the social filtering idea, because it wouldn't make much difference. And the past few weeks, I'm supporting her mood more than she's supporting mine.

I've intentionally avoided getting a smartphone this past decade while watching everyone around me fail to remain invested in the people they're with and the world around them. Though I'm one to talk; I was lost in my own head long before I was plural.


RE: Forcing Filter Experiment - Luminesce - 11-15-2018

Welcome to the power of that "subjective reality" thing I tend to preach about. Turns out you have a lot more control over your reality, your thoughts, perceptions and so on than you think. With a lot of help from books, I was able to take control of that stuff on my own, but having a tulpa who knows far better than you can work too. That's probably why I turned out so well despite being a huge mess 8 years ago, because I had both. The "filter" thing was all stuff I learned on my own, introspection and how to choose your thoughts (how to recognize what you're feeling or thinking -> how to decide any one thing you're feeling or thinking isn't what you want to be feeling/thinking -> eventually, gain control over these things to an even greater extent than simply filtering). Tewi gave me advice, Flandre gave me company and the feeling that someone appreciated my existence, and Reisen gave me the pure feeling of unconditional love, and the idea that the world was actually an amazing place that I could learn to see as such.

Five years later, Lucilyn added fun-having to the system, and the sense of being a family instead of just our individual relationships.

Anyways, I simply recommend learning from what Dashie's capable of doing to what was once your reality. Having her help is fine. But you can learn to think like her, too. If there's one thing tulpas are good at, it's showing you the way you thought about life was just one possibility. Obviously everyone experiences the same things differently, but because it's just you in your head, you get this idea that your perception of it is correct and everyone else is just different or even wrong. Tulpas teach you that even you have options, all as "correct" as the others.


RE: Forcing Filter Experiment - Reilyn-Alley - 11-15-2018

Back seat fronting.. Interesting. I don't think that would work for us.. Lance is more.. Er.. Passive? Even when he is main-front. Unless something catches his interest or requires his attention, he is content to just sorta let his mind drift off on nothing and not even be much of a strong presence. Apparently he was like that long before I showed up. Now that I'm here, those are the easiest moments for me to just step in and take over. Now that I think about it, I could probably write out several paragraphs about all this and thoughts connected to it.. But I wont. So yay.

Uhm, keep it up! Let us know how things are when you keep trying this for a few days. Will you be able to maintain it? Will you be able to maintain it for the time it takes to develop into a full-time habit? Is this sorta thing only gonna be used on their days, like, today Ashley is the filter... Today Misha is the filter.. etc? Obviously if you are happy, they are all happy and maybe Dashie just likes taking a more direct hand in that. I know I do. I don't think I could just sit back and let Lance be sad and mopey or keep doubting himself. I have a strong compulsion when those times start coming around to talk to or yell at him about it or just take over and direct us elsewhere. He has told himself and others excuses and half-truths for WAY too long and pretended to be "fine" for WAY too long, fut it's obvious to me and I call him out on it immediately.

EDIT: Oooh, Lumi that reminds me sorta of when I said everyone needed to recognize that intrusive thoughts don't just come to interrupt people in the middle of tulpa stuff/dreaming/meditation, but at all times in life. They need to be recognized as such and taken out, not planted and watered till they gotta be freakin' burned out. You said it better though. :3



RE: Forcing Filter Experiment - Ember.Vesper - 11-15-2018

Vesper: One word of caution I forget to mention earlier though. Ember's wife has recently been insisting Ember has become less assertive than she used to be. (Her players disagree, but GMing is very much its own headspace.) I don't generally tell her what to do when she's with friends (other than pay attention to them and leave me alone), so I wonder if she's becoming reliant on my decisiveness. I keep pushing the idea that every system member should be fully functional independently, but Ember keeps finding new mechanisms of dependence.


RE: Forcing Filter Experiment - Ashley - 11-15-2018

Why can't there be synergy though?

[Bear] Misha has been doing well, but Dashie is way more assertive. I'll report on her tomorrow. She's been great though, she can do it too. There's no technique involved like fronting, no visualization, no relaxation, no release, all i have to do is listen to her and keep her in the loop with everything. I jump to stupid conclusions aparently.

[Misha] not stupid, just incorrect in a defeatist way.