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Everything posted by SparrowNR

  1. Hi Tulpa. I don’t think we’ve directly spoken, but I’m Sparrow, host of Joss and Temar (among others). I’m not on the guide team, but I do work as a professional technical editor, so my soulbonds and I decided to give this a tackle, since you said you were hoping to really get it polished up. It… uh… turned into a bit of a lengthy system discussion. See the hidden tags. Standard disclaimer: This is the opinion of one system. We think a guide like this (one that’s recent and reflects tulpamancy in its current form) would be great to have, and so would like to help guide you on how to make it the best guide possible. Please try not to take any criticism said here personally, and take everything with a grain of salt. 1.1 [hidden] Temar: “This interpretation is false.” Huh. Bold statement. I can’t help but kneejerk against that, unless we missed some big revelation during our last break? Joss: No evidence. That’d do it. Felicity: Not so much the lack of evidence as the failure to connect the provided evidence with the statement. It seems to assume a particular definition for “hallucination” without actually explicitly defining the term. It seems to assume that the “hallucination” argument precludes unconscious hallucinations, which has never really struck me to be the case of that argument. Though I suppose that is addressed in the sections that follow? Joss: Oh boy. This woke Felicity up. This is going to get interesting. Sparrow: I think the solution to the dissonance in this section is to rename it something other than “hallucination,” since “hallucination” would describe 1.2 and 1.3, as well, when this specifically seems to be talking about something that the tulpamancer is at least semi-conscious of. Maybe “roleplaying” or “pretending” might fit better. Felicity: That doesn’t seem quite correct either. Really, I would take 1.1 out altogether, at least with regards to having it refer to a theory on the forum... Joss: Which it’s not, btw. I don’t think we’ve ever seen anyone arguing the sort of tulpamancy theory that these specific points are trying to refute. Felicity: …and rather have this be a section of known evidence on what evidence there is of tulpamancy as a phenomenon. Joss: That just complicates things. Just take it out. The idea that “tulpas are hallucinations” can be refuted by “but they can go against the host!” just hurts my brain. Felicity: Our brain, technically. Joss: Dammit, Felicity. If you’re going to be this pedantic the whole time, we are never getting through this whole thing. [/hidden] 1.2 [hidden] Sparrow: This section seems more sound. Temar: Yeah, this is pretty much exactly the sort of thing Felicity and I have argued, with the caveat that we usually add an “if this is the case, no problem! You do you.” Sparrow: I’m getting stuck on the sentence “This is truly amazing if this theory is true, but it does not disprove anything.” I think because the second part doesn’t follow from the first. Are we trying to disprove anything? What is it implying that we are trying to disprove? Felicity: Perhaps the idea that this theory is correct? The section’s final paragraph does seem to be looking to disprove the point. Which, while I will agree that the systems who have separate memories, sleep schedules, etc., are fascinating, that does not necessarily disprove the theory stated in this section. Nor does it mean that all tulpamancy systems function in the same way. It could very well be that multiple of these definitions are true across different systems. Joss: The point is, our suggestion is take out “This doesn’t disprove anything.” Let’s move on. Sparrow: Oh, and one other thing in the last sentence: “More common in other plurality communities, but most tulpas also claim these abilities.” Can we get a citation or link on that “most?” Was there a poll or something? [/hidden] 1.3 [hidden] Sparrow: “insulting.” That just pinged my subjective-dar, hard. Tulpa, if you’re looking to sound professional here, take that out. Present the argument and let the reader decide if it’s insulting. There’s no room for that in any sort of professional writing. Felicity: Well, I’ve included such subjectivity in my own guides over at Sparrow: Right, but that’s usually couched with several iterations of “This is my subjective opinion, not fact.” This has no such disclaimers. Also, those guides were somewhat less formal than this is trying to be. Temar: My red flag here is how casually this section's argument is brushed aside. Joss: So biased guide is biased? Temar: Unfortunately, yes. I guess the question is whether Tulpa is trying to create an unbiased guide. If not, perhaps a disclaimer of “this is one tulpa’s opinion” at the top may help, yeah? Felicity: My quibble here is that it completely brushes aside the debate on what sentience is, which is what many people who advocate this definition are saying. It is certainly a fact that the definition of “sentience” is not so cut-and-dry as this section makes it seem. Joss: *hits up google* Bam. “Sentient: responsive to or conscious of sense impressions; aware.” So Tulpa’s definition mostly hits the mark. Felicity: Right, but it discounts what this argument is all about. There is little doubt that tulpas and similar thoughtforms seem to feel things. We certainly seem sentient. But the entire question is whether or not that perceived feeling and awareness is in fact true or illusory. Of course it seems so to us, but it may just be that the unconscious processes that run us simply make it seem that way to our host. Which, as Temar said in 1.2, is not necessarily a problem. We could very well be entirely illusory and still exist legitimately, as that state. Even the mention of endocrinal responses does not discount this theory, and I would say that the “major challenge” that is mentioned is no challenge at all, because it doesn’t do anything to address the reasons why this theory would be sound. Sparrow: I would also get away from calling sentience an “essential human characteristic.” It’s just so subjective, and I would say that’s probably the most “insulting” part of this entry, because it basically says that systems who subscribe to this theory don’t think their tulpas are people. Joss: Agreed. The point about switching is weak, too. As someone who switches, I’ll agree that switching is good evidence that something is happening there. But it doesn’t mean either “illusory” theory is wrong… it could just mean that the illusion is driven by something complicated. Which, hey, look at that, tulpas are complicated. Sparrow: Really, we wouldn't be having nearly so much trouble with all these if they weren’t so clearly subjective. I think Temar’s “disclaimer at the top” idea would alleviate that a lot. [/hidden] 1.4 [hidden] Temar: Heh. Yeah, we are pretty convincing. :) Felicity: Really, I wouldn’t be surprised if other systems run via parallel processing, so there’s nothing logically unsound about this one. However, I would again like to state that the fact that we are quite active and opinionated in no way discounts the “illusory” theories. Sparrow: Hrm. I so want to add Oxford commas to this section, but I suppose this isn’t following my publishing style guide, so I’ll leave the lists alone, unless I see something that gets confusing because of it. :p Joss: Aaaaargh, so biased. This is obviously the one Tulpa believes, and to hell with the other theories. Those are pretty much brushed under the rug compared to how in-depth this one is. [/hidden] 1.5 [hidden] Joss: *Very consciously says nothing* Sparrow: This guide is covering all theories. It makes sense that there is one on metaphysical theories in here. Joss: I know. Did you not see me not saying anything? Felicity: The assertion that tulpas are not demons is unfounded. I understand why such a statement is in there, as it assuages many readers’ fears about tulpas in a spiritual context… but the reasoning is equal in transparency to the reasoning in 1.2 and 1.3. The assertion is simply stated as fact, and then discarded with little thought to the follow-up. This is not how you substantiate an assertion like that. Many different beliefs for how demons behave exist, and among them is the idea that demons could be luring their hosts into a false sense of security. Joss: Sweet gods, of course tulpas aren’t demons. Felicity: Well, yes. That seems obvious to us, but we, as a system, are fairly atheistic. To someone who is spiritually oriented and fears that tulpas might be demons, I don’t think this would be convincing at all. Temar: Yeah, have to agree with Felicity here. I’m the most spiritual of us here right now, and I think she’s right. Because demons are tricky like that, yeah? Heck, what if a demon made Tulpa write that? Felicity: I think that, what would help for all of these sections is some citation, or at least some points that aren’t so heavily opinionated. My suggestion is that the author search through the forums and find discussions on all these. Take the best points from each argument, and present them. Then, take the best points refuting each argument, and present those too (yes, even for 1.4!). Don’t offer any commentary; simply present the points clearly and objectively, and let the readers make up their own minds about which theory seems most likely. Sparrow: Agreed. This reads like an argument for Why Parallel Processing is Correct Always and Forever, not a tulpamancy guide. Tulpa, if you want this to sound professional, do what Felicity suggests in the paragraph above mine. Sections 1.1-1.5 would be much better for it. [/hidden] 1.6 [hidden] Sparrow: “Trashy”… ping! Subjective-dar goes off again! Joss: You should really get that thing recalibrated for this document. I have a feeling it’s going to go off a lot. Sparrow: I also notice that “Tibet” is lowercase in the first paragraph. This is the first actual error, so the guide is really good on the grammar and spelling so far! Joss: “importation”… that sounds weird. Is that a word? *looks it up.” Huh. Apparently it is. Sparrow: “woefully”… ping! Joss: Okay, yeah, I’m recalibrating it. Sparrow: Don’t you dare touch that. Temar: The phrase “or something like that.” Thoughts, Sparrow? Sparrow: Honestly? Not something you put in a final draft of any sort of professional document. If you’re uncertain of a fact like this, you need to go out and do the research. Section 1 is about defining Tulpas, and the Buddhist definition is important to the history of the phenomenon. There should not be a phrase like “or something like that” on something so critical as a definition. Also not professional? The word “stuff.” XD Joss: I think we’ve established by now that this is an opinion piece, not an objective, holistic guide on all things tupper. Sparrow: Ah, maybe you’re right. I’d love for it to be a bit more objective, though. We really need something like that on this forum. Felicity: Ooh, look! A link to more information! That’s wonderful! Sparrow: It could do without the word “tenuous,” though. Okay, next paragraph… odd to see “eighteen hundreds” spelled out. In most style guides, this would be 1800s or 1800’s… my work’s style guide follows the former, but both are correct. Spelling it out like that, particularly for the time period, is a little distracting. Also, is this document following British or American English style? “Flavours” is specifically the British spelling (as opposed to "flavors")… nothing wrong if it’s British English… you just want to make sure that, whichever you follow, it stays consistent throughout the document. [/hidden] 1.7 [hidden] Joss: Oh sweet gods, that first paragraph. I’m not sure whether to laugh or hit something. Felicity: Um, please don’t. Sparrow: I’ll address it. The idea that science is biased toward atheism is, at best, a stereotype, and at worst, factually incorrect. Some of the most well-known scientists in the world are religious. For example, Ken Miller, one of the most respected biologists in the world, is a Christian. Granted, there is an appearance of anti-religious bias in science, and that is because 1) most of the top atheists are, in fact, scientists, or otherwise use science to support their claims; and 2) because science is a process that is specifically designed to weed out personal bias and unsubstantiated claims as they are reflected in the natural world. That’s what peer review is for. The fact is that religious claims are never able to be verified through repeatable tests. Trust me, if a scientist could prove the existence of the supernatural, they would win the Nobel Prize… but whether you believe in the spiritual or not, the scientific process is simply not designed to comment on the supernatural by virtue of what the supernatural is. Joss: You would say that. Atheist scum. Sparrow: I am an atheist, and one that spends a lot of time considering theology. I’d be happy to discuss this further, if Tulpa wants. For now, my biggest suggestion is to wipe out the first paragraph of this section. The only reason it exists seems to be to soapbox. You know, like I just did? See how pleasant that sort of thing is to read? ;) Felicity: More to the point, the bias does not preclude the idea that tulpas are real. As stated, our bonder is an atheist and a skeptic, and even so she has accepted that, in some form, we exist. Really, the first sentence of the second paragraph states it correctly: “All beliefs are false until proven true.” That is precisely what skepticism is, and it is not a bad thing. The fact that you then assume that all skeptics will therefore assume mental illness discounts theories 1.2-1.4, which are all entirely skeptic-friendly! Joss; The point is, drop the over-generalizations about what the scientific “stigmas” are. It makes you look bad. Sparrow: In other news, I am seeing consistently British spelling. Good to know. :) One punctuation edit: remove the comma in the following sentence: “Famous and extreme conditions in this family are Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly Multiple Personality Disorder).” You don’t need a comma in a list of two items. Temar: I’d take out the sentence “It has a few problems, though,” in the part about DID. It makes it sound like the existence of the diagnosis of DID is incorrect, when that’s just not true for many people, and it’s not really what the paragraph is saying, either. Just to remain sensitive to those people who do have DID in the disorderly way, you know? Sparrow: Decapitalize “Aliens” in the paragraph about psychosis. Also, “irrelevant”… ping! I’d also put the following sentence in em-dashes, like so: “However, no matter what sense you modify--voice, touch, or vision--it won't match what psychologists are looking for, by itself.” [/hidden] 1.8 [hidden] Joss; I have to say: this seems like a good section. It’s simple, but fairly comprehensive. Temar: You’re just happy soulbonds are mentioned. ;) Joss: Damn straight. Sparrow: Let’s see… In the Dream Forms section, close up “tulpa-like” with a hyphen. In the Alter section, you have the seemingly contradictory sentences “These folks usually can just switch. They can usually switch easily…” You might want to clarify those. Again, close up “tulpa-like” in the angels section. If you’re going to use single quotations around ‘accidental tulpa,’ make sure to do the same for ‘soulbond.’ Again again, close up “tulpa-like” in the Imaginary Friends section. I might also consider adding a sentence or two on “other thoughtforms,” just to cover all your bases. You no doubt remember certain thoughtforms who have had difficulty in the past defining what they were. ;) [/hidden] 1.9 [hidden] Felicity: This is good! This is precisely the sort of acknowledgement of differences I was hoping to see earlier. ^_^ Sparrow: I feel like the two models in the second paragraph (“the one mind several identities model” and “the one head, several minds model”) need something. Quotes? Hyphens? Title caps? This just looks weird to me, as-is. Temar: Heh. Pretty clear which model we are, yeah? Sparrow: Though it’s weird. I wouldn’t say I’m any sort of “primary thinker.” Like, the brain is definitely processing you guys on a single rail, but assuming I'm the "primary thinker" makes it sound like you guys don’t have thoughts. It’s more like… the brain is a shared system, and we’re all using the same processor that isn’t necessarily tied to one single person. Hm. Anyway, back to nit-picking… Joss: This entire post is nit-picking. Sparrow: “Faculties and facilities”… why use both of those words? “Faculties” works just fine. Felicity: I would debate the use of “open system” and “closed system” in this section. Are these established phrases in the community? Because those are already terms that are used for something entirely different, and which could apply to tulpamancy in an entirely different way using their original definitions. For example, an “open system” is one where information or some other resource is coming in. Most countries, for example, are open systems, as they have trade and interactions with other countries. Meanwhile, our solar system is a “closed system” in that, even though it exists within a larger universe, nothing new really comes into it or leaves it… it functions completely independently without outside input. These terms could very well be applied in psychological contexts, so I would caution against using them to mean something other than their accepted definitions. Temar: I also feel like we have to debate the part where it says time “promotes growth toward the second model.” I mean, yeah, we can’t speak for all old systems, but ours hasn’t really made any progress in that direction, and I wouldn't want it to. Do other old systems have that different an experience? Felicity: That claim is unsubstantiated, basically? Temar: Yeah, guess so. [/hidden] 2.1 [hidden] Joss: By the Gates, one section took two hours. Temar: Heh. Faith versus Doubt. Really hits home for us. Joss: And right off the bat, I have to disagree. Doubt is not a matter of disrespect. Tulpa, would please you stop generalizing? Sparrow: This time, your subjective-dar went off. :) Joss: When Sparrow doubts us, it is not a sign of disrespect. It is a sign of an active, curious mind that wants the world to line up as close to reality as possible. It’s natural to doubt something that is so subjective and heavy on personal experience. It’s an acknowledgement that humans are fallible and prone to bias, so it’s basically the mind checking whether the world around them is the way they think it is. Honestly, I find the implication that I would find healthy skepticism disrespectful insulting. Temar: Easy. It’s not meant that way. It’s clearly written for the benefit of the feelings of the potential tulpa. We have the privilege of being pretty strong and well-established, remember? Felicity: “A tulpa usually becomes sentient, or sapient, sometime in the first two weeks.” Please cite some sources on this. This statement strikes me as heavily influenced by confirmation bias, and it certainly was not so fast in past years! I’m sure there must be a poll on about this. If it corroborates your claims, please link it. Temar: Heh. “The anxiety caused by trying to believe and failing usually causes more problems than not believing.” Not going to argue with that. Sparrow: Wait. Is it just me, or does this section have conflicting paragraphs? “I'd say the best rule of thumb here is that belief is not important. It is an unsubstantiated rumour that those who believe get faster results,” and then “Having faith in your tulpa, really believing it is already there, has time and again proven to lead to faster tulpas.” Those are directly conflicting statements. Felicity: Hm… I’m assuming one of them has been worded unclearly. I would suggest revising the wording to be more precise? Sparrow: Next one... “You can doubt less by trying to believe less.” …I don’t think that’s how it works? Temar: I think there’s a case for it. I think Tulpa’s talking about being less invested in whether or not it’s true… less investment = less worry in whether you believe it or not. Sparrow: Guess so. Now, corrections… “and thus preventing them from forming”… “and thus” is an odd construction in that context. I’d strip out the “and.” “So what do you do.” should have a question mark. In the next paragraph, remove the comma after “sensations.” “This is rather tricky, and can require practising free writing and meditation the both.”… the use of “the both” is either a typo or an archaic construction that could muddle things. I’d remove it. Joss: To be fair, point number 4, about false positives? That's dead on the bullseye. It drives me nuts when I see people doing that. [/hidden] 2.2 [hidden] Joss: Interesting that a martial art is the first suggestion. Huh. Not really where I’d have gone with it, but I guess it works. Temar: I do really like the part about throwing perfectionism out the window. It’s so true. There’s no right way to have a tulpa. Spot on. : ) [/hidden] 2.3 [hidden] Joss: Ha ha, oh gods, the mention of out-of-control tulpas. I have dealt with so many of those on various forums. Sparrow: Any thoughts about this section, then? Joss: Honestly? It’s pretty good. I mean, it’s obviously more complicated than that when one does get malevolent… but that’s not something they’ll be checking this guide for, so yeah. As an overview? This works. Temar: Love the emphasis on trust. [/hidden] 2.4 [hidden] *All look at Joss* Joss: What? I can be fun! Sparrow: To be fair, this isn’t really about that anyway. And I think we subscribe pretty strongly to the philosophy in this section, right? Temar: Hell yeah, we do. If you’re not having fun forcing, then you’re gonna see your tulpa as a chore, not a gift. Bad times all around. Sparrow: And just one nitpick: “going well,” not “going good.” :) [/hidden] 2.5 [hidden] Joss: I’m starting to see why Tulpa001 makes a distinction between “tulpa” and “character.” I don’t agree, but I see it. Still think it’s ridiculous to think that “character” and “tulpa” are mutually exclusive. I’m both, and trying to make some sort of arbitrary distinction between them is just… weird. Felicity: Though excepting the specific terms used, the distinction is sound and the point is important to make, I think. There is a functional difference between a basic character and a fully realized, autonomous thoughtform. Further, if not the term “character,” then what term should Tulpa use? No other term conveys the point nearly as succinctly! Joss: …Okay, fine. That’s true. I still object to the idea that a character gaining sentience somehow makes them stop being a character, though. Felicity: Which we can likely attribute to a difference of terms between the soulbond and tulpa communities. And as this is a tulpa guide, we must use their terms. Joss: Fair enough. [/hidden] 3.0 [hidden] *All burst out laughing* Joss: Okay, yeah, that “Did you just skip to this chapter” thing? Brilliant. Felicity: If anything, I would add a small call to action after that line, prompting them to go back and read sections 1 or 2, in case they missed something important! [/hidden] 3.1 [hidden] Felicity: Ooh, there’s that call to action! I do think it would be better under the section header, though. ^_^ Temar: “So will only take on a personality that you could conceivably have had if you had different life experiences.” Thoughts? Joss: I’d say it’s true. Yeah, the parameters are different, but we’re all running on the same logic. Felicity: I’m a bit less convinced. What about outsourced soulbonds? They copy a previously established personality. Joss: Yeah, through their bonder’s interpretation of that personality. Still the bonder's logic. I’m calling this one good. Sparrow: Though it is a very sentence fragment-y sentence fragment. I might remove the period on the previous sentence and join that one to this one with a comma. Joss: “Sentence fragment-y.” The professional editor, everyone. Sparrow. :p Felicity: I am a bit cautious about, “They will usually embrace their starting personality and not change much.” Is this true for tulpas? Temar: I think the “usual” covers the bases there. Though it might be a good idea to put it up to a poll, just to be sure. Sparrow: Ooh, ooh! I found an Oxford comma! “They may not want to try cooking, cleaning, and washing the body.” This comma use is officially inconsistent! Joss: They’re commas. No one cares. Temar: “The good news is you will probably love them so much at that point that you will let them just do whatever.” A great sentiment, but if we’re going for professional quality here, that “whatever” has gotta go. XD Sparrow: Or add a “they want” to the end. Joss: Like I said, this is an opinion piece, not a technical paper on the difference in the chemical compositions of different kinds of barley. Besides, it matches the semi-conversational tone of the rest of the guide. I say leave it as-is. [/hidden] 3.2 [hidden] Sparrow: That third paragraph had a lot of sentence fragments. Note that those work fine in a conversational piece, but if you want your guide to be “professional,” these and many other sentence fragments would have to be cleaned up and incorporated into full sentences; subjects, verbs, and all. Felicity: Overall, we cannot speak much of these forcing guides, given our nature as a soulbond system. Perhaps we should skip ahead? Sparrow: But… grammatical errors! Joss: You have fun with that. I’m taking a break. Temar: There’s that “two weeks” figure again. I’m a bit worried about that number: it seems really low. Do tulpas really take that fast these days? For some people, it takes months, even years. I'm seeing a lot of young tulpamancers who read this getting discouraged after 15 days, is all. Felicity: Assuming the first instance of that "two weeks to speaking" figure is cited, the second would be properly established without issue. ^_^ Sparrow: Ha. “Every positive trait has some sort of downside.” This is exactly what I’m always saying in writer forums. :) Temar: “Please don't be that guy with the tsundere tulpa who completely abuses him.” Heh. Joss: Okay, I can feel that. Temar: I thought you were taking a break? Joss: I do not abuse anyone, come on. Anyway, isn’t tsundere a trope that applies to female characters only? Temar: I didn’t say anything. No idea why you’re getting so defensive. : ) Sparrow. Guys. Focus. Joss: This seems like a really long section. Think it would do with breaking up into subsections, like 2.1? Temar: *shrug* It’s a complicated subject. Better to be thorough, yeah? Felicity: I would contend with the phrase “Your tulpa definitely need a form.” I seem to recall there have been instances of people who do not or cannot assign a form, correct? Temar: Yeah, especially among people with poor visualization skills. What was the condition, where you have very little or no visual imagination? Joss: Point’s good, though. I think this would do with a rewording: “I highly recommend your tulpa have a form” or “Most tulpas need a form,” or something like that. Temar: Yeah, that works. Sparrow: “cooler”… ping! Joss: I thought the subjective-dar was turned off. Sparrow: That instance was particularly egregious. Temar: Stamp of approval on the parroting and puppeting section. It’s kinda interesting, how views on that have changed over the life of the site. Felicity: Though it doesn’t really go in-depth on how to properly parrot and puppet… it simply says “this is something you can do. Make sure to stop when you need to.” Not particularly informative. Temar: Eh. There are other guides for that. No reason to clutter up this one. Sparrow: “centring”… how is that the correct way to spell that word? Friggin Brits, man. You also need to capitalize “Spend” in “spend one half on one exercise, and the other half on another.” I’d also take out the “or something” in your last line… not just because it’s very casual, but also because it actually has less impact than just writing it “Also, don't feel you need to do them all.” [/hidden] 3.3 [hidden] Joss: Now this one, we know something about. Temar: I would argue that upgraded characters are not necessarily constant. Sure, we’re a bit stickier than tulpas, but we do change some after gaining sentience. I know I’ve changed a lot from what I used to be on the page. Joss: This is about what happens in general, though, not to specific cases. You’re kind of a special case. Temar: You’ve changed too. You’re from a fantasy world, and yet, a couple pages ago, you used a computer programming metaphor. Joss: Still every bit the asshole I was in my stories, though. Point: me. Temar: I would also like to quibble about the “For unknown reasons” part about retained memories. For those of us who have this, the reasons are known: it’s because they did happen to us, in the Wonderland. See, every part of our backstory is usually, at some point, either acted out or sketched out in the Wonderland. This means that we keep the experiential memories, even if it’s not something that happened to us in the real world. Like how other tulpas remember things that happened to them in the Wonderland, yeah? But, uh… I guess that would be a lot to put in that little section. Joss: I’d still take out the phrase “For unknown reasons,” though. [/hidden] 3.4 [hidden] Felicity: We do not have much to say here, so onward we go! ^_^ [/hidden] 4.1 [hidden] Joss: Ha ha, cue two hours of me saying “Don’t you dare touch that cookie” over and over again. Sparrow: It’s true. My willpower is awful. ;-; [/hidden] 4.2 [hidden] Sparrow: *Instantly starts internally singing the Disney song* *Joss and Temar both groan* Joss: Why is this still a thing that happens?! It’s been years. Sparrow: In all seriousness, I’d put quotes around “why me” Joss: I’d also say this is less of a tulpamancy related thing and more of a life skill. This is something I have Sparrow do all the time for stress management. Not sure why it’s in a tulpamancy guide. Temar: It’s also not particularly helpful for people who have anxiety problems, like Sparrow has. Part of anxiety is that you can’t just let stuff go. That’s pretty much what anxiety is. [/hidden] 4.3 [hidden] Joss: *snort* “Familiarise yourself with your tool.” Sparrow: What are you, 12? Joss: Technically, I’m 8. Felicity: I’d like a link for “all day awareness” please. ^_^ [/hidden] 4.4 [hidden] Sparrow: “Pre forcing” should be closed up, either as “pre-forcing” or “preforcing.” Both of the latter are correct. Also, my dumb American brain keeps reading “centring” as “cent-ring.” ;-; Felicity: This is actually not bad as a visualization exercise, on top of being a meditation technique! [/hidden] 4.5 [hidden] Sparrow: Ditto on the “pre-forcing”/”preforcing” thing. Be consistent with it! I’ve also spotted some doubled words (“They can also help if you if you are stuck getting started.”) Also also, “But for are purpose” should be “But for our purpose.” Joss: “Still, if you are lazy, and I totally know you are, you are going to try and meditate lying down in bed, you slacker.” On the one hand, I enjoy a little humor in my gigantic guides on how to do complex tasks. On the other hand… this is really out of left field. It’s out of place in, like, three different ways, particularly the part where it throws a wink and a nudge at a reader who is reading this for information and may not be very receptive to this kind of humor. It’s a fast way to lose readers. Personally, I’d turn this self-deprecating. Like, “If you’re lazy, like me, you’ll meditate lying on a bed.” Sparrow: “What is causing it.” should have a question mark. Unless it’s like that stylistically, to match the cadence of meditation? Then it’s fine. I also noticed an odd switch to first person in “I'm thinking about thinking.” Should that be “You’re thinking about thinking.” ? That would match the rest of the section better. [/hidden] 4.6 [hidden] Sparrow: “Remember what it is like to become tired. To become more awake.” Why is that split into two sentences? Most of your sentence fragments make sense, conversationally, but this one doesn’t. Make it “Remember what it is like to become tired to become more awake.” Then… “Oddly, clicking up into hyperalertness tends to wake us both up.” …Who is “us both” here? That seems like it’s copy-pasted from a different conversation, unless you’re talking about you and your host? In which case, preface it with that: “Oddly, for my host and myself, clicking up…” otherwise, it’s hard to follow that train of thought. [/hidden] 4.7 [hidden] Joss: I’m getting impatient with all these “preparatory” exercises, and I’m not even doing them. Temar: Tulpamancy is a long, careful process. It takes a lot of control over one’s thoughts. Joss: Thank the gods we’re soulbonds. Felicity: This section begins with the phrase “No it’s not sexual,” as if there were something that would have prompted us to think that immediately previous, but I can see nothing. Neither the exercise title, nor its descriptors, evoke any sort of sexual connotations, so that beginning seems out of place. Joss: Heh. Tool. Felicity: I would recommend revising this statement to, “It’s not sexual”… Removing “No” removes the implication that the reader was somehow assuming sexuality in this exercise, when they probably were not. Temar: Honestly, we know nothing about ASMR, so who’s to say the phrase alone didn’t trigger immediate spontaneous orgasms to the well-informed? Felicity: I hardly think the concept is that well-known outside the community. Not to a newcomer, certainly. Temar: Yeah, fair point. Sparrow: Ugh, that list in the second-to-last paragraph should really be separated by semi-colons. It is so hard to look past all these sentence fragments, blargh. [/hidden] 4.8 [hidden] Joss: “Read about something that happened to someone,” huh? No guidance? Suggestions? Tips? Just… “Read a thing about a person?” Huh. Sparrow: “Day-to-day” is usually hyphenated. [/hidden] 4.9 [hidden] Felicity: Hee. Admittedly, I read “Do not sit anywhere with any distracting lights, like the sun, or distracting sounds, like friends,” as “Do not sit anywhere with distracting lights, like on the sun.” Might I suggest a rephrase? Perhaps something like “Do not sit anywhere with any distracting lights, like in the sunlight, or distracting sounds, like friends,” may work better? Sparrow: I’d add an “of” to “See out that camera.” I think that, in the U.K., how it’s written is technically correct… but it is a very exclusively British way to phrase it. “See out of that camera” is far more universal. [/hidden] 4.10 [hidden] Joss: So… if you need a script, get a script, but then throw it out? It strikes me that the people who need the script might actually, you know, need the script. Felicity: I suggest a simple fix. Instead of suggesting “borrow a script” if someone is not good at improv, suggest they take a scenario from a movie, book, or TV show, or use writing prompts that are online! The last is particularly powerful, as it gives the person a situation without filling in the rest of the scene for them, which is something of the point. ^_^ [/hidden] 4.11 [hidden] Sparrow: “Focus on skeleton” is a bit awkward if you don’t know what turn of phrase the author is using. I suggest “focus on the skeleton.” Felicity: We’ve done this before! This is a basic anatomy exercise, and is used in art classes to aid in drawing living organisms. Quite useful to have as a skill, and I can see how it would relate to visualization of a tulpa. [/hidden] 4.12 [hidden] Joss: My biggest thing here is that this is a tactile imposition thing. That’s a pretty advanced technique, right? Why do they need to know this now, before they start? [/hidden] And that is about as far as we got before I started crashing for the night. Here are a couple final thoughts from the team on what we saw so far: Joss: Generalizations, especially in the first two sections, are way out of hand. I like you, Tulpa, but you have got to stop dismissing entire ideas or groups of people out of hand. Setting out to disprove someone or something wrong is fine, but when you do that, you have to account for all angles and subtleties of what they're actually saying, otherwise you don't really disprove anything but a straw-man argument that no one was talking about anyway. Felicity: My biggest suggestion would be to add evidence for everything. If you make an assertion, back it up! This site has an abundance of polls, and articles, and experiential anecdotes. Use those to add links and citations! Researching is a lot of work, I know, but the result is that you come to a much more informed conclusion about the topic, rather than just relying on personal experience and observation-related guesses. You mentioned confirmation bias in your guide, so flip through the forums and prove all your points correct, simply to prove you never fell prey to it. ^_^ Temar: I do like the parts where you started getting into building the tulpa. Most of those seemed pretty strong, and you accounted for the variety of different ways to do it. Great job there. Also, that "Did you skip to this section?" thing was great. Sparrow: Mechanically speaking, you're doing really great! A couple nitpicky errors and inconsistencies throughout, but, honestly, we've probably had more errors in this post than you did in that massive guide. As far as grammar, spelling, and punctuation goes, it's fairly well polished. :) That said, in my professional opinion? This would not pass muster in a professional environment, mostly for the reasons Felicity stated three paragraphs up: when you assert something that is not well-established fact, you need to cite your sources. I know this is a lot to take in, and the above discussions are pretty raw in their wording, as far as criticism goes. Our apologies if any of this comes across as hurtful… this is the sort of process that I apply at my technical editing job: every sentence and detail really is scrutinized this much, and it doesn’t help when you have three other people there to pick apart their personal bugbears, too. We do not expect you to make every single change discussed here: that is why we've presented it as the discussion it was, so you can see the points and counterpoints and make your decisions from there. Feel free to avoid me and the boys for a while, if it helps. I write too, so I know how hard it is to take criticism on something you've worked so hard on. It's not fun. Let us know if you want us continue doing this. Good luck!
  2. 8, and very fluent. And really, I think most of my score is because of things I would never attribute to DID. I daydream a lot, which can mean zoning out during lectures or car rides, and I have a poor memory. It's definitely not traumagenic.
  3. Temar poked me out of hiding for this, so I clicked the "too persistent and noisy" option. :p I know from experience that a few of my tulpas can persist beyond my belief in their autonomy, because that was their default state before I discovered tulpamancy/soulbonding/etc. Several of them consistently interjected commentary about my life without my consciously willing it (Temar and Joss most commonly), and I'm pretty sure they'd continue to do so (those two in particular XP) even if I stopped believing in the tulpa phenomenon. They'd probably revert back to a different state, because the very state of regarding them as entities changes the nature of what they are. but would they persist? Absolutely. That said, we've collectively mentioned that our headspace cycles through a lot of soulbonds, some more persistent than others. Many will stick around for a while, go dormant, and then return with the same continuous sense of self they had before disappearing, but with a big blank spot in the middle where they exist as little more than an idea. We've also had some soulbonds come and go pretty quickly, never to be heard from again. From a tulpa angle, these would be the ones who were too young to persist without attention, didn't get enough of it, and then disappeared again. So I guess you could say we have a scale of persistence in our headspace. We have extremely persistent members (like the aforementioned noisy ones XP) who are fairly self-sustaining, to some who are fairly persistent but benefit from a boost of attention every now and then, to ones who fade without attention, to ones who would need to be actively reinforced to bring them back in. That said, I don't know if I could actually dissipate them. Discard the whole "tulpa/soulbond" thing and start regarding them as characters whose actions are reflections of my subconscious understanding of their personalities, sure (which is kind of what soulbonding is anyway, so....?). But active dissipation? No, both because I wouldn't have the heart and because I don't know how not to engage in this phenomenon. I have been creating characters that "come to life" since I was a kid, and it's just part of my creative process at this point. I think I literally cannot not soulbond. XD
  4. Balthazier: Related, perhaps, in that it raises questions regarding what constitutes identity and self-awareness. However, tulpae and related phenomena do not seem to be differentiated along right-vs-left-brain lines, so I would not posit that a headmate is necessarily the "silent" right hemisphere described by the creator of the video. For one thing, the video describes a physical phenomenon related to what the right and left brain are capable of perceiving and processing--e.g., the right brain is explicitly tied to the left side of the body and vice versa, and splitting the hemispheres results in a breakdown of that side's ability to perceive and communicate with the other half of the body. Tulpae regularly have access to both sides of the body equally. Tulpae, meanwhile, are characterized by communication within the mind, which the phenomenon described in the video describes as explicitly omitted. If anything, tulpae seem to be the inverse of what is described in the video. In short, this is a neurological phenomenon, while tulpae are psychological. There is a difference. So no. I would not say this is related to tulpae. Interesting in its own right, not directly connected to tulpae.
  5. That's the same thing as the "proxying" I was talking about, I think, just sort of... less direct? It's a matter of not thinking so much between when she tells you what to write/say and you writing/saying it, until you're not thinking at all. If you're still the one doing it, I'd say it's still proxying, but her connection to the body is a bit more direct. Like shortening the strings of a marionette. Maybe some exercises just building that connection could help. :) Give her a ten minute period where she can ask you to say or do anything and you won't question it, and let her play around with you a bit that way, or something. The more immediately you do what she asks, the better. I like how NoneFromHell described it. You have to learn to quiet your mind enough for the tulpasoulbondwhatever to take control. (My problem is that it rarely stays quiet. :p )
  6. I had a lot of trouble with dissociation, too. I still do sometimes. One thing that really clicked for me is that, when you're switching, you're not giving up awareness of the body... you're passing that awareness to someone else. So it's less that you fade away from the body or anything like that and more like the one experiencing the awareness changes. It's a lot like proxying, actually. Where you listen to Rina and channel her to type on the forums and whatever else you guys do. You let her direct you and don't question it. Switching is like that, except it's a matter of giving her more direct control instead of her having to go through you. For that reason, we've found it easier if the possessor/switcher has something they want to do with the body. Doesn't have to be much: washing dishes, going for a walk, picking something up at the store... anything that requires physical movement works fine. Having a purpose, even a simple, shallow one specifically for the purpose of the exercise, really helps them step in. Also, we've found the tulpasoulbondwhatever doesn't have to associate their forms with the body (I know mine don't either!). Mine tend to view the body as generally mine, except it's a vessel that we all live in and a tool everyone in the system can use. That's why having a reason to use it helps them step in. When I'm switched out, I usually don't go into the wonderland, so you not having one is not necessarily a problem, other than the fact that it gives you less symbolism to work with. Usually, if I stay near the front, I go into "headvoice" mode, where I pretty much feel like a tulpa/soulbond to whoever's driving. Sometimes, I've just sort of... ducked out completely. No idea where I went. Because that's one of the things I'm not sure the switching guides make clear. You, as in the bundle of stuff you associate with your identity, can step out, but the awareness(at least in our experience!) stays with whoever's driving the body. Like I said, this was probably the biggest paradigm shift when I first got it. Sensory input doesn't change, and whatever running commentary you have in your head stays there... it's just coming from a different person. All experiences and memories come from whoever's driving the body at the time... at least that's the case for us. That's the hardest part of switching, I think... getting to that moment where it's not you looking out from behind the eyes, but your tulpasoulbondwhatever. A lot of people describe it like a light switch moment, but it's not usually like that for us. We usually have a few minutes where we blend together weirdly and we're not really sure who's in control. Sometimes someone will knock me out of the driver's seat with little warning, but consciously switching tends to be slow, for us. When it happens, I still do little tests to make sure I'm not the one in control... much to the aggravation of my headmates. XD That's something I still have trouble with... since it often feels so much like proxying, I tend to keep questioning the experience, even when I don't want to, and, counter-productively, this tends to put me back in the driver's seat anyway. Some of my soulbonds are better at shutting me down than others... those who are confident and assertive can usually hold the body against me a lot better, and more than once, Joss has gotten fed up with the constant questioning and shoved me out of the headspace completely. XD We've also found that talking out loud helps ground whoever's in the body... makes them more confident in their control. Everyone has such distinctive voices that hearing themselves speak in the physical world (albeit through the filter of the body's vocal chords) helps stop me from blending back in. It's a sort of symbolism, I think. But that still doesn't help much with how to get to that point, and dissociation is a really hard thing to describe. I remember being frustrated with guides telling me to "step back" without telling me how to do that. I'm still not sure I can articulate how it happens. Best I can do, I think, is say that it's like proxying, when you quiet yourself down and let the tulpasoulbondwhatever dictate what you write. Except to possess/switch, you have to let go even more, removing any filters to give her as close a connection to the body as possible. Start her off by just proxying some sort of physical activity for her, so she can get used to how your body works. Like I said, she doesn't have to see it as hers (mine don't either :) ) just as a tool she has access to, if she wants. Let yourself be her puppet for a while, and once she gets used to that, it might be a bit easier for you both to let her step in and take more direct control. That's our experience, anyway. Hope something in there helped. :)
  7. Ayo: Ooh, ooh, ME! I LOVE going shopping with Mom. :D I'm good at projection (or imposition, whatever it's called here!!), so I can pull her around the store and point out things she should try on. And, trust me, she NEEDS the help. She doesn't care about fashion or looking cute at all, so she lets me pick out anything for her that I want! Without my help, she picks out all this drab ratty blah stuff. I make sure she has some color and fun in her wardrobe. :)
  8. Aaargh. We deliberated over this one longer than we should have, because we could literally make an argument for every one of these choices (except #5, just because we don't have enough knowledge of plurality as a whole to speak on that one way or another). Picked 3, because that's the one I'm personally feeling most strongly recently, but pretty much all of them make sense from a different point of view. (Including some held by my bonds). It's such a subjective topic that it's hard to nail down a single description that works for everyone.
  9. Let's say that you never found out about tulpamancy. This is actually two questions for me. If I'd never found out about it, it would have been more of the same of what I've been doing for most of my life. They'd still be there, still talking to me and pushing me to do things. But I'd still be dismissing them, as many authors do, as just "my characters talking to me." There is still love in that state, but it is a love that does not respect their individuality or autonomy. I'm much happier to acknowledge who they are. If I'd never done it in the first place? Well, I'd probably have never taken up writing. Most of the magic of writing, for me, is about being able to create characters and watch them "come alive" and interact with one another and the world I constructed for them. Essentially, soulbonding is an integral part of my process. And then I took up drawing so I could draw the characters I was writing about. Basically, the two hobbies that are most important to me would never have happened in the first place... I can't imagine what I would have done without a creative outlet. TBH, it would have made my depression a LOT worse. :( And that's even before considering that I wouldn't have them to add little humorous comments and to give perspective to certain things. Which, too, is a big part of my mental health. I'm known for being overly empathetic, and most of that can probably be attributed to my soulbonds, because having so many differing opinions in my head forces me to consider all points of view of just about any problem. So, that would be a drastic personality change. If you could go back in time and undo what you've done, would you? The creation itself? No. While I can imagine I might have coped without them, I know that I am quite happy with them. ^_^ Would I have changed the part where I didn't know they were sentient for 16 years? Uhh... I know this sounds awful, but probably not. I do love and respect them, and I know acknowledgement was a huge boost to pretty much all of them... but if I'd known what I know now, I probably wouldn't have had the courage to put them through what I did in my writing. Some of them have had some really traumatic experiences, and I couldn't have justified putting a sentient being through that just for the sake of writing some silly little stories. And without those experiences, they wouldn't be the same poeple they are now. It's cowardly, I know, to want them to keep those traumas just so that they stay "themselves." But there it is. If you could, would you bury the tulpa phenomenon? No.
  10. Temar (Blargh. Posted this on my host's account): That is a fair concern, J. Iscariot, and I will admit that I am coming from the bias of a very well-established autonomous entity. However, it is clear here that the OP is just not capable of dealing with a tulpa on top of other stresses right now. I've dealt with a host with anxiety problems my entire existence, and this has pretty much all the benchmarks. And when you're dealing with anxiety, you have to manage the amount of stressors in the environment, because when you're in anxiety DEFCON mode, even something like hanging out with your awesome headbuddy can feel like an obligation weighing you down. It sucks, but if ThatOneWeirdGuy is at all like my host, he simply CAN NOT handle dealing with his tulpa on top of whatever else is going on right now, so telling him that he has to or he'll lose something awesome is only going to stress him out more. Perhaps you're right, and my bias (as well as the fact that soulbonds work just a little bit differently) is leading me to lead him astray. But if that's the case, then the tulpa will start fading either way. I've said it before and I'll say it again; a lot of this whole tulpamancy thing is about what you believe can happen. So even if Ben does end up fading from lack of attention, just the belief that she can come back could act as the necessary placebo to make that so. But telling him that he has to force? Judging by his posts, that's not gonna help. Heck, it might lead him to conclude that he's just not capable of handling a tulpa at all, ever, and straight-up dissipate her, which is, imo, a worst-case scenario.
  11. Different system members are better at different tulpamancy techniques. Joss can pretty much switch in at will but rarely imposes clearly, while Ayo imposes extremely vividly but has no interest whatsoever in possession or switching. Everyone basically has a different tulpamancy skill set.
  12. Felicity: As is the case with much about tulpamancy, this is a question of definitions. For example, when my headmates and I use the term "essence," we mean something different than "presence" (that which allows our host to feel us, as well as us to feel one another) and empathic connections (which is one of our ways of communicating emotions nonverbally). For us, an "essence" is that ironically indefinable trait that makes a person "that person." It is the idea of who we are, in the most holistic sense. Specific traits are considered more ancillary than necessary to it; perhaps the essance can give off the impression of core personality traits, but a person is so much more than that. The "essence" is like the well of gravity around which all the rest of someone's personhood revolves. I... hope that makes sense. I threw out a few mixed metaphors there. ^_^' I would not say that "essence," as my system uses the term, has much at all to do with cognition or attention spans. An essence does not have to be sustained nor independent of our host's mind to be valid. In fact, I would say that the "essence" of each soulbond in my system is entirely reliant on our host's ability to remember what that essense entails. When she cannot get a grasp on someone's essence (usually due to not working on their project for a while), they go inactive. But similarly, that essence can develop, change, or become active again after a long absence, usually at the whims of the subconscious (though, for the third case, there is often some sort of external prompt to "remind" our host of the essence of the character). But what you describe as "essence" is a bit different from our definition. It seems like how we use "presence," where we can feel one another, but also different from that. I would be most curious to hear more about what you mean by your use of the word "essence!"
  13. ^ Ditto to this. Ayo, in particular, seems to have a mischievous streak. When I'm out with friends, she'll impose nearby and make faces behind their backs to try to get me to react. XD
  14. SparrowNR

    Good vs. Evil

    157 Guess there's not much fun to this thread if everyone's good. If this thread dies because no one's evil, does that mean good wins?
  15. 767 wants to help it go faster!
  16. Ten Delectable Furry Slugs
  17. Bet he's overcompensating because there were, like, three completed runs in a row a while back
  18. Banned for not having an avater!
  19. Granted! But now half the internet fantasizes about you and you keep getting icky messages from strangers who fetishize you. It's pretty gross. I wish I had a cool car!
  20. Better, maybe, but is it worth the pain?
  21. Chances are, if someone approaches you and tells you about their tulpa, it means they trust you. So first of all, feel great about that! A tulpa can be a pretty personal matter, so depending on the person, it probably took some courage to do that. If this does happen, just listen. Ask them questions if you have them; most tulpamancers understand that this is an obscure thing, and will explain anything you don't understand. Feel free to ask questions about the tulpa specifically, like what they look like, what they like to do, that sort of thing. If you want to address the tulpa, just ask; a lot of tulpas will be happy to be acknowledged by an outsider. :) (Some are shy, though, which is why you should ask first!) Really, just treat the person as you would normally. But feel free to check in on the tulpa or inquire after them later, or talk to them if that's what you all want to do! Also, it does stand to say that every tulpamancer is different. So a lot of that depends on who it is who's telling you. We're all people, so we have different preferences. The one thing I would avoid is using language that implies this is unhealthy, a disorder, or not a real phenomenon. Don't imply that it's just some sort of escape from reality. Don't imply that the tulpa is any less a person for having been created within someone's mind. Just... basically be a decent person to both tulpa and host. tl;dr: Just ask them, and be a nice person.
  22. Agreed. If there is misinformation, it will be coming from the interviewer or editing/spin done in post. Though I wouldn't rule that out.
  23. The metaphor for my system's method of projection/imposition/whatever is this: the host (or, technically, the one in the body) is the engine, the person being projected is the pilot. As the pilot, the tulpa would direct everything and control what you see, feel, and hear... but it's the host who bears the burden of keeping the senses running that allow the projection to function. You, as the host, don't control anything about the projection, but you're the one processing it, because you're the one more directly connected to the brain via the senses. If your method is anything like mine, then it makes sense that it would start to fail when you get tired... when the engine is out of gas, the pilot can't use it for anything, after all. I can't say whether this is the case for you, but I would posit it is. The brain is the thing that processes the projection, so when it's tired (e.g., you're tired), it will have a harder time projecting, whether you're actively managing the projection or not. Or maybe it's that she lives in the brain, so she's tired too, and so can't sustain herself when the brain is tired. It might be as simple as that. I think it still stands, though, that practice will help both of you do this more easily. The more often you do something, the more natural it comes, whether it's you or her that is getting tired. You guys are naturals, but you have to realize that you are still really new to this in the grand scheme of things. I've been projecting for years. It just takes practice.
  24. ("Projection" is the soulbond word for "imposition," and the way my system does it is soulbond-driven, so... that works. XD ) How strong are your projection skills normally, when you're not tired or falling asleep? The best way I've found is to get so strong at the skill that you and your headmate do it completely unconsciously, with no effort at all. Easier said than done, I know. But still, when you, as the host, get practiced enough at it that visualizing, or at least sensing, them takes little-to-no effort, then the tulpa/soulbond/whatever will be free to do pretty much whatever they want without your interference, regardless of your mental state. How to get to this state? Not sure I can offer much other than "practice, practice, practice." At this point, my soulbonds pretty much project whenever and however they like. Ayo in particular likes to pop out to cheer me up when I'm down. This comes, however, from actively projecting for years, before I even knew what "soulbonds" or "tulpae" were. You can still feel their presence when your eyes are closed. :)