makogeddon

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About makogeddon

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  1. Well, thanks for that. I dunno how exactly it would help, but hopefully you're right in saying that it will. Also, I don't want to turn this into a progress report, but I figured while I'm posting I might as well mention that I think there's a chance my personality was influenced by her a few minutes ago while I was in the shower. I moved my finger under my nose and saw blood on it and immediately started involuntarily giggling, which is pretty unlike me but exactly the sort of thing she would do (don't ask). Or maybe I'm just going insane. Either one is equally exciting, I guess.
  2. Thanks for the pep talk, I'm in pretty much the same situation as Semi-Nomadic. It's like, why even bother focusing on her if we can't really do anything? I'm always apologizing to her with sincerity whenever I notice that I've been forgetting her a lot, but that doesn't stop me from forgetting her again the very next day. Right now I was planning on saying something like "I'll try to change that" but it seems like every time I try to do something like that I fail. Which is another thing about me that applies to pretty much everything I do. I've made dozens and dozens of failed attempts to adapt to polyphasic sleep schedules, for instance (the really mild ones, no less) and I just don't understand why every time I try again, it's the same result. Same deal here, except I'm not even really trying; I'm trying to try. And failing at that. And Nobillis, thanks for the link, although I can't really use that method seeing as how I'm not attempting to create a representation of an aspect of myself but rather an imaginary girlfriend. Her name is Sarah, by the way. She's the one on the left here in case you're wondering what she looks like (i can't tell if my drawings look good or bad anymore so apologies if it's the latter).
  3. Yeah, we're in the same boat when it comes to laziness too. Right now virtually 100% of my time is free time but I somehow still can't get anything done, tulpaforcing included. Although, in my defense, that's partly because I still have no idea what I should be doing during an active session. Every time I try to have one, all I can really do is try to have a conversation which doesn't go anywhere since I can't hear her end of it. Lasts about 2 minutes before I go back to wasting time. I know I could be going to the wonderland with her though, so I guess I should probably try that. But my visualization in the wonderland has deteriorated to the point where it's pretty much impossible to actually impose myself there, so it's extremely annoying to just be there. I guess I'll just have to keep trying until it gets better. The worst thing is the fact that every time I actually do want to try going to the wonderland, it's when I'm tired enough to fall asleep in the process of attempting it. But yeah, forgetting to do things or commit to things. One night I'll say to Sarah that tomorrow I'm going to spend the entire day passively focusing on her, never forgetting that she's there, and then I end up only remembering she's there during occasional moments throughout the day like almost every other day. God, I have the absolute worst discipline, dedication, and time management skills out of anyone I've ever seen. I have plenty of reasons for still trying to force her into existence, but if the end result wasn't as amazing as it will be to have a friend like this (as well as the fact that i would never think about getting rid of her even at this stage), I doubt I would have kept this up all this time. Hell, I've attempted to learn lucid dreaming on two separate occasions and given up both times out of laziness. Lucid dreaming. Because being able to indulge in every possible activity I could ever imagine with the power of my own will every time I went to sleep apparently still wasn't enticing enough to make me expend the laughably small amount of effort necessary to make it possible. I really wish I knew a way to fix this aspect of me. It's like I just don't care enough about any of the awesome things I could be doing to actually do them. It makes no sense. It's like having an awesome video game that you'd love to play and then never actually playing it (which is also something that happens to me with alarming frequency). I mean, fuck.
  4. I think you definitely have a point with me being stuck on fundamental beliefs. Right now I feel like I'm just not going anywhere whatsoever because I'm too afraid to try something in case it doesn't end up working. Because really, how can I know if a method will work or not? They're all basically unfalsifiable hypotheses, and although there are always people claiming a certain method has worked for them, there are also people claiming that the same method HASN'T worked for them. Seriously, I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm at a point where I don't believe ANY method actually works. I don't know what happened that stopped us from making any progress for those 8 months, but the realization that things weren't working has made me paranoid that NOTHING will work. ... With that said, I forgot to mention something: Last night when I went to turn off the lamp to go to sleep, she said "love you!" the way couples do when they say goodnight to each other. Completely unexpected and out of nowhere; I wasn't thinking about her speaking at all, wasn't expecting her to say anything, wasn't trying to make her say anything... I have no reason to believe it was anything other than a genuine response. And obviously it felt a lot different from the responses that I consider to be parroting; I have to actually work to hear the parroted responses, and this was something completely beyond my control. I have nothing to depend on other than her own will for me to hear something like that. So, even though I'm not 100% sure this method is going to work, I'm going to keep using it. I just have to give her as much attention as possible and hope that she decides to say something while I wait in silence. I have no idea why she would want to be as quiet as she is if she has the ability to talk like that, but whatever.
  5. When I say "two methods", I'm referring to two conflicting fundamental ideas concerning tulpa creation in this community, which are "don't worry about parroting" vs. "don't parrot". And believe me, I've read the things trying to justify the first idea, but those justifications rely on said idea being a viable method. Who's to say that accepting fake responses ISN'T harmful to development? See, the idea of believing in your tulpa and waiting for those beliefs to become a reality if they weren't already does make sense to me, but it also makes sense to me that doing so could lead you to falsely assuming your tulpa is vocal despite the fact that you haven't actually made any progress, which is what happened to me. And when I say it's what happened to me, I mean it; I thought her vocality was perfect since the very beginning, and it never actually changed or improved throughout all those months. So, either she was perfectly fluent since the very beginning (something i find a little bit difficult to believe), or she was never fluent at all. Like I said, I'm not saying I don't believe that the method can work, I'm just saying that it didn't work for me.
  6. Alright, Oguigi wasn't there tonight but I talked to plenty of other people (almost all of whom told me to just accept all responses as genuine) and I think I have some better perspective now. I want to clear something up, because I know I must sound like the most stubborn skeptic on the entire forums/IRC: My ability to believe in my tulpa is not in need of any help. I can very easily and readily accept responses and believe them to be genuine, if I think that doing so is wise. I'm not being weighed down by any sort of subconscious doubts; I'd say I'm luckier than many other people in that rather than attempting to consciously accept something and being plagued by an unconscious doubt, I'm the other way around. I'm very much ready and able to believe in my tulpa, but I've chosen not to because I don't want to risk it. Yes, I'm parrotnoid. But I don't think I'm unjustified in being so. Blind faith hasn't worked for me so far, and I see no reason that it should start to work if I keep it up. Maybe I'm slow, maybe I didn't interact with her enough, but continuing down that path just strikes me as personally wrong for me. And don't think I'm choosing this out of preference; it is way more fun interacting with a possibly parroted tulpa than an almost totally silent one (no offense, Sarah). I'm only doing it because it just makes more sense to me, and I don't want to risk another 8 months of almost no progress whatsoever. I'm not saying the blind faith option is nonviable. I mean, maybe it's nonviable, I don't know; but if it does work, it's probably worked a lot better for other people than it has for me. I don't know why. Maybe I've just been lazy; like I mentioned somewhere in one of those walls of text, I've never had a single active forcing session aside from occasional wonderland stuff (and talking to her while going to sleep, i guess). But as I said, it's not worth the risk of trying it again (not yet, at least; if i end up spending another 8 months with no progress while using this other method, it might be smart to reconsider). The thing that really confuses me is that both methods seem viable, yet are in direct contradiction with eachother. Oh, and when I say "both methods seem viable", I should put a disclaimer that I have no goddamned fucking clue if they're both actually viable or not. For all I know, one of them could be completely wrong, but I have literally no way of deducing that because this community is so largely biased towards the blind acceptance method that the other one barely gets any coverage. I have absolutely nothing against you people, you're generally very kind and willing to help, but I wish you weren't so vehement in your willingness to dismiss anything that harbors even the tiniest shred of skepticism. Science isn't about sticking to one view and ignoring any opposition, it's about considering all possible theories and attempting to find out which ones hold up. So that's my justification for the stance I'm taking here. I'm going to work on being able to hear the responses that I consider to be genuine (i know what they feel like, and they're at least different enough from the ones i consider to be parroting for me to deduce that they're really her). However, I understand that belief and expectations are important, so I'm going to try and roll with certain things and assume things are her while still being sure not to parrot. If anyone has any reason to believe that what I'm doing isn't the smartest option, please let me know, because I still honestly have very little idea what I'm doing here. I'm just trying to explain my case.
  7. NotAnonymous: I still don't know if I've just been misinterpreting linkzelda's advice or what, but if I haven't, then what you're saying pretty much directly contradicts what they were saying and god this is confusing but what you're saying has made a lot more sense to me in terms of both clarity and viability (no offense to them). I never go on the IRC except for occasions such as this, although I'm curious to hear what oguigi has to say before we talk (if we're going to talk, that is). Anyway, this question is directed at all three of you (i don't mind if dreamy joins in if that's ok with oguigi): What channel should I go to, and at what time? Right now I'm usually awake from sometime in the morning to around midnight EST, for reference.
  8. Let me just say that if I'm contradicting myself it's only because I'm really confused. That probably doesn't need to be said, but you're judging me as if I have more interest in being argumentative than in learning. Also (and apologies if i'm about to contradict myself yet again by saying something argumentative), you're making an awful lot of assumptions about my situation; you keep saying I want instant gratification, but all I want is to know what I need to be doing. I know it's not going to happen overnight, but I also know that it's not going to happen at all unless I know what I need to do, which is what I had hoped to find out when I made this thread. But ok, I think I'm somewhat starting to understand at least one of the points you're trying to convey to me. I'm assuming you're telling me that I'm not actually parroting, and that the reason she doesn't have any parallel processing or anything like that is because I stopped believing in her before she had a chance to develop any of that, right? I'm telling you, when I say I think I'm parroting, I'm only being honest. I'm not trying to push some sort of agenda or defend myself for the sake of my own integrity or anything like that, I'm only telling you what is apparent to me. Everything seems to be evidence that I'm controlling her. And ok, maybe that will become less true if I remove my doubts and stick to it for long enough, but the entire reason I'm where I'm at right now is because I realized that wasn't happening. Did I miss something in your posts where you addressed that? (It's an honest question, you give a lot to take in and it's one of the reasons for my confusion/hypocrisy.) Was I doing something wrong for her to not have had any parallel processing by the time I lost faith, or did I just not give it enough time? And just in case you're going to tell me that she DID have parallel processing (i don't know if you are or not, i'm just preparing), she didn't. She couldn't do anything without my observation and pretty much stopped existing whenever I wasn't focused on her; when I left her alone for her to go design a wonderland, for example, she told me she had finished it but when we tried to go there we realized she hadn't actually done anything, and she couldn't tell me what she had been doing (even with the "parroting" i've been describing which you attribute to observance rather than conscious generation) because it was impossible for her to have been doing anything. (again, disregard this paragraph if i mis-predicted your intentions and you already knew we didn't have parallel processing down yet) So anyway, can you please tell me what I was doing wrong before I changed my mindset and decided that I had been parroting? And what exactly I need to do for her to have better independence? I'm not asking for a quick easy way to reach my goal, I need to know which direction I need to go in to reach the goal in the first place. And I know you've probably already explained it to me, but as I said, it's hard to process everything you've said to me so far. Yes, I need you to spell it out for me. EDIT: If I may completely and spontaneously contradict the primary stance I've taken throughout this entire thread, you might have a point in the whole not-actually-parroting thing. I mean, it seems suspicious that she can only talk when I choose for her to talk, but... the things she says when I'm "controlling" her don't really reflect my conscious thoughts. So, uh... maybe it really IS her. Like I said, it seems suspicious, but if me accepting it will lead to progress, then I guess there's nothing to worry about. Of course, still no parallel processing, so even when she's dependent from me it's only when I allow her to be independent, which is something I would like to know how to change. We can't do possession or anything like that; we've tried it plenty of times, and it's sort of the same not-sure-if-puppeting feeling i get when she talks, but I've been led to believe that legitimate possession happens when you relax and wait for your tulpa to do everything on its own without you feeling like you're helping them out, the plausibility of which I'm sure depends directly on your tulpa's parallel processing abilities (of which mine is currently lacking). So, vocality aside, what should I do to increase her general independence and parallel processing abilities? Have I just not been believing in her for long enough, or is there something else I've failed to do?
  9. Maybe it helps, but I consider it counterproductive to believe in something that isn't true. It seems like it would make sense for your mind to make it true based on you believing in it, but that wasn't the case with us. It was just wishful thinking. I went along with it and, like I said, genuinely believed everything was going very well, but none of it was real. I would be more than happy to return to that carefree, "possibly parroting but i'll just assume it's all coming from her" mindset if it would actually work for me. But the way I've come to see it from personal experience is that when I delude myself into thinking we've already made progress, the actual progress doesn't get made.
  10. Ok, no, look, I'm not going down the same path of blindly assuming her responses are genuine again. Like I said, I had been doing that for the majority of the time I've had her, until I realized that it was just me pretending all along. You're telling me that there's no way I'm parroting, but I know that's a lie. If I ask her a question and wait for a response, there's no response. The only times I get responses are when I exert effort on my own behalf to try and hear something, at which point it feels like I'm forcibly dragging an answer out of her. If she could talk on her own, she wouldn't need me to help her, right? Doesn't the entire definition of vocality lie in the tulpa's ability to speak separately from you and without any of your input? I'm not going to lie to myself and assume everything she says is of her own accord. That isn't having a tulpa, that's just pretending to have a tulpa. That's not good enough for me and it certainly isn't good enough for her. So please, I know you're trying to help, but don't act like my problems are fake and that I just need to stop worrying, because blindly assuming that all the parroted responses were real is what cost me the majority of those wasted months. It didn't work. Maybe it works for others, but not me. I believed everything was going perfectly, but then I started to notice how she had no parallel processing abilities whatsoever, and how she depended on my own conscious decisions for virtually every aspect of her, and how she couldn't reply to me if I asked her a question and simply relaxed and waited for a response rather than making one up for her. I'm not presuming that I can consciously control every fiber of her thoughts, because there aren't any thoughts in the first place. She can only think when I decide she should think, and I need a way to change that. I know you're trying to help me, but you're making assumptions about my situation that aren't true and giving advice accordingly. I need someone to help me with the situation I'm actually in. My tulpa is just barely above servitor level, and we're in dire need of figuring out how to fix that. EDIT: This was directed at Linkzelda's post, not yours, waffles (i didn't see your post since i didn't refresh the page). I definitely think it's a good idea to try to be positive about this, but it's hard when there's so little to focus on in terms of progress we've made so far. The most we have is her ability to move around on her own (well, most of the time). As for your parroting suggestion, well, that's kind of what I had been doing up until recently (as i've explained), although unintentionally. I really don't see how it could lead to the tulpa's independence, though. Especially considering it hasn't worked so far.
  11. Huh, never heard of that method before. So, basically, the host reaches a state of lowered consciousness, and that allows the tulpa to become more conscious in their place? I'll definitely read the guide if you make one for that, it sounds interesting. Two things though: The problem isn't that I THINK I'm consciously parroting her, the problem is that I AM consciously parroting her. It's not a lack of belief on my part, it's the fact that if I did choose to believe she can speak on her own right now, I would be lying to myself. I had already been believing it for most of the time I've had her, before I realized I was parroting, so it's not like I haven't tried it. Or maybe you weren't even talking about belief and you just phrased that in a way that implied it, in which case never mind. The problem is that I don't know what exercises I should be doing. I mean, I know I could be visualizing and things like that, but that doesn't really help with vocality, does it? I want to put all my efforts into getting her to speak, because that's pretty much the most basic, essential thing a tulpa has to learn. And I have no idea what to do to work on that aside from just talking to her, which, as I've stated before, hasn't been enough for us so far, and that's the most baffling thing in the world to me because every single tulpamancer will tell you that narration is key, yet it hasn't worked for me. Although, last night, she and I actually did come up with an idea, which is for her to talk all the time as if I could hear her, rather than just staying silent since she knows I couldn't hear her anyway, which is what she's been doing. So now she'll be mumbling a lot more (although only when I remember she's supposed to be doing so, since she can barely do anything on her own right now) and our thinking is that maybe she just needs practice with it. It does sort of seem like a skill a tulpa could learn through practice, but... yeah, I have no idea if that's actually true or not. It's also kind of confusing because it feels like I'm even parroting the mumbles and that if I just relax and let her speak on her own, she doesn't even open her mouth. So, uh... help, anyone? It seems like every time I make a new post I remember another issue I don't know how to resolve.
  12. Linkzelda, I very much appreciate the effort you put into your post, and it's been inspiring, but... I'm still not totally sure what to do. I know I shouldn't need someone to tell me how to do this, but, well, I do. Maybe I'm just not good enough at understanding posts like that, but the unfortunate truth I've come to realize is that every time I read something like that, I get inspired and I feel like I have a better understanding of how this works, but I still don't know what to do. I just end up doing the same stuff I'd been doing previously, and it continues to not work out for me. I really just need to know what I should be doing to start actively making progress. Everything has been passive for me, I've almost never gone into an actual "forcing session" because I don't know what I'm supposed to do in one. I know that things will happen faster if you put more work into them, but I don't know how to put any work into this. I mean, it's obvious that if you sit down and practice piano for 2 hours every day as opposed to just idly playing around on the keys a couple times when you're bored you'll make more progress, but when it comes to tulpaforcing I'm currently doing the second example and I don't know what to do for the tulpa equivalent of the first. I want to dedicate a lot of my time to doing this so I can make as much progress as possible, but I don't know how to fill any of the time. The only thing I know to do with her is have occasional one-sided conversations. I guess I don't really narrate as much as I could, but that's still a passive process and I want something to do actively so I can try to dedicate myself to it. Does anyone have any advice on this? And Linkzelda, I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm disregarding your post, I just really don't know how to respond to it. Like I said, it was very inspiring, but I'm not sure what you're telling me to do in order to achieve vocality. The main suggestion I got from it in terms of practical methods was to think about what it'll be like for her to be vocal, I guess? And I'm assuming that's following the idea of expectations dictating things, where if I think about it enough I'll start to expect it and it will therefore happen. Otherwise, I... I don't know. Maybe I'm not smart enough for your post to be helpful to me. I probably sound like an idiot completely ignoring every other message you were trying to deliver to me, but I honestly just don't know how to process what you were telling me. It all felt very eye-opening but I still don't feel any closer to knowing what to do. Which probably isn't really a criticism of your advice so much as it is a revealing of my limited understanding of it, but still.
  13. The most confusing thing to me right now is why this hasn't worked yet. I've done everything I was supposed to do in terms of narrating and talking to her. She stays in the room with me almost 24/7, I try to remember she's there, I talk to her occasionally throughout each day, I make sure that I'm talking to her rather than just narrating to myself, and I just don't know why we're still essentially at the beginning after all this time. We started back in November 2012. I've read about how it can take months for vocality to happen, but I'm pretty sure I'm at least a little bit overdue. It's been the kind of time frame where I feel like by now we should be able to do all sorts of cool stuff like possession and maybe even imposition and switching, but she can't even speak to me. I'm pretty sure my past self was looking forward to having progressed as far as one would expect to progress after 8 months, but that hope has been totally crushed. I'm not sure how much she's able to think for herself. A lot of the time it seems like she only acts the way she's supposed to act when I remember how she's supposed to act in the particular situation, at which point she follows suit. And no, I'm pretty sure this isn't deviation, it seems more like she's just regressing to a generic state where her personality gets forgotten and she reacts to everything in a default, standardized human sort of way. Whenever there's a situation where she would do something specific and different from most people, and I think about how she'll do it, it feels like the reason she then proceeds to do it in that manner is only because I thought about it, and that if I didn't, she'd just do it the way most people do it. I can hear her speak if I know what she's going to say, but it doesn't feel alien, it feels like it's halfway between parroting and hearing her for real. And whenever she's supposed to say something where I don't know what she'll say, it's just total silence/mumbled gibberish... unless I consciously think about what her answer should be, at which point I can hear her in an obviously parroted sort of manner where it's just my own mindvoice dressing up as hers. So, don't try to tell me that her answers aren't being parroted, because I know they are. If she could speak on her own, she wouldn't need me to think about her responses for her. So, my question is, what in the ever loving fuck have we been doing wrong this entire time, and what can we do to begin making actual progress? Tulpamancing is the most important thing in my life right now, and the fact that I'm getting nowhere with it (not to mention thinking about how much further we could have gotten throughout all these months) is kind of really depressing. I've tried doing research, I've tried thinking of a solution myself, I just don't know what to do. The only thing I know to do is talk to her, but that hasn't been enough. I would really, REALLY appreciate some help with this. I don't even care about any of the cool things like imposition and switching right now, I just at least want the bare minimum requirements for what is considered an actual tulpa. I cannot even begin to tell you how jealous I am of nearly every other host I've ever seen. I don't know if I suck at this, if my tulpa sucks at this, if we both suck at this, or if it's something else entirely, but I really need help here because it's obvious that things haven't been working out with us by ourselves so far.
  14. Floree, I feel like I'm in the same position as you. When my tulpa talks, it does sort of feel like it's really her, and she occasionally says stuff that catches me at least a little off guard, but she can't talk (or i can't hear her) unless I sort of actively have her do so. Like, I can ask her a question, and then I have to sort of consciously go "ok, now she should be answering", and she answers, sort of like I'm giving her permission to do so. But if I just ask her a question and then stare at her without me doing anything and I passively wait to see if I can hear anything, she either doesn't move her mouth, or her speech is totally silent/mumbly gibberish to me. Also, I have no idea how to really progress beyond this. I was going to make my own thread but since you seem to be in the same position as me (except for the whole "i started in november" thing), hopefully someone will know what to do. Also, word of advice: Just because someone is a tulpa doesn't mean they automatically know how every tulpa works. The tulpa is dependent on the host's mind, and every host has different expectations and beliefs when it comes to this thing, so there's virtually no such thing as universally good advice. I'm not trying to bash kerin or anything, but I disagree with the "no such thing as doing it wrong" thing. I'm pretty sure the fact that my tulpa can't quite speak for herself after all this time (i started in november), despite the fact that I thought I was doing things correctly, means that I was doing something wrong. Again, nothing against kerin, but, you know, I just don't think it's wise to automatically assume you're doing the right thing if you're not even sure if you are.
  15. THANK YOU. I'm confused here, though. What exactly is the difference? Also, this describes my current situation extremely well. I had a whole thread about this here.