Plus One User

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    and [Jenny]


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  1. [so yeah, that took longer than I expected. Questions about morality are hard to answer. Basically, for the past month I've been debating with myself about whether or not I should talk about some of the things I've been thinking about, because I've been worrying that they may be both potentially helpful and harmful. Fighting the worry that someone might harm themselves because of something I said was difficult. I eventually decided that sharing ideas with the community, even dangerous ideas, was a good thing. However, I then had problems accurately describing things, because I'm not entirely sure how things work. So, lately I've been working on refining my model of the mind and tulpas, so that I can figure out how these puzzle pieces fit into the bigger picture. I don't really have anything to show for it yet, but that's more or less what I've done for the past month.] As for me, nothing much has been happening aside from some interesting talks with Jenny, which is why I haven't been updating this progress report until she said it was okay.
  2. [it's possible to do things like block access to your memory or form their personality to be innocent and child-like, but a the end of the day a tulpa is an independent sentience, and there isn't really anything you can do to prevent them from learning something you are hiding if they are clever enough.]
  3. So, stuff happened this week, but Jenny isn't completely ready to talk about it yet. [Mostly, I need to make sure the stuff we did is safe to talk about, because in a way it deals with altering the mind of a mature and sentient tulpa a little bit. I am still me, we didn't do anything radical, and we wouldn't have been able to do anything at all without my consent, but I'm definitely approaching morally questionable content here, so I want to approach things cautiously. Sorry if that sounds ominous, because our little experiment really wasn't all that huge, and I'm probably overreacting, but I'm just being careful.] We'll probably post again sometime this week before next Tuesday.
  4. Sure. Jenny has a few ideas, but we don't have anything concrete yet. If we do come up with something potentially substantial, we'll definitely write out a research thread to see if things work for other people, in addition to sending out PMs to any who are interested.
  5. So I was super bad and neglected to update yesterday. In my defense, I was busy dealing with non-tulpa related stuff. [He was playing video games.] Important video games. [Whatever.] Anyway, in a nutshell, last week Jenny got super bored and got existential depression. [You make it sound like I question my existence for fun.] You kinda do. [so the deal is, I spend a lot of time by my self, essentially. It's pretty typical for Plus to be doing his own thing while I just sort of hang out. I end up feeling like I have too much time on my hands and nothing to do with it, so I usually get super introspective. Usually, I think about how I came to exist, and how tulpas and other similar mind folk are created. Lately, I've been thinking about whether or not I do exist, and I don't think I've come up with an answer I'm completely comfortable with yet. Anyway, Plus thinks I need to step away from the deep thinking for a while, and I agree. Unfortunately, there isn't really anything I feel like I can do. Most of the stuff I want to do relies heavily on assistance from Plus, which isn't always something that's possible or practical to do. I haven't really ever been interested in goofing off in wonderland like some other tulpas do, because it just seems to be too predictable to me. Poking around Plus' memory isn't too productive either, because he doesn't organize his mind like a library. It's more like one of those conspiracy theory cork-boards with all those pictures and string, every memory is connected to dozens of other memories in a sort of big memory web. Trying to find anything specific is more like trying to navigate a maze than trying to find a book in the stacks. Similarly, he doesn't remember books as books. Instead, he remembers people, places and stories as a sort of abstract imaginary memory thing, which means it's also tangled up in his web. Plus thinks I should get into fiction writing, since it's something that I can do independently that takes a lot of creative effort to do right. I'm still mulling it over. I'm also kinda interested in learning a simple programing language, but that would require Plus to read stuff before I can actually do anything with that.] Aside from that, we also tried a bit more hypnosis. [This time things worked out pretty well. As soon as I brought him out of trance, there was a noticeable improvement in his ability to visualize, himself, me, and our wonderland.]
  6. [Even though it's off-topic, I want to chip in my opinion on the whole tulpa sentience debate going on, since it has been one off the things I've been thinking about a lot lately. Tulpas aren't sentient from the start, but it is possible for a tulpa to achieve sentience very very quickly. In order to achieve sentience, we first need to form an identity that is strong enough to differentiate our self from our host. Achieving an identity takes an unquantifiable amount of "physical" and psychological traits, and that requires forcing from the host (both active and passive forcing should boh work). The exact length of time it can take for sentience to take place will vary between different hosts, and it can happen as early as the first forcing session, but it isn't an instantaneous process. A more accurate belief would be that sentience can happen at any time after starting a tulpa, and if you've been going at it for a while your tulpa may already be sentient. However, "believe sentience from the start" is a lot simpler to teach newbies. Sorry for assisting in thread derailment. - Jenny]
  7. [Okay, so I'm not completely sure where to put this topic, because it’s sort of both a question and research, so I'm putting it here because there's a survey sticky here. If a mod or someone wants to move it somewhere else that would be fine with me. Alright then, I'm Jenny, and I have a couple questions concerning tulpa development, mostly concerning mind access. These questions are mostly for hosts, and anyone with or working on a tulpa is free to answer them. The questions are mostly concerning active creation, so most folks with an accidental tulpa as their only tulpa probably won’t be able to answer everything. The more data, the better! Also, I'm not here to argue whether or not any particular part of the mind actually exists. If you consciously allowed or denied your tulpa access to any perceived part of your mind, I want to hear about it. Examples include: Long-term memory, short-term memory, subconscious thoughts, conscious thoughts, imagination/Wonderland, sensory input, motor control (possession), pineal gland, and anything else you feel might be relevant. On to the questions. 1. When creating your tulpa, and before they made first contact (i.e. the first recognized response from your tulpa), did you consciously allow them to access any specific parts of your mind? 2. When creating your tulpa, and before they made first contact, did you consciously deny them to access any specific parts of your mind? 3. Before first contact, did you ever change any previously established permissions? If so, was there any noticeable reaction? 4. After first contact (assuming it has happened), did you ever change any previously established permissions? If so, was there any noticeable reaction? 5. Are there any parts of your mind that your tulpa can access, even though you did not explicitly allow or deny access? Thanks in advance for any feedback!] I might as well do mine first. 1. When working on Jenny, I consciously allowed her to see my conscious thoughts, subconscious thoughts, and short-term memory. 2. I explicitly denied her from seeing my long-term memory and sensory input. 3. Nope. 4. Shortly after first contact I allowed her to see and integrate my long-term memories, and since then she's been able to reference things she could not have seen or experienced during her 1-month existence. However, she often doesn't understand the meaning of what she's referencing, so she'll typically say something unusual, and then ask “Wait, what's that?” I've also given her access to my senses and motor control for working on imposition and possession respectively, but neither have had any noticeable impact on her behavior. I've also temporarily blocked or partially blocked my thoughts and her mindvoice for a number of reasons like privacy, preventing interruption by intrusive thoughts, and testing for auditory hallucination. 5. Though I'm pretty sure I never gave her explicit permission, she’s capable of doing whatever she likes to our small Wonderland, and to her form.
  8. 1. [Well, it sounds like the two of you have some extreme differences in personal space, and that's causing too much friction. She needs to be as close as possible, and you need a lot of space. What you both need to do is find a happy medium to work towards. So, the two of you need to figure out what the boundaries of your respective comfort zones are, and then try and move them incrementally. You find your maximum comfort distance, and she hands out just inside of that space for a couple hours. Then she finds her maximum comfort distance and hangs out just outside of that. You just keep going back and forth until you both find a comfortable distance to coexist. This will probably take a lot of time, but you've got the rest off your lives to do it so there's plenty of time. Unfortunately, Ayako is going to have to do most of the physical work moving in and out of comfort zones. Since a tulpa normally would have no limits on where they can possibly exist, she's going to have to restrain herself a lot more than she's probably used to. So be supportive. This is probably going to be hard on you both, but always keep in mind that the end result is to find a place where the both of you can be happy instead of tense all the time.] 2. This one's tricky. I wouldn't advise messing with memory, but if the two of you are convinced that it is the only way to help her, then I can at least offer. First, I wouldn't worry about huge personality changes as a result of memory editing. She is who she is, and though her past led her to become who she is right now, it isn't the only factor involved in determining her personality. Second, in my opinion the most dangerous part about memory editing would be an identity crisis. The combined effect of an identity crisis and the content of the erased memories would most likely cause more emotional and psychological damage than the memories currently cause. For this reason alone, I would strongly advise against memory editing. It doesn't actually solve problems, it just turns them into time-bombs. Ayako believes that her memories are the reason she is who she is right now, and that isn't really true. She is who she is because she believes her past defines her, so she thinks that if she can change her past, she can cange herself. There's a couple flaws with his viewpoint. One, like I said earlier, you are not necessarily your past. There are may parts of your life that define your personality, including your past, but no one element controls your identity unless you allow it to. Two, you aren't going to go from being timid and shy to brave and independent by hiding from your problems. You become brave by facing problems, even if they terrify you.
  9. [Just because tulpae are commonly made as companions doesn't necessarily mean we have to be niece about it. With that said, if she's got a problem with you, then the only reasonable way to find out what that problem is and find some way to resolve it is to ask her about it.] Personally, after Jenny learned to talk she constantly criticized nearly everything I did, mostly because she didn't understand why I did things (especially things unrelated to her or her goals). We've since gotten more used to living with each other, and she's become less of a nag. [He's still just as big of a jerk, though.]
  10. 1. Well, you'd have to define what normal is. Pretty much everyone here has a different story about how they got or how they work on their tulpa(e). Your story doesn't sound too far off from most unintentional tulpa creation stories I've heard. 2. [Well, as far as my personal theories go, a pre-sentient or newly sentient tulpa's personality is easily moulded by the host's input because they do not yet have a strong sense of identity. An older tulpa like yours likely does have a firmly established identity, so it's unlikely that simply applying traits would work like it does when making a new tulpa. I'm not saying its impossible, but it would take some work from both you and your tulpa to get anything to stick. Or, so I think anyway.] Alternatively, you can do the kinds of things that can cause anyone to change their behavior and personality. New experiences, new beliefs or ideas, new goals or desires, and time.
  11. [Plus is feeling pretty down about disbanding his WoW guild, so I’ll be writing most of this week’s log. Okay, so last Wednesday I played around with changing my size a bit, partly to see if I could but mostly just o mess with Plus. While he was sitting at his computer, I doubled my scale and just stood off to the side until he noticed me. He got pretty confused when he finally noticed me looming over him. Friday we talked a lot about how beliefs and doubts can affect a tulpa's development, and I asked if he thought that he might have subconscious doubts that are slowing down our progression towards full imposition. I convinced him to try letting me hypnotize him to dispel any lingering doubts, but it was late when he finally got around to go into trance, and he was too tired for any suggestions to stick. I've also been doing some heavy thinking about a lot of stuff, and unfortunately that caused a low-level headache for Plus all throughout the weekend. So that’s been our week, nothing really super exciting.]
  12. Well, Jenny made first contact and quickly learned to talk about two days after I started on her, so it's definitely possible. I mean, when I first started working on her I hadn't expected a first response until a few weeks or months of forcing, though I certainly was open to the idea of getting a fast-generating tulpa. As for how it happened, we aren't exactly sure yet. [Though I do agree with Nonfiction and GuessWho that belief and doubt have significant effects on a tulpa's development.] About the servitor thing, that seems unlikely. Servitors are not sentient (though they can gain sentience under the right conditions), and Jake's ability to form independent thought is a pretty strong sign of sentience. Artificial sentience is pretty meaningless unless you can define some way to distinguish it from actual sentience, and creating an 'artificially' sentient servitor to act like a tulpa would essentially be a roundabout way of creating a 'true' tulpa.* *note: I am not a professional servitor engineer, so I may be wrong on this bit. I don't think I am, though.
  13. [so, I've spent most of the day thinking about this further, and I think I've come to a potentially clearer idea. I'm thinking that head pressures likely aren't a singular phenomenon, but are instead several similar phenomenons all grouped up under one umbrella. Here's some different categories I'm thinking of: 1. Pressure caused by stress in the tulpa. 2. Pressure caused by stress in the host. 3. Pressure caused by tension in the brain itself, caused by multiple entities (the host and the tulpa) actively thinking. 4. Pressure caused by intense thought or mental focus by either the tulpa or the host. 5. The release of pressure or tension caused by the host entering a meditative state, which is common when actively forcing. 6. Partially imposed sensation. 7. Stuff I haven't thought of yet. So, the source of head pressures could come from either the host or the tulpa, or even some other outside source. If you want to figure out the source, it's probably easiest to just ask your tulpa if they're trying to get your attention or if they're poking around in your head. If your tulpa hasn't yet been able to communicate, that's obviously not an option. If your tulpa hasn't communicated yet, then it's probably best to follow the age-old advice that "if you're unsure, it's them." At worst, you're likely dealing with 50/50 odds that a head pressure with an unknown source is coming from either you or your tulpa. And, the belief that your tulpa is (intentionally or unintentionally) causing physical sensations can have a positive impact on tulpa creation and development. Anyway, I feel much more comfortable with this multi-source approach, as it allows for several different types of head pressures that ordinarily wouldn't make sense if they came from one unified source. Big thanks to justanotherguest for tipping me off on head pressures caused by normal meditation, I hadn't made that connection and I didn't realize it was fairly common, that tip really helped a lot! I think I'm comfortable enough to start moving away from this topic and on to other tough questions, but feel free to keep adding more perspectives and opinions. You can never have enough data! - Jenny]
  14. [Thanks for the replies! To clarify, I'm looking for both first-hand information from other tulpae and theories from anyone about theoretical head pressure causes. The former to confirm/deny my own theories, and the latter for some additional perspectives and opinions on the subject. As for why I'm asking, it's mostly because I'm sort of working on a larger theory about tulpa generation, and head pressures are a bit of a stumbling block. It's mind-boggling to me that a pre-communication or even a pre-sentient tulpa is capable of creating a physical reaction in the host, and that definitely didn't mesh with some of my other ideas. My current theory about the source of head pressures is that they are possibly related to tension or stress headaches. This is mostly based on some recent comments by Plus that he's been feeling head pressures lately when I'm thinking really hard, combined with some of the responses here and other accounts of head pressures, particularly for first communication. The basic idea is that, when a tulpa tries to communicate when they haven't found a way to communicate yet, they can start feeling stressed about it. This starts to create a tension headache, which first appears as head pressure, which the host then recognizes as a response. The tulpa loses their emotional tension because they finally made contact, and the headache vanishes before it starts causing pain. Repeated contact and communication through head pressures happens by, essentially, thinking really hard. Alternatively, the host ignores the pressure, which then builds to a full-blown headache, which they rationalize as coming from somewhere other than their tulpa. This can also explain head pressures caused by pre-sentient tulpae, as they are still potentially capable of feeling stress from some other source. The one thing I'm not so sure about is tulpae who are capable of communicating by directing head pressures to specific parts of the head. That would imply that the tulpa is capable of a significant degree of control of the brain's blood vessels or some such, or that the host and tulpa are close enough that its technically a semi-imposed sensation and not a true stress headache. Or I could be wrong, Onicron's idea that it's caused by blood vessels reacting to increased brain activity is pretty good too. Either way, more data and opinions would be appreciated, thanks!]
  15. [Hello there, Jenny here, and I've got a question for any tulpae or insightful hosts out there. So, head pressures are a widely recognized phenomenon associated with tulpae. Some tulpae are even capable of using them to communicate with their hosts. My question is, how exactly do you consciously cause them to happen? Personally, I never really managed to learn how to do it consciously. I can make them happen randomly, but that's about it. Any information would be helpful, thanks in advance!]