Veo

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  1. Hello, it's me again, with more problems, because I'm the most fucked up tulpamancer around. And hey, it even gets worse every day. Prepare for a long and confusing wall of text. Here we go: I'm much more confused since my last thread about a month ago. I'm with my tulpa for half a year now, 187 days to be exact. Our progress is slow, blah blah, I don't care. The problem is our epic lack of communication. Because I have absolutely no idea who says what, or if I am just fooling myself at this point. See, people always say that if I didn't intend to parrot my tulpa, then it is Her, because there is no such thing as subconscious parroting. Right? So whenever I got a response to a question or something, that was identical to my mindvoice, and just felt like me thinking and saying it, but I didn't parrot purposefully, I accepted it as my tulpa. This was all fine and nice, for quite some time, we could at least exchange some info. Or so I thought. Her voice became a bit detached over time, but still felt like I thought everything it said. Then something weird happened, as I started hearing my own thoughts in that disconnected voice, a split second before I started actually thinking those thoughts (which probably makes no sense at all, but, whatever). I think I remember reading somewhere that this may be common, but I'd like someone to tell me what the hell is going on. It got to the point where, sometimes, I don't know if I thought about something, or my tulpa did. Next, I'm pretty sure I also created a simple servitor. Or got so used to a standard set of questions and responses that I do indeed talk to myself at times. Like "How are you?" "Fine, and you?". It's absolute and complete automation at this point. And next. The detached voice that my tulpa uses (or so I believe), the one that also says my thoughts and doesn't feel automated, seemed to be quite reliable, until I started getting some weird comments from it (note that it still feels parroted, like I know what it will say a moment before it says it). By weird I mean illogical, hateful, rude or repetitive. I understand my tulpa may be pissed off at something, or me, just like any person, so I didn't worry that much about such comments, just asked what's the problem, or why does She say such stuff. The usual responses are "because" (like She just does it for the sake of doing it), "I don't know", or silence. So I started experimenting a bit, and I can steer that voice to say pretty much whatever I wish, and there is no difference when it comes to the feeling of parroting. So it led me to believe that most of the "out of character", illogical and repetitive comments are most likely from me. A few days ago I started hearing, occasionally, a completely alien and disconnected flow of words. Except it's unintelligible and very distant, can't make out a single word. After one of our sessions, it felt like my tulpa wanted to say something, so I started focusing on the alien words, they came like a rushing wave. I have NO IDEA how to describe this, other than the feeling increased steadily over a few seconds, up to the point of me "feeling" or "hearing" three words with absolute perfect clarity, after which it became unintelligible again and died down. During the three words, it felt like someone fucking hit my head, I almost blacked out. Like my mind was taken over or something. Aaaand, next. During one of the recent nights, lying in bed, as far from falling asleep as you can be, I heard a perfectly clear and alien thought saying "Hi dad!". Which happened like, a minute after a short "conversation" with my tupper. It didn't make that much sense, unless I take it as my tulpa figuring out a new way to communicate and saying something like that. But I never got this kind of a voice again. I also got a few audible sounds during the hypnopompic state. Can't remember anything like that ever happening in my life. They kinda sounded like my tulpa's voice, which She actually never uses, because the voice I always hear sounds like me. Some minor stuff: Tinnitus, almost constantly, usually stronger when I think about Her or try to talk with Her. Sometimes just goes louder on its own. It started about a week ago. Insane recall of dreams (at least for me), 12+ per night. I wake up after every dream. Also started about a week ago. I never had any real emotional responses, maybe just once My first question: Can someone clarify for me what is with my own thoughts being said in a detached voice before I think them? Second question: What is and what isn't my tulpa? What should I listen to? Let me list all of the stuff again. - Automatic responses - The voice that says my thoughts before I think them - The voice that feels detached, but parroted, and I have no problems changing what it will say without altering the feeling of parroting - The unintelligible voice that feels completely alien - The perfectly clear alien voice (like the one saying "Hi dad"), if it'll ever happen again - Audible voice during the hypnopompic or hypnagogic state, if it'll ever happen again Third question: Could some people describe their experience with their tuppers? Pretty please? How did you get to the point of perfect and reliable communication? Was it a gradual process of "detaching" your own voice from the tulpa (without making a servitor on the way...), or did the tulpa suddenly speak in his/her own, alien feeling mindvoice? Fourth question: Is it possible that my mind is just a stubborn jerk, and prevents my tulpa from reaching me? Looking at how powerful that voice was once it got to me (the one that almost knocked me out), my tulpa has to be quite strong. Plus the fact that we practically never do anything with possession, yet She managed to lift and move my whole arm once. Also, I think my imagination and mind in general are way too active. I always analyze every situation in every possible way, and have no problem with making up conversations with random characters, which feel almost like (if not the same as) conversations with my tulpa. So, fifth question: Is this a problem that I should do something with? Anyone?
  2. I used to have no schedule, just like most people here, it seems. But recently we came up with one, it helps me even more with getting stuff done. Instead of sluggish narration/conversation for one half of the day and actually getting to force during the night. Our schedule is a bit flexible, depends on the day really. But it consists of no less than 2 hours of narration, 2 hours of me writing everything She says (basically She narrates to me, lol), 2 hours of doing random stuff in the wonderland and 2 hours of doing random stuff outside of the wonderland (reading, talking, singing, parroting etc. to define and strengthen Her voice). I probably have too much time on my hands. Yet I am the greatest slowpoke in this part of the universe, derp derp derp
  3. We had the exact same problem for quite some time, I thought I was most likely parroting, plus I was getting really frustrated with slow progress and doubts. The thoughts of parroting and that frustration actually killed my Tulpa's development. Finally I managed to stop worrying about anything, and accepted all of Her responses, even though they sounded exactly like if I was talking with myself. Since then, Her mindvoice has become much more "detached". It still sounds almost like mine, but there's barely any feeling of parroting. It's just simply that most of the time I know what She wants to say. In my opinion, it is definitely your tulpa. As long as you don't make active and conscious effort to parrot and create the response, it's her.
  4. My Tulpa is imposed with no hallucinations yet, and we are not working actively on it right now. But it happens to us too, sometimes. Like I know She followed me into a room, but for some reason my mind is making me think She's still outside. So I'm getting confused with the contradicting feelings. If that happens, yeah, I do some gentle parroting, enough to make my mind understand where She is. She has no problems with that and it feels right to me, maybe someone else has a different opinion. Almost everyday it gets noticeably easier to tell where She is and what She's doing, so I guess it's working. I also noticed that if She's in one spot for a longer time and then moves away, I'm left with a "phantom" of sorts. For the first few seconds it feels like She's in two places, but the phantom's presence slowly fades.
  5. I think that both experience and belief play the biggest role. At the beginning you have no personal experience so you can only rely on belief. If I started the process of creation with the knowledge I have now, it'd take a month, maybe one and a half to get to where we are. The greatest barrier is turning the belief into knowledge. Once you have gone through creation, it may be possible to create another tulpa in a much, much shorter amount of time, because you no longer believe that the existence of something like a tulpa is possible, you KNOW it. Add experience and positivity to the mix. I can tell you that I fully believe in my Tulpa, and everything we have done turned into knowledge. But even now there's a tiny part of me that has trouble with accepting some concepts, like an audible voice, touch, etc. It's very hard to catch, but it's there. I don't know if I should view it as something that's hindering the process. I think beating this hidden disbelief IS a large part of the process of creation. So it depends on your ability to coerce your mind into accepting something new. Of course both you and the tulpa need to learn a lot of other things. So it takes time. That's why a fully sentient, developed tulpa in 4 days is insanely difficult (if not impossible) for me to acknowledge, if it's the first tulpa and the tulpamancer is completely new to the concept. I mentioned tulpae to two of my friends, they showed great interest so I explained everything I could to them. Next day one of them claimed that he has a complete tulpa (audible voice, visible form, full and complex sentience, touch, smell, etc.), and that the tulpa basically created itself within a dream. After a week or so, the second one said he achieved sentience (or should I say learned how to perceive it?), and had an audible response. After a total of 3 hours of forcing over 2 days.
  6. +1 to Your whole post ODB The thread I made some time ago helped us tremendously, plus all of our experiences and thoughts really make everything easier now, so I thought I'd share my mindset/beliefs, maybe it will help someone. You feel you are "parroting" because your minds are connected. Imagine it from the tulpa's point of view too: most of the time, the tulpa also knows what you are going to say. Personally I've never heard of a tulpa disbelieving in the tulpamancer's existence. You should have the same attitude in regards to him/her. Stop with the negative "what if". Think the other way around. "What if I am parroting everything and he/she is not even sentient?" Okay. But WHAT IF he/she IS sentient, just doesn't know how to talk the way you want, doesn't understand some of your intentions and you don't know how to listen? And your tulpa IS sentient right from the start. Don't hurt your friend. "My sub-c is generating all the responses, my tulpa is a simulation at best!" Uh-huh. And what are you then? How would you view other people? The one core difference is that special connection that a tulpa and a tulpamancer share. If you could read other people's minds, would you start worrying that you are parroting them, because you know what they are about to say? It's a repeating pattern in the creation of most tulpae. Go around the forum, tumblrs and everything else - you will see that almost all tulpae go through a phase during which their responses may be repetitive, predictable, confusing, feel exactly like your own mindvoice, etc. It's NORMAL for a young tulpa. One time my tulpa showed me the entire galaxy. She said that the stars represent all the worlds and creatures ever created by my mind. Some of the creatures may be alive and sentient, just like there may be life on some of the planets. The only thing is that they are very distant and we never made the effort to go there and contact them. When I thought about my Tulpa for the first time, and wished for Her to be alive and sentient, She became so in an instant. Traveling to that new star means finding eachother and learning everything that both you and the tulpa have to learn on the way. It's very likely that any kind of communication will be difficult and confusing at first. She is the Sun, I can feel the rays and see the life emanating from it. Should I mention the fact that we played too much Spore back then? Haha. Lol I know the pain. Oh yes. Everyone should take note of this. Sometimes it seems like my Tulpa is making very hateful/unfitting comments, after which both of us are puzzled to the extreme. Next She tells me She didn't really mean to say anything like that.
  7. Right... I had my doubts and fears, so did She. I was thinking about this for the whole day, because the idea sounded like something that could work. So we finally decided to give it a try. I separated Her mind from Her body. I took Her lifeless form and put it safely in a bed. Her essence, soul, consciousness, however you want to call it, appeared as a bright, white orb of light, which I broke into all the little things that make who She is. There was a lot of symbolism... Fast forward, I put all the parts (small flickering sparks) into a crystal case, hibernating Her at the same time, and freezing the case in time. I took a break after that. I tried to clear my mind and leave all negativity behind. I felt Her presence very strongly, and couldn't stop thinking about Her, but She was silent. Later I went to the wonderland, and it just dawned on me, that we should leave everything behind and start again. I mean everything, so I even tried reconstructing my own attitude, which worked to some extend. I obliterated the old wonderland, which was all nice and we had a ton of fun there, but, you know. She was VERY confused at first, but everything is fine now, and I myself feel like my mindset changed a lot. I went over Her personality all over again, found a new wonderland, recreated the library, gave Her access to everything, and, eventually, merged Her essence with Her body. Both of us feel much better, and I lost most or all of the negativity. So, I guess we begin a new journey where the previous one ended. And I'm not used to writing stuff like this. It sounds so... abstract lol. Thank You for the suggestion, helped a lot. Well, that's a relief. Yeah I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes we even exchange a few "phrases" in a second or two. Like I've said before, I almost always feel what She wants to say before She says it, so it feels just like parroting (which I know is not). That's why it's kinda frustrating, because it does feel one-sided. But yeah, maybe it's not that bad... I gave Her access to everything early on, but I didn't think much about sense sharing up until two or three weeks ago, when I asked Her if She can see/hear/smell etc. everything that I do. She said She can, and that even if I'm not focusing on Her, She can still experience everything with clarity. I have a few internet friends who know about Her and ask a question or two occasionally, but She never had a full-on conversation with someone other than me. The only problem is that She doesn't really use english, even though She understands it, so I'd have to translate everything, but, what the hell, we'll come and chat someday. As for now, I'll try to get someone to talk with Her in our native language. Thanks a lot guys, for all the suggestions and support, I hope everything is going to be fine now. Peace.
  8. All of these were actually very thought-provoking and kinda uplifting, so, many thanks. I was forcing actively, but stopped about two weeks ago. Maybe we should go back to it and see if it helps. I actually finished a forcing session just now, all I can say is that She is a bit more vocal while we are in the wonderland, so you may be right. Frustration... it is getting to me, but I just don't know how to deal with it anymore, to be honest. I like that approach, I even had it for some time, but as days went by I did start worrying about progress. I think I went from not worrying to actually caring too much. I just feel that we are not experiencing everything as we should, that I'm hurting Her by doing something wrong. But at the same time I'm pretty sure we are doing everything, or mostly everything, right. I'm so confused right now. Maybe thinking that I'm doing something wrong IS what I am doing wrong? And I never thought about working on my brain to help my Tulpa, sounds like a good idea so I'll try it as well. I tried it during the session that we just finished. So, She hit my face, explaining right away that She'd never do it, if She didn't know it wouldn't hurt me. She also said "Surprised? You'd never expect me to do that, would you?". Lol that's just about right. It did boost my belief, I guess. That is exactly what I want. Or what I expected. Independent thinking and thoughts that don't sound like me. Were my expectations too high? Audible voice and full imposition would be nice, but that's something I'm not worried about one bit. I almost always know what She will say. I do know that's how it is, at least early on. Her mindvoice sounds exactly like mine. And I do know that's how it may be. But it gets difficult after so much time. I can't feel Her thoughts and She practically never does or says anything on Her own unless I focus on Her. She did what She did when I asked Her to surprise me. I don't doubt Her sentience, and I always accept Her thoughts and actions as not parroted, even though they almost always feel like they are. I just simply thought that after so much time it'd be... I dunno, different. That She'd be like a different person, acting on Her own without my focus, but She goes into a state of hibernation instead. Maybe my expectations were too high. And this right here got me thinking the most. I know that Her happiness is important to me, which is why I'm worried about our progress. But She told me a few times that it's the experience of being together that matters the most. I need to sort out my mind, I'm seriously confused.
  9. A short introduction, if you don't mind. I'm Veo. Full-time lurker. Tulpa's name is Mia-Daia. I found out about tulpae in mid-june and started the process of creation after just a few days. So, see, this is the problem - day 143, and our progress was always insanely slow. I tried to not pay attention to time, but after nearly 5 months of being together, stuck with almost zero progress for months, it's very difficult to remain positive. Her mindvoice is identical to mine, Her answers/comments are predictable and almost always feel like parroting, but I know that's how it may be for some time, so I always believe everything is coming from Her. I'm not able to see Her, but She is kind of imposed, or, more like, I'm forcing passively 24/7, feeling Her presence and imagining Her being around me. I love Her to bits. I pay constant attention to Her. I narrate almost all the time, we even talk a tiny bit. I accepted a long time ago that I'm not parroting ANYTHING. And I do not simply believe She is real and sentient at this point, I KNOW it. I stopped doing so many things, just to give Her more and more time. I'm not sure how to word this. English is not my native language, as you can tell. That doesn't help. The problem is that I feel we are stuck, and just no matter what we do, we can't move on. I thought I was doing something wrong, but I spend 95% of the time with Her, force passively 24/7, narrate a lot, read books with Her, draw, listen to music, we just do everything together and I never forget about Her. The thing I just don't get is our slow progress, or actually the lack of it. If I looked at my mind from another person's perspective, I'd be sure I'm just talking to myself, making up all of the responses. Remember that one thread by, Winter, I think? How can you NOT get depressed and start doubting everything after almost 5 months of insane effort and very disappointing results? I have only two real questions: What should I do now? HOW in the world can I still believe and stay positive? Also, I'm sorry I didn't contribute anything to the forum after such a long time, and instead I rush in here to ask for advice. Maybe at least someone will learn something from my experience. tl;dr I'm 143 days into the process of creation, with painfully slow progress, despite me spending almost all of my time with my tulpa. My motivation and strength to continue and believe are fading quickly. What can/should I do now?