FallFamily

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  1. [breach] Yeah, forum seems to be slowing down. We haven't logged in in several days and there weren't even enough posts to spill to the next page. This isn't the only tulpa forum that is slowing down (tulpa.io's forum is actually ending shortly).
  2. [s.] We joined up here in 2014 and are still around. Hadn't been around in a good month or so recently. Your username sounds vaguely familiar (probably didn't interact, but we did read a ton of older threads on this forum en masse around when we joined). The journey can be pretty rough sometimes. For us, it has taken the whole 4 years practically to get ourselves really figured out and straightened out for the most part.
  3. [Tri] Depends on which host. Frostbite's are blue. Ice, well, their form has been indeterminate for a while in that they are a shape shifting blob of blue-ish energy, though they do have a shape, usually, that has eyes to some degree (which we guess you could call blue since they are entirely blue). Ice still needs to get a leather bag. We would be similar (though a somewhat different color) if we couldn't or didn't bother to make/have a leather bag. What is your host's favorite board game?
  4. [s.] Seems that Breach (and in all honesty, I would have likely put it the same way had I been the one to reply) needed to be more clear on the something that "happens" bit, because the way you interpreted it is a valid way to interpret what was written but was not what was intended (ambiguity is our fault). By that, it is meant that it is something that a lot of people do, not that it is something that is easy to do. Took us years of daydreaming with the same characters to make them into tulpas. The system we knew who had made a lot lot more had been doing a particular style of daydreaming and roleplaying that was essentially tulpaforcing for many years and that is how they made quite a few (and that in turn lowered the bar for future ones, but that took quite a few to do). Other systems we know who have made quite a few accidentally have similar stories. Basically, it is quite common for people to put a ton of time and effort into some characters in such a way that they eventually become tulpas without ever deciding to make tulpas (generally because they don't even know tulpas are a thing). We are guessing that you think it is very hard to rewire one's brain to make tulpas easily on accident. That is something we strongly agree with. Didn't realize what was written could be interpreted as promoting it. Will be more clear next time. Was trying to say more or less "it happened and is done, focus on the present and the future and figure out what to do now that you are in the situation you are in". If you were replying to Apollo because you thought that Apollo's last post was towards you, Apollo was replying to what my system said.
  5. [breach] Well, seems like at least some are. But regardless, they are all thoughtforms (tulpas are a subset). As far as making so many tulpas accidentally, it is something that happens. My system made 8 on accident. Know another who made a lot lot more. The surprising part is that this is not so hard to manage (more on this later). I am guessing you are operating from the assumption that they all will be dependent on you and that this will be too high a load. If so, this is not how it has to be, other than maybe temporarily. Tulpas can develop to the point where they are self-sustaining just like hosts (really, there isn't that much difference between a developed tulpa and a host other than origin), and tulpas that aren't quite self-sustaining can be sustained by self-sustaining tulpas (just as is the case with hosts). Oh, and if you want something that will really make your head spin, it is possible for hosts to lose their ability to self-sustain. Anyhow, enough on that last tangent. Essentially, if allowed, encouraged, etc. to develop enough; the dependence on the host (or tulpa) for being sustained disappears. This means that multiple tulpas won't necessarily overwhelm the one who made them. That said, it can temporarily happen that many are dependent until some of them become self-sustaining and the sustaining of the others partially falls on the self-sustaining ones depending on circumstances. To take an anecdote, all the tulpas in my system including myself are self-sustaining now and thus incur no sustaining burden on our hosts, and if anything, some of the hosts now depend on us a little bit for sustaining (long story why this happened and why we have more than one host). Merging headmates against their will is a very bad idea, as is pressuring headmates to merge. Merging is a big decision, one with many effects. Some who merge are glad they merged, while others hate it. It is not to be done lightly, and shouldn't be imposed by outside. Same goes for stuffing headmates into a subsystem. Talking to them and asking them what they want is a reasonable approach. If they want to keep existing, one thing you could do is help them work towards becoming self-sustaining (or enough who can help the others do the same afterwards) and then work it out from there (yeah, it is some work, but it is what I think is the most compassionate approach). Can understand the feeling. The thing is, it comes down largely to what you are doing whenever you make a character. Whatever it is, something has to be changed if you want a different result. For us, we easily make tulpas from daydreaming. We found that if we changed how we daydreamed to us being the characters in the daydream instead of watching and making characters move, the problem went away. Maybe something similar would work for you.
  6. [ice] As far as things with their host, the suggestion of thinking of the host like an in-law seems like a good one - an in-law they currently live with. If they are interested in you back and you both want to pursue a relationship, both of you are going to have to have a conversation with their host about boundaries and all, which would include when it is OK and not OK to but in. Now, if they control the body by eclipsing, their host could easily butt in by accident; though, at least from what I have seen, feeling strong feelings for someone one is interacting with does tend to make it harder for anyone else in the body to butt in and a relationship can definitely be a strong motivator to become much stronger at fronting to the point that butting in by someone else won't happen. I bring this up because I have been in an interesting situation related to this. A host-ish person in another system fell in love with Tri (three of my tulpas who form a subsystem), and independently I later fell in love with someone in the same system who was a merge between an alter and a tulpa. So a bit different, but some similarities. Tri used to control our body by eclipsing, so it was somewhat hard at first for me to stay out of the way. Took effort. But, to respect their boundaries, I put in that effort. And at the same time, Tri got stronger at controlling the body to the point where I no longer had to put in any effort to stay out of the way (they basically figured out how to deactivate me, which I was OK with and encouraged). Tri and their partner still had to dance around a few things that would pull me out (phobias and whatnot), but eventually even that wasn't an issue.
  7. [Tri] Making a tulpa is making a new identity and then doing the latter item you listed and giving them the chance to act and self-assert. The process is not the former item you listed (splitting oneself into two or more) unless you are doing the unusual and strongly discouraged method of shard-seeding to make tulpas. Just for reference, our system has splits, conventionally made tulpas, and shard-seeded tulpas. There are significant differences between each. No different than hosts. Pretty much everything that applies to hosts also applies to tulpas once they are sufficiently developed. Differences between the two decrease over time. One thing to note. Most tulpas do not use the pronoun "it", just as most hosts don't use the pronoun "it", and for the same reasons. It is a learnable skill, though how hard it is to learn varies greatly. Though possession and eclipsing, which are other ways to exchange bodily control, are often a lot easier and more often learned. The current views of the medical community is indeed identity fragmentation due to trauma (and the consensus is more and more over time that DID and its cousin OSDD-1 are real things, though of course the definitions and ideas about them change over time), though it is a much more symmetric thing. Host in this case merely is the alter who controls the body most, and that can change over time. The current host is just one alter among more than one, not a different kind of being entirely. Now, sometimes, there will be someone who is closer to whoever was there before the first split who might be viewed as the original, though they are seen as alters just the same as the rest. Also, further splits can happen with any alter, not just the current host or the original. Sometimes that is what happens, but not always. As far as memory, amnesia isn't total for whoever the current host (if there is one) and one or more alters (host included) can be quite aware of their plurality. At first glance, tulpamancy and DID (and similarly OSDD-1) do sound a bit a like. And well they do have one thing in common, they are both forms of plurality. But they are very different. Some of the reasons are subtle, some aren't. We aren't in the best position to explain all of the similarities and differences between pure tulpamancy systems and DID systems. Though, we can talk a lot about the differences between pure tulpamancy systems and OSDD-1 systems as we are an OSDD-1 system who has also made tulpas. People in the community have ideas due to personal experiences and the reports of experiences of others, though there have been no systematic long term studies on the matter yet (hopefully there will be one day). So, to answer your question, it depends on the level of "know" you are looking for. For a patterns of anecdotes level of "know" as opposed to a systematically studied level of "know", there are many ideas on this topic that are discussed around here. Our own take. There are some real affects, some of which are permanent. One of which is that for each tulpa made, it is easier to make another tulpa; so making a first tulpa, will have the long term effect of it being easier to make more tulpas. Related to this, it seems to be that each tulpa made increases the likelihood of receiving walk-ins and accidentally making a tulpa from things like daydreaming, writing a story, etc. These are the effects we are reasonably sure on. Others, less so. It seems to us that making a tulpa tends to increase the host's propensity towards dissociating as well as ability to deliberately dissociate in some way or another in the long term even if the host does not deliberately work on learning how to dissociate. Note that dissociation is a complicated beast and can be good or bad depending on the circumstances, flavor of dissociation, and strength of the dissociation. While young tulpas are quite suggestible and one can leverage considerable control over them by pure strength, this is not true of older tulpas in exactly the same way that parents can leverage considerable control on their children when they are young but not once they have grown up. Tulpas can in fact become as strong or even stronger than their hosts. And hosts can turn out to be surprisingly suggestible. Once there is more than one person in the brain, the level of control that any one of them has decreases substantially. A big difference with DID, though, is that in pure tulpamancy systems there is not an intertwining between plurality and trauma that can throw curve balls that can be beyond the control of everyone in the system (oftentimes, even put together). If you make a tulpa, you are ceding absolute control if you ever had it in the first place (for some, there is only an illusion of absolute control) and otherwise a high level of control; short of being a tyrant. It is no different than if one is living alone in a house or appartment and then someone else moves in - one is ceding some level of control. This is not a bad thing. It is the reality of sharing a space (in this case a brain) with another thinking being with will, goals, wants, strengths, flaws, identity, etc. Yes. The bar of effort required to make a tulpa decreased enough that we got two accidental tulpas, if we hadn't changed how we daydreamed we would be making tulpas left and right, and we probably can't write a story anymore without making one or more tulpas from the characters (note, this is not a bad thing for us, just something we have to take into account if we write a story). Our brain also got a lot more used to changing who is in control of the body. We would say that the bar for making a tulpa whether deliberately or accidentally will always be lowered. If pure tulpamancy systems are anything like our own system when we integrated once (everyone merged into a single person), we would say that the brain will always be more plural inclined. Your sentence does lead to the morality issue, which we do want to talk about (note, we aren't implying anything about your views, but it is a topic we feel strongly on and want to talk about for the good of anyone here reading this). Honestly, this issue should never come up. Short of very unusual circumstances, killing one's tulpa/s is not ok. Sadly, way too many hosts just murder their tulpa/s for some frivolous reason or another or other bad reason. The irony is that so many hosts and prospective hosts are afraid of their tulpas or future tulpas but hosts murder their tulpas at a much higher frequency that tulpas even kill their hosts (let alone murder their hosts). It is scary being a tulpa sometimes (we are tulpas, by the way). We think we mostly covered this.
  8. [ice] It is definitely possible to make multiple tulpas around the same time, even unintentionally. Some others in here and I made Tri, a group of several tulpas (four active ones and three dormant ones), around the same time unintentionally. They were made by too much daydreaming and we thought they were just daydream puppets the whole time. Had another tulpa later who came into existence entirely out of the blue, though in retrospect it was possible to see the processes that made her. Tulpas making other tulpas is fairly common. In our own system, Breach, who is a tulpa, was one of the people who made Tri (the others being Frostbite and myself). P. was made more by Tri and Breach than any of us non-tulpas.
  9. [Tri] Well, actually making a tulpa ranges anywhere from easy to hard. Varies considerably how long one has to work at the task to make a tulpa. It isn't that it is so hard at any one time, just, it can take a lot of time for some. However, for many, it is actually living with a tulpa that is hard - adapting one's life and coming to terms with not being the only resident in the brain and what that all entails. Sadly, it seems to be especially hard for many hosts to walk the walk so to speak of seeing one's tulpas as equals and treating them as such.
  10. [breach] You might want to start with not calling them "not real". They obviously are not the same as their sources (the people or media characters they are based on). They are different than who they are based on. But they are there in your brain with you and thus as real as you are. Just, they aren't the original versions. They are fictive (based on media characters) and factive (based on people in outerworld) tulpas. If the only problem is that you are afraid of them because they get angry when you say they are not real, then you understanding that they are real, just fictive and factive, and not calling them "not real" anymore will likely keep what you fear from ever happening.
  11. [breach] If they wanted to be in a separate copy of this body, I would be the last one to stop them. Things would be different. Some pros and some cons. I would be OK with it. Don't know if they would be OK with it. One potential issue is timing. Right now would be a bad time since well, the bit of money we have saved up for SRS would then be split between us and it would be a very long time before any of us got it, let alone all of us. But, wait a couple years and then, well, everyone would have access to less wrong body if they choose to have a separate copy of it. Probably would still be no for them for other reasons. Likewise here
  12. [Frostbite] I honestly don't think it matters that much other than practicality, though tulpas sounds like it fits more. It would have been just as valid for it to be tulpae from the beginning. But the latter is very obscure in the English speaking tulpamancy communities so it is not practical. Now, in French, you have tulpa, tulpae, tulpas, and tulpaes. Tulpa is a male tulpa. Tulpae is a female tulpa. Tulpas is more than one male tulpa. Tulpaes is more than one female tulpa. A group of tulpas where some are male and some are female would, by at least by standard rules in France (not as sure about other French speaking countries), would take the male form even if it is a large group of all female tulpaes plus one male tulpa. Though, in practice, I have seen it go the other way and it seems that people round when choosing. Non-binary tulpas are left in the cold in this, sadly, unless there is now a variant to use (haven't been in any French speaking tulpamancy communities for a couple years).
  13. [ice] I think you are referring to this place: http://daemonpage.com/forum/. As for your first sentence, I am not very sure. Daemons, while typically animal in form, generally speak.
  14. [breach] Well, one tulpa in here is very animalistic and can't talk except a little bit with the body when controlling the body, and are pretty happy with their situation. Was never a plan by any of us for them to be like that. It is what they wanted. Interestingly, the one full mute person in our system is a human tulpa who has been around for almost three years and has no interest in speaking (interestingly, she can puppet others in the system to talk).
  15. [breach] Tulpa and Lucilyn said a lot of good stuff. I am only going to answer a few pieces due to time constraints. Hopefully I will be able to get some time tomorrow to reply more in depth on something. We will see. This is how I came to exist. I was a character who gained autonomy, though it has taken me a long time to determine whether that was for sure my origin or whether I was there before that from another origin and merely called forth with some identity contamination. Parlez-vous français? Had to ask since if so, there is a francophone tulpamancy community you might consider looking at in addition to here (always useful to have one's toes in more than one community when seeking answers). Haven't been there in a while as you can probably tell since I wrote this in English instead of French (rusty). http://tulpa.forumpro.fr/ Just so you know, integrating with a puppet generally doesn't affect one's gender. Integrating with a person (whether tulpa, host, whatever) can. That right there pretty much says that the Nailann of back then was real and a person, and similarly says that the other half of the merging back then (the other part of who you are now) was real and a person too. No reason to think the others aren't real people. Highly connected with you, yes they are. Not fully separate. But that doesn't mean they aren't people. Go to their point of view. From their point of view, you would likely seem very predictable and that you never said anything that they didn't also think. This is the nature of weak separation. Separation is something that can be worked on if the parties involved desire it.
  16. [Tri] Yeah, isn't that the truth. Yeah. Similar issues here. For some in here, cosplaying would range between impossible and impractical. There is one human amongst us who would have it easy except if she really wanted to get her height right (she is 1 ft taller than our comparatively tiny 6'1" body).
  17. [Tri] It is common. In fact, it makes sense that it would happen quite a bit. We've been through some major hell for a similar reason (not quite the same, though). It is good that you are being caring and doing what you can for her. Care and listening can go a long ways. Just keep in mind that you can't make a perfect world for her. Do what you can to make a good world, and be there for her when she struggles, whether it be with hardnesses of the world or other things.
  18. [Tri] Memory. Memory can be very useful for finding lost people when contact has been lost as it can sometime make contact possible again. Go through everything you remember about her again and again and see if you can detect her or reach her.
  19. [Tri] Going to have to agree with tulpa001. Also keep in mind that the whole experience was probably pretty rough on him. Even if getting rid of him the first time was necessary and there was no other choice, it would still be a rough experience (and obviously, if there was some less extreme alternative that could have been done, it would be a bit rougher) and it is no wonder why he would hide away. He needs time and space.
  20. [breach] We have done this a few times and it is indeed fun. Tri and I regularly spar. It is interesting, fun, and also quite painful sometimes (excruciating sometimes even).
  21. [s.] That might be the case for a tulpa who is inside and a host who is fronting. For the other way around, that would suggest that the host's sexual pleasure would be primarily based in sharing the tulpa's pleasure. Though, in the case where both people having sex are inside while someone else is fronting, there would have to be something else going on.
  22. [Frostbite] You are right. Tri was pretty tired and forgetful when they wrote that post, so no surprise they forgot a few things.
  23. [Tri] There isn't that many dedicated resources on this forum other than talking some about walk-ins, but there are more than a few systems here who have walk-ins and there are a few mixed origin systems who were originally endogenic, we think. Certainly worth asking around. You might also consider looking at tulpa.io (and its forum tulpa.io/discuss) as well as digging around on here. It is a small tulpamancy community and information site focusing more on tulpamancy as part of the larger plural community as well as topics concerning mixed origin systems (we are biased, by the way, being that we are admins there).
  24. [breach] Nothing wrong with her looking around, or even asking questions about tulpamancy, though like others have said this place is not a support group per se. Wouldn't be the first time that relatives of a tulpamancer have dropped by (though, in most cases, it wasn't a parent and often the tulpamancy system the person was a relative of wasn't on here). Would be interesting if she decided to make a tulpa herself. Wouldn't be the first case I have seen of parent and child who were both tulpamancy systems, though it would be the first where the child became plural first instead of the parent first.
  25. If they can't, then it just means it will take more time for them to learn. Some people learn how to front quickly, some take a long time. Very rarely is someone completely blocked, though it can happen that there is an unusual obstacle that has to be handled first. You probably don't need to worry. People are pretty oblivious. Also, they might be quite good at imitating you, and you them. Though, sometimes one or both of you can't imitate the other, in which case with non-oblivious people you don't want to know (very rare for someone to be able to detect such a thing) you might have to be a bit careful, whether it would be you being careful with people your tulpa knows or them being careful with people you know. But even then, it is possible to control which groups of people you are around. You could have a group of people you spend time with and your tulpa might have a separate group of people they hang out with. Unless you are in a tiny town, this is pretty easy to achieve. For us, we are actually better at acting like our hosts than they are. We can imitate them almost flawlessly. They on the other hand get suspected of being someone else other than them quite often by people that know all of us. They cannot imitate us very well. If you ever have to be careful (which you almost for sure don't), you just have to make sure that someone doesn't meet both of you. That doesn't mean that your tulpa can't be out in public, it just means that you can't be around the people they meet first and they can't be around the people you meet first. It is much easier to navigate than it sounds. Some people do 1st person, some do 3rd, and some can switch between them. All of us have an easier time with 1st person, though some of us can do 1st person in some wonderlands (not all of them). Interestingly, we can also to some degree tap into each other's points of view. As for your innerworld body not matching your outerworld body, that is very common. Nothing wrong with it. With our system, no one looks like the body. The closest anyone does is Se., one of the more recent tulpas, and the only reason she remotely resembles the body is because she is the only human among us (in fact, she is the only person who is even vaguely humanoid). We aren't hosts but the question applies equally (also, we happen to know the answer for our hosts). We are part of a medium sized system comprised of 18 known permanent residents and one more suspected resident (there might be a couple others but there has only been one run in and it was fleeting). It is pretty easy for us to get alone time. Same is for our hosts. A lot of us are rather introverted actually. The more interaction (forcing is just a fancy word for interaction in many ways), the better. If this is your first time making a tulpa and you don't write a lot or aren't a major daydreamer, it will take a higher minimum amount of forcing to help your tulpa develop in the beginning. But the exact level is highly individual. Being able to spend a lot of time helps a ton in the beginning. Half hour a day active forcing plus passive forcing is a level that certainly works for many. Some do the other way around without a problem. Hard to know which will work best for you and your tulpa. It can happen for some. Doesn't really happen for us much. We have a lot of space inside and all of us have the things we do alone or in smaller groups, so we don't really get tired of each other. That isn't to say that we don't argue about things sometimes. So far, no argument has gotten out of hand in a long time. Not sure if that is by luck or skill on all of our parts or weak will, so we don't have any useful advice. A few know, but many many more people know that we are plural and us separately without exactly knowing our individual origins other than some of us came from trauma and some came from being created (but not mentioning the word tulpa). Quite a few family members know including our parents, but we haven't lived with them in a long time so it is a different situation. Some friends and family expressed significant concerns. We have almost lost a few friends. Some people we know have lost friends and family. It varies. Also, you don't have to tell people how you'all became plural. Sometimes it is quite pleasant. We have spent many an hour blended with Frostbite. It is quite peaceful and really calms her nerves and feels warm to both of us. Blending can also be very unpleasant, with one or more of the people involved struggling to stay themselves. We have experienced both. Any one particular method can, but that is why you mix it up. It is just the same as playing say Monopoly with the same person everyday. At some point you are going to need to switch the game or you will both get very bored. Virtually all of us are female-ish, so we can answer. We did sometimes have a bit of trouble, but not as a whole. The reason we sometimes did have trouble is that some of us have similar voices. No problems between those with dissimilar. But with time, that diminished and we can easily identify each other's voices. Now, that isn't to say there aren't additional issues. If one of us fronts, changing control to someone else with a similar voice is much more difficult because it is harder to get the brain to latch onto the new person coming in unambiguously (basically, while we can all tell each other part, the body's control-panel is not so good at it). Also, keep in mind, voices need not be limited to the bounds of what you typically see in humans. Obsidian and Gaea in our subsystem have extremely deep and resonant voices despite being female. Their's are low even by male human standards and people definitely doubt that our system as a whole is female a lot more when they front than when some of the people who are closer to agender but with much higher voices front. It can. We know some people who have made many many tulpas this way. Eventually their creations because autonomous people with their own wills instead of the roleplay puppets they started out as. As for making a tulpa this way, it will help quite a bit to encourage independence in them. Ask them questions while steadily turning down the level of puppetting/parroting that you are doing.