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Real senses getting in the way of Wonderland...


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A little background on me:

 

I found this website a while ago, and immediately fell in love with the idea. I started my tulpa about three months ago, but we really haven't gotten that far yet. He seems to be vocal sometimes, when i'm listening, and in a half trance state, but I have a hard time finding traces of his existence normally.

 

To the problem:

 

I originally tried the wonderland method, but I've been running into a problem. Whenever I try to visualize any of the senses, or even just try to feel the wonderland body I created for myself, my subconscious processes automatically recheck the Real sense, find a discrepancy, and reject the Wonderland senses. It really is very annoying and I'm not sure how to fix it.

 

I thank you all in advance for your help.

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This sounds interesting, because I had the same problem when I begun forcing. It pretty much of faded away with time and experience but never really disappeared. I imagine though this is a regular issue and everybody is confronted with it on various levels, but I would still be interested if someone came with an idea I didn't have.

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Whenever I try to visualize any of the senses, or even just try to feel the wonderland body I created for myself, my subconscious processes automatically recheck the Real sense, find a discrepancy, and reject the Wonderland senses. It really is very annoying and I'm not sure how to fix it.

 

First of all, I don't think your brain does that sort of computer-like checking when it makes you feel your normal senses instead of your mindscape body's senses.

 

Secondly, just keep practicing.

 

Thirdly, try to go to your mindscape when you are in a comfortable place with few sensual distractions in the real, physical world, like a bed or something.

 

Good luck!

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Lacquer is right. Practice makes perfect. If you just keep doing it, it will get better, you *adapt* to the feelings and they feel natural.

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First of all, I don't think your brain does that sort of computer-like checking when it makes you feel your normal senses instead of your mindscape body's senses.

 

Mine does. It's basically a case of "don't think about pink elephants". You have this thought in the back of your mind that you're supposed to find that your physical senses dull as you become more immersed in the wonderland. You're probably trying to observe this, either as a way to check how deep you are or just to see this amazing thing happen. Since it's an issue of trying to suppress a thought, the more you worry about this being a problem, the more trouble you'll have with it.

 

So, the solution is to ignore the problem. Don't worry about how well you're feeling your wonderland. When physical senses intrude, as they sometimes will, don't get upset over it. It happens. Treat it like any other distraction in meditation: simply acknowledge it and return your focus to your wonderland.

 

Don't expect to be only in the wonderland, completely oblivious of the real world; at least not yet. You'll be in both places, and you can focus more on one place or the other. It's a little like when you're playing a video game, you aren't fully immersed in the game world. You have that, but you still have the room around you. You can focus more on one or the other, and either can grab your attention away from the other. The more focused your mind becomes on the game world or wonderland, the less meaningful things happening around you in real life become, and the harder it becomes for those things to distract you. In both cases, actively trying to ignore the distractions only makes them more present in your mind -- in thinking about not thinking about them, you think about them. Instead, you focus only on the game or your wonderland and the rest happens on its own.

 

I used to have this problem and still do from time to time. It took me quite a while to realize what I had to do. For quite a while before I was ready to understand it, Lyra was telling me basically what I'm telling you -- "just come in here with me". Seriously, that's all there is to it. The more rubbish you add about trying to block out the real-world stimuli or worrying about how thoroughly you're immersed, the more trouble you'll have.

Lyra: human female, ~17

Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee

Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her

My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)

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OP didn't say it was computer-like either, and I'm saying my early experiences line up with his. It feels like something subconscious doing it entirely automatically, outside of my control. It happens before I can even think about it.

Lyra: human female, ~17

Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee

Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her

My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)

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This may be a tangent here, but whenever I would perform a WILD or just wanting to get in a half-asleep state, I think the first thing that is easier for me is to start with my dream/wonderland body.

 

As in actually immersing myself into the environment, without any senses as yet. Then when I can visualize myself (since my eyes are closed, and vision wouldn't be a problem if they're shut obviously) in the environment, I gradually shift to the other senses.

 

I don't think too much on the mechanics behind it, I just start visualizing and imagining "phantom" sensations if that's a right term to use. And it's easier for me to do because I can get relaxed pretty easy now, so the worrying on whether or not I'm doing something right isn't even a factor anymore.

 

Although I do agree to the previous posters saying how you're still aware of both real senses and the other set of senses relating to visualization in wonderlands, I've had experiences where my body literally goes into conditions related to the sleeping state. I managed to get in such a relaxed state that I feel those tingling sensations and parts of my body going into a "stasis," and all that's there is my awareness.

 

I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's when you feel this very awkward sensation where you just want to move your body (not because of a twitch), but because you're feeling how the muscles in your body become "lifeless" (excluding the ones that are obviously active no matter what happens).

 

 

Of course, I don't literally mean lifeless as in dead, and the best way I can put it is just imagine having thermal vision googles, and you knocked a person out, you can see some body parts, after a given time, not have as much heat as they did before. There's less focus on it (for the person knocked out), therefore it looks like the person's dead (but they're not). So what I'm getting at here is that you could use that analogy as a visualization to become more focused on your wonderland senses rather than your real senses. When you see a thermal vision body of yourself slowly cooling down, you start presuming and imagining that you'll be more relaxed and less worried about your real senses.

 

 

That and many other ways of visualizing "cooling," "relaxing," "descending," etc. are what I feel are crucial before you get deep into wonderland aspects. Even if your mind can emulate the visualizations with ease like it's second nature, start with relaxing yourself first. From personal experience, if I wanted to practice wonderland visualization or just developing my tulpa's vocal skills, I have to be in a relaxed state so that I'm open to many suggestions and sensations.

 

 

The concentration is like a double-edged sword, it can give you what you want to focus on, but at the same time, if you don't develop one that can juggle around with other potentials, that's when you start messing up and thinking you're not getting anywhere. So just relax, practice more on ways you can relax yourself and maintain awareness when you go through the lethargic stages and beyond, and from there, just give yourself the assurance that you'll have a broader awareness of your wonderland senses. And from there, let your subconscious do the work, start using your mindvoice to direct your subC to showing and giving you what you want. When you start thinking about how the subC generally works, and the wonderland senses are just blasting right in your face, that's when all confusion, guilt, and worry will subside.

 

It's all about gradual relaxation (getting yourself in the practical mindset/frequency/mentality) first before you do anything complex.

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I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's when you feel this very awkward sensation where you just want to move your body (not because of a twitch), but because you're feeling how the muscles in your body become "lifeless" (excluding the ones that are obviously active no matter what happens).

 

There's any specific way to solve this? This happens me 9 out of 10 times I try to get into a deep relaxation state (be it in wonderland or not), and no matter what I try to do or not to do, that awkward sensation just grows larger and larger until the point it's completely unbearable and I have to change the position of my body, breaking all the damn mood I had managed to set up.

Nothing.

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