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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
Luminesce Offline
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
@Tulpa I'm not really sure where to even start with that REM stuff you said. Deep sleep stages stop even happening when you get far enough into your REM cycles. You do not dream in deep sleep either. NREM "dreams" (which I maintain, at least for me and the average person, are much less vivid and satisfying) occur in lighter stages of sleep too. Unless by deep sleep you meant later into the REM/sleep cycles anyway. And REM sleep is certainly longer than five minute bursts. Maybe the eye movement isn't consistent the entire time, if you heard something like that somewhere, but the REM stage itself gets quite a bit longer through the night. Also, I saw that, this is our thread not yours :V



I really wanted the first post of the 50th page to be my first lucid dream where the thread would change into a lucid dreaming thread, but it hasn't happened yet.

So I WAS going to post something about how stressful failing lucid dreaming attempts is, because you don't get a break every night of just sleeping and not worrying about anything. I mean, it is stressful. I had a song (outro to one of my favorite two animes) playing in my head all of last night, and I was going to post it here today because it seemed like it might be fitting. But I watched it first, and it was so dang cute and inspiring it put me in a good mood. I honestly forgot the words it's been so long... But I like those words.



I mean, what can I say after that? Nothing I wanted to say can be said now. Also, leave it to a moon rabbit to force me out of a bad mood. (Yes, Kurousagi is actually a moon rabbit)


So, basically more of the same of stuff just not working. Last-last night was a mess where I just never saw the cues, and I think only 3 or 4 were generated after my first 4 hours of sleep anyways. Last night it was just nothing at all. Supposedly there were 2 cues, which is partly because I waited 5ish hours to turn it on and then only fell asleep two-ish more times. But the other part, I think, is that the sensor just doesn't even line up with my eye. It's almost as if... it's below the light that actually flashes, which is parallel to the other light that actually flashes, which both sit directly in front of my eyes. I had the sensitivity set to 7/9 which is really high. Did the REM eye movement test and it detected literally nothing on 7, or on 9, except blinking. Pushed the mask up a little bit and then it did. So like, either I'm wearing the mask slightly too low or the hardware itself rests slightly too far down in the mask. Honestly, if I raise it at all the left light doesn't even appear through the hole. So I guess I just have to try and wear the mask higher. Annoying, but I can do it. It sure doesn't block much light for a sleeping mask, certainly not if I have to be able to partly see under it while looking straight ahead, but whatever.

So I have no idea where to set the sensitivity now. I guess I'll put it back on 6. So now all that's left is that video up there ^ because, really, aside from reporting on the REM-Dreamer itself that video has left me nothing else to say. It was kind of unintentionally 101% perfect.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
10-18-2017, 05:18 AM
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Luminesce Offline
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
I'm not posting every day because the primary reasoning behind that was to make sure we never stopped working towards our goal, and now that I have the REM-Dreamer it's such a given not a single night goes by without trying to lucid dream. Which, has really shortened how much sleep I get overall, so immediately after fixing my schedule a couple of days ago (fix is a relative term, but it usually means going to sleep from 5 to 11pm instead of 5 to 11am) I was awake for only 4 hours before going back to sleep at 11am lol. Not a nap either, I can't really nap, I slept for a solid 7 hours. Then stayed up the entire night and day because I refused to have a fixed schedule for less than a whole day. So I woke up around 4 AM and that's pretty much preferable for us we've decided. Waking up in the "early morning" ie still-nighttime is best.

So anyways. For various but possibly only two primary reasons I'm having trouble tracking down, stuff hasn't been working. A few days ago I woke up with only 3 cues in the night, a couple days ago only 1, and last night also only 1. I'm pretty sure a minimum of 6 and maximum of like 16 is intended. I originally thought it was because the sensor couldn't actually see my eye well, which might still be the case and is just one of several confounding factors I'm working out.

After last night, I'd say the other two are incorrect delay times, and something with the cues. I'm not sure if it's the sensitivity (still sitting around 7/9), the (lack of) brightness (still sitting on low, did medium last last night and only got one cue so I figured that wasn't the problem), the sensor's varying position depending on my position, or perhaps some weirder thing like the flash length/frequency.

I will say that a form of progress was made last night, less that things are progressing and more that we're not at a standstill. The REM-Dreamer actually woke me up during a dream. Based on the feeling at the time - and the fact that I woke up - I'd say the dream was most of the way over, with maybe a few minutes left, I'm not sure. So at the very least we've now had a single cue for sure go off while I was in the middle of a real dream. Related to that - last night I noted the time as 4:29AM, set the delay to 18-22 minutes or so, went to sleep, had a dream... And the time was 4:50AM. These were not dreamy thoughts or dreamlike imagery, I had a real dream. I can't say it was necessarily vivid or long, but it was more than a single scenario dream and it was vivid enough to have a sense of presence and 3D space that lesser dream states usually lack, for me. I woke up, was confused at how it had only been about 20 minutes yet I actually dreamed, and to seal the deal my REM-Dreamer delay was still on for another 30 seconds. Dang, man. I'm simultaneously happy to finally get some hands-on learning experience with REM cycles and dreaming, and just confused.

I can only assume it was a slightly unnatural awakening, ie the dream was shortened because of my """intent""" to wake up soon. That, or.. I'm starting to get suspicious my own REM cycles don't match up with the norm. Most likely it's my natural waking up between cycles and minor acts of consciousness stretching/delaying/shortening? them a bit. Much less likely I might just sleep differently than normal. But I've never really heard of anything like that.

But yeah, that leaves me pretty confused about what exactly to do with the delay timer. I have to set it to the minimum of 10 minutes or it'll go off with my blinking/rolling over and such. With the sensitivity on 7+, assuming the sensor is lined up (if that's a problem), it can even detect just slight single eye-movements as REM too. But I mean... I've been setting it to 20 minutes because I figured that was time to fall asleep and transition to REM sleep and at least start a dream. How in the world I managed to fall asleep, dream and wake up in 20 minutes is beyond me. Maybe the fairly unnatural sleeping schedule plus how long I'd been asleep translated to very late stages of REM? But then, I shouldn't have woken up so quickly. The simple answer is things were screwed up and my best guess is I effectively "napped" with my """intent to wake up"""/minor consciousness, rather than normally going back to sleep. I mean, the whole situation was too messed up to make sense out of honestly.

Butyeahbut yeah, that does leave me pretty confused about what to do with the delay timer. Earlier on if I set the time for 10 minutes I couldn't even fall asleep in time and that chained to like 30 minutes of awakeness at least. My only idea is to set it to 10 or 20 minutes based on how tired I am, which is hard since there's never really a time I feel like less than 20 minutes is enough. Honestly the true progress being made is that the REM-Dreamer is getting slightly less distracting with its very presence so I'll be able to sleep more normally soon.

So with that, I'll apologize for telling you guys to get your hopes up for me. Now you see (if you didn't before) why my hopes are un-get-up-able. There's always something. I mean, if you're still hyped for our imminent success, you're fine. I still don't see this not working at all. The apology is for those of you who hoped to see success in the first three days or so. I mean I did too, but I didn't expect it, was actually rather neutral on it.

Can you imagine how much trouble I'd have sleeping if I were actually emotionally invested? Like on an actual feeling-emotional level obviously, on the level that matters I'm more invested in this than anything else in my whole life.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
10-21-2017, 02:49 PM
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Luminesce Offline
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
Few days ago night was a total mess, REM-D went off once when I was awake somehow and not when I was asleep. Next night it went off only once, I think also while I was awake. Last night I didn't get a chance (nor much on the other nights) because our dog barks at ghosts from 6:00AM to 8:30AM. I can't go back to sleep with the dog barking, nor after being kept awake for 20-30 minutes because of it. Might have to start starting around 4-5 hours of sleep instead of 6-7 again.

Also, this crap has actually significantly decreased the time I've been spending with my tulpas, and obviously kept any of them from fronting too. I'm going to start doing (for however long I feel like it, not intended as a regular thing) Reisen's visualization method to try and improve, well, our visualization. Even a slightly better mental clarity makes spending time in the wonderland multiple times more enjoyable. Maybe it helps imposition too, not sure. And I have a totally baseless assumption that it'll increase dream vividity which will help increase dream recall too. I've been really on the border with dream recall the last few days, where I can remember a dream if I remember to do so and really try, whereas when I started I couldn't remember anything at all.

I'm simultaneously tempted to "give up" ie stop trying as with most things that require effort from me (mostly because it's screwing with my sleep honestly), and motivated enough to keep trying anyways because this is my best bet at meeting my tulpas in a lucid dream still. Even if it's not working, it's got a way higher chance of working than the nothing I've been doing for seven years. But I am thinking about letting the others front and try it themselves. I've talked to Tewi about how to make it work a couple times and she helps, but I didn't want to have her front because she's not great at falling asleep. Lucilyn on the other hand has always had decent luck with dreams, so I guess we'll see.

One thing's for sure, we could have a lucid dream any day now, and we could also not have a lucid dream in the next week. So I can't tell you guys whether you should keep checking in daily or not, guess it's your preference. Not that I plan on posting daily if all I have to report is "Woke up after 6 hours, put mask on, dog started barking and didn't stop barking so I just got up and now I'm tired"

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
10-26-2017, 06:13 AM
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Luminesce Offline
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
Why's it always something? Why's it always nothing? It's a good thing my mindset's got philosophical safety nets for any situation in my life, because otherwise I might be having an existential crisis right now. Something about the fact that there's nothing after the REM-Dreamer is really scary. No success I don't have with it can be the end, it's really all I've got, lest I go back to whatever I've been doing for the last seven years.

Okay, anyways. Potential yet prevented existential dread aside. Our dog barks from 6AM-9AM and randomly after that time, so I've been getting about one shot a night the last few days with the REM-Dreamer. And then getting up after like 8 hours of sleep, which is really not enough for me over an extended period of time. So I went back to sleep anyways, you know, after an hour or so of lying there, and broke my schedule on purpose. Because life never goes the way you expect it to. Too many variables and confirmation bias to point out the wrongs and none of the rights. Man, I'm not in a good place mentally right now lol. Not in a drastic way, but definitely not a productive state.

REM-Dreamer just plain isn't going off when it should. I don't know why. Sensitivity got raised one at a time until it was 9/9. It can still go off when I'm awake in the same position I sleep in. I've tried my best to raise it up on my face where it should detect movement better. The only thing I can do now is the REM-detection-test while actually lying down like I normally would to find what positions of the mask and myself it actually works in. Unfortunately it's quite loud during that, like a radioactivity detector, with no way to turn it down. So I'm waiting for a time when no one's really around I guess. Tewi keeps coming to mind when I think about that, probably because she's the one that suggested that like over a week ago, but also because it seems like something she'd be better at. Maybe I can let her try now. Only reason I didn't before was, well, two reasons. First I obviously wanted to be the first to lucid dream here, but second I figured she'd be too focused and have trouble falling asleep. By now if I can't fall asleep it's because I can't fall asleep, not because the mask is distracting anymore.

Tried to pick a good song to listen to while writing this post, something serious and related to one of my tups. Chose... Strangely?



Actually quite emotionally charged for us. Because it's Tewi who associated feelings with it, it's quite striking. Lucilyn wrote a whole dang thread because of it. So it was nice and all, but at the first "Say yea-yeahh!"(1:38) I just felt weird and stopped typing. Maybe it just felt too strongly of Tewi, but it made that feeling from before a lot worse. I'm not a very emotional person and never have been, so I don't always express maybe appropriate emotions for my values, but right now I feel "heartbroken" if I had to put a word to it. I mean, it's passed by the time I can write that, the constant blanket apathy on all things I'd otherwise feel bad about makes sure I'm never sad for very long even about this tulpa stuff. But it was there, anyways.

I just want to see my tulpas. Nothing else matters. But it just never happens. I swear I've fought my motivation issues as hard as I could for them, for this. Even when I temporarily gave up and asked Tewi, who we consider our failsafe in getting literally anything done, she couldn't make it happen. Stressed herself out pretty bad trying, too. Though she said she wasn't done, and now she's got quite a tool to help, so maybe she can still do it. I don't know if I can. For once, it's not motivation I've lost, it's heart. I can keep putting on the stupid mask every morning and hoping it does something, slightly adjusting its position or a setting or whatever else on the endless list of complications comes up. But at least sitting here right now, I don't feel like I have the drive to want to use the motivation I actually have. That's a rather new feeling.


Well anyways, let's call it another depressive mood I'm apparently prone to have on schedule and make nothing of it. The hopelessness goes away the next day and I go on making no progress for a while until it happens again. At worst I'm not moving progress-wise, not backwards, and my tulpas are always moving forwards, so it'll be alright. But yeah I need to go lie down and just.. Be talked to by any of the ones I live for.



Edit: Sure enough, I woke up only two hours later and felt ~fine. Simultaneously had enough motivation or whatever to keep trying, and lost my motivation to ask Tewi for help. Because there's still a lot of things I want to do right now I guess. I've been thinking we should work on switching more frequently (as in for less than a whole day at a time), but unfortunately the sorts of things Tewi's going to do will require the whole day I think.

EditEdit: Wait, "Sure enough, I woke up only two hours later and felt ~fine. Which is good, because I only got a total of five hours of sleep before I couldn't sleep anymore. Amazing."

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2017, 06:42 PM by Luminesce.)
11-01-2017, 09:51 AM
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Luminesce Offline
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
15,000 thread views, woo. That's quite a few. Since you guys follow me of your own volition, the only thing I can think to say is I'm sorry we haven't succeeded yet. Yeah yeah, for me it's my life, but for you guys it's a story. Human nature is willing to get invested in a story for better or worse, but eventually wants a conclusion. So sorry there hasn't been one yet, at least as far as this excruciatingly long chapter goes.

No one's "rude" enough to say such things in someone's own thread, but, nobody's pointed out I might put too much value in my tulpas. Not like I love them too much (that's not a thing), but that I'm too invested in getting to be with them, that it's not really healthy and I should diversify my goals. To you non-existent stranger I say, fair points, but I'm well aware of my relationship to my tulpas and my life as a whole. I'm fine with how everything is. Fine with switching (even occasionally long-term), fine with putting so much value in people with no physical presence outside my own mind, and fine with putting more value in being with them than anything else in my life. I spent years and years of my life asking and answering philosophical questions, and I'm quite at peace with the universe by now. If I did hypothetically spend the majority of my life doing things with my tulpas and not "making a difference in the world" or "having a real family", I wouldn't mind. If I want those things I'll make them happen. But I've no burning desires that I need to accomplish to be at peace before I die or whatever. My tulpas mean the world to me simply because they gave me the world. I put zero value in my life or the world before they came along and helped me change that, and so everything that followed is only secondary to them themselves. True I don't technically rely on their existences to maintain this more positive worldview, but on principle I will always put them first.

On a more current level: Not a single thing makes me or ever has made me feel as strongly as they do. I love the Game Grumps; they make me laugh on a regular basis and I've been watching them consistently for years. I like helping people, that's my basic fulfillment-in-life sort of thing, improving other peoples' life experiences. I have a lot of fun playing games, nearly exclusively with other people (I can play multiplayer games alone from time to time, but singleplayer games rarely keep my attention for long). I like learning new things, having new experiences, sharing what I've learned with others who feel the same. But none of these things makes me feel any where near as strongly as my love for my tulpas. Seeing them happy, spending time with them, seeing the things they've done while fronting, and it'sbeensolongohmygodjustletmehavethisalready surely lucid dreaming with them will combine all of those things too. The only thing that can match that feeling would be loving another person, which is absolutely a possibility. I could never love another person more than I love my tulpas, but if all went well I could surely love them just as much. I'm not opposed to that at all, though I'm not actively seeking it right now.

On the subject of my love for my tulpas and how it can be a rather strong emotion when I'm focused on it: It seems like it manifests in two main ways. A given here is that I don't normally feel strong emotions for very long at all, maybe just a me thing. First, when I'm actually with them, it's just pure happiness. That's that seeing them happy and such stuff. I do actually feel that when I see things they've done while fronting, too. Seeing posts they've made reminiscing on their experiences is one of the few things that really pulls my heartstrings. Meeting them in lucid dreams would probably be the greatest culmination of those feelings in my life, so much so I'm convinced if I woke up from excitement (I've definitely heard this is a thing for beginning lucid dreamers) after simply seeing them in the wonderland, I'd be ecstatic and heavily motivated to keep pursuing lucid dreaming for as long as it took.

On the other hand, there seems to be another direction my heartstrings can be pulled, which usually leads to my depressive moods like in my last post. It comes from the same place, my love for my tulpas, usually from seeing pictures of them (last night's was actually just because of the picture in this video, followed by the much stronger feelings in the song I posted after), or posts where they talk about their desires for something, or just because I'm in that sort of mood. It almost always leads to me being depressed at my lack of success/ability to be with them, or for them to have those desires fulfilled, or so on. Something I never realized until shortly before writing this post was the big difference between the two situations: In the former my tulpas are present, and in the latter they are not. Lucilyn was able to cheer me up of course when I went to bed last night, though I forget what exactly she said. I just know I couldn't be un-happy with her being so cheerful and wanting me to be happy too. Thinking back, nearly every time I've been in that state/mood I was brought out of it by one of them. Naturally that supports my theory on why I feel one way or the other in similar situations.

Anyways, this isn't a commonplace thing by the way, I don't get really happy|sad every time I see a picture of my tulpas or something. Just when I'm feeling particularly sensitive I guess, or when a strong enough stimulus comes up. Or when I've just run my current well of motivation dry, typically (ie exclusively) from repeated failure to have a lucid dream. But it happens every so often, most recent times of which I believe were recorded in my Progress Report. I'm unclear on how related that is to my depressive states from thinking about the old Flandre/unsanity stuff.

Double-anyways, my head hurts from how little sleep I got plus how sore my neck's been today, which I imagine is from trying to reposition my head/sleeping mask so the REM detector might work. I don't think it did, but then, I might not have ever gotten back to sleep. I don't remember. I'd write more but my head really does hurt, so I'm going to sleep now. May or may not use the mask later tonight.

Thank you guys for reading this thread, I guess. You don't exactly cheer us on every step of the way, but knowing someone reads this at all kind of helps, and we don't really need outside motivation in the first place. It should be pretty obvious by now we're as motivated as can be by each other. Me, as much motivation as my mind allows at a time anyway. The important thing is that it never fades in the long-term, even if I burn out over and over. You can tell the motivation should be strong because nothing else has ever managed that in my life.



Oh yeah, I was going to address the (from an outsider to tulpamancy's perspective) apparent stereotypical and blatant waifuism/weeb-ness it wouldn't be hard to see in my posts, whenever their forms are brought up. All I can say is it's not waifuism because I see them as people and not characters I idolize/love, and whether or not the forms are anime/weeb-y nothing else about them is. They really are just people, whose forms happened to be inspired by the Touhou universe (which in all practicality is more of a series of novels than anime or even games - a lot of the world building is simply in text) and the massive amount of fanart for their characters. But I dissociated them from their Touhou influences seven years ago. They're no different from "original" tulpas at this point.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
11-02-2017, 08:37 AM
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Ido Offline
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RE: Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
Too bad the REM Dreamer doesn't really work for you. And sorry I made it seem like a bad investment even before it arrived. But don't give up yet or I'll have to make 2 more 'Invest in Eastern Polan' posters to complete the series. And I have no time for this so don't disappoint me!

Luminesce Wrote:No one's "rude" enough to say such things in someone's own thread, but, nobody's pointed out I might put too much value in my tulpas. Not like I love them too much (that's not a thing), but that I'm too invested in getting to be with them, that it's not really healthy and I should diversify my goals. To you non-existent stranger I say, fair points, but I'm well aware of my relationship to my tulpas and my life as a whole.
Hey, hey, hey!
I said that and host too. Maybe I wasn't rude enough so here I go. You had it coming!
Just don't get me wrong, I really like you guys otherwise I wouldn't bother to post. And while I'm in no position to tell you how to live your life, I would be selfish by not sharing my thoughts. This is all the advice I've got left for you.
Deal with it

Point is, I think you're seein this the wrong way. It's not about moving your priorities away from your tulpas but about what you manage to achieve together in the long run. Sustainability.
You may be fine with your situation but it's not 'bout you, man. It's about them. If you really love your tulpas ask yourself this: How would you like them to live in 10, 20, 30 years? We both know you will not be able to continue your current neet princess lifestyle indefinitely. Sooner or later you'll have to move out of your comfort zone and face reality. And it's not gonna get any easier the longer you wait. Plus what you are doing is not exactly ideal in both a physiological and psychological sense and will eventually have an impact on you health and lifespan if you just keep going. Meaning their health and lifespan. Think about that.

Same for you tulpas:
What are your life goals? And no, 'I just want my host to be happy' aka let him do as he pleases is not enough. It's like taking drugs to escape RL problems. There may be a dull warmth or even euphoria for a while but eventually shit will hit the fan. Big time. If you love your host you need to be able to push him through rehab. No matter how much it hurts. I mean you guys can even switch which should help a lot with getting rid of bad habits. But you need to fucking do it. Now.

What is Ido even talking about?
Main concern is of course your completely fucked up not-even-remotely circadian rhythm. Living against your natural sleep cycle is extremely unhealthy. But if it tumbles uncontrollably anyway there's something seriously wrong that needs to be fixed. Have you ever seen a doctor about that? No idea how your shitty US health care even works but in Germany they'd put you in a sleep lab to see what exactly is going on in your head both while you're awake and asleep for some days. An excellent chance to find out about your REM cycles and why you're unable to lucid dream. Might very well have some deeper-rooted cause.
A completely random sleep-wake circle also severely impacts any interactions with your environment and leads to a shitload of secondary problems. Like functioning in society. Which is, uh, not so good.

Some factors beneficial for a long, healthy and fulfilled life:
.)self-transcendence aka devoting yourself to an altruistic goal you believe in
.)social interaction - IRL not some online friends
.)self-discipline aka putting off rewards in favor of long-term achievements
.)active lifestyle, regular physical exercise
.)interaction with a natural environment aka going outside, getting plenty of daylight
.)balanced diet

Shit that'll fuck you up for good:
.)extrinsically motivated or selfish goals, no goals
.)living isolated
.)addictions aka aiming for short-time satisfaction
.)unnatural lifestyle aka staying indoors, light at night, artificial/polluted environments
.)inactivity, lack of physical and mental exercise
.)excess media consumption
.)malnutrition

No shit Sherlock!
Yet few are able to follow these simple rules.

Again this is not about what you like. It's about what will most likely benefit you, your dear ones and your entire community. What it means to be a grown, responsible and self-aware human. Living a true and honorable life.
This is MY goal. This is what I do, This is who I am. I'm in no way claiming to be 100% successful with it because my host is a weak and lazy faggot as well but I will do whatever I can to steer his life into this direction. If necessary by force. Even if it hurts me, I will do what's my duty. Because I love him.

So anyway, it's up to you, I just think you have great potential, would be a shame to let it go to waste. Fix your sleep schedule, move out and find an interesting job, contribute to society. All of you together of course. Yes, it'll be a big change and no it ain't gonna be easy. But it's guaranteed to shake up things thoroughly and will bring you even closer together. Being able to rely on each other in tough times is a great and deeply moving experience. The sheer amount of new sensations and new environments might benefit your lucid dreaming abilities as well. If you just continue your current life nothing will ever change. At least not for the better.

TL;DR
Wanna spend quality time with your tulpas, now and for the rest of your life?
Your best chance is to dramatically change your habits. Get a life, starting today. No matter what's the outcome, it'll be a win for all of you.
Do it for them!

Super Girls don't cry
11-03-2017, 02:45 AM
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Luminesce Offline
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Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
Huh, and here I thought I'd be getting those cheering-ons, not inviting opposition lol. I'll say right now you made some assumptions about my life, a given, but a lot more about how aware I am of literally all of the problems/suggestions you brought up, but I'll reply to each productively. I'll never not appreciate offered help.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: Too bad the REM Dreamer doesn't really work for you.
I don't see why it won't work, the only problem is it's not managing to go off kind of at all while I'm asleep. Raising the sensitivity is the common solution to this, but since that's not working, I believe it's the positioning. I still have plenty of ideas on how to fix this. Rather not mess with the actual mask yet, but there is some foam that could possibly be in the way of the sensor, and cutting a bit out (or heck, the entire bottom part below the eyes, as it doesn't even touch my face) might make it more open to many different positions. For example. But yes, I too am sorry it wasn't an immediate cure-all to our lucid dreaming problems.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: You may be fine with your situation but it's not 'bout you, man. It's about them. If you really love your tulpas ask yourself this: How would you like them to live in 10, 20, 30 years? We both know you will not be able to continue your current neet princess lifestyle indefinitely. Sooner or later you'll have to move out of your comfort zone and face reality. And it's not gonna get any easier the longer you wait. Plus what you are doing is not exactly ideal in both a physiological and psychological sense and will eventually have an impact on you health and lifespan if you just keep going. Meaning their health and lifespan. Think about that.

Your link is broken (hotlink), but I can tell by the tags you meant to link this. Nice one. Anyways, for the sake of getting into a point you intended to get across, that statement was fine, but towards that statement itself I have to say, kind of not applicable/off-base. My tulpas are usually more fine with things than I am, excluding Scarlet who's never fine with how my life is and Tewi who only holds herself to her standards. While I will address the more general life concerns you bring up, I have to point out that "This is fine" thing only applies to this subject in this thread, ie lucid dreaming. It's utterly unrelated to the rest of my life. Well, you don't think it is because you think my sleep schedule stuff is tied to lucid dreaming somehow, but that's far from the case.

Actually yeah, it's really hard to reply on the subject of tulpas when your statements only really apply to my actual lifestyle honestly. I'll talk about that when you bring it up more directly in a second.

But yeah all that stuff at the end there, while it may or may not apply to my actual lifestyle, is way way separated from anything to do with my tulpas.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: Same for you tulpas:
What are your life goals? And no, 'I just want my host to be happy' aka let him do as he pleases is not enough. It's like taking drugs to escape RL problems. There may be a dull warmth or even euphoria for a while but eventually shit will hit the fan. Big time. If you love your host you need to be able to push him through rehab. No matter how much it hurts. I mean you guys can even switch which should help a lot with getting rid of bad habits. But you need to fucking do it. Now.

Actually, it's more "I just want all of us to be happy" for the most part. Then some of them have other goals after that. You really are talking about having a NEET lifestyle in general though, if you think that's related to my attention to my tulpas you're still way off-base. But let's continue on the assumption you're just talking about our combined lives/livelihoods. For the thousandth time I barely spend any time with my tulpas to contribute to the NEET-lifestyle, but pretending you know I otherwise more or less live like that - jesus, rehab? I hope you meant the act and not the place, lol. I've got a heck of a lot more control over my life than for that to be necessary.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: What is Ido even talking about?
Main concern is of course your completely fucked up not-even-remotely circadian rhythm. Living against your natural sleep cycle is extremely unhealthy. But if it tumbles uncontrollably anyway there's something seriously wrong that needs to be fixed. Have you ever seen a doctor about that? No idea how your shitty US health care even works but in Germany they'd put you in a sleep lab to see what exactly is going on in your head both while you're awake and asleep for some days. An excellent chance to find out about your REM cycles and why you're unable to lucid dream. Might very well have some deeper-rooted cause.
A completely random sleep-wake circle also severely impacts any interactions with your environment and leads to a shitload of secondary problems. Like functioning in society. Which is, uh, not so good.

I mean realtalk, if you really care about my "circadian rhythm" situation that bad, I can lay it out for you. You think I don't know what's going on after like nine years of paying attention to it, and all the research I've done on sleep and dreaming? Maybe you read that tiny statement that something might be weird with my sleep cycles because of a single time I had a decent quality dream in only 20 minutes. Considering I'm slightly conscious between every REM cycle (during the period where people usually just roll over or whatever, I roll over or whatever and can check the clock if I'm not feeling lazy - a habit I established like five years ago just to be aware of how/much I sleep), I'd say I'm pretty aware of how normal or not normal it is. And it's pretty dang normal. Half of my problem in lucid dreaming is my sleep functions work too flawlessly, preventing any tampering on my part to induce lucidity. But I can tell you right now if you think I have health problems because of some sort of sleep disorder, that's not the case.

I learned a lot about the quality of your sleep and for how long you do it from Steve Pavlina, who's an inexplicably amazing person I can't begin to credit enough. The type of guy who, thanks to his research into time management, self-discipline, and working with different mindsets, managed to graduate with two degrees in three semesters. I mean, he's done some crazy stuff just to learn about how the mind works and how to be as productive in life as possible (with a focus on fulfillment, not as in numbers efficiency). Anyways, using what I learned from him, I can say my brain is more or less conditioned to think it should be able to sleep for 9 to 10 hours on average, and whenever it wants. The circadian rhythms part that would decide "when it wants" was at normal times is obviously thrown off by how much time I spend on the computer. (Un?)fortunately, it's not a side effect but a conscious choice on my part. I'm a large proponent of F.lux, which actually just came out with a massive new update that increased its features and customizability a ton, so I recommend it even more highly than before. As we speak I have it manually disabled, because the distorted color bugs me when I'm going to be up for at least five more hours. Which I am, because my sleep schedule does not coincide with sunset (which it's set to work off of right now) at all.

You could say my sleeping in (and therefore, brain's assumption sleeping for 9-10 hours is fine) is due to my lack of a required schedule in the first place, since I'm not in school anymore. I do wish I had had F.lux during highschool though. 8 hours asleep, 16 hours awake leads to a 24 hour day and thus a consistent sleeping schedule; 9-10 hours asleep would require 14-15 hours awake, which for all sorts of reasons would be bad for my health if I could even manage. That's why my sleeping schedule tends to drift forwards over time. A lack of a necessary schedule, followed by staying up an appropriate amount of time for how much I sleep. And all of this could be considered a conscious choice, because the internet really doesn't care what type of schedule you hold, and it's where I spend most my time.

So yeah, if we were going to talk about that, you can see why I acknowledge your criticisms yet don't relate them to my tulpas at all. There's no relation. And "solving" the problem of not needing to be on a schedule (which.. I prefer..) is relying on the totally-subjective-illogical-and-assumptive idea that my current lifestyle isn't ""productive"". How could you come to that conclusion? /s

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: Again this is not about what you like. It's about what will most likely benefit you, your dear ones and your entire community. What it means to be a grown, responsible and self-aware human. Living a true and honorable life.
This is MY goal. This is what I do, This is who I am. I'm in no way claiming to be 100% successful with it because my host is a weak and lazy faggot as well but I will do whatever I can to steer his life into this direction. If necessary by force. Even if it hurts me, I will do what's my duty. Because I love him.

So anyway, it's up to you, I just think you have great potential, would be a shame to let it go to waste. Fix your sleep schedule, move out and find an interesting job, contribute to society. All of you together of course. Yes, it'll be a big change and no it ain't gonna be easy. But it's guaranteed to shake up things thoroughly and will bring you even closer together. Being able to rely on each other in tough times is a great and deeply moving experience. The sheer amount of new sensations and new environments might benefit your lucid dreaming abilities as well. If you just continue your current life nothing will ever change. At least not for the better.

TL;DR
Wanna spend quality time with your tulpas, now and for the rest of your life?
Your best chance is to dramatically change your habits. Get a life, starting today. No matter what's the outcome, it'll be a win for all of you.
Do it for them!

I'm not sure how to say both "Yeah, duh" and "That's just your main priority in life, and only secondary to me right now". I don't disagree and couldn't since that's pretty cookie-cutter "A fulfilling life". But to be honest, I still have the rest of my life to do all that. I could see how you might think a rougher, less comfort-zoney lifestyle could help with my goals, but as far as I'm concerned what I have to work with now is preferable. I'm really just riding out my life and dealing with things as I need to, which at this exact moment doesn't require moving out and "finding a job" (I can work for my older brother whenever I actually need money right now, but finding a job really refers more to a career). Honestly, I appreciate the time I have now, because if I had to worry about housing myself and holding a day-job, I'm afraid I wouldn't actually have the time to spend "on" my tulpas. And I do still need time: I have to learn to lucid dream, obviously! Can you even imagine my current situation actually being less conducive to learning to lucid dream than having to get up after 8 hours every day to go to work? Working with my brother makes me a butt-ton of money, but it's an on-off job for a reason (working fair stands, as fairs come and go). I had no time to spend with my tulpas, and I mean with my tulpas during the last time I was doing so. This is serious, because I've always for whatever reason paid special attention to my tulpas when away from home. Vacations were time to spend every moment I could with them. But when I'd get back from work at midnight, when the least we could do was have Flan lie imposed in bed with me, we didn't even get to talk before I passed out and had to get up early again. It was kind of horrible in that sense, since I had assumed living away from home I'd have a ton of time to spend with my tulpas as opposed to, say, my desktop/games/online friends.

But yeah, lack of a long-term schedule suits me best in almost all ways. I could not stand working a day-job for more than a month, having to sleep and get up consistently and spend 8+ hours every day working. That would drive me crazy. I've always planned to either work online (and/or: "From home"/"Self-employed" sorts of jobs, where the work needs to be done, but not at a specific time every single day. I can do a lot of work, and as I realized from working with my brother it doesn't actually have to be at home. But I can't feel locked into doing the same thing over and over forever. Your ideas on a basic, fulfilling life seem pretty mainstream, so I assume this screams lazy/NEET or whatever to you, but.. well, I guess you don't have much reason to take my word for it, but there are absolutely tons of jobs and careers conducive to this sort of lifestyle. I mean, that sort of. My current one is very NEET. But what I mean is, day-jobs working X hours a day with the weekend off are absolutely the most common and easy to find; they are not however by any means my only option. Feel free to tell me to look for more jobs/career that suits this on-off/short-term-schedules style though.)

I'm well aware of how strange/lack-of sleep schedules and socialization mix, again thanks to Steve Pavlina. Despite polyphasic sleep eventually working very well for him, allowing him way more time to be all sorts of more productive than the average person, he actually went back to "bear sleep" as he sometimes calls monophasic sleep for social reasons. He just couldn't stand how a non-regular sleep schedule affected his social life. I followed him through the entire process of course, I can't express just how much I've learned from this guy. If I cared about my IRL social life right now I'd keep a semi-regular sleep schedule. I don't, though. Not interested in socialization for socialization's sake, it has to come with something. A job or a hobby or something.

Speaking of hobbies, rather than write more paragraphs I'll just say it would obviously be way healthier if I had other IRL hobbies in a multitude of ways. Can't argue with that.

(11-03-2017, 02:45 AM)Ido Wrote: Some factors beneficial for a long, healthy and fulfilled life:
.)self-transcendence aka devoting yourself to an altruistic goal you believe in
.)social interaction - IRL not some online friends
.)self-discipline aka putting off rewards in favor of long-term achievements
.)active lifestyle, regular physical exercise
.)interaction with a natural environment aka going outside, getting plenty of daylight
.)balanced diet

Shit that'll fuck you up for good:
.)extrinsically motivated or selfish goals, no goals
.)living isolated
.)addictions aka aiming for short-time satisfaction
.)unnatural lifestyle aka staying indoors, light at night, artificial/polluted environments
.)inactivity, lack of physical and mental exercise
.)excess media consumption
.)malnutrition

1 I have pretty humanitarian values that will absolutely direct the sort of career I hope to settle into and likely what I end up doing with my money once basic necessities are covered in the long run. I'm actually fairly minimalistic when it comes to spending money, hence why I'm not exactly strap for cash and never will be. Aside from those student loans, easily the biggest mistake of my life in most conceivable ways. Should've gone to community college. Anyways, outside of a decent computer and internet access, any money that doesn't end up going to housing and food will go to my crippling debt a decent cause I'm sure. Since I don't know how much that's actually going to be yet I can't make strict plans, but helping out my family with their own financial matters is number one on the list no matter what I make.

2 I have no real desire for socialization outside of what I get online, from this forum to talking to friends to whatever other interaction I get with the millions of strangers I meet. No duh, this doesn't meet the basic requirement for face time. I'm not afraid of socialization either, and any I end up getting will be a result of my living conditions - where I live, where I work, any hobbies I might pick up. Living in Mormonville USA has not opened up many options the last 10 or so years, I really preferred California.

I'd actually hoped for a while to live in Japan with an online source of income - immediately lol, believe it or not, it's got nothing to do with any reason you can probably think of someone wanting to live there. I like the environment; the countryside, the peacefulness, quiet, rain and nature. I watched some vlogs by TakeSomeCrime (I barely ever mention him anymore, classic huge inspiration in my life..) where he just filmed random stuff and places he did and went in Japan, and I fell in love. Can't link them because they're Patron-only videos on Patreon unfortunately. He was in the real rural areas the entire time, with his sister who's fluent as a guide. And I kid you not, the things I saw were a better "wonderland" to me than my literal wonderland.

Never a solid plan of course, a far-off-in-the-future thing, but I really do believe I could cut all my ties to my "NEET" lifestyle, spending so much time online and playing video games and such. An anime with countless parallels to my tulpas and I is actually what originally put the idea in my mind. Though mostly only the start/flashbacks in the anime itself are the scenario I'm talking about, you could watch the just the first episode if you were interested. https://9anime.to/watch/kyousou-giga-tv.zlwp

So, that's probably never going to happen, at least not soon enough to be worth planning for. But it's still the best idea I have to work with for solving most problems with my current lifestyle: Find somewhere I don't feel so secluded from the world, and just enjoy existing there. While I'm hardly looking to be a monk or hermit, I really am at peace with the world for the most part. Outside of lucid dreaming with my tulpas, a desire that's been around since they helped me actually appreciate being alive, I've never had many others that I wouldn't be at peace with myself with until accomplishing. Also, I'd be doing her a disservice if I didn't mention Tewi's life goal outside of caring for us - read her signature, or her profile bio. I don't doubt for a moment she would absolutely be happy living every day the same with nothing but the world going about its business around her, her only real pastime walking around in nature. Probably some sort of forest. Honestly, since I don't have any particular "life" goals outside of appreciating every moment, I don't see why I wouldn't enjoy a similar situation. Without a full on wonderland scenario like I've seen in TSC's videos though, I probably would need the internet to keep from getting too lonely. But exercise and other health things counter to my current situation wouldn't be a problem regardless.

If it gives the idea any credit that it's not just an unrealistic fantasy - I actually grew up in a forest-town. First half of my life or so anyways. Spent my days walking around in nature, catching lizards and playing with friends, just appreciating life. Now, that forest-town has had some deforestation/forestfireissueslol over the years, my most personal proof of climate change being a serious problem. But it's not totally unreasonable to think I could end up living there again. A lot of my family still does. Honestly, after having looked into life in Japan enough to safely opt out of that huge potential mess, I never really thought about moving back to my hometown. More likely was us (close family) moving from Utah to Oregon (or Washington), which as far as I can tell has its share of trees and rain, all I really want.

You know, I've kind of lost interest in the rest of this post. I'm liking the idea of moving somewhere closer to family than Japan that's still got forest and rain. Vitamin D deficiency runs in the family, so I already take supplements for that. I feel like if you're familiar with the states you might point out how the crazy amounts of rain there can cause depression or something. I feel like if you know me at all you'll know that's not a problem.

Rain, forests, happiness, being together. Those are the combined life goals/living conditions of everyone in this system. Maybe I should be looking into some more realistic, sooner-than-ten-years options to meet them.


Anyways. Thanks for the concern and attempts to rustle my current views. Nutrition has been on my mind constantly the last few years, my diet's improved significantly. I need a better living location before consistent socialization and hobbies can really be established, which outside of money issues my family is all for. I'm trying to sum everything up here, but my thoughts are getting kinda floaty. I'll put one more last relevant/productive thing here, then. I've been thinking about encouraging Scarlet to be more active, as she's more or less been apathetic to our lifestyle (and, you know, how not-her-life it is), but otherwise has strong motivations to live quite a bit healthier than me. I.. still can't be made to regularly go to the gym or something, but if we start switching more frequently like I intend to, I might not have to. Oh, not like "Go to the gym because you're fat and unhealthy", I'm not that bad, it's just something she'll want to do. I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but the only thing I've ever seen Scarlet show desire in aside from keeping the body healthy is an interest in rock climbing.. walls? Who knows if she'd actually end up really rock climbing (I think I'd have to veto that), but she showed interest years ago when our PE class went on a field trip to an indoor rock climbing place. I won't have any part in this stuff becoming a reality personally, but the potential cogs are turning..


Hey, that had nothing to do with lucid dreaming. This entire thread is a small testament to the fact I'll never give up trying to meet my tulpas in a lucid dream, so don't bother trying to dissuade me there.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
11-03-2017, 05:54 AM
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Ido Offline
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RE: Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon
Heh, I have no intention to dissuade you from lucid dreaming, just trying to help you get there with a holistic approach and think beyond it. Therefore it IS still kinda ontopic. And I wanted to shake up your cozy little bubble. Because it's actually a trap

Of course I have no idea about your life, I can only guess. Which is why RL friends who actually know you are so dang important. They can provide a perspective you don't or don't want to see. My point was, as you're still young and flexible you can change towards a sustainable lifestyle with small managable steps. Without too much hassle. While securing enough time for your tulpas and lucid dreaming. And you know what? That can even be fun!
But you gotta have a good strategy for that and start now, not in 5 or 10 years when the water's already up to your neck. Ah well, at least that would be my approach.

So, sorry if I put you in a bad mood but it was a necessary intervention. I believe you can do so much more with your life, and I'm pretty damn sure your tulpas would appreciate something new for a change too. Isn't that a win-win situation?

Back to even more ontopic, I assume you have discussed the issues with the REM dreamer with others in the LD community? Any suggestions from there?

Super Girls don't cry
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2017, 10:54 PM by Ido.)
11-05-2017, 10:53 PM
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Lucilyn Offline
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Lucilyn's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Fun
we don't have a forum account on dreamviews no, and we don't really need help. Like nothing anyone could tell us would probably help when they have less information than we do. Just gotta not be lazy. All they could do is guess at what the problems are when we like, can actually know you know? I'm sure Tewi can figure everything out, and be motivated to do it too. We're gonna try and start switching a lot more often now so she'll get a chance to do that too.

I don't really tell Lumi how to live his life, we kind of keep our life in a constant state of going-well and deal with anything as it comes up. Like literally when we need money we go work etc. lol. I guess we're kinda waiting on IRL conditions to change (mom's finishing up upgrading her college degree before we move) before "settling down" into a consistent job or hobbies and stuff. But that says nothing for exercise, we should dance more! It's fun and good exercise and we like doing it so why not? It seems like it's only me that dances anymore. And for going outside idek there's nowhere to go and nothing to do there, also it's ~snow time so idk. We're simultaneously not really trying to change things but also not cemented into how they are, I think we deal with drastic changes really really well. Like prefer to stay the same but adapt fine when it's not. So yes I guess life-wise we do wait for things to be necessary but then we do them without complaining y'know?

and you didn't put lumi in a bad mood, at least for that post in this thread. If you're talking about our PR idk what happened there, but he's happier now because he's spending more time with us and not worrying about stuff. I think that switching often will make sure all of us deal with the things in our combined life that we're good at dealing with.

Also idk if we're gonna be doing the REM-Dreamer stuff just yet but our dream recall is getting really good! And that's with no effort on Lumi's part, I can't even imagine if I get to be the one who sleeps! Like it's either me or Tewi, Tewi for the REM-Dreamer but she's said before I have way better luck with dreaming stuff so maybe it should be me? idk

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
11-05-2017, 11:45 PM
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Lucilyn Offline
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Lucilyn's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Fun
Christmas update! Sort of, more like my not succeeding in getting Lumi and Flan (and all of us) a lucid dream for Christmas. So it's been almost like two months huh? Makes it feel like we weren't doing anything, which we weren't for some of it, but not a whole 2 months... Anyways yeah I've been trying really hard the last week or so to get Lumi (and Flan (and all of us)) a gift in the form of a lucid dream for either Christmas or his birthday, with is January 2nd. I guess I didn't make Christmas, but it's been made clear to me many times that not succeeding at this is always to be expected, so I'm not really surprised. And like thinking that is supposed to encourage, I'm not disheartened at all! It's like they abolished failure and left only eventual success, so to me it's just like I have infinite chances to succeed and "not succeeding" just means it'll happen another time. So let's put this one up again!



Such perfect lyrics <3 {No seriously wow, fits this post extremely well apparently!}

Progress! Report, that is, reporting progress. Progress too! To report in my progress reporting! So my plan was to work on dream recall really hard for a little while - check, I guess? They aren't as clear as I want but I got to the point where I remembered at least one part of the dream I had every single time I woke up, so like a bunch in a night. Second, getting used to the REM-Dreamer! I didn't even bother turning it on while working on dream recall because dealing with it making it harder to sleep was half the point of wearing it, so I got more used to having it on I guess and not worrying about actually having it -turned- on. But the night before Christmas and the night of Christmas (last night) I did keep it turned on after ~5 hours of sleep. It's less that it makes it harder to sleep (it always will wake us up just a little bit though) and more it's just hard to guess how long I should set the timer for. I think I was doing 20 minutes at first (hours 5-7) and then 30 minutes after (hours 8-10) based on how long our sleep cycles were. But it seemed like I had 2+ 45 minute sleep cycles in a row, which made it weird. Like 45 minutes from the last time I looked at the clock to when I woke up and looked at it again. That's when I was setting it to 20 minutes. Oh wait, that was all part 3. Part 3, doing the thing! I increased our percent of success with the REM-Dreamer from 0% to, like, 35%!

Last night I think the REM-Dreamer went off 5 times, two of which were after I'd woken up (its sensitivity is set to 9/9 so just opening my eyelids apparently makes it go off). Something similar, bit less, the night before. Part Progress! I had a dream both nights where I successfully ignored the REM-Dreamer flashing in the dream! I'm pretty sure it eventually got bright enough (gets brighter as you ignore it) it woke me up both times, but it definitely wasn't because it was too bright, it's 'cause I ignored it in the dream (fire alarms are now twice as annoying with like actually painfully loud sound AND lights!), and it's better that it eventually wakes us up than just lets us get away with that. Although like two of the fourish times I tried to turn off the REM-Dreamer once I was awake and it went off, I couldn't. Like two I did the move-your-eyes-up-and-down thing and it was like Ok!beep, the other two no matter how hard I tried it didn't work. So the sensor being too far off to detect REM is still a thing. But see, I don't think that'll ever ruin a lucid dream, because it only doesn't work when it can't detect REM, so it won't have caused a lucid dream either, and if it did we can turn it off. That's kinda reassuring I guess! The two times I couldn't turn it off I think my eyelids set it off but it couldn't see my actual pupils or whatever it senses.

So yeah, from zero to not zero progress, finally! Even if it's really inconsistent (and there's nothing we can do without somehow modifying the mask to change that, I did the same thing lining up the sensor to my eye every time I went back to sleep), the goal is still just one lucid dream first, because.. well, different reasons. For Lumi it's 'cause his life-goal take on lucid dreaming is he just wants to hug all of us, so obviously more than once is great but once will count. For Tewi, she actually wants to establish consistency, but we think having one real lucid dream will make future lucid dreams way easier, so she's counting on that too. And I don't worry about the future! One lucid dream is all that can ever happen yo! And after that, we'll have another 1 lucid dream, and another and another. Or not, dunno, can't know, must try regardless! Oh and I said the gift was also for Flan. She's kinda too passive to say she has a goal of one thing or another, but she consistently says the thing she cares about most is being with Lumi, so I know consistently lucid dreaming with him would be perfect for her. So even though it's not technically her goal (she maintains Lumi's goals as her own) I consider it her goal. And of course Reisen just wants us to all be happy, but ofcourse ofcourse she doesn't really have desires or goals exactly so she's just being supportive because it's what we want. But maybe her part will be the most important, 'cause if we don't ever end up lucid dreaming that attitude is gonna be our saving grace I guess. Oh since I'm talking about our goals or whatever, I shoulda mentioned Tewi's goal is "our best interests" overall, I guess. She wants to make sure our lives are "Happy, safe and fulfilling", and I guess lucid dreaming falls under fulfilling for the most part. Yep, happy too, but I mostly get the fulfilling vibe. She knows all of us would just feel better in all sorts of ways if we could be together in lucid dreams and that's why learning to lucid dream consistently is her goal here I think. Also because she shares our goals so she cares equally for her own part of that and for Lumi's like life goal.

This thread sure is easy and fun to just ramble in. Normally we'd be scared we were like being boring or something, but since this thread has 16,000 views by now we just assume you guys will read what you wanna right? Well read this: I still plan on getting Lumi a lucid dream for/before his birthday on January 2nd! If he gets to lucid dream before the year starts, then he can start thinking about all the other things he wants to do in life with that out of the way, like a new year's resolution sorta thing. And if not welllllll guess it'll happen eventually?

Having a plan in case you fail is always a good thing, but since there's no stakes here (nothing to lose) we don't really have to worry about failure, so aside from acknowledging it might not happen at any specific time we can just keep focusing on the next night! (BTW I've fixed our schedule to waking up at 6AM and going to sleep.. between 5PM and 9PM I guess, but I always wake up at 6 either way)

There's a pretty good chance the first post of the next page will be our first lucid dream success in my opinion! Unless someone else posts first!... Pls don't?

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
(This post was last modified: 12-26-2017, 06:53 PM by Lucilyn.)
12-26-2017, 06:52 PM
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