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"Accidental" tulpa theories.


Moose

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I'm curious as to the general population's thoughts on "accidental" tulpa related matters. So I'm going to post my own thoughts on it, and we'll talk, and whatever. Keep in mind that I'm obviously not certain on this, they're theories. If you think I'm wrong, talk. If you think I'm right, talk. Or we'll not talk, and the thread will die. Either way works.

 

From what I've seen and understand, I think that there's three ways a tulpa is "accidentally" made.

 

Class A: The type that I would call an accidental tulpa without the quotes. A person is working on something, and accidentally turns it into a tulpa. Say they're talking to something that's not a tulpa, that they know is not a tulpa... and yet they're talking to it a lot. I don't know, a concept, a part of their wonderland, their subconscious in general, or something or someone that's far away/untalk-to-able in reality land, a character you created for a story or RP that you keep talking to and thinking about, even though it's "just a character", or whatever. Much like with a normal tulpa's creation, the mass of talking to it, directing your speech at it rather than at nothing or yourself, eventually shapes it into being, because our minds are silly. Someone who's already had a tulpa is more susceptible to such a thing, because they've already worn down their mind's natural anti-insane defenses stopping anything from talking back (or at least consciously hearing it talk). Otherwise, such a thing would happen more often. Of course... even without such things as tulpas, some people hear voices anyway. I would imagine that such voices or thoughtforms are either that much stronger, strong enough to break through the "properly defended" mind, or are part of an "ill" mind in general. But anyway, whatever you're talking to starts talking back. And WHOOPS, TUPPER!

 

Class B: What I'd tentatively refer to as subconscious tulpas. Actually, I'm not even sure I'd TECHNICALLY call this one a tulpa, because a tulpa isn't shaped this way. You didn't shape it, it didn't come into being because you were talking to it or mass-thinking about it... it came from some other part of your mind. Some form of mental distress or lack of well-being, some sort of very strong subconcious desire, whatever it may be. Again, just with a Class A, having a previous tulpa will make it that much easier for such a thoughtform to be heard by you. A person without such an altered thought process would be much less likely to hear them, assuming in this point that such a thing would occur without tulpas even being known.

 

Edit: Since there's been confusion about what I mean, what I'm saying, in not so many words, about Class B would be some form of natural craziness that would have been dismissed/outright not heard normally. But because they're able to get through, and because of your thoughts on tulpa, you attribute it to an accidental tulpa. Should it not be here, or only here as a side note saying "Don't think that this is an accidental a tulpa, but close enough"? Perhaps.

 

Class C: What I'd call a mistaken tulpa. And don't take this the wrong way or be insulted, but I'll be blunt about it. This would be something that only people entertaining thoughtforms would form. You hear something in your head, just a one off thing (or two or three off...), but having tulpas, you ask your other tulpas "Was that you?" "[Nope, it wasn't me.]" "It... it wasn't me either... could... could it have been someone else?". In this case (and this specific case, even though such a thought process could hold true and it IS another thoughtform already, but that would be a different case), no, it's just a one off thought... but you mistake it for a tulpa, and talk to it, and build it up. And after it's sentient, because of the way you're thinking about it, it may very well have false memories of it's origins. That's not just an accidental thing, mind you. Intentionally created tulpas can have false memories as well. Hell, you're probably aware that otherwise "normal" people can have false memories... more often than you'd think, actually. Think I'm calling your tulpa a fake? Offended by the fact that I dare suggest that your accidental tulpa could not have actually started as a tulpa? Don't be. Regardless of whether it was at the start, or only became one later... it is now. I am in no way going to claim that such a tulpa is worse than another kind due to it's origins. And that's all that matters, in the end, unless you're needlessly curious, or want a proper understanding for understanding's (and future progress's/other mancer's) sake.

 

To wrap up this intro, so proper discussion can start, the reason I started thinking on this and looking into it was because I recently, after more than a year of forcing, had one of my own. To get to the point on that... I believe he's what I would refer to as a Class B... but I can not claim to be immune to being wrong. I could be wrong, he could be a Class C. Or I could be misunderstanding all of this entirely. Who's to say?

 

Alright, wall of text over. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, or tell me why you think I'm right, or that I'm only slightly right, feel free to discuss it however you wish (short of senseless flaming, of course).

Discuss o_q

 

 

Edit: (before actually posting though =P)

We talked about this on #tulpa, and Chupi suggested a possible fourth class.

Class D: Straight from Goopi, because I'm too lazy to alter it properly: "in making a tulpa, you're essentially taking some thoughts or thought processes and breaking them off into another being. I suspect occasionally some thoughts or even whole trains of thought get stuck in between you and the tulpa and end up getting pushed off into another tulpa."

And then it snowballs from there @_@

Rejected traits were also discussed, but I know nothing of this sort a tulpa, so I'll leave discussion on that to you fine folks.

 

 

Erm... Discuss. Again.

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A: A real tulpa. Effort was put into it, so tulpa was made.

 

B: I don't really get what you're getting at here, but not a tulpa.

 

C: Not a tulpa. Overactive imagination.

 

D: Not a tulpa. Simple organizing of thoughts into a more palatable form, like angel and devil on shoulder.

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I remember discussing class A with some peeps a while ago, about how someone religious could unintentionally form a tulpa through an hour of dedicated prayer a day.

An abstract, all-encompassing love is still a love, nonetheless.

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A: A real tulpa. Effort was put into it, so tulpa was made.

 

B: I don't really get what you're getting at here, but not a tulpa.

 

C: Not a tulpa. Overactive imagination.

 

D: Not a tulpa. Simple organizing of thoughts into a more palatable form, like angel and devil on shoulder.

 

A: Real, yes, intentional, not really.

 

B: As I said, "Actually, I'm not even sure I'd TECHNICALLY call this one a tulpa"

 

C: Not if it BECOMES a tulpa later, that was my point.

 

D: No comment, I didn't give that theory much thought after it was suggested, I can't say either way right now. But I don't think you understood exactly what he was trying to say, he'll clarify later.

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I made a thread about this a while ago. When you make a tulpa, your mind becomes a little more malleable - you practice visualisation a lot and see movement in static images; you force a lot and blur the line between what is and isn't you - which means that you're more prone to things like an old imaginary friend apparently 'appearing'. What I would probably suggest is that 'your mind does things' and dismiss it as nothing - or perhaps what you might call an 'intrusive thought'. However, many people will see this thing and think that there's no way something that moves and talks autonomously can't be a tulpa (that ignores dream characters, but avoids blurring the area for your own tulpa. Not to say that there is no difference, since one could actually think for itself and the other could not, perhaps). Then they treat this thing like a tulpa, while thinking it's a tulpa, and unsurprisingly it becomes a tulpa over time.

That's my theory anyway, and it basically applies to a tulpa that has apparently appeared out of nowhere after the host has already done things related to tulpas.

 

Let me comment on your classes.

 

A: I think that the creation process depends hugely on expectation. You're unlikely to get a tulpa if you don't expect anything like one, even if you do go through the process. What will happen is at some point the person takes this character and thinks, "Hey, what if they're actually sentient". Then they treat as sentient, think as sentient, and then you have your tulpa.

 

B: Also called "hearing voices" and I don't know of any examples of this. Your head can make voices by itself. Ever heard voices while falling asleep? Treat them like they're coming from a tulpa made by your 'subconscious' and you're going to have tulpas coming out of your ears.

 

C: Basically how I described it but applied to a very specific scenario.

 

D: How do I even psychology? Thoughts aren't like little people running around. I have absolutely no idea why you would even think something like that.

 

Moose, your definitions ignore the majority of 'accidental tulpas', when someone comes across a character in their head and thinks it's a tulpa. Go read some PRs and probably some psychology textbooks.

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I'd like to suggest class E: Premature tulpa. Both of my tulpae were this. Basically, you plan to make a tulpa but don't intend to actually work on it until a later date. During the time in between, you think about what the tulpa will be like or maybe do some planning for personality, form, and such, and at some point the tulpa decides "Well, that's enough for me!" and comes into existance on it's own. Of course the host won't notice right away since they're not looking for them, plus the new tulpa will be non-vocal and weak from lack of attention, so they have to either find a way for the host to notice them or else hang on until their intended creation date.

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Before I comment on this, a blanket statement: Anything I said there was just examples. Not all-inclusive in the slightest.

 

Let me comment on your classes.

 

A: I think that the creation process depends hugely on expectation. You're unlikely to get a tulpa if you don't expect anything like one, even if you do go through the process. What will happen is at some point the person takes this character and thinks, "Hey, what if they're actually sentient". Then they treat as sentient, think as sentient, and then you have your tulpa.

That expectation is a portion of the conscious part of breaking down your own barriers, as discussed. A simple, obvious part, but a crucial part nonetheless.

 

 

B: Also called "hearing voices" and I don't know of any examples of this. Your head can make voices by itself. Ever heard voices while falling asleep? Treat them like they're coming from a tulpa made by your 'subconscious' and you're going to have tulpas coming out of your ears.

 

Yes, I'm familiar with hypnagogia, which clearly doesn't apply here. Many users, including myself, have warned about this to new users, to avoid mistakes.

Some may seem like what you describe, which would just be a form of the third type, but if you're dismissing that as a possibility entirely, you're just being silly. That there is the closest example in this brief theory that would be considered a "natural" insanity, it clearly happens.

 

C: Basically how I described it but applied to a very specific scenario.

 

Again, I didn't mean for that to be specific... I really should have spelled that out in the intro.

 

D: How do I even psychology? Thoughts aren't like little people running around. I have absolutely no idea why you would even think something like that.

 

I already said I had no proper comment in defense of that statement. I'll let Chupi handle that one, even though I think I see where he's coming from with it.

 

Moose, your definitions ignore the majority of 'accidental tulpas', when someone comes across a character in their head and thinks it's a tulpa. Go read some PRs and probably some psychology textbooks.

 

Such perceived ignoring I would assume stems from the fact that you seem to think I'm talking in specifics. PRs? I'm an oldfag, do you think I haven't read my share? Do you think I'd be discussing this if I haven't read my share? And I have formally studied some degree of psychology (but do not mistake that statement for me claiming to be a psych major or anything).

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To elaborate on class D, since I just gave Moose a couple lines about it on the IRC:

 

This is essentially an attempt to explain the accidental seemingly instant tulpa. The voice the pops in one day, is not your other tulpa, and sticks around. A number of people have have this happen, though the majority do not appear to.

 

First a little theory, as I see it:

 

In making a tulpa, you are essentially creating a dissociated personality. As you make a tulpa by whatever method, you take some of your thoughts (or make new thoughts) and "detach" them from yourself by convincing yourself they aren't yours. This is typically done by making a personality for them and talking to them endlessly. As you talk to them you automatically come up with potential replies based on the personality. These replies become more and more defined and you see them as less and less "just you". The more you not so much believe but assume and know that these replies and the thoughts behind them are not yours, the more you ignore the thoughts leading to the replies.

 

When the process is complete, you have a set of thoughts going on that run independently to your own, can observe and respond to things, follow their own personality, and generate vocal and other responses you can observe -- yet you are entirely unaware of what these thoughts are doing most of the time. The tulpa thought process can also be focused on doing some task and entirely ignore your thoughts. At this point, you have parallel processing. Learn to not pay attention to the body and let the tulpa thought process mind it for you, and you have switching. And so forth.

 

As some point along the way (I really don't know at what point), the tulpa becomes complex enough thought-wise to properly think. Now your tulpa is not just a few thoughts and automatic responses, but a thinking being who is quite arguably conscious in the same way you are.

 

By this theory, a tulpa is formed from thoughts that are pushed away from the host. Of course once pushed away and formed into a tulpa, they grow into so much more than what you directly made -- which is why a tulpa deviates more and more, becoming a more unique, different person from the host over time.

 


 

Now, as you go about creating a tulpa, you get thoughts and make them either yours or the tulpa's. You say something and get some movement or mindvoice that fits their personality reasonably well, that's your tulpa. Get some random off-the-wall reply, that's an intrusive thought, visualization derp or other sort of brainfart on your part. So far all is well, you're developing your tulpa and shaping their personality.

 

But now the tulpa becomes conscious enough to make choices. You perceive some thoughts or emotions that you decide aren't yours. Meanwhile your tulpa perceives the same thoughts and decides they aren't theirs either. This is what I mean by "caught in between" you and your tulpa. The thought is neither of you. Enough of these that are consistent and they may form a second tulpa, in the same way as pushing thoughts away from yourself formed the first.

 

Same basic idea on "rejected personality traits". You force a trait or thought pattern and assign it to your tulpa, who rejects it and pushes it away as well. If you go on getting responses derived from this trait, they are neither you nor your tulpa. The more this responds, the more independent and not-you it becomes, until it's as separate an entity as a tulpa.

 

You may not even consciously realize what's going on until it's separate enough to be considered a tulpa, able to break through your belief and expectation that nobody else is there.

 

Similarly, a thought patten that you repress or otherwise try to get rid of in certain ways may go on, but outside of what you consider to be "you", and completely outside your awareness. Which is fine, unless it becomes something that can interact with you.

 

Note: Effort is being put in, just not in ways you'd expect for making a tulpa. Here it's effort making something and separating it from yourself, then a tulpa separating it from themself. Or effort in pushing away an unwanted emotion.

Lyra: human female, ~17

Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee

Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her

My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)

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Class A: The type that I would call an accidental tulpa without the quotes. A person is working on something, and accidentally turns it into a tulpa. Say they're talking to something that's not a tulpa, that they know is not a tulpa... and yet they're talking to it a lot.

 

My very first Tulpa was what you are calling Class A.

 

I spent several days intensely researching servitors, day and night.. fascinated. Then feeling I knew enough on making servitors after a few days of intense study on those, I started to plan my servitor, a healing servitor. I was listing all the things I wanted my servitor to do and gave it looks, turned it into an Angel (planning to seriously get into its making it the next day). I decided that when I made my servitor, I came up with the idea that it would be great if it could think for itself.. and suddenly I had a Tulpa...something I didnt even know about.

 

I was still thinking about making her when she spoke to me clearly in her voice (she gave me a simple greeting.. I think it was just "Hello" it was very loud when I was deep in thought about creating her, making me jump at the voice and suddenly it felt like she was standing beside me. I was like "oh shit" I created her.. "that wasnt meant to happen yet". I was quite shocked by this and confused.

 

 

Class B: What I'd tentatively refer to as subconscious tulpas. Actually, I'm not even sure I'd TECHNICALLY call this one a tulpa, because a tulpa isn't shaped this way. You didn't shape it, it didn't come into being because you were talking to it or mass-thinking about it... it came from some other part of your mind. Some form of mental distress or lack of well-being, some sort of very strong subconcious desire, whatever it may be. Again, just with a Class A, having a previous tulpa will make it that much easier for such a thoughtform to be heard by you. A person without such an altered thought process would be much less likely to hear them, assuming in this point that such a thing would occur without tulpas even being known.

 

Something very weird happened with my first Tulpa about 10 years ago which completely put me off of this stuff for a very long time. I believe/d she was gone (not sure what I think now after something which has happened the other day).. but I have very recently started making a second Tulpa..this time with awareness about Tulpas (Im a week and a half in, Im letting him go at his own pace but he's talking, thou has reverted back to using my own mind voice).

 

Ive thou twice in the making of this one had weird incidences which has me going "what in the heck is going on!!".. which could be explained by if I had another Tulpa unknown to me, one I havent created (this would explain a weird incidence I had with my very first Tulpa so long ago now and the 2 weird incidences Ive had since Ive been working on the new one.. including suddenly seeing TWO females in robes in HIS inner place, one of them is wearing the colour and dress of my old Tulpa if Im remembering back correctly, while the other is dressed the same as her). The other incident was .. I heard a clear female voice which wasnt my own inner voice who seemed to be talking to me about my new Tulpa. It said "Im going to play with Jesse". (my new Tupla's name seems to be Jesse, Ive heard that when I asked him what his name is.. Ive allowed him to name himself). I was so startled by this I immediatly got up and went to get myself a hot drink instead of trying to question the unknown female voice (as I dont want another Tulpa so just wanted to get away from it to think). (being so long ago, I cant remember what my old Tulpas voice sounded like, so Im wondering was it her? or was it the "something" else who interfered with her and scared me? or neither of those things?)

 

Im right now trying not to think about it all... as I DO NOT want another Tulpa and if something is there, I do not want to be feeding it. But if something else is there..its been there for past 10 years.. hiding??? obviously able to survive that long with no attention to it. Why hasnt it made itself known to me until now?? maybe cause it scared the heck out of me 10 years ago but if its that, it didnt want to know me at all back then only was interested in my Tulpa .. 10 years ago I had "something" (something with consciousness) interfere with the Tulpa I had back then to the point that I lost my Tulpa.

 

Im full of questions what is currently going on.. but blocking thinking about it but this post has made me think about it as it could be a CLASS B Tulpa and one I dont want (as I arent ready for any more, I would never have any more then 1-2 Tulpas, the one Im making now I expect to be with me for life). I wanted to get back into the Tulpa stuff slow with just the one Tulpa and possibly that is it..

 

I'll probably ask my new Tulpa soon what is going on (just want to give him and me a little more time in case things end up being complicated) but i guess if the weird things continue.. I may soon work out what is going on anyway.

 

Im trying to make sure that Class C thing dont happen and are telling myself the female voice which spoke to me in a different voice quite clearly seemingly refering to my new Tulpa and the 2 females I saw standing in my own Tulpas space.. must of been just some kind of random intrusions..they better be! (and trying to do my best to convince myself that is the case..but I truely dont know, its making no sense, its weird). What makes me seeing those there even stranger is my visualisation skills are terrible and I havent even managed to see my new Tulpas place yet (thou I can imagine him some but only to the point where I can just got body parts) but I havent even seen him that clearly as I saw those two females in his space.

........

 

This leaves me to ask a question. Does people think that if one accidentlly created one very fast in the past, does it leave one more susceptable to accidently creating others?

 

Two.. Could an accidently created Tulpa you arent aware of, appear fully imposed outside of oneself? (the answer to this is relevent to strange bad experience I had with my first Tulpa). If it is.. would that mean that Tulpa is a stronger one esp if you've never thought of it before? Has anyone here had this happen to them?

 

I wasnt going to share all this weirder stuff with those at this site (out of fear of not being believed) but just have decided too seeing someone started up the thread about "accidental Tulpas". I'd really like my two questions answered by those who are experienced with this and not people just guessing the answers to those questions. Thanks (guess my wanting to make sense of things is more then my fear of not being believed)

Jesse (human male) DOB 16th April 2013 

Working on imposition

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I think I loosely fall under Class A. The technique I began with, known as CALD, Character Assisted Lucid Dreaming, involved creating a character. The process was basically the same as creating a tulpa.

You would come up with a form and you would talk to it all the time. The main method of interaction was narration and passive forcing.

There was just one key difference. You weren't supposed to be looking for sentience. The character was all you, it wasn't supposed to be perceived as separate. It was just supposed to be puppet/parrot all the time.

 

But by spending months with the character I created, talking to him and building his personality he basically became so automated, so separated from my own thoughts, that he developed what I would call sentience without me realizing it specifically. When I came across the tulpa idea I read the word sentience in one of the guides and I immediately thought the following.

"Yeah, he already has that."

I don't think it could be much more accidental than that. Perhaps unintentional would be a better term.

The tulpa technique provided direction for where to go and what to think. It provided a better mindset to allow Noah to become even more independent.

 

The "Anti-Insane" defenses that I would otherwise have had were ignored because the CALD technique was, for me anyway, a controlled experiment. There was also no worry about it not being real, about it not being sentient. There were no problems regarding belief because the character was just supposed to be just a character and nothing more. I honestly think it provided a more fool proof way to create a tulpa because by following the technique the character really only became a tulpa if you believed it could be independent from yourself.

 

 

The other classes though?

Well the only way I can see a Class B occurring is if the creator took a dream character. For CALD there was absolutely nothing wrong with taking a dream character and using them to create a CALD character. After all if the character has already appeared in your dream then why not try to use them to help you gain lucidity. I think it would be a tulpa, but only if a similar process to what I described above was followed. Had I seen my tulpa in a dream first and taken his appearance from what I'd seen then he'd be a Class B without really being any different.

 

Class C. I think at best you are describing the point of origin for a tulpa. A tulpa isn't defined by how it starts so much as how it is treated and interacted with. Just because it started as a stray thought instead of a glowing ball of light you specifically set out to create doesn't mean much in the end. But, I'll add, the thought you hear and assume is a fully functional tulpa probably isn't much of one from the get go. I think the problem here is that after just a few minutes of distracted thoughts the eager host suddenly thinks this cool character they were thinking of and throwing thoughts at is suddenly a tulpa. You might be able to think up the replies the new tulpa could make and it may have the making of a tulpa but it is just that.

The makings of a tulpa. Build on it and treat it like a tulpa and maybe but these things really take time. Trying to actually create tulpa with the class C method I could probably have a dozen tulpa done within the hour.

Example:

I have my tulpa Noah sitting in the chair. I imagine a female sitting in the opposite chair. I visualize her and my mind allows her to talk to Noah. I give her a name and suddenly a tulpa. Now I have two tulpa. Congratulations..... but I really like that character I saw on tv too, maybe I'll make a tulpa of him as well.

My point. People don't understand commitment. Just like a human mind and tulpa takes time to grow and become it's own.

 

Class D. I'm not really seeing it. If it is someone that isn't aware of tulpa then perhaps it would relate to the demon/angel on the shoulder deal. My guess is the thoughts you'd want to separate would be either evil or ideal, it'd probably take a lot to characterize the thoughts into anything more... I mean even characterizing them as the angel/demon would be a stretch for most "sane" people. It goes back to the anti-insanity defenses.

Other than that I really can't think of anything. You mentioned trains of thought? Well, maybe if the host had no idea what they were doing and if neither them nor their tulpa claimed the freshly derailed fright train then maybe the host could explain it by creating another tulpa to take responsibility for the stray thoughts... Doesn't seem very logical but I'm sure there are a few tulpa that started like this. My bets are that after a few days the tulpa that start this way are either completely forgotten or classed as second rate by the host.

 

I'll stick with A as the common source of accidental or unintentional tulpa while C is basically naming those less than a week old tulpa that the host absolutely believes in.... and that others don't really like.

 

A, probably been around for a while.

C, those overly eager hosts with baby tulpa.

D, people need to pay more attention to what they are doing and recognize stray thoughts as just stray thoughts.

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