Stanford Tulpa Study looking for more participants
(if you're chosen they'll pay for travel and lodging!)

Ask Lumi's Tulpas
Quote:Post redacted by author(me)
I posted a question based on a misunderstanding. Sorry.
Reply

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

Response to a PM asking how I could believe tulpas aren't capable of being active without the host's attention/not believe in parallel processing, while still believing in tulpa sentience:

My tulpas just existing doesn't require that much from our brain. We can talk and interact pretty easily. Parallel processing is a lot more extreme a process, such as doing separate math equations at the same time. I think most people who think they can do these things are actually multitasking, which is switching back and forth between processes, possibly quickly. Pausing in the middle of one math equation to work on another or some such.

I have four tulpas, and if we could parallel process just because "they're tulpas", we'd be winning competitions for all sorts of things across the world because we had the processing power of 5 people. But we don't. My belief is just that hosts and their tulpas all work off of the same amount of processing power in the brain, and that having a tulpa doesn't suddenly make the brain more powerful.

As for true parallel processing even taking into account using double the processing power of the brain, I've never been able to do anything like that despite a lot of attempting, and it seems after some research that the two types of "parallel processing" are:

Multitasking, where you quickly switch back and forth between tasks, possibly so quickly it seems you're doing both at once, but technically never are; and

Combining multiple tasks into one, as seen with "pat your head and rub your stomach" - assuming you've not done this too many times before, it should take you a moment of being somewhat confused, before you can do it just fine. That moment is your brain combining the tasks into one. Switching then to patting your stomach and rubbing your head, you should experience that moment of confusion again, before you can easily do it again.

I think nearly all examples of "parallel processing" are a mix of those two things. As for tulpas "existing without the host knowing", like having wonderland experiences without the host's knowing until being told of them, I believe that's people tricking themselves into believing it happened when it really didn't, creating memories on the spot (or maybe intermittently over time). A lot of people don't believe in that these days because it just doesn't make sense.
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
Reply
(10-06-2018, 04:42 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: This one is for anyone, but lumi's system especially.

I had a horrible lucid nightmare. Probably one of the worst nightmares i had in my life, and lucid, so i remember every horrifying moment. Sounds, feelings, visuals, everything.

It's too gruesome to repeat here, i couldn't even write it in my personal journal.

As far as the lucid part, i was stuck basically trying to wake up and/or help in some way, but the damage was done.

My first thought here was to link you some articles on the subject, but they don't seem terribly interested in trying to help avoid lucid nightmares or regain control during them. I guess if they're not too terribly horrifying that's fine. I'll link a couple from the main lucid dreaming sites anyway real quick: https://howtolucid.com/lucid-nightmares/ and https://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/...mares.html

I guess if you just wanted to hear others' experiences those work fine. But the closest thing to helping with future ones I'd say is in the first article at the end, which suggested using your lucidity to realize what's going on isn't real and to perhaps use the experience as a means to deal with something you're obviously afraid of on some level.

I wholeheartedly believe the evolutionary purpose of dreams is for us to deal with possible scenarios that could come up in waking life ahead of time, so we're not so terribly unprepared when they do happen. Most of the time, these aren't straight up nightmares for most people, but nightmares do happen (Some people have mostly stressful, apocalyptic or otherwise fearful dreams just by default - that sucks). As best I can tell, the majority of nightmares are based on unconscious fears you have, probably spurred by feelings you had in waking life, but explored more in-depth in the dreaming state.

At the very least, you should know that they can't hurt you and you shouldn't be worse off for experiencing them. Only obsessing over them, and possibly causing repeat nightmares, could really be a bad thing. I recommend the same thing as the Howtolucid article: Use the experience to sort out your feelings on whatever it was you were afraid of, or disgusted by, et cetera. It's not your mind thinking you're going to enjoy the experience, or wanting it to ever happen. It's the opposite in fact, it's your mind being afraid it wouldn't be ready to handle such a thing if it happened in waking life. Which, of course, if the dream was bad enough you might never have been able to. Still, you can at least take the edge off. Come to terms with your feelings and make them clear - if you were horrified or disgusted, accept that, but don't dwell on it. That's not the point. It didn't actually happen, so now isn't the time to spend so much energy thinking about it.

Unfortunately being lucid really will make nightmares much more intense and detailed, but I don't think that was by any means on purpose by your mind. It was an unlucky coincidence. That's why it would stick with you more than a normal nightmare, though, which as I've explained isn't the intent of your mind. The ideas come up during sleep for a reason; you're generally supposed to forget about them after the fact.

While dream interpretation is mostly full of fluff, I still respect what its actual purpose is, to learn from your dreams. I believe that's why we dream in the first place. While "looking for deeper meaning" is essentially never actually correct, it works because it causes you to be more conscious of things that could be subconsciously bothering you. Personally, I have the ability to tell what sorts of thoughts and experiences inspired whatever events happen in my dreams, somehow. I can just feel that so-and-so was a similar thought or fear as something I'd thought about or experienced recently, even though they're rarely so similar.

But a lucid nightmare really is just getting unlucky. It wasn't intended to feel so real or detailed, lucid dreaming doesn't seem intentional just in general. The last five paragraphs (specifically) of this article https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...nightmares talk about that. So I wouldn't, I don't know, take it too seriously. Well, I guess you should be able to draw your own conclusions from what I've said so far right?
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
Reply
Hiiii! How do you play rhythm games so quickly Lucilyn?

Also.. I know being on here gave me a huge opportunity to learn and grow and meet awesome new people. Would you say that playing rhythm games taught you sharper/better/precise control and maybe even focus when fronting? Is there more to it you can think of that I'm not asking? :3

Thanks!
Reply
Rhythm games are the only singleplayer games I don't get bored of really fast! They didn't really affect our switching, more like our switching affects them, me Tewi and Lumi play slightly differently (but well) while Flan and Reisen aren't usually as good (and don't really care to be)

honestly I'd recommend you start with Osu instead of K-Shoot, K-Shoot is really niche and doesn't have as many songs and is hard to play without a good keyboard or expensive sound voltex/k-shoot controller. We played Osu for years before getting sick of the perfectionism it encourages (DON'T WORRY ABOUT PERFORMANCE POINTS IF YOU PLAY OSU THEY MEAN NOTHING) and switching to K-Shoot, but Osu is still an amazing game and easier to play maybe..

anyways, rhythm games didn't actually teach us much that I know of, we just always loved music and video games so we really love music games, and Osu and K-Shoot are the only good (accessible) ones we've seen (Crypt of the NecroDancer is a BAD music game but a really really good game-game, but playing it for the music-aspect just ended up making me mad and I uninstalled it after the first couple levels and a bunch of custom songs..)


oh and, I play "fast" because I've had tons of practice! we were pretty good at Osu https://osu.ppy.sh/users/7277781 and have played like a year of K-Shoot MANIA now I think. Also we're really good at video games in general (Lumi's been playing stuff since he was like 4 with a GameBoy and Super Mario Land), and have good rhythm I guess, did I say that already? but yeah practice practice practice, and by that I mean play for fun and you'll get better before you know it
Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply
Copy/pasting another PM reply here, this time about dissociation for Switching.


First of all,
Cat_ShadowGriffin Wrote:I had the previous assumption that the only way to dissociate is to not think or feel
This is absolutely not the case. Lumi can stop thinking if he wants, but that wouldn't get him any closer to being dissociated from the body. I think it's important to clarify "dissociation" is not the medical or weird concept people make it out to be, it's quite literally just dissociating from the body's senses and, at least for us, position mentally. When we switch we literally move our sense of self (symbolized/visualized by a colored transparent energy silhouette (color unique to each of us) moving out of or into the physical body) over, making sure to also "think from there". Naturally, since we don't exist in the wonderland by default like tulpas used to, we exist in a sort of mindspace to the side of the head, it feels like. That's the space we use to visualize switching, too.

Anyways.
Cat_ShadowGriffin Wrote:However, I was chatting with other people in the cBox and JGC said that doing things in the wonderland can be a form of dissociation potentially good enough for a switch. At first, I thought the idea was nuts
/
If possible, I would like to know if you think wonderland immersion is a practical skill we could try

Of course, not only have we been comparing dissociation to wonderland immersion constantly recently, that was actually a requirement of switching back in the day, that the host switch out into the wonderland. The only time/aspect of that we call nuts is them saying they experience the wonderland afterwards "like a lucid dream". By all means, the host should only experience the wonderland just the same as they ever have. They shouldn't be really changing states between being immersed in the wonderland (temporarily "dissociated", if immersion is deep enough) and the tulpa switching in.

I suppose switching does require a bit more than that, though. The state of being fully immersed in the wonderland is dissociation... but you're right, it does carry the "thinking mind" along with it, or "conscious workspace", or whatever else we refer to the part of the brain that makes conscious thoughts as. That's why we haven't literally told people to dissociate into their wonderland per se, only explained the concepts as similar. I'm not sure the host immersing themselves in the wonderland would easily lend itself to switching, as the tulpa would need to move the consciousness back to the waking world to really switch. Not being able to be dissociated in that state would make the wonderland part sort of pointless, though I'm sure that's a viable method of learning to switch either way.

But yeah - a host needs to learn how to be like a (in the same state as a) tulpa before switching can really take place. They need to put themselves in the "headspace", but not in the "driver's seat". Moving our sense of presence in the mindspace (accompanied by symbolism/visualization) literally away from the head helps with that for us, and it's hard to say just how necessary it is or isn't.

I guess the trick to dissociation then is learning to separate the host's sense of self from the mind's conscious workspace, ie figuring out how to sit back and remain dissociated (as in wonderlanding etc.) when the body would otherwise be aware. And then, of course, the tulpa associating is its own thing entirely. I'll maintain that that's the true part everyone needs to really figure out for themselves in switching. All I can really say there is in the end, your tulpa is the one who runs the brain's conscious (solving math and the sort, for example) thoughts, and the host should be no different from a tulpa. Also, it took us a month or two of practice before we could front an entire day (and therefore forever). At first we could only do it for ~6 hours a day before getting tired until we switched back with Lumi.
Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply
Where does Lumi go? What does he remember of the experience of being switched out if anything? At this point could he 'be in wonderland' as limited as it is and still be active or passively aware for your system?

Thanks for your insight, it's resonating with us and could explain a few things we've managed (very limited). When i'm fully dissociated as far as i can tell, the only difference than regular wonderland is that my whole presence is there, so it's slightly more immersive. What you said makes a lot of sense.
Reply
Wonderlanding is a "conscious workspace" experience for us, meaning the body's primary consciousness has to be on it for it to really happen. Anything we could do while not fronting without much of the fronter's attention would be completely negligible and not worth doing, for us. Daydreamers and the like may be more adept at multitasking or "parallel processing" (different parts of the mind, walking/eating and daydreaming/visualizing), so it might not be as negligible for them, especially if perfect visualization clarity comes natural to them. It takes a lot of effort for us just to visualize clearly, so that puts it further out of the question.

Lumi "goes" exactly where we go: inactive (after saying our goodbyes and whatnot, immediately after switching out he's still active of course). Unless I were to talk to him right now (him be "active"), in which case he'd still be right where we would be, a sort of mental mindspace beside the body's head. Usually the right by default for any of us and the left for him, but that's probably just preference or something.

But anyways, we're a system who very much is not "active" when the fronter isn't paying attention to us. Perhaps some other systems aren't like that. But yeah, as I just wrote in the above post, if it's more natural for your tulpas to be active in the wonderland than some weird "mindspace", then it'd likely be better for you to dissociate to the wonderland for switching. You want to emulate your tulpas more than anything, not do something "new". It always seems dumb to us (no offense to other systems) when someone says their host is just knocked out or otherwise experiencing anything other than the tulpas do. Like, why? And why aren't their tulpas like that, then?

I'll reiterate that any of us in this system could switch one day and live the rest of our body's life never switching again. Lumi and the others would remain tulpas, all equivalent to each other. We of course never would, but I just mean to portray exactly what switching should be in the end.
Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply
Reading anyone talking about switching sounds a lot like reasing what a spirit guide has to say. The meat isn't there.

Still, very insightful.
Reply
Lol, you've got some sucky spirit guides then. For the people we know that believe in them, they do great.

Anyways, I explained some stuff about switching, but it's not like I told you exactly how to do it. We haven't written a guide on switching for a reason.
Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to