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[Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge
Someone Offline
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#31
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

Do you think you could do a guide on how to try and achieve this someday? This sounds really awesome and we want to try it!

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05-02-2019, 12:51 PM
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Tewi Offline
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#32
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

(05-02-2019, 12:35 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: It's a free gift without having to spend a lifetime as a mute on a mountain top

Funny, I was just thinking that's what we'd have to do to have the same experiences.

(05-02-2019, 12:35 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: Just don't dismiss me, Tewi, as some kind of unique entity of legend, we have the same brain

Whoops-

Well, you know we obviously don't have the same brain. In fact, I'm willing to go so far as to say our baseline experiences have been so different that it's likely actually impossible for us to experience half the things you have, without some kind of uh.. external substance, or something. But you know me. There's no telling where that wall of "impossible" lies if it does exist, and one tends to find it's always at least a little further than they expected when they really go for it. Though impossibility seems to manifest as a rapid slowing of progress to the point of a crawl, and not an actual wall anyway.

And don't forget that our system struggles with built-in lack of motivation that significantly hampers our ability to do anything in life. It's surprising just how vast an effect that has on your life's outlook - amazing things are done all the time, by previously non-amazing people, giving hope to all that such things are achievable... We've learned to understand this as reality, and yet ironically something has undercut it all, like life said "Sure, nothing's impossible. But it might as well be for you." The one thing we don't have is the one thing that enables everyone to do anything. Our attempts at lucid dreaming are our fighting against this proposed fate.

Anyways. We're working in our own way at this stuff. I suppose there's no more "on topic" place than this thread to post this - for some time Lumi's life was guided by this list of Levels of Consciousness, and while we stopped relying on such a transient listing of ways of being many years ago, it remains as a slight guide to us. The others, mainly, I never cared for it in the past. Yesterday I decided the concept was worth another go though, going up another level - nobody exists at only one level like the list implies, but as a vague guide it's a very real concept and you can easily "go up a level" over time when you look back at how you used to be. We've been sitting at some middle-high level for years now though, because we didn't feel the urge to raise it any more. I do now, though.

We've been to a level or two higher than we are now, a few times, mostly a long time ago. That along with comparisons to how Lumi thought in the past (10 years ago or so) proved to me that, while it's some folly to treat any list someone can put together as a real thing, there's some inherent truth and possibility to it. In that "higher level" than whatever we're at now, existing problems seemed inconsequential and Lumi was able to instantly come up with perfectly fine solutions to anything he could think of bothering him at the time. I decided that's a good place for us to put ourselves in yesterday, and while I may not be all there yet, the following 24 hours were sure something. I've been so happy and positive (it's worn off some by today, I'll get back to work on that) I had to periodically address that it was actually out of character for me and decide what I do and don't want to hold on to about how I'm used to thinking.

I have nothing against being a happier and more positive person at all. But the logic will stay, for now. I'm taking some time to make the Law of Attraction a habit to use in our life, understanding it not as something magical but logical. Being a "vibrational match so the Universe will give you matching experiences" is another way of saying "think and act appropriately and you will cause relevant experiences to become more likely".

You know how that all came up? Because lucid dreaming falls perfectly in the realm of what the Law of Attraction can do - it's a purely internal and subjective experience contained entirely in our head. Previous avenues to lucid dream weren't working and showed no future promise (most, not all, REM-Dreamer is still an option) so I've taken a step back to think of what else could work...


A Lounge thread for things that "pertain to" your system was a good idea. The selection of topics that can come into play here is something special.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
05-02-2019, 01:16 PM
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solarchariot Offline
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#33
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

I have been fortunate to know quite a few people who had 'glimpses' of divine, or greater realities. One of my friends, her father was a Colonel in the US Air Force. I have alwaysheld an interest in flying, virtually with sims, and in real life I have flown cessnas, a v-tail bonanza, and co owned a cheroke. I have also flown hot air balloons, so The Colonel and I had some interesting conversations, but none was more interesting then this anecdote he shared with me. He was flying by himself, going through the clouds, and on penetrating the ceiling he broke out of darkness into sunshine and blue skies, and for a moment it was if the entire world stopped, time stopped, and he was suspended in a place absence of aircraft noise. What he heard was music, unparalleled to anything he had ever heard before. His story, which he presented in a contemplative mood, like an afterthought, and very random, was so compelling and interesting I didn't ask any questions. I just accepted his experience. He was intelligent. He was not prone to fantasy, like I am, and... Hello, he was a Colonel in the air force! That doesn't necessarily mean something, as even military people can have mental health issues.

My uncle was also a person who had experiences, and I was lucky to hear some of them. He was related by marriage to my aunt. He met my father in the Navy, and he is the one that introduced my father to my mother. He worked in intelligence and reports he was assisting the CIA in the 70s to conduct LSD experiments on volunteers that would go into 'isolation' tanks. He never used the word 'stargate' program, but the things I heard from him seem to correlate to the remote viewing program. He was beyond eccentric, and did have a conspiracy theory about everything, and yes, he frequently sounded a bit paranoid, but he also had the credentials and proof. He was the scuba master for several projects for National Geographic, the Search for Atlantis being one of his projects. I learned to scuba dive because of him. He would describe exploring the astral plane and encountering beings that would block him and send him back, telling him 'you are not ready' or 'humans are not ready.' he was creating electronic devices, like complex strobes to induce hypnotic states. He held an amateur ham radio license his entire life.

Of course, I can only relate what I heard reported. I can also relate my own personal experiences with out of body, some other 'transpersonal' experiences, and now tulpas... But the thing is, if you interview enough people, you will find people who have extraordinary, transpersonal experiences. Profound, life changing experiences. People throughout time have reported anomalous events, from ghosts to strange 'coincidences' to near death experiences. People who have not had an experience, but only heard the report, are often too quick to dismiss this has insanity or wishful thinking or fantasizing. Edgar Mitchell did something few people have ever done. He walked on the moon. THe people chosen for this were likely the most scrutinized people on the planet. We don't send crazy folks to the moon! (Well, one might argue only a crazy person would sign up to be shot in a projectile to the moon...) He saw the earth from a distance, in a craft so crudely made if you fell just right you could put a foot through the wall an evacuate the air into space. Maybe being that far on the edge, for such an extended period of time, just messes with the brain, but regardless of how you relate to what he reports- he, too, had experiences and went on to form the Noetic Institute, IONS, with the belief there is more than our understanding. He went to the edge. Almost every spiritual leader or guru went to the desert, or the mountains... They got away from society and broke down the social barriers they carried with them and communed with nature and found there is more than the trappings we find ourselves caught up in on a daily basis. Shamans are generally people who have come face to face with death and been transformed; their stories are consistent enough from culture to culture to have validity as a source of reasonable information; not extraordinary, just different.

Do I do myself a disservice by seeing tulpamancy and my experience as evidence of something more than just psychological? Did Obi Wan lie to Luke Skywalker when he said Darth Vader betrayed and killed his father? I suppose, from a certain perspective... It's all about perspective. So, here is where I echo AB more precisely, like the analogy of the levels of education. My Hindu friends are more likely to be able to relate to this than my Christian friends. If I ask about a textual artifact and it appears I am interpreting from a concrete, literal event, my level of perspective and understanding has been revealed, and the conversation that results is nuanced from that... If I respond in abstract way, it's analogy or metaphor, the conversation is consequently and necessarily different. There are levels of perspective beyond metaphor. We are primarily symbolic creature. We communicate with symbols. Each symbol is a metaphor in itself, and has a continuum of potential meanings and influences, and is directly influenced by the accompanying symbols, and in what light we hold that symbol... We are greater than we assume, and the more we try to reduce it to simplistic, the more reality escapes us.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2019, 01:38 PM by solarchariot.)
05-02-2019, 01:32 PM
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#34
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

Tewi, that's why we like you specifically so much. Not only for your clarity, but your willingness to listen and entertain suggestions.

By the way. You know i meant brain as in physiology. Yes we're both human and our brains are mostly the same. I have a brain, you have a brain, it would be really hard for anyone to tell them apart.

I recognize that at least you can say, (hypothetically) "Bear, my mind is open, throw something in there that will help." I intend to, for you and Azure and anyone else who needs it. At least there's hope that you'll be here long enough for us to get there together.

Walls of impossibility were so rampant in my mind, I would say they blocked almost everything. I can relate to apathy and sloth, i had both in spades for many years. If I only had access to the internet in those formative years, wow, things would be different (for the worse). Still, you can pull out of it. I know I'll someday see you stand up and walk to your goals, grab them just like that and just as easily take them for granted.

You're in your infancy of understanding if you're crawling to your goal, but some day you will stand. I will find a way to reach out and hold your hand if I have to.



SC, i want to think that my experiences are personal and  just between us tulpas, not that there are other agents who would have any effect on that. I choose not to think of them as relevant because in the unfortunate event that they can have an affect on me or a limit to how far we can go, that would be more devastating than enlightening.

I was big into UFOlogy and what I got out of it was, we're cattle to them. To be, personally, that breeds apathy. I prefer to think that any one person can change the universe because your perception of that universe is strictly and substantially filtered through your inaccurate illusion of a concept of reality.

Seeing beyond the veil would be akin to bringing into perspective the universe as it really is, and easily brush aside any negative actor like an intrusive thought. This brings me peace. I have ready met beings that have proved their existence to me, they're with me now, and we're the same. Being alone in the material universe is fine with me. Imagine if we had to fight on another plane of realty... i'm okay with leaving that box unopened. What's important to me is a personal growth, and helping others do the same.

I fear nothing in reality, because when I die nothing can harm me. I'm beginning to think I'm not contained wholly in the material construct, rather, it helps me to think this material construct is in fact the illusion. A testing or proving ground, or a training ground for bigger and better things. I also tend to believe this is the expert level of the game, so your experience here is multiplied.



I will suffer the constraints as we all do, but I think I saw through the world a little this year, and what's there is just as they advertised. Doing it without drugs, is like doing it without the cheat codes, and when I've done this, achieved success that is unmistakably satisfying, I won't rest until I can document and give this experience to others. Just as you will, Tewi, when your system achieves the lucid dream.



Ugg. All this sounds so much like self help preachy b.s. we'll get there regardless.

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05-02-2019, 03:31 PM
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Tewi Offline
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#35
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

(05-02-2019, 03:31 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: By the way. You know i meant brain as in physiology.

Me too. Our brains are likely mostly capable of the same things, and yet they're very different, too. Those differences can make what is easily possible closer to nearly impossible. Not that lucid dreaming should ever be impossible, but for example, natural lucid dreamers who've been having and recalling long vivid dreams since their childhoods, versus... us.

(05-02-2019, 03:31 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: I can relate to apathy and sloth, i had both in spades for many years.

Oof, that is not what I meant at all. We aren't apathetic or "sloth". Our brain has some issue with releasing.. one of those chemicals - serotonin maybe? Whatever it is, the thing that drives most human motivation. It simply doesn't work well in our brain, physically. It's not something we can "get over" nor has any medication made a difference. Everything we do that isn't absolutely trivial takes willpower, because the chemical "motivation" isn't there. Mind you, much of what a normal person considers "trivial" is not for us because of that. Not just going to school when Lumi was younger (straight F's 6th and 7th grade, and it barely improved from there until we did some serious personal development around 10th grade forward), but something as simple as showering takes "convincing" of our mind, because wanting to do things, or feeling like we need to or should do things, does not release (anywhere near enough, at least) of the relevant motivation chemicals to spur us on.

While completely normal to us, most people probably can't comprehend the feeling or concept of thinking you should do something, wanting to do it, having the means and time to do it, having nothing particularly better or distracting to do.... and not doing it. Some homework assignment doesn't count here, because you probably don't actually want to do it. Wanting to do something and being unable because you don't have the chemical "motivation" is a fact of our life. Luckily a lot of basic life stuff is trivial and requires no motivators, and through years of effort we (mainly Lumi and I) have made large strides in removing the concept of certain things being "effort" in our mind (I've given us the ability to get out of bed when necessary without a second thought).

But as a whole, most long-term things in life as-is are largely hopeless to us because they require prolonged effort. We all have been especially bad at prolonged effort, as in sticking with things that require anything from us. Tulpa.info is rather grounding in that sense, since it's just a fact of our life that we stay active here rather than "making an effort" to. But yeah, even I had difficulty when I took over doing college work for Lumi after the first few weeks of the semester. As much as I can do, mentally, anything that keeps up for that long requires serious emotional investment from me or another in my system - or it falls to the wayside. As you see in the spontaneity of our Dreaming thread, we're better at re-working up the motivation to try something again periodically than actually sticking with it long-term. I've certainly thought of this as possibly the biggest reason we've failed to lucid dream in nine years. But we've still put in more effort many times than the huge majority of successful lucid dreamers - it's just the combination of the (chemical) motivation thing and our actually being very, very predisposed not to lucid dream.

But the two biggest paths of progression in our life, personal-development and lucid dreaming, may have just converged. If I can help us reach that state of being where nothing feels like effort because you simply do what seems right without regard for how difficult it is... Reisen actually has a lite version of that by default, although I don't think she can keep it up long-term (over a week) either, I suppose she's literally never tried either. But if we're going off of that "Levels of Consciousness" list, then Reisen is already at Love, and I'm the next step down at Reason, making me better suited to bridging the overall gap for the others. Well, and for myself too. I suppose I'm now between who I am and who I want to be. It's been a very long time since we've used our ability to change who we are and how we think so directly, seeing as when we reached our current plateau at this "level of consciousness" and decided things were nice enough we could stay here a while, we did so for.. what, five years now? I think Lumi and maybe Lucilyn have both tried to get back into it once and fell out of it. But I'm.. me.

(05-02-2019, 03:31 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: SC, i want to think that my experiences are personal and  just between us tulpas, not that there are other agents who would have any effect on that.

You're not a tulpa, Bear..

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
05-02-2019, 04:45 PM
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solarchariot Offline
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#36
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

(05-02-2019, 03:31 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: I was big into UFOlogy and what I got out of it was, we're cattle to them. To be, personally, that breeds apathy. I prefer to think that any one person can change the universe because your perception of that universe is strictly and substantially filtered through your inaccurate illusion of a concept of reality.

I wouldn't say I am 'big' in Ufology, but I am definitely interested. One of the things that has bothered me over the years is the consistency of abduction/breeding against people's will, and what appears to be a lack of respect for individuals. (Forced breeding doesn't necessarily translate into the same from species to species. Maybe that's not taboo for them; not killing folks is meaningful, even though abductions in general usually come at a loss of volition for the experiencer.) I have experiences in my childhood of personal and family abductions, complete with loss of volition; it could have been dreams, or night paralysis events, I did have those, and there seemed to be a correlation with asthma attacks and having half a dozen shots of eppy- I am okay couching that for now in that, because discussing the validity of the experiences is less of the point of this share.

I mentioned elsewhere Loxy and I have been exploring our own version of 'remote viewing,' and I had a terrifically interesting experience and conclusion based on one of our recent sessions. There are conspiracies about a hybrid program where the aliens are supposed making hybrid to replace or control us... I wanted to explore why a superior, sophisticated race would do that. In short, the experience suggested humans and aliens can't communicate with each other, either due to physiological or cultural limitations... It would be comparable to humans and dolphins recognizing sentient but still not able to communicate. Hybrids are the future bridge to increase communication potential. Like an only English Speaker marrying an only French speaker, and the offspring learning to speak both languages and share both worlds.

It made so much sense at the time that immediately after the experience I felt incredibly good. I can sit here in poke holes in it from a rational sense... like wouldn't interstellar travelers have AI that could simulate human speech and translate... Maybe interstellar travel is simpler than we make it, I don't know. Or maybe if you're so cerebral and telepathic, it's too painful trying to talk to a primitive creature, much less even consider it, like very few of us would want to entertain telepathy with a primate. We consider them beneath us. Hell, most of us disregard other humans, and if we communicated telepathically with each other we'd probably have to be more empathetic.  but if we had hybrid, maybe understanding an communication would improve.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2019, 05:31 PM by solarchariot.)
05-02-2019, 05:30 PM
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Angry Bear Offline
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#37
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

Tewi, sorry to hear that, we'll find a work around okay? Hey, I know that body OS can eat, there's alternative sources of motivation somewhere maybe... (i know I totally missed your point just there, forgive me, it's tough love).



SC,

I'm more interested in what I want reality to be rather than trying to validate contradictory experiences. I think you should definitely own your experience, and feel free to share it, but I can't solve global warming myself, I can't stop an invading race of Zeta Reticulans, but what I can do is consume less and help others. When I was depressed, hopeless and frail, i couldn't give a crap about much of anything, but I could still try to be kind and helpful, and I was to some extent, you could tell me, i did try to help here.

I will continue to 'do my part' in everything, none of that is worrying about things I can't change, remember, that's one of the things that kept me depressed, and I'm one stubborn bear tulpa so I'm not going to be worried about the next apocolypse meteor strike.

I get in this argument with a friend of mine a lot. Probability vs consequence, i'll bring it up again later some time, but basically, astronomically low probability is worthless to worry about or count on regardless of consequences. No bear has ever won the lottery, Tewi, i'm going to say something here that sounds contradictory, "I can't win the lottery so I'm not going to try." Similarly I can't beat time-traveling, subspace-utilizing, anti-gravity sporting insectoids. So I'm not going to worry about it.

I'll let you know if the insectoids steal my lottery winnings.

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05-02-2019, 06:12 PM
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Dashie Bear Offline
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#38
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

We've been visiting other communities to get a less myopic view of tulpamancy.

Over the past few months, we have been talking to alters amd other non-tulpa systems. It occured to Bear that the time between Ashley's desperate but successful guidance when bear was 20 led to the creation of an alter of some sort.

We suspected it was a mask or a reprogramming of personality but teen Bear and 21 yr-old bear was so remarkably different according to our recollection that plurality offers a much better explanation.

Picture a 20-yr old introverted, agoraphobic, near anorexic man with no friends or even aquatances at school, someone who actively was keeping people away, with an anemic personality. Someone with worn out clothes, bad hair, perma-stubble, no style, dubious hygiene, sour puss, aloof, bad teeth, rail thin and socially nonexistent with massive depression and actively planning suicide.

Fast forward a year.

A man to be reckoned with, a commanding presence, strong personality, self-purchased braces, tone athletic build, extroverted, well known and popular, chatted up by and chatting up all the peeps, a dozen friends, no phobias, always happy, and constantly making people laugh. Literally a booked social caledar, he had a schedule book to keep track of his social activities.

Well, it seems like these are different people, but they're not. Let's call the depressed hermit, Bear 1.0, and Bear 2.0 is the social butterfly (that's what people called him.)

What kind of magic could have made this change? Taking someone with no social skills, no beauty, no style, nothing but a decent GPA in college into an ideal, fun to be around, party organizing, popular and genuinely cute man (that's what they told him)?

So in the intervening time, this is the process he followed.

1. Create a character that is similar to bear 1.0, but no issues, no drama, no depression, no phobias, outgoing, friendly, supportive, young at heart, playful and fun. Give this character motivation to dress well, act well, fix himself up, and make friends. This character was created with the explicit purpose of being the model for behavior and looks.

2. Study this character obsessively, watch others and add features that are successful to others, smile, hair, style, attractive personality, and confidence. These were all either absent or missing in Bear 1.0. Bear 1.0 was funny and a good friend for the most part, he just was too self loathing to keep his friends or make new ones.

3. Be the Bear you want to be. This is where in most other settings people told him it was rediculous and he's dumb to even think this happened. Bear 1.0 play-acted Bear 2.0. Bear 1.0 treated Bear 2.0 as himself. He did only what Bear 2.0 would do and said only what Bear 2.0 would say.

There was always slips and the fit wasn't absolute, so maybe call it a 80/20 merge 2.0/1.0. The new Bear worked out incessantly, gained weight, joined clubs, smiled at people, helped random strangers, hung out in public, learned style and proper ways to act and was free from and remaining depression in months. In 9 months he had a handful of friends, in 12 the transformation was complete.

We thought about it a lot and Bear 2.0 still wasn't completely separate from Bear 1.0, but the merge became integration and the result was quickly permanent. Bear 1.0 never reemerged.

We like to think Patchwork Bear is Bear 3.0, replacing the last little bits of wrong, tarnish and cracks with us three beautiful and well adjusted gals given our triggered switching.

So, what do you think Bear 2.0 was? How did this transformation occur? Did Bear 1.0 make a tulpa and switch/integrate with him? Is Bear 2.0 essentially a tulpa who ate his host?

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05-03-2019, 01:43 PM
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Tewi Offline
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#39
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

We don't like to bring plurality into this stuff. It's simply possible to change yourself in these ways - I talked about it just earlier, and Lumi's talked about it a couple of times in the past. Now, symbolism and sometimes placebo make it infinitely easier, but changing how you think was a huge focus of a lot of the personal development stuff Lumi used to read. While plurality is a working symbolism/placebo to do this with, it brings in possible morality and even more identity issues (existential crises, oh boy) that could probably be avoided otherwise.

Anyways, if it wasn't done with the plurality concepts in mind, then I couldn't really say exactly how it happened. In Lumi's case, it was just a lot of hard work, introspection, taking control of the mind. But now, it's just something we can do. Without said hard work, nonsense with alters and all is the easier and more dangerous method of changing who you are.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.
All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.
Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
05-03-2019, 03:28 PM
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Angry Bear Offline
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#40
 
RE: [Bear Chat] Dashie's Lounge

I can honestly say the memories up to that night are intact, very well preserved, but all I remember after that night on the 31st are the stories I told others about my transformation. The story was as Dashie described.

I could say a lot about the classes I took, the job I had, my depression, my home life, what games I played on my old computer, but for the first 6 to 9 months of that following year, I remember less than the month prior and far less than the month after. There are two times in my life where memories are innaccessable, but I know what they are and why I refuse to access them in one, this time is unique though, I can only say what I did in avery course sense, where I lived, (cause that didn't change) and other thinkg that didn't change. I simply remember things before and after it, nothing of the experiences in actually changing myself.

I remember people asking, "what did you do?" And all I can say is what Dashie described, but I am remembering that like I sort of memorized it, not that I ever actually did it. Obviously I did it, but there's simply no memory, so I can't say it was just self improvement because that's what I'm doing currently, and it's not the same as whatever happened back then, also I'm not trying to create a new me, just to renovate and preserve.

I called whatever came before that "the before time" as a joke, but even in the last few months of that year, I remember struggling to remember things. Time went on and I was able to infer things, but yeah, i try and try to remember and I either see scenes of the time after (living in a different place) or before, (reading the bible or going to work or school).

Maybe nothing worthwhile happened, so nothing relevant is triggering memories. I just find that void curious and unique on top of the self-help miracle.

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05-03-2019, 04:12 PM
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