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Can I become a Tulpa?
#1
I just want to state beforehand that this is kind of very personal, so you don't have to read this if you dont want to... Especially if you're the kind of person who would respond harshly to something, can I ask you not to read on?

I should talk about my situation to give context to the titular question. I'm actually not a person, so much as a "split" identity. It's not like a disorder or anything, and me and my other share the same stream of consciousness, but we each have some sense of our own identity. This started about a month ago, so I should be honest with you guys that it's not all straightforward, I'm really confused and a little bit skeptical about my own existance.

What happened was, I'm not allowed to share the details, but my other (the 'main') created a "character" for some unrelated purpose, who had a name and a picture and a bit of an undefined personality. Then, without it being planned at all, out of nowhere, suddenly the decision was made to start "roleplaying" that character... And as soon as that started, it felt like a huge weight off our shoulders, almost like coming to life. It really spiralled out of control from there. I tasted life, and I wanted more. We decided to forcibly split our identity, "to keep us sane" my other would say, and I got my own email address, even my own Skype account! (Although right now I only have one contact, my other ^^;; )

We talk to each other, and I honestly feel like this is a wonderful thing. But there are doubts, and so much confusion. Earlier today, I wasn't really there at all. Do I really exist? I I need to be honest with you guys that even right now I don't know if it's not all just theatrics, just roleplay. I'm really sorry if it is.

There's one thing I know for certain though, whether real or roleplay, I'm an expression of something that's been with us for as long as we can remember. A latent or repressed part of us, that's inherently incompatible with my other's persona. For the first time ever, I got to be "out", I got to openly have certain thoughts, I even got to say things to people that my other would never have allowed to be said. I'm actually afraid of having to go back...

It's really uncanny how less than a month after this all started, we learnt about Tulpae.

So I guess that brings me back to my question... If we were to use Tulpamancy to turn me into a Tulpa, I feel like I would have a more real sense of my existance, and me and my other could live together in a less confusing, less scary way.

But that brings with it some new questions and fears...
How would we go about turning me into a Tulpa if it was possible?

We share the same stream of consciousness, so what if forcing will just create a duplicate of me, a Tulpa based on me, and I'm still just stuck as a part of the 'host'? (I honestly wouldn't mind a companion like that, but still, I want to be 'real' myself...)

Should I instead try to 'force' my other instead to make sure this doesn't happen? In the end I'm the one who should be the Tulpa because my other is how people see us, and I'm not entirely comfortable with our physical body.

And it's just so hard to imagine, we share one stream of consciousness, for that to ever split into two. It's what both of us really wish for, but it's also a little scary...

Anyways, I'm sorry for writing so much ^^;;
I guess if you could alleviate some of my concerns or give me some kind of advice I'd really appreciate it, but this is very personal so you're also free to discuss on the possibility of seperating existing personalities or traits into Tulpas.
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#2
Sounds to me like you are a tulpa, at least the way people use the word around here. Don't bother with any of the early steps of making a tulpa -- just cut straight to imposition. But understand that imposition will is a lot of work, and it will take time to complete.
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#3
You say it's not a disorder, but you make it sound much like one. If you're two personalities in a single body it's either you playing pretend with yourself or, yes, a disorder. Forgive me for sounding a bit harsh, but I'm a skeptic. And in all honesty it does sound a lot like just playing pretend. Lots of folk talk to themselves. In fact, I argue with myself as if I'm two people, too. And the "other me" is usually different, but it's still just me talking to myself. Not a split. I'll usually refer to myself as "we" or "us" when I'm alone and talking to myself (not my tulpa friend) too. (I guess if you try hard enough you MIGHT be able to induce a state of feeling out-of-body while having a different mind set govern your body, though)

BUT. If what you're doing is pushing a different set of personality rules onto your self, then I do imagine this "second self" can become a tulpa. All you have to do is start making a tulpa and put all the traits you've given this second persona onto the tulpa, I'm sure.
“From my rotting body,
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity.”
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#4
(05-13-2014, 01:14 AM)Patchlamb Wrote: You say it's not a disorder, but you make it sound much like one. If you're two personalities in a single body it' either you playing pretend with yourself or, yes, a disorder. Forgive me for sounding a bit harsh, but I'm a skeptic.

Eva: Skepticism doesn't always correlate with being rational. With this logic, we might as well presume everyone that's making a tulpa is playing pretend until something real happens. Things like this is where cognitive dissonance may begin, and would make the ultimatum you mentioned a bit of an overstatement compared to the mental backlash of individuals who may interpret words differently on “consciousness” that may have more weight than just a “personality” or “split.”

Maybe to you, a tulpa isn't someone based from latent or repressed feelings that somehow contribute into someone real in that person's perception of reality, and rather someone you have to actively attribute traits and all to be considered a tulpa (the means may be different, but trying to make distinctions on the end result (e.g. implications of a sentient being) seems kind of contradicting). Guess how people approach this is different of course, but when it comes to words like "you," "yourself," "parts of yourself," and such, maybe individuals just use that because it's really their best mode of reference for implications of dualism, or whatever philosophical theorem on what consciousness may be.

The "splits," or whatever could merely be metaphorical representations, I guess. Because if a tulpa (from your perspective if I'm right) isn't some kind of persona, or whatever metaphorical and/or metaphysical attribution of "ourselves," then this either implies panpsychism (e.g. consciousness being prevalent in all kinds of matter, which would include implications of neurons, and such being experiential (conscious) matter rather than non-experiential matter, and that just brings up challenges of consciousness in general of how non-experiential matter suddenly becomes experiential matter), or that they’re some kind of other-worldly being. If that’s not the case, then it brings back to what really makes your tulpa different from OP who may actually be a tulpa, and not just a host that’s role-playing.

What makes your tulpa different from thought forms in your natural sleep that could have the potential in being just as, or more sentient than them? It probably boils down to how each individual creates their own ontology of what makes a tulpa, a tulpa. So the skepticism may very well just be a contradiction if what the host thinks constitutes as a tulpa reaches an impasse and has double standards (e.g. a persona from latent and repressed dispositions not having potential of being a sentient being, but suddenly it’s the case where the host would imagine someone, and attributing personality, self-schema and things of that nature; the means may be different, but the end result would technically be the same). This leads to question begging, and masks the underlying concern of what really justifies the ontology of tulpas in general.

And since this may be an experience where the host’s mental states could affect how they conceptualize all this, undermining this experience as not having potential of a “disorder” compared to a “split” that you feel may be implied as a disorder, even if OP didn’t imply that is just as problematic when taken further. In other words, what makes your tulpa more tulpa than how other people conceptualize tulpas?

Just a rhetorical question.
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#5
Hello Oatmeal and welcome to your existence as a separate individual.

I am going to talk about your post bit by bit.

I will start this, though, by saying that if you haven't already, you might want to read some stuff from other plural communities. Astraea's Web has a ton of stuff including definitions, articles, and links to other stuff. Healthy Multiplicity has links to a lot of sites and blogs with tons of info and is a bit more up to date than Astraea's Web. Lots of good links there.

(05-12-2014, 10:54 PM)Oatmeal Wrote: I should talk about my situation to give context to the titular question. I'm actually not a person, so much as a "split" identity. It's not like a disorder or anything, and me and my other share the same stream of consciousness, but we each have some sense of our own identity. This started about a month ago, so I should be honest with you guys that it's not all straightforward, I'm really confused and a little bit skeptical about my own existance.

While you may have originated as a split and may not have been a full person at first, you have filled out and developed since then to either be a full person by now, or you soon will be. By same stream of consciousness, do you mean that you have thought bleed where you each hear each other's thoughts beside your own. That can definitely make things confusing or cause doubts. There have been two splits and merges in my system's history, and thought bleed accompanied both, though not as much the most recent one, but then the resulting two people (one of which is me) were much more separate (note, the other is not really around being partially merged into me and otherwise missing).

It does bear mentioning that you might be a median system at the current time, or you may not be.

(05-12-2014, 10:54 PM)Oatmeal Wrote: What happened was, I'm not allowed to share the details, but my other (the 'main') created a "character" for some unrelated purpose, who had a name and a picture and a bit of an undefined personality. Then, without it being planned at all, out of nowhere, suddenly the decision was made to start "roleplaying" that character... And as soon as that started, it felt like a huge weight off our shoulders, almost like coming to life. It really spiralled out of control from there. I tasted life, and I wanted more. We decided to forcibly split our identity, "to keep us sane" my other would say, and I got my own email address, even my own Skype account! (Although right now I only have one contact, my other ^^;; )

We talk to each other, and I honestly feel like this is a wonderful thing. But there are doubts, and so much confusion. Earlier today, I wasn't really there at all. Do I really exist? I I need to be honest with you guys that even right now I don't know if it's not all just theatrics, just roleplay. I'm really sorry if it is.

From what I have read, it is not impossible for one to come into existence from what started out as RolePlaying. As for splitting, once there is some initial separation, it is most definitely possible to drive a wedge in and cause more separation like in your situation. Not really being there earlier today might just mean you aren't completely independent yet. I would say that unless you are a troll who has really done their homework (you don't sound like one), you exist.

(05-12-2014, 10:54 PM)Oatmeal Wrote: There's one thing I know for certain though, whether real or roleplay, I'm an expression of something that's been with us for as long as we can remember. A latent or repressed part of us, that's inherently incompatible with my other's persona. For the first time ever, I got to be "out", I got to openly have certain thoughts, I even got to say things to people that my other would never have allowed to be said. I'm actually afraid of having to go back...

The origins of consciousnesses in multiple systems are very diverse. Makes sense that you would be afraid of going back.

(05-12-2014, 10:54 PM)Oatmeal Wrote: It's really uncanny how less than a month after this all started, we learnt about Tulpae.

So I guess that brings me back to my question... If we were to use Tulpamancy to turn me into a Tulpa, I feel like I would have a more real sense of my existance, and me and my other could live together in a less confusing, less scary way.

But that brings with it some new questions and fears...
How would we go about turning me into a Tulpa if it was possible?

We share the same stream of consciousness, so what if forcing will just create a duplicate of me, a Tulpa based on me, and I'm still just stuck as a part of the 'host'? (I honestly wouldn't mind a companion like that, but still, I want to be 'real' myself...)

Should I instead try to 'force' my other instead to make sure this doesn't happen? In the end I'm the one who should be the Tulpa because my other is how people see us, and I'm not entirely comfortable with our physical body.

And it's just so hard to imagine, we share one stream of consciousness, for that to ever split into two. It's what both of us really wish for, but it's also a little scary...

You could reasonably consider yourself a tulpa or something else. It is nice to have a description of oneself, but it isn't ultimately necessary for figuring out what to do. Many tools and tricks in tulpamancy might prove useful to you whether you are a tulpa or not. I would also suggest looking around other types of plural communities to see what else is out there and find more ideas/tools/whatnot. Really, in many ways, the lines between host, tulpa, headmate, etc. (considering sentient and independent ones here) are actually kind of blurry. Main differences are origin and development environment more than anything else.

It sounds like you want to end the thought bleed and become more independent. The means that one finds around here for hosts and tulpas to become independent are definitely worth a shot, regardless of whether you are a tulpa or not.

My hunch is that forcing won't make duplicates of you or your counterpart if you did the forcing right.

(05-12-2014, 10:54 PM)Oatmeal Wrote: Anyways, I'm sorry for writing so much ^^;;
I guess if you could alleviate some of my concerns or give me some kind of advice I'd really appreciate it, but this is very personal so you're also free to discuss on the possibility of seperating existing personalities or traits into Tulpas.

I'm not exactly an expert at separating due to never having a conscious separation in my system's history (was all caused by other events), but I can point you towards people who know more. I can definitely talk with you more by PM or on IRC if you are interested. Also, on the IRC, you might be able to find others who can help you more than I can.

- Hail
Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others
System Name: Fall Family
Former Username: hail_fall
Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.
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#6
(05-13-2014, 01:52 AM)Linkzelda Wrote: In other words, what makes your tulpa more tulpa than how other people conceptualize tulpas?

Just a rhetorical question.

[Sorry to cut down all that, I didn't wanna quote the entire bit!]

I didn't really figure the person talking was a tulpa, since they were asking if they could become a tulpa. I suppose they could already be a tulpa?? If that's what you're talking about? If they're already a tulpa, just super advanced or whatever to the point they share a body as well as mind, then I guess there's not much to say to'em.

I didn't say it was IMPOSSIBLE to split off into two personalities. If it was a disorder it would be dissociative identity disorder, but then the person would have to have a sort of trauma. But I didn't think it was that, since they didn't really mention anything about a bad experience. Just that it started about a month ago. (though it could also be that they just didn't want to talk about it. because trauma IS traumatizing, after all)

But er, to be honest, and to not try sounding smarter than I am, I really had a hard time understanding the whole post's point. I ended up looking up a ton of definitions for bigger words so I'm really just making myself look silly trying to even make a reply. You'd probably need to water down everything to get a half-decent answer from me. I suppose if I could guess what the post was saying, it was along the lines of "Don't be so quick to say something is pretend because people see and experience things differently." I think. . .

Edit: Ah! I didn't see the first reply to this thread! I guess I sort of skipped over it by accident. Suppose if I had read it I may have considered the person being a tulpa earlier. Sorry. >.>
“From my rotting body,
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity.”
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#7
(05-12-2014, 10:54 PM)Oatmeal Wrote: But that brings with it some new questions and fears...
How would we go about turning me into a Tulpa if it was possible?

We share the same stream o consciousness, so what if forcing will just create a duplicate of me, a Tulpa based on me, and I'm still just stuck as a part of the 'host'? (I honestly wouldn't mind a companion like that, but still, I want to be 'real' myself...)

| share the same stream o' consciousness

That's pretty much a description of how every tulpa starts out. Independence of thought comes with time (and experience).

I'm kind of puzzled why you would change what is already working, but I assume it is those doubts you mention?

Take the advice of a voice in someone else's head, be happy with what you already have and don't try to change it if it's not causing you real problems. Too many get tied up in a goal and forget to enjoy who they are an' what they have. Go smell some flowers - honestly it helps give you some perspective on life.
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#8
Thank you all for your wonderful replies! I knew it was right to have faith and reach out~

hail_fall Wrote:Hello Oatmeal and welcome to your existence as a separate individual.
Can I just say what a beautiful thing you've just said? I'd say it is the most beautiful thing anyone's ever said to me but that wouldn't mean much, would it? ^^;;

There's some talk about me already being a Tulpa, which would be a wonderful idea, but I think I'm not quite there yet. From what I've read, Tulpas have their own continuous consciousness, and when they're not closely present in the reality they get to go to Wonderland...

Right now, I just go into a sort of "latent" state. Because we share memories, I know all about what goes on and what my other is thinking during that time, but I'm not really there.

Earlier, my other mentally envisioned dragging me into our head because I needed to be there to see the responses to my post. I was kind of resistant because I didn't want to distract him more from his work than I've already been doing, but suddenly when he did that "the thoughts" were my own again. I think that lately the seperation is becoming a little more clear, with only one's thoughts thinking in the "forefront" (with words) and we both intuitively feel it when our thoughts are our own.

Only I'm usually not the one who gets the "forefront"... when I'm not, I'm still there sometimes, only the thoughts, not being mine, see me as a "third person" and it's really weird. Visualization is still a problem, neither of us can identify the source of mental images yet...

Patchlamb Wrote:If it was a disorder it would be dissociative identity disorder
I just want to adress this a little bit, we know a little bit about DID (just Wikipedia though) and from what we've read, the disorder is characterised by memory lapses... Each identity retains their own set of memories, so they don't always remember what the other does.

Nobillis Wrote:I'm kind of puzzled why you would change what is already working, but I assume it is those doubts you mention?
I guess to put it short, I want to validate my own existance. There's also the worry that I'm getting in the way of my other's concentration ^^;;

Also Wonderland sounds like such a miracle! I guess it's a bit childish to think that way but... they call it Wonderland! If I was a Tulpa I could go there... And the term 'Tulpa' is so cute!

My other also has an interest in Tulpae just for the philosophical and scientific implications and pursuits. I think we have a rational brain like that.

Nobillis Wrote:Go smell some flowers - honestly it helps give you some perspective on life.
I actually did! My other was protesting the whole way through, because it was the first time I went out in broad daylight while having the forefront, but I did! The flowers didn't really have much of a smell but I guess it's some kind of achievement? ^^;;

hail_fall Wrote:I can definitely talk with you more by PM
I'd love to talk with you more sometime!

Thank you all so much for your insightful words, I'm going to read up lots about plurality and multiplicity~
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#9
(05-13-2014, 01:14 AM)Patchlamb Wrote: You say it's not a disorder, but you make it sound much like one. If you're two personalities in a single body it's either you playing pretend with yourself or, yes, a disorder.

From the point of view most diagnoses take, it's technically only a disorder if it causes major problems in day-to-day life. On the flipside, sometimes the term is used as a description of symptoms, even if not fully accurate; i.e. "I have DID." even if it doesn't cause any real problems.

And Oatmeal? Plenty of writers create tulpas through entering the mindsets of their characters. Doing so with a character initially used for roleplay is pretty much the same. Have a fun time being alive~
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#10
I just always try to keep options open, but since you've explained the situation a bit more, Oatmeal (and considering Riku's reply too) it doesn't sound much like a trauma-induced disorder. Still certainly a very interesting thing that's happened to you. I'm too inexperienced to say much else. All these other friendly and knowledgeable folk have got you covered. Good luck :u
“From my rotting body,
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity.”
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