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Critique on the decline of a community
#11
(04-26-2015, 05:38 PM)sushi Wrote: As to the other topics, I can't tell when someone's a roleplayer. I mean there's one person I'm pretty sure about, but I can believe that most of the people on here believe what they're saying. I think that some people have mental conditions that they're confusing for tulpas, or mental conditions that make it difficult for them to understand what tulpas are.
There are plenty of examples where people are pretty clearly either schizo or bullshitting everything. Something that comes to mind is what I saw just today, regarding a "violent, out of control young tulpa", where the host couldn't do anything to stop it from disrupting his mind and hurting his other tulpa, or something. I guess there's a fine line between good moderation and bad moderation, but eliminating the option of people posting that kind of filth, and anything that can be described as "lol look at me using my imagination" instead of "lol look at me working on creating a tulpa" would be a start.

A smaller community would help, or a larger, more active base of moderators. At the very least, there is a very real brain drain in this community. The number of old members that are still active here is a mere handful, and more of them leave to live without tulpa communities, or go to alternative, smaller ones with less of the bullshit. This brain drain can only be halted by turning this place into something more serious. Don't give the idiotic roleplayers a soapbox to stand on, ostracize those who make a joke out of the phenomenon, and maybe, one day, this will be a decent community.

My suggestions are harsher moderation, more of it, and clear rules that prevent this place from being people's fanfic site.
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#12
The only issue (btw I agree with your suggestion) but the issue I see is that that would require either proof of a Tulpa or leaving one person in charge of deciding what makes a tulpa legitimate and what does not and that could lead to a whole host of issues and discriminations.

Yes there are those that are painfully obvious but if we start kicking people off for what we consider to be role playing or lying then we risk running off any and all new members out of fear.

We've already tried to combat the idea that a tulpa can be made instantly and that didn't work.... At all...
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#13
What Amber said. How can you prove that someone doesn't have a tulpa? Without being able to prove it, the wrong people will be punished on occasion -- perhaps quite often.
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
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#14
Yeah, jumping into other people's private and subjective experience, and making a comparative analysis to see who's been tulpaing wrong would obviously be difficult, and would probably end up in some form of dogmatism, i.e., "my tulpa is more tulpa than your tulpa can ever be; -ban hammer ensues-"

As for the PR thing, I do feel people are engaging more in gregarious spirit vs. just showing progress in technical terms. I usually just try to be a pariah in my PR with others, and fixate more on doing activities to progressively improve communication with them (tulpas). It just amazes me that some people make breakthroughs with something like visual imposition, and here I am planning the next attempt for 10+ hours of active forcing, only to feel there's so much more I have to do than just that. The gregarious aspect with PRs seems to be for faith-building, but it gets to the point where one speculates if they're really putting in the time, and seeing themselves doing it for the long-term.

I just vaguely state why I haven't been able to active force in my PR, and it's just a landmark as motivation to push myself forward. It seems people need others' experiences to validate the urge to make a tulpa themselves, and maybe there's just some people that aren't wholly relying on that, and can sustain themselves despite adversity.

As for the debate with standpoints in theorizing tulpas, I usually see that as analogous to all is fair in love and war.
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#15
I'm relatively new so I wouldn't know what exactly is possible or not when it comes to tulpas, but I do get annoyed when someone says something that shouldn't be possible. I agree that this problem should be fixed.

I usually only post things about my personal life if I feel that it is relevant enough. It might seem somewhat irrelevant to other people, but I feel that it is necessary to know all the possible factors in order to understand my tulpa.

I haven't seen any role-players recently, so I wouldn't be able to discern which is which. If such a problem does exist though, it would be best to deal with it as soon as possible.


Now to go onto a new topic that I care about involving the community and its decline.
Quote:So then, your complaint is that people are talking too much about their lives and too little about tulpas. This stems from a couple of things, primarily that most users see progress reports as a means to Document their Progress. Imagine that. Their goal isn't to further the community, but to further themselves.

Something I see all to often is people pointing out a problem and setting up a system to make sure that problem no longer occurs. They only prevent the problem from getting worse using rules and regulations, and that's about it. I usually never see any efforts to improve, only restrict. So here's my suggestion.
We need a reason, maybe a community end game ambition, for wanting to improve the community. Something that can appeal to everyone whether it be newcomers or old members. Why do we need people to be completely serious about this, and why don't we like roleplaying on the forums? Why should you care about that reason? Because something has to be in it for you of course. The end goal has to be able to benefit you some way in the end.
The end goal can be a variety of things: Making an IRL tulpa that everyone can see using robotics and AI programming; creating a tulpa simulation game to advertise the community and let people outside of the community experience what having a tulpa is like; ruling the world; etc. The thing is, community ambitions can bring everyone together since they then attain much more reason to work together.
A normal person's progress report would turn into a report on the progress of their tulpa in relation to the community ambition. What better reason to improve the community, and be part of that improvement, than a reward you get from the improvement itself? I can go on, but I feel as if I've made my point.
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#16
I really don't think there are many roleplayers here, in the sense that they know they don't have a tulpa but pretend they do. However many people seem to think they have a tulpa when they don't, or have a developing tupla. A clearer definition of what a tulpa actually is is needed to prevent this. For example, picture a character from a book or movie in your head. As long as you know a lot about this character, you can probably have them act as they would in the movie or book, and simulate their personality. You could picture them in your head for the entire day, talk to them and whatnot. But, this is not a tulpa. Many people are confusing this type of 'simulation' with a true tupa and thus are posting about crazy things that they think is a tulpa. If the community makes a clear definition of what a tulpa is and makes the definition easy to understand for new members, the number of these posts would probably decrease because people understand that they do not have a true tulpa yet. The problem is that the community probably won't agree on a single definition of a tulpa.
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#17
Hail:

#1 is an interesting thing. Hard to balance being affirming and open to the bizarre while still having a healthy level of skepticism. Not sure what solution is.

#2 is something I cannot comment on since I don't generally read PR and am hardly ever on IRC anymore

Now, I can talk a bit about #3. I agree with Reisen that quite a few people have tulpas who are not that developed and that leads to appearances of speed and everything. That said, I do think that this is actually a very fascinating phenomena actually - that a tulpa can develop along a couple axes very quickly with little along others. I personally think that this is something worth looking into and may give some insights into tulpamancy, actually. Now, the interesting thing is, with enough time, these lop-sided-developed tulpas will fill in and become fully developed. Due to this, I am inclined to say we shouldn't boot people off for having lop-sided tulpa development. It would be healthy to have this concept more widely known. Might help people focus on areas where development of a tulpa is lagging a bit.

But there is something else with regards to #3. Some people who appear to be having things going on that a tulpamancer and tulpas shouldn't have by that point actually came into the community with proclivities, tendencies, tulpas were already there, or are mistaking existing non-tulpa headmates for tulpas. Basically, if someone is already plural, tulpa development tends to be faster, especially if they have been plural for over a decade (though there are some exceptions like my system where A took a long time to develop despite our system being plural for 20 years). Someone coming in who has hidden system-mates (whether tulpa or non-tulpa) might awake them from tulpamancy and think they got a tulpa who deviated a ton and developed very quickly. They were already there, so they kind of started developing a long time ago. I think this is much more common than people tend to think, especially considering that a lot of people seem to be median subsystems with very little knowledge of it. Also, mistaking a soulbond, walkin, or other sort of non-tulpa system-mate for a tulpa can lead to some of the things people experience that seem a bit out there for how long they have been in the tulpamancy community. This happens quite a bit since a lot of plurals first exposure to a plural community is the tulpamancy community. I know that I had this. I mistook S for a tulpa, which is funny because she is actually the original and I am either a split or a tulpa dating back from age 5-7 (two decades ago). Though to be fair, one of the things that lead to my misunderstanding was the fact that she had practically dissipated by ages 10-14 and I brought her back from the grave 6 years ago by processes best described as forcing. To take another example from my system, G, who is one of three members of Tri is more accurately a soulbond, so the fact that she can do so much with little forcing is no surprise. For the longest time, I thought she was a tulpa, which meant that it sounded like I had a tulpa who developed super quickly. And then V, a tulpa member of Tri, would appear to have developed pretty quickly from the outside, but only if one doesn't know that she had been around for nearly three years when we entered this community. Also, I have split a piece off of myself a long time ago which was incorporated into her. Basically, things can be very messy and make the appearances of tulpas developing way too quickly which then looks like roleplaying.

A lot of people come here with wonderlands already, and often ones they have used for a long time and had quite high levels of immersion in. They do seem to be able to make tulpas who develop a lot faster, which makes sense. I wasn't here a long time ago, but it could possibly be that the composition of the people entering this community has changed such that the fraction of people coming in with already existing long term wonderlands is way higher.

There are also more known ways to do things than there used to be. That has surely speed up things for some people. This seems to be the case for those who have wandered out into other plural communities and found other ways for tulpas to control the body other than switching and possession, though this may be only a small contribution. A good example would be the the "host is remote control puppet interfacing the body exactly as the tulpa moves the host", which allows for speedy gaining full control of the body but does not lay the groundwork (and in fact seems to make it harder since the host ends up a bit more attached even though not in control) for an eventual full switch (I know several systems as well as my own who are at an impasse in this situation).

Now, of course there is indeed real roleplaying going on here. That is a fact. I just don't think it is that widespread. Also, those roleplayers are in for a fun surprise if they keep it up and accidentally make a tulpa from doing it.
Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others
System Name: Fall Family
Former Username: hail_fall
Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.
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#18
My suggestions weren't to remove people who are suspected to not have tulpas, but rather to remove a kind of posts from this forum. If you don't allow people to talk about their special wizard tulpa with magic powers over mind and matter, fighting in-head wars with you as their sidekick, we'll lose a lot of the silliness and bullshit. If you stop people from posting too much stuff unrelated to tulpas, such as describing your zany adventures together in full detail in progress reports, there might be an increase in quality. Then again, it's hard to draw a line arbitrarily.

I would suggest having tulpa adventures put into some separate thread, a containment thread to be precise. Sure, you can describe that you drank tea together in your progress report, but try to keep the focus on improvements you notice as host, the things you do to improve, and what you've learned about yourself and your tulpa. Cut the crap, post serious things. How does that sound? A mandatory read FAQ would be nice too.
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#19
I don't think we should care that much about progress reports, i'm fine with people posting bullshit in them. If you don't want to read them, don't read them. In the main boards like q&a and general, the bullshit stuff should be removed. I think adding a mandatory FAQ is not the best idea, if we just put a button that says 'I read the FAQ' when people make an account, most people will just click it. Even if we make people type in stuff from the FAQ, most people will just copy paste and not actually try to understand what we are forcing them to read. The mods play a pretty large role in all of this, as do the users. They should start deleting threads that are obvious bullshit, and users need to start calling people out on their bullshit too and not just blindly believing in what they say.

I think tulpa adventures should be in progress logs, people should be able to do whatever they want with them, and putting them in progress logs won't really hurt the community. However, I don't have a progress log and I don't read progress logs so my opinion probably doesn't matter much.
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#20
(04-26-2015, 07:26 PM)Yuki Wrote: My suggestions weren't to remove people who are suspected to not have tulpas, but rather to remove a kind of posts from this forum. If you don't allow people to talk about their special wizard tulpa with magic powers over mind and matter, fighting in-head wars with you as their sidekick, we'll lose a lot of the silliness and bullshit. If you stop people from posting too much stuff unrelated to tulpas, such as describing your zany adventures together in full detail in progress reports, there might be an increase in quality. Then again, it's hard to draw a line arbitrarily.

I would suggest having tulpa adventures put into some separate thread, a containment thread to be precise. Sure, you can describe that you drank tea together in your progress report, but try to keep the focus on improvements you notice as host, the things you do to improve, and what you've learned about yourself and your tulpa. Cut the crap, post serious things. How does that sound? A mandatory read FAQ would be nice too.
Sounds like a good idea in a way everyone could deal with it. But if i have a look on these PR with contains stuff like this, it seems they are some people who want to read it. So why dont you just avoid reports like this and let the people read what they want to? I havent read much bullshit here so far becuse i usually avoid posts with bad or unuseful comments anyway.
Lacie(my tulpa for my everydaylife and also my best friend)

Noah together with Lynn are my spirituell tulpa´s im using for meditation

Darcmanish Me

Lacie´s and my progress report.
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