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Developing tulpa with mostly conversation/narration without working on form frequentl


garland

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I am just asking to reply to this, most of you guys that have by now fully independent and developed tulpas, if any of you actually skipped giving them a form (or postponed it to later after the tulpa was independent) and the tulpa was still able to develop independence normally and still making it's presence felt by the host.

 

I ask this because since the very beginning i treated my tulpas as "physical beings" despite being just imaginary, i mean, i couldn't get used to the idea that it was actually POSSIBLE to have "formless" tulpas, or that not working on a form or voice to them would have serious hindrances to their development and not properly focus on them (actually i AM unable to focus on a formless/voice tulpa except just by stating it's name).

 

Only recently i remembered that they ARE thoughtforms so... it's really true, even if i just develop them by conversations now with their mental voice (in a fun way of course, and sometimes still visualizing their forms, but rarely) will they still be able to develop independency normally? And i mean, WITHOUT this causing problems later, like them being just a mental voice, not being able to feel their presence and not being unable to develop their forms better, altough i am presuming that when they become independent this won't be a problem...

 

It's just that at the moment my BIGGEST priority is getting at least one tulpa fully independent (now Songohan instead of Pandora since i seem to have a stronger connection to him that i have to Pandora) but the problem is that all my life i was always a very lonely person with almost zero social life and this combined with linear thinking makes it very difficult myself to start conversations with my tulpas, and most of my conversations with them during forcing sessions are becoming very very very repetitive, altough for the moment i have my tulpa write small storys, answer to "open ended" questions like i see the suggestion in other thread,asking his opinion on others, etc

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Guest Anonymous

Forms are just there for aesthetic value, and to make it easier to interact with them. You can have a fully independent tulpa with no form, no wonderland and no imposition.

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And you mean, ALSO being able to do paralell processing and remembering things we don't? Then this is a lot easier like that, sure sometimes i have trouble knowing what to narrate or talk to them, but the visualization itself still hasn't improved much all these months and i think that a lof ot the frustation i had all these months was because of the visualization feeling "forced" and making forcing sessions like chores, then like this it will be definetly be a lot better!

 

But still i also want to hear feedback from other people as well.

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No form needed my friend, though I would argue that form in general can be more than just eye candy. I feel form helps out a lot in really seeing the mannerisms and expressions your tulpa may go through. But in your case, form is not really mandatory to narrate. Since you mostly subscribe to linear thinking, the repetition can be useful, it's just that you may have to mix things up a bit so it doesn't become boring to you.

 

Honestly, if I were ever to narrate like I did last year, I would already be making about 13 pages on a word document within 2-3 hours, maybe double since things are coming by much easier. And that's just describing to my tulpas of what goes on in my mind while visualizing them with mind's eye at the same time doing all sorts of things. You don't need to do that though, since it's probably best to continue taking gradual steps like you're doing now. And for your first sentence, sure, why not?

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Guest Anonymous
And you mean' date=' ALSO being able to do paralell processing and remembering things we don't?[/quote']

Yes for the first, no for the second. Tulpas can't remember things you don't. If it's not in your memory, neither of you can access it. They can remember things that you currently can't access, but that are there, though.

 

the visualization itself still hasn't improved much all these months

I remember you saying you have Asperger's in another thread. This has to do with that. It's not impossible for you to visualize, but you will have significantly more trouble with developing that skill if it isn't already there. I'd suggest practicing visualization and forcing separately until visualizing has become easy for you. This does mean that you will have to do twice the work to achieve the same results, so it depends on your motivation from here.

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  • 2 months later...

Ooops sorry i forgot to reply this at the time :)

 

Yes for the first, no for the second. Tulpas can't remember things you don't. If it's not in your memory, neither of you can access it. They can remember things that you currently can't access, but that are there, though.

 

Indeed i only meant things that i currently can't access so far not even that they are able to do.

 

I remember you saying you have Asperger's in another thread. This has to do with that. It's not impossible for you to visualize, but you will have significantly more trouble with developing that skill if it isn't already there. I'd suggest practicing visualization and forcing separately until visualizing has become easy for you. This does mean that you will have to do twice the work to achieve the same results, so it depends on your motivation from here.

 

Jeez... at the moment i am doing a 3d model of my tulpa and it SEEMS to help a lot visualizing him better, so i will use this to help as well.

 

Anyway a update for this thread, as you can all see in my latest progress log entry http://community.tulpa.info/thread-garland-s-10-tulpas-general-progress-log?pid=102601#pid102601 unfortunatly at least in my particular case i definetly need to use videos from the anime character the tulpa was based off, almost everytime in the past that i seen videos like that i almost always feel a increase in the feeling of the tulpa's essence and presence, so now i got the proof that without this the tulpa isn't able to manifest, in fact it's almost seeming to start to regress since for 2 times i almost felt him totally dead (this is probably because i am not visualizing his form or voice just for this test this week) so i definetly will have to use the anime scenes from the character to force the tulpa.

 

Wait a minute i think i know why this happens like this, this tulpa WAS actually born spontaneously out of my fascination for the anime character so it makes sense, it's possible that because of this and also because of my VERY weak visualization skills viewing the videos does indeed strengthen a lot the tulpa.

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Yeah, form's no big matter. Think of it like maps for unexplored continents- you can still go out there, it's just that maps help. Maps can still lead you astray just as easy, so go into it your own way. I made a form immediately because I like games and I made an amalgam at the beginning, and that slowly refined. If I hadn't, it might still be the same as today, because she doesn't represent herself in the visual sense. Convos between us take place as a voice in the back of my head and so on.

 

Long story short, just know that forms aren't all that important. They do help, but everyone has their own special way an their own special tulpa. Do what you want to do, and it will be right.

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Yes but then how you explain what just happened to me? As soon as i stopped using the videos as a "crutch" to help focusing or visualizing the tulpa's form and voice better, i am starting to being more and more difficult to focus on the tulpa, even to the point of almost being "dead" and even stopping responding to possession? Unless it's because not everyone's mind works the same way, because in my case clearly that method you say doesn't work. Indeed i have to go at this in my own way then.

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Yes for the first, no for the second. Tulpas can't remember things you don't. If it's not in your memory, neither of you can access it. They can remember things that you currently can't access, but that are there, though.

 

What about implicit knowledge and learning, and other modes of rationalization that are more abstract than verbatim? I know you're mostly referring to recalling things, but when you talk about how tulpa's can't remember things "you" don't, that's just constrained on what an individual fixates their awareness to. It seems to undermine what other aspects of an individual's mind can remember (e.g. subconscious/unconscious habits that could pick up on body language, predispositions, and other forms of tacit knowledge that person couldn't conceptualize all at once).

 

If one were to presume a tulpa can access those unconscious thoughts, memories, and things of that nature, it would just raise the question on why they can't remember things you don't. Even if it's a circumstance on things they have to experience, or see through all sorts of mediums (e.g. an event that occurred in the News, or anything that one can't induce on), it's a completely different spectrum of awareness.

 

But when comparing one circumstance (e.g. transient things that require some awareness to) vs. things that could be rationalized without the host's fixation on those matters (e.g. having to create a memory, or going through experiential learning for it), the latter seems more overwhelming to make "tulpa's can't remember things you can't" moot at this point when one presumes they can access unconscious memories and thoughts that the host usually can't (at least without modes of suggestibility and all that).

 

 

 

 

In layman's terms, if a tulpa can't remember things you can't, but can be implied as being able to access unconscious memories, and other forms of abstract knowledge (e.g. implicit knowledge), then at some point they'll develop a memory of what they presumably "accessed," even if how they absorb and learn the information isn't always instantaneous and direct. But who are we to know what their true potential in accessing memories and formulating really is? And who are we to know what the totality of what's in our mind is capable of remembering? So what a person consciously knows or doesn't know shouldn't be attributed to what other aspects of their mind that can know much more than they can through means of abstract knowledge and higher thinking.

 

If it's an event where they don't know the date of a war, or something like that, that just a circumstance where they just have to find the information, and that's it. Unless people feel tulpas suddenly can access that level of information through some metaphysical phenomenon, then it's kind of pointless to state the obvious of "tulpa's can't remember things you don't" when it's really just things that would demand further research and learning in the first place.

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