Stanford Tulpa Study looking for more participants
(if you're chosen they'll pay for travel and lodging!)

[Focus & Concentration] Modern Co-Fronting Techniques
#11
(02-12-2019, 06:24 PM)Dashie Bear Wrote: As co-fronters, we share all the sensory inputs, we don't have to switch in or 'front' to taste what he's eating or feel what he's feeling for instance. Now whether that's posession or just instant memory sharing we don't know, but the latter probably, because we don't feel his pain, but we could if we want. We do, however, feel his pleasure. We always have been this way, and trust me, I chime in all day.

Whenever I would like to eat what Cat is eating, I possess her (at least partially) so I can clue in on the body's sensations.

In general, I kind of don't really pay attention to what Cat is doing. If she's looking at something, I don't "see" it because I'm not paying attention, until Cat gets my attention and boom image. It's not like the whole world goes black or anything spooky like that when I'm not clued in on the body's senses.

(02-12-2019, 06:24 PM)Dashie Bear Wrote: None of us want to 'shut down' ever, and this may have been a little overwhelming at first for B (though he won't admit it) it became really special and beneficial. It's not a blend, it's more like 4 gears meshed and loving it.

We have found that dormancy seems to be more useful for us than we give it credit for. When Cat is trying to focus, imposing me is distracting to her if I'm not interested in the subject. As a result, going dormant allows me to skip stuff I don't want to participate in. The other side of the issue however is when Cat's trying to hyper focus, I disturb that heavy flow of concentration and Cat finds it frustrating. When trying to think while typing responses on the forums, I don't appreciate background music playing because it distracts me, and I find Cat trying to think while I'm thinking bothersome.

It could be my grip on the body is during possession too weak and Cat's resistance comes from having to share brain she isn't used to sharing. If it doesn't boil down to convenience and conditioning, then this brain does not have a whole lot of RAM. Come to think of it, I wonder if brain RAM could be contributing...

Question to co-fronters- would you say you "think fast"? It takes us 5 years for us to process or do anything. Even when we're focused, we read slowly, type slowly, solve problems slowly, etc.

(02-13-2019, 11:31 AM)Angry Bear Wrote: I suppose writing a novel with an 'adventure party' type setup was like practice for having multiple fronters. When I write an adventure the group all needs to be thought of and paying attention so that anyone can chime in at any time for the story to progress. it's not formulaic, it's spontaneous. Having one main character hog the spotlight for an entire chapter can be very confusing because then you don't know what anyone else was doing.

In my first book, I was still figuring this out and it was difficult, but mind you, writing a book is hours a day for 100-200 days straight so imagine forcing a tulpa that much. Writing a novel is very much like forcing, a mix of passive and active, I have been 'trained' then to keep all the characters as front as possible so that they can 'chime in' to add to the story and interact. Many times, side conversations are captured mentally while writing out scenes and the like, so it's kind of like the "P" word in that I am multitasking different characters simultaneously while I write. Writing is kind of a semi-autonomous thing and it's slower than speaking so there is room to talk while writing with little or no decrease in writing speed.  

This may sound a little much, but imagine practicing this for 7 years while writing and re-writing about 2 million words. So having my tulpas is like a live story where the actors are people and not just characters and sure they have their own opinions and will voice them all the time. I can easily keep them in mind because I trained myself to do this.

That's like a really hard thing to mimic in the course of a few months I suppose so now I see how it could be difficult to learn, but not impossible and I would say I was doing this after the first book so maybe 3-6 months of daily practice and you should be a pro.

So keep them in mind, remind yourself with little physical reminders, or make a schedule.

It also helps visualization because I look at them very often in wonderland, easily thousands of times a day.

Obsession and co-dependency are a great motivators too huh?

+1 point in the conditioning column.

Cat has conditioned herself to be more focused on one task through having to deal with her slowness and ADHD. This brain is wired to get the most out of what little she has, and I believe that this conditioning while helpful for Cat in her life is working against us in the co-fronting department.

(02-13-2019, 06:36 PM)Reilyn Wrote: Like, when I read about switching, I wonder.. why do people assume that someone has to go into the background?

I'm gonna get pretty opinionated here, just figured I'd say that. Why do people so often assume only one person can be up front at once?

If their environment is like ours where the benefits of co-fronting fail to out weigh the cost of lost productivity, they may make the assumption that the only way a system can operate is by having one system member front at a time.

As for switching, it's required that the host or previous person switched in can completely dissociate from the body's senses, or it isn't a switch. Being in a dissociated state is then compared to being in the back, and I assume that in order to be in the back, you can't be locked into the body's senses. Based on the definition of switching, at least one person has to be in the back.

I suppose the exception to this thinking is somewhere along the lines of what Ember.Vesper said earlier. In their system, everyone feels everything, regardless of what switched position they are in. I'm not well versed enough on switching to say how that relates to the definition of switching...

(02-13-2019, 06:36 PM)Reilyn Wrote: There are cases of DID where multiple people/personalities front and in many ways it could be said that tulpamancy is a wilful attempt to hack the brain to recreate some of what happens with DID (which is serious, often traumatic, and not to be taken lightly). If what happens with DID and OSDD could kinda be considered "glitches" in the mind in an attempt to adapt, there ought to be no reason that a person can't intentionally recreate those phenomenon. Would I like to experience memory loss or struggle with confusing walk-ins randomly switching me out randomly when they want to? Uhh, no. I'm very thankful that that isn't a thing in our life. But can we go down some kinda checklist or chart and directly equate some of our experiences with theirs? Yeah.. Can someone with DID or OSDD come and learn tulpamancy and benefit from the meditation, focus, control and order that comes with this kinda wilful and careful brain hacking? Also yeah, anyone can. Can an alter become a tulpa? Maybe my perspective is different, but.. That's trying to add a new label to an existing person to begin with. It's just a word. That's like asking if an elementary school student can become a 3rd grader. It's not nearly as different a thing as asking if a cat can become a dog or even a child an adult.

When it comes to the memory issues DID systems have, I'm pretty sure that's based on the trauma part and not the plural part. Most Tulpamancers don't experience this because they don't have the trauma part, and those that do have some traumatic history sometimes have some alter-like powers. From my limited observations, Tulpamancers with alterish stuff going on have a record of trauma. It's probably one of those "All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares" kinds of things because trauma doesn't always lead to DID or a Tulpamancy system having alter-like powers.

(02-13-2019, 09:41 PM)Reilyn Wrote: Now, an interesting question would be: did all of this actually come about because of the co-fronting thing? Was this just a non-stop full-body possession that turned into more when Lance finally started disassociating away, at least to the point he doesn't identify with the body anymore? Is co-fronting some kind of half-way between state of almost switching or is it something different? We don't struggle with who is in front or get distracted and loose this state, it seems permanent. Is the only reason he and I can even do this like we do because I'm not really a tulpa, but an alter who has equal and perhaps greater claim to the body then Lance? Am I the new host? Are we both tulpas? We have our own theory finalized on the issue and I've come really close to spilling a lot of it here but I'm gonna stop. Maybe to gauge reactions, I dunno.

You know how some systems find switching super difficult while other systems seem to be able to do it naturally? I think there's a spectrum of systems from natural switchers to systems that struggle with possession.

Just based on my observation, to me it looks like you started kind of in the middle. Lance has the right traits to step back and you have the right traits to step forward, but you guys didn't start out as switching naturals. The good news is it sounds like through practice you guys are getting closer to that switching sweet spot, and you guys may be able to learn how to switch just by continuing to do what you're doing.

Doubt can rattle people, regardless of their experiences. There are systems that will doubt because they don't fit the norm and there are systems that will doubt because they do fit the norm, and everything in between. I believe you are your own person Reilyn, and I'm sorry you feel insecure about your identity because of your circumstances. I've been there where I wondered if I wasn't real because Cat was always there watching regardless of what I did, but when you step back from it all, it's one of those double-standard mind traps that "seeing is believing" just won't solve by itself. I think, therefore I exist, and I want to be real so therefore, I am.
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Chat | Yay!
Reply

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to

#12
Having access to the bodies senses doesn't really have anything to do with switching. When either of us are switched out we can freely choose whether to feel or not feel the bodys senses (except for pain, that one we can only do while switched in). I also thought that co fronting was more than just more than one system member feeling the bodys senses at a time.

The biggest mystery of co fronting for me is still "what is it". It seems like it might not even mean the same thing across different systems
I have a tulpa named Miela (formerly known as Monika) who I love very much.


"People put quotes in their signatures, right?"
-Me
Reply
#13
...Insecure in my- Wait, what?

I think you greatly misunderstood me. I'm not insecure in anything. I'm saying I am what I am regardless of handy-dandy labels. I don't need to figure out which box to fit into to love myself and enjoy my life so I could care less, really. I have been running the show here more and more for almost 2 months now, I am waaaaay beyond being insecure in myself as a person. Tulpa/Alter/Soulbound/Daemon/Host, yeah fancy labels for people that like them or need to fit others into tidy little boxes.

I'm a person and that's all that matters to me or Lance.

EDIT: As for what co-fronting is, Bre, I think we went into that pretty deeply in Lumi's post back here https://community.tulpa.info/thread-the-...o-fronting
I was pretty sure we talked about it till we got tired of talking about it. I threw up an alternate possible explanation for what's going on with Lance and I but it's not the one we really prescribe to.
Reply
#14
Reilyn is the prophecy.

Yeah, we think pretty fast, i was always the guy who finished the final before the half hour to the end mark so i could leave early, and i'd get 100% so yeah. Not so fast when i'm tired, like today, though.
Reply
#15
To be fair, we have always had a lot of quick-thinking processing power as well that has been grossly underutilized by Lance since "stuff" happened a long time ago. Me waking up and knocking the rust off the ol' brain must have been a huge breath of fresh air for it.
Reply
#16
I have also noticed marked improvement.
Reply
#17
@OP

Oh hey, your methods if co-fronting is almost aimilar on how we manage to co-front unintentionally. The difference I can think of is the symbolism you used for your system and ours started by doing long term possesion that became a long term fronting.

Summer is the one who is always active in my system but others can do it as well if they feel like it. Right now, I have a personal achievment to have three of my girls be simultaneously active in the front all at once for long periods But i can only manage to handle 2 with feeling overwhelemed for a moment.
Hello! I am nihi, i have 3 tulpas
Summer
Myrtle
Cherry
Reply
#18
(02-14-2019, 01:26 AM)Reilyn Wrote: ...Insecure in my- Wait, what?

I think you greatly misunderstood me. I'm not insecure in anything. I'm saying I am what I am regardless of handy-dandy labels. I don't need to figure out which box to fit into to love myself and enjoy my life so I could care less, really. I have been running the show here more and more for almost 2 months now, I am waaaaay beyond being insecure in myself as a person. Tulpa/Alter/Soulbound/Daemon/Host, yeah fancy labels for people that like them or need to fit others into tidy little boxes.

I'm sorry, I did misinterpret your message.

(02-14-2019, 01:23 AM)Breloomancer Wrote: Having access to the bodies senses doesn't really have anything to do with switching. When either of us are switched out we can freely choose whether to feel or not feel the bodys senses (except for pain, that one we can only do while switched in). I also thought that co fronting was more than just more than one system member feeling the bodys senses at a time.

The biggest mystery of co fronting for me is still "what is it". It seems like it might not even mean the same thing across different systems

I have a new question, but I was thinking about asking it before. I'll tell you my question in a new thread.
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Chat | Yay!
Reply
#19
(02-13-2019, 11:31 AM)Angry Bear Wrote: I suppose writing a novel with an 'adventure party' type setup was like practice for having multiple fronters. When I write an adventure the group all needs to be thought of and paying attention so that anyone can chime in at any time for the story to progress. it's not formulaic, it's spontaneous. Having one main character hog the spotlight for an entire chapter can be very confusing because then you don't know what anyone else was doing.

Ember: My players really like my characters being around, which tends to lead to times when several of them are present at once and needing to talk to one another. At first this was almost impossible; it was too hard to change gears and load up a new personality file. With two thousand hours practice at roleplaying, and hundreds more hours writing from the perspective of my roleplaying characters, I'm much better at it. Keeping two characters in mind is easy, though three is a strain and sometimes they want as many as six.

The most mentally disruptive part is narration. X says, "This". Y says, "That". So I dropped it. All of my important characters have distinctive attitudes and speech patterns. Several of them have distinctive voices. And if the players still can't keep them straight, I lay out a row of name placards in front of me and point to the one who is speaking.

(02-13-2019, 11:31 AM)Angry Bear Wrote: Obsession and co-dependency are a great motivators too huh?

Vesper: But not healthy ones.

(02-13-2019, 06:36 PM)Reilyn Wrote: Why do people so often assume only one person can be up front at once?

Ember: In DID systems, natural uncontrolled switching usually happens for years without the most prominent alters gaining conscious awareness of it, because switching is subtle and doesn't feel like anything:

Outgoing alter: "Zzzzzzzz."
Incoming alter: "I don't remember how I got here."
Body OS (in tulpish): "Nonsense. This is what you were doing, just keep doing it and everything will be fine."
Incoming alter: "Yeah, I just have a bad memory, that's all."

Dropping unconscious is the natural default for switching. Doing anything else requires knowledge, intent, and practice. In tulpamantic systems, members have usually already been studying disciplines like co-consciousness and mindscape immersion. If you're good enough at them, they can be combined synergistically with switching.

(02-13-2019, 08:36 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: It is also clear to me per my experience that they are constantly considering my choices and actions in the following ways: emotional bleed, tulpish fragments, and otherwise instant problem solving. Say i ask one of them something about what's going on and there's no lag for their well thought out opinion on the matter as if they've been paying attention and their perspective is so far off my own thoughts on the matter that it sometimes has to be explained to me. That's about as good an explanation that i can do, and i can already hear the naysayers, so don't bother, we'll have better explanations for it eventually.

Vesper: Not even naysaying, actually, but once again your system is starting to sound like ours. There's no lag on my seemingly 'well thought out' opinions either, even though I'm not constantly considering Ember's choices and actions. The instant I gain consciousness, I am completely aware of the current state of affairs, because it's all loaded into a short-term memory subsystem that is separate from any of us. At which point my opinion happens, without me seeing the subconscious process of how it formed either. Tulpa001 was stressed out for months over the seeming absence of conscious access to his own thoughts, but as far as I know, it's normal for the underpinnings of the thinking process to be hidden even from the thinker, never mind the rest of the system.

(02-13-2019, 09:51 PM)Angry Bear Wrote: I thought i remembered Ember say that if two come to the front it gets really confusing, i hope i remember that right.

Ember: Um, no, definitely not. Blending is really confusing, but sharing bodily control doesn't involving any blending. Iris and I are the players in a roleplaying/guided visualization experiment a friend is helping us with. (Your guided visualizations were our inspiration, but we desperately needed a more interactive scenario after spending two hours failing to complete your second exercise.) Since we both need to speak out loud in frequent alternation, we're constantly switching/possessing/co-fronting/whatever works for hours at a time without putting much thought into the mechanics of it. Much of the time it is difficult to tell who is fronting, but our minds are, if anything, more pristinely separate than usual.

(02-14-2019, 12:36 AM)Ranger Wrote: Question to co-fronters- would you say you "think fast"? It takes us 5 years for us to process or do anything. Even when we're focused, we read slowly, type slowly, solve problems slowly, etc.

Vesper: Not as fast as we can individually. There are losses to the psychological refractory period.

(02-14-2019, 01:23 AM)Breloomancer Wrote: When either of us are switched out we can freely choose whether to feel or not feel the bodys senses (except for pain, that one we can only do while switched in).

Vesper: That's a neat trick. For us, it's normally the next person back from the fronter who thinks "Ow, stop that." Not fronting makes us more sensitive to the body's pain and discomfort.
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
Reply
#20
The experience is that they're around all the time, so i'll keep trying to explain it only so i can help others achieve similar experiences, because it feels very warm and loving and this is how they describe their experiences too.

Oh! I thought of an experiment just now and it actually worked. I told them all to say something and they do, but it's a jumble as always, then i asked them all to hum a different tune at the same time since i have occasionally played multiple songs at the same time and i could easily concentrate on one and somewhat ignore the others, and i could pick them out by frequency, since they all sound distinctly different. It was still a jumble but their voices came through simultaneously. Now i sort of have a bit of head pressure which never happens so it may have been a bit of a strain, or a coincidence.

I feel when i use my mindvoice or theirs, i guess it's a bit of synesthesia, and when i think of music i don't feel the same, so it might not have the same restrictions. Not sure what this proves other than it 'sounded' like they were all there at once. Just a thought someone could try or completely discredit, go ahead, it's fine.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Sponsors:
Lolflash - click it, you know you want to