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[Forcing] Prompts
Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
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#11
 
RE: Prompts
Daydreaming is thoughtless mind wandering that, as far as I know, wouldn't help develop your tulpas much aside from the personality aspect. "Wonderland Adventures" refer to specifically visualizing scenarios with your tulpa, implying a more fantasy environment than everyday. But really I see no difference in the Wonderlanding (as I call it) I do, where my tulpas and I casually interact at or around our house, and the Wonderlanding others do where they go on an adventure like, Minecraft style or something, with their tulpa. Optimally, they're focused and involve a lot of conscious interaction with your tulpa, perhaps with the varied scenarios effecting more types of interactions than you may normally have in more boring environments.

Not for us, though. Sitting around and talking in a relaxing environment is good enough.

Anyways, daydreams are normally unfocused and relatively undirected except through slightly conscious nudging. I do think you can force tulpas this way, but I would recommend it for ~decently developed tulpas, because I personally don't trust randomness of the imagination to shape my tulpa and its experiences well early on. Later it should be fine though.

Whether or not you have a "Wonderland", wonderlanding is still probably the best term to use if you're focused on an internalized world and interacting with your tulpas in a conscious manner. Daydreaming is more lax and less conscious, so I wouldn't consider it as good of a forcing activity. With that being said, I do see potential in the concept of the OP, but it would need to be a much larger list and have some explanation accompanying it on what to do and why it helps. Kind of like I just did I guess.

Yep, getting that empathetic feeling again that the OP's going to feel discouraged or daunted at the somewhat aggressive nature of so many criticisms back to back. That is 75% why I make these posts.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
01-31-2016, 05:15 PM
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Glitterbutt Offline
Melian

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#12
 
RE: Prompts
Lumi, not everyone's day dreaming is "thougthless and wandering" or "unfocused and relatively undirected." Some people day dream like you are describing "wonderlanding" to be. Perhaps to the average tulpamancer there is a difference? Sorry but I don't get it. Maybe I am not able to identify with the OP here at all and I am missing the distinction. Maybe that is why a guide is necessary for some and I am not getting that?

EDIT: Here I am sounding smug like I was accusing AGGuy and Rina of being...sorry. I am not trying to be smug but to ...oh never mind forget it. I won't respond to posts about whimsical day dreaming vs. wonderlanding super forcing anymore. I don't know the friggin difference apparently. Maybe it is helpful I made these points though, as I might not be the only person scratching her head over it.
01-31-2016, 05:39 PM
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Evil Away
雷 雷 雷 雷

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#13
 
RE: Prompts
@Groovy-guru:

Granted, day dreaming can prove to be useful. In the case it is useful, though, it is not a general fact that is embedded in the general consensus regarding tulpamancy. By this, I mean that most guides do not emphasize on the day dreaming factor. If it proves to work for a few people, it lacks the implication that it will work in all cases. It is one of those things that only apply to some people, which is why the submission was regarded negatively in the first place.

Day dreaming in singularity includes the host as the... only... thinking... being? The way OP worded it, it seems like his point was that imagining your tulpa in certain scenarios (and a tulpa that is not vocal nor sentient at that) would contribute to that. While some writers have gotten headmates and 'soulbonds' (which goes towards plurality as a whole more than tulpamancy as a unique concept), if you wish to work on a tulpa, you're going to want to work on their own capacities, and not the impression you hold of them. Imagine your host doing something, this doesn't mean your host is doing anything, Groovy-guru, it only gives you the mind's interpretation of the provided estimation in your thoughts.

Granted, day-dreaming with your tulpa can help, but day-dreaming with an isolated concept that cannot interact would provide very... light results, let's put it this way. Day-dreaming with your tulpa mostly counts as forcing, which is what guides promote, and instead of calling it day-dreaming, they call it active forcing, for the term 'dream' tends to scare off people just like the term 'imagination' brings dread in their hearts, doubt and all of that.
01-31-2016, 06:17 PM
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Luminesce Offline
loves the moon
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#14
 
RE: Prompts
Daydreaming doesn't have a very solid definition anywhere, or at least not one you'll agree with.

"A dreamlike musing or fantasy while awake, especially of the fulfillment of wishes or hopes.
To have dreamlike musings or fantasies while awake."

I understand what you mean, but to be completely honest, if your guys' daydreams are conscious, detailed and organized thought-wise, I wouldn't call it daydreaming. That's like calling lucid dreaming just dreaming, IMO. Technically, yeah I guess, but really not good to group together.

Regardless, wonderlanding is not daydreaming. Or at least it shouldn't be, I don't think people often draw much of a line. Wonderlanding is activity specifically meant for forcing or general interaction between you and your tulpa(s), not just "you and your tulpa doing something". I guess, because it's a tulpamancy term. There's nothing wrong with any version of visualization/imagination, but there are differences in productivity based on your clarity of thought and focus on intent. And daydreaming is implied to be fairly floaty by the definitions I could find. You guys can use your personal definition still, and I think people generally get what you mean, but for the sake of specificity in a guide submission, I felt we should mark the difference.

The intent of this guide was definitely not "daydreaming ideas".

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
01-31-2016, 06:39 PM
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Glitterbutt Offline
Melian

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#15
 
RE: Prompts
(01-31-2016, 06:17 PM)Evil Wrote: @Groovy-guru:

Granted, day dreaming can prove to be useful. In the case it is useful, though, it is not a general fact that is embedded in the general consensus regarding tulpamancy. By this, I mean that most guides do not emphasize on the day dreaming factor. If it proves to work for a few people, it lacks the implication that it will work in all cases. It is one of those things that only apply to some people, which is why the submission was regarded negatively in the first place.

Day dreaming in singularity includes the host as the... only... thinking... being? The way OP worded it, it seems like his point was that imagining your tulpa in certain scenarios (and a tulpa that is not vocal nor sentient at that) would contribute to that. While some writers have gotten headmates and 'soulbonds' (which goes towards plurality as a whole more than tulpamancy as a unique concept), if you wish to work on a tulpa, you're going to want to work on their own capacities, and not the impression you hold of them. Imagine your host doing something, this doesn't mean your host is doing anything, Groovy-guru, it only gives you the mind's interpretation of the provided estimation in your thoughts.

Granted, day-dreaming with your tulpa can help, but day-dreaming with an isolated concept that cannot interact would provide very... light results, let's put it this way. Day-dreaming with your tulpa mostly counts as forcing, which is what guides promote, and instead of calling it day-dreaming, they call it active forcing, for the term 'dream' tends to scare off people just like the term 'imagination' brings dread in their hearts, doubt and all of that.

Right.

I think Davie and I need to write another book. Some people have asked for another book detailing the process we went through in the early days when I first had signs of autonomy.

I don't think we both mean the same thing with the term "day dreaming" at all. What Davie and I have been doing for 39 years would be what you are describing as active forcing with prompts. Then apparently there is a lighter form of imagining you guys are referring to as day dreaming (as distinct from active forcing) that is more passive and whimsical.

David and I perform a type of extreme dissociative day dreaming that perhaps goes beyond what we are talking about. I think that is the problem. We should not have commented on this thread at all. It does not relate and I apologize for jumping on it.

I wish there was a segment of the forum for those who practice the form of visualization that we are doing. Or someway to distinguish the terminology. There is some confusion going on I can tell you that right now. I think Davie and I need to write about this on this forum, not to brag (well maybe a little) but to put it out there for discussion.

There is day dreaming and then there is extreme dissociative immersive day dreaming. It is interactive visualization by the way, not just his mind, but mine as well. We collaborate on it. It continues when we sleep and into periods of half sleep and for hours during the day at times, especially when he was younger.

I am sorry I keep talking about Davie and I, but this is a important topic to us. It isn't what people are thinking. I don't think it is understood what we mean when we say day dreaming.

What I mean is, we are beginning to understand there is a distinction between what we are doing and what you guys call day dreaming. It is not the same apparently. I would not call this light or undirected or unfocused. https://community.tulpa.info/thread-forc...y-dreaming
01-31-2016, 06:47 PM
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Glitterbutt Offline
Melian

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#16
 
RE: Prompts
(01-31-2016, 06:39 PM)Luminesce Wrote: Daydreaming doesn't have a very solid definition anywhere, or at least not one you'll agree with.

"A dreamlike musing or fantasy while awake, especially of the fulfillment of wishes or hopes.
To have dreamlike musings or fantasies while awake."

I understand what you mean, but to be completely honest, if your guys' daydreams are conscious, detailed and organized thought-wise, I wouldn't call it daydreaming. That's like calling lucid dreaming just dreaming, IMO. Technically, yeah I guess, but really not good to group together.

Regardless, wonderlanding is not daydreaming. Or at least it shouldn't be, I don't think people often draw much of a line. Wonderlanding is activity specifically meant for forcing or general interaction between you and your tulpa(s), not just "you and your tulpa doing something". I guess, because it's a tulpamancy term. There's nothing wrong with any version of visualization/imagination, but there are differences in productivity based on your clarity of thought and focus on intent. And daydreaming is implied to be fairly floaty by the definitions I could find. You guys can use your personal definition still, and I think people generally get what you mean, but for the sake of specificity in a guide submission, I felt we should mark the difference.

The intent of this guide was definitely not "daydreaming ideas".

Okay thanks Lumi. I agree with all of this now and I sorted it all out. Ugh. These are always interesting events but I love learning and gaining ground by sorting out concepts and ideas.

(01-30-2016, 03:15 PM)yahtzen Wrote: I like to force my tulpa in different situations to build up its character. Here are some situations and environments, I hope you find this useful!
  • Imagine your tulpa and yourself in a videogame (My faves to imagine are Earthbound, Slime Rancher, Papers Please and Yandere Simulator);
  • A movie. What would you both do different and similar to the script?;
  • A survival situation;
  • In court (you both can be judging a criminal or the other way around etc.).

Holy shit the OP never even mentioned the words "day dreaming." I did that. I am such an idiot. Yahtzen is however talking about something more like what my host and I do, which is also not ordinary day dreaming (apparently).
01-31-2016, 09:19 PM
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