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[General] Deconstruction of the Newcomer's Tulpa Mentality
Ponytail Offline
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#1
 
Deconstruction of the Newcomer's Tulpa Mentality

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lCGh...sp=sharing

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Joking aside, decided I'd finally post this here since I'm active in this community via the discord. I'm not really sure which section it'd go in. Resources, perhaps.

The System:

It's too big.
ha, that's what she said.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2018, 05:48 AM by Ponytail.)
06-10-2018, 05:31 AM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#2
 
RE: Deconstruction of the Newcomer's Tulpa Mentality

(06-10-2018, 05:31 AM)Ponytail Wrote: Switching is a process. It requires dissociation of increasing degrees in order to progress. At first it will just be possession while you watch. From there, it’s just more and more dissociation while your tulpa learns to take control and focus while people say your name to a degree you will only notice once you are trying to have brief moments of forgetting life exists.

I have no idea what that last sentence means lol, cannot decipher
still, saying switching is always a progressive thing that begins with possession can't be true since it wasn't like that for us, if you're good enough at the dissociation part from the get go your tup never has to have partial control (although getting used to being in the front still takes a lot of getting used to)

but I think it's a given nothing on switching is gonna sound perfectly right to everyone at this point

thanks for the special thanks!

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
06-10-2018, 01:25 PM
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Ponytail Offline
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#3
 
RE: Deconstruction of the Newcomer's Tulpa Mentality

My own description of the process doesn't even account for me. I assume most people enter this community with minimal experience with dissociation. Switching was an accident the first few times I did it. The hard part was them getting used to talking to people who were talking to me.

I didn't model this based on dogma or my personal experience. I did it based on what I've seen happen the most.

I'll clean up that sentence when I get home.

The System:

It's too big.
ha, that's what she said.
06-10-2018, 03:01 PM
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Lucilyn Offline
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#4
 
RE: Deconstruction of the Newcomer's Tulpa Mentality

oh, so that's what the name part meant, coming from me it doesn't mean anything but probably that should be in its own sentence since it's about already-fronting and getting used to being mistaken for your host while the first part of the sentence is about actually switching

"-to a degree you will only notice once you are trying to have brief moments of forgetting life exists." is still undeciphered

Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas. I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.
All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written.
Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
06-10-2018, 03:19 PM
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Ponytail Offline
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#5
 
RE: Deconstruction of the Newcomer's Tulpa Mentality

I changed the wording to provide the same message I was going for but hopefully sounds clearer: "From there, it’s just more and more dissociation while your tulpa learns to take control and focus, which is especially difficult when people are trying to talk to you as opposed to your tulpa."

The System:

It's too big.
ha, that's what she said.
06-10-2018, 07:13 PM
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waffles Offline
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#6
 
RE: Deconstruction of the Newcomer's Tulpa Mentality

A couple of things. I think this will be unpopular but I broadly agree with what you're saying. And it will be unpopular because the mindset you're talking about isn't just the newcomer mindset, it's the prevailing mindset in the community. Although that has been changing very quickly in recent months, it's still, I think, the minority opinion even among old members about #3 ("Your tulpa frolics in the wonderland in their free time"), for instance.

So I think that claiming this is just a newcomer mentality is perhaps claiming too much authority. It's a mindset, you're providing an alternative one based on your observations of yourself and others - one which I agree with, but still, it's not something you can claim is the sole mentality of experienced people. What's more, it's misleading to label the alternative as 'magical thinking' - although it's appropriate in a certain sense, that is, ascribing too much power to tulpas, it's awkward given the juxtaposition with belief in actually magical things like the astral plane and so on. So on the basis of those two things, I think you should rethink how you present this, and how you cast the alternative mindset.


Secondly, it seems to trail off at the end, with, "I know this is the most open-ended part of the paper, but it’s because it’s the culmination of everything I’ve said. Tulpas, are, say it with me, human." - it seems like this was meant to be in its own section, but instead it's under the heading of #7.


Lastly, this is more something I just disagree with you with, but with regards to #6 - I think in the main this is correct. Typically 'mature' tulpas with the same cognitive capabilities as the host will use the same cognitive faculties as the host, and that doesn't feel particularly alien unless you try to make it. However, when you use the example of "There are probably some people you have a deep enough understanding of that you could hold an imaginary conversation with “them.”" - this is not necessarily the same thing. On one level you can emulate them in a conscious way, but when people have imaginary conversations with other people, they're often more like using some social cognition and imagination to do a 'fill in the blanks' exercise. This is not the same as what the host is using to think, and it will feel different (to the host, somewhat, and also to the former mode I mentioned).

And I think this is what early responses are for many people. Hence why you have tulpas doing weird and random things when they're 'immature', and seem to lack cognitive capabilities - because if you're letting your imagination fill in blanks and finish sentences, that's pretty different to having conscious cognition and intent behind responses. I do agree that achieving vocality this way shouldn't be hard - rather, typical methods don't really aim at it very well, and some people can end up getting much closer to the mark than others. With a bit of practice with 'letting go' of your imagination I think 'vocality' - in the sense of being able to grant imaginary characters a degree of autonomy that lets them give apparently 'sentient' responses - could come pretty quickly. With that said, that's not the same thing as what you said with "a tulpa uses the same parts of the brain to think that you do" - learning to do this is more like learning to dissociate identity from thoughts, which again, could come fairly quickly, but I'm not sure. People don't seem to practice it directly, it just comes with letting their tulpa interact with the outside world.


Anyway, bottom line: approved. It can go in Articles or Tips, I guess, Your pick.
06-15-2018, 05:32 PM
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Flandre Offline
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#7
 
RE: Deconstruction of the Newcomer's Tulpa Mentality

I can confirm there's some sort of difference between imagining people saying things and tulpas actually saying things. I can imagine the others in our system speaking, and I believe what I think they'd say is rather accurate, yet there's some sort of feeling of depth missing to it. There's obviously a difference in imagining/emulating a random person speaking versus a tulpa, but there's also a difference in imagining/emulating your tulpa speaking versus your actual tulpa speaking.

Seems like a potentially scary exercise for some, but if you don't have parrotnoia I would recommend you try it yourself, so you might see what I'm talking about.

As for the newcomer mentality thing, this is basically why we're not part of the GAT (or mods). We're too lenient. The title seems fine to me for its purpose despite me agreeing with what waffles said about it.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
06-15-2018, 07:19 PM
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Ponytail Offline
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#8
 
RE: Deconstruction of the Newcomer's Tulpa Mentality

"So I think that claiming this is just a newcomer mentality is perhaps claiming too much authority. It's a mindset, you're providing an alternative one based on your observations of yourself and others - one which I agree with, but still, it's not something you can claim is the sole mentality of experienced people."

Hmm, the name for this was because it was intended for newcomers who were being bombarded with these beliefs because older guides are still the most popular ones and because immersion in the community would have them encounter some of these popular opinions (this was written 6 months ago and posted on Reddit, I have noticed that this mentality has been shifting generally already. I'd like to think I contributed but perhaps that's too much credit to myself). Mostly because I'm jaded, I don't really expect older members to change their opinions on what I say. If you've believed parallel processing for 3 years, it's hard to swallow that your experiences were fake (and thus I don't really blame these people for ignoring me). Though, yes, it is attacking a more general mindset in the community that tulpas are somehow uhhh, Psychology+more entities, lol. So, I can agree the name is a bit of a misnomer, though I'm not sure what I'd change it to.

"What's more, it's misleading to label the alternative as 'magical thinking' - although it's appropriate in a certain sense, that is, ascribing too much power to tulpas, it's awkward given the juxtaposition with belief in actually magical things like the astral plane and so on."
I was trying to paint up these beliefs as being as absurd. Though, I see your point. I've basically rewritten the entire paragraph.

"Secondly, it seems to trail off at the end..."
Hmm, fair, I intended it to be a conclusion paragraph of sorts, but I guess it does come off kinda strange. I'll clean that up in a moment.

And in response to the vocality stuff.
You know, I totally agree with you both. This will take me a bit longer to change. It's also sorta painful to remove such a huge chunk from this.

Edit: Of those options, I'd prefer this be in Articles

The System:

It's too big.
ha, that's what she said.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2018, 07:35 AM by Ponytail.)
06-16-2018, 04:22 AM
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