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Irish Offline
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#21
 
RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

Mmm it's more of a go at your own pace type of guide. So really if it's slow or faster depends on you the creator.
05-24-2012, 01:18 AM
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tulpatalk Offline
talkin' 'bout tulpas
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#22
 
RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

I've already given you my input on this. Looks much better than before, and it's more easily read.

(05-24-2012, 01:17 AM)Winter Wrote: Do you think that your method is faster or slower?

Based on what has happened so far, it is generally somewhat slower.

[Note: Opinions]
05-24-2012, 05:49 AM
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ThunderClap Offline
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#23
 
Default  RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

I approve of this as is. If Irish was still frequently around I'd encourage discussion of the guide still but...

My guide on tulpa creation

Please consider making a private grant to tulpa.info to keep the community alive.
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2013, 06:42 AM by ThunderClap.)
12-23-2013, 06:40 AM
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schlondark Offline
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#24
 
RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

Approved, though could use cutting of the parroting warnings / time counts.
12-28-2013, 09:55 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#25
 
RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

Since it's a draft, and how OP may not be active in the forum, disapproval. Though I'm willing to change my vote based on the majority that may have other opinions for approval.


02-10-2014, 07:22 PM
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#26
 
RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

Approved.
03-04-2014, 05:23 AM
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Sands Offline
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#27
 
Default  RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

>Irish makes a tulpa guide
>opens MS Paint

Also that Comic Sans haunts me.

Right off the bat, what's that first sentence about? "o you I'll let...". Is that supposed to be something? Is it just "oh you", which I don't really get here? Help. It's also suffering from the text wall syndrome, one enter isn't enough to break paragraphs, guys. Not here. Missing commas and apostrophes can also make this one pretty hard to read. The text version is a bit easier to read and I'd suggest adding a link to this as well, unless there's some changes I didn't catch.

Parroting leads to servitors bit is stupid and probably enough to make some disapprove this. The guide doesn't say that every kind of parroting is bad, but it's very limiting and it could hurt, especially those who would make the most process by parroting but are now too scared to try it.

Out of the two old guides, this one has aged better due to not having hour counts and being a bit more lax. Sure they both did something great getting this whole thing started but... Their age does show. Do we want to approve them? Even if we didn't, these guides are easily found clicking the huge "guides" buttons most people probably check. Or not. I dunno, do people even read the guides there or do they just use the forums? At least the guides tab has a huge warning about these old guides...

Then again, would disapproving this anger the Great Old Ones? This guide had its time and place, and it still has the same basic skeleton as many other guides. Or more like, most other, newer guides are built on these old ones. But I feel it's still very clunky and limiting due to its age, not making much use of the things we have discovered after it obviously. It has clearly defined steps and order you follow do, which sorta goes against what we're doing these days. Really, I can just tip my hat to Irish, but I feel that as a community, tulpa.info has moved away from this guide despite it being the second Big One back in the day. A link to the text version should be added so people can check it out, but I think I'll disapprove the guide itself.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
03-04-2014, 03:31 PM
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waffles Offline
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#28
 
RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

My eyes.

I'd feel like a hypocrite if I disapproved other guides for being outdated and didn't this one. Even apart from that though, this guide has a lot of stuff in it that we wouldn't consider useful any more, like Sands pointed out. And the useful stuff is all scattered around in more modern guides. So sadly I don't think approving this would add anything useful to the section. It is in a nicer form in the guide archive, yes, and I'll disapprove.
03-04-2014, 07:18 PM
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NotAnonymous Offline
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#29
 
RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

Approved, Guides.

This guide starts with a disclaimer that strongly emphasizes that the claims in the guide are merely the author's guidelines/opinions and that the reader should think/experiment for themselves.

The contents itself is quite agreeable, even if a bit informal (and may have a few spelling/grammar issues here and there).

I'll discuss a few important points about each step presented in the guide:
  • 2 - getting clear, non-conflicting goals and motivation when making a tulpa is important, especially as far as making clear-headed choices go, or avoiding all kinds of unconscious issues that may arise at a latter time in the development process.


  • 5 and 6 - is far more important than people think - and is something I rarely see much in other guides - the author is referring to getting a kind of abstract feeling which we associate with this person (the tulpa) one is 'creating'. Even if his example is maybe a bit too specific, he does give a few other possibilities for the reader to consider. This step would greatly help people with starting emotional communication and dealing with/avoiding possible future parroting issues they may encounter - it's essentially developing a (typically reliable) early communication channel with the tulpa.

    Quote:When you have acquired the funny feeling or alien feeling of sorts, start to build on it.
    Input your feelings, your thoughts, your emotions and energy into it (attention for the non-metaphysics peeps). Be sure to examine it and start to build the foundation of the tulpa.

    The message is very condensed, but I feel is a very important one - that your tulpa is able to perceive and think in similar ways as yourself and they're able to communicate in far more ways than just voice. Not only that, I would say that once that feeling is there, the communication becomes continuous and it feels as if you're talking to someone 'alive'.

    This is probably a critical step which few guides cover well. Even here, in Irish's guide, it seems to me some people may end up missing the true message the author is trying to convey with this.
                                                               
  • 7 - lets the reader know of the tulpa's ability to develop itself and that fighting it is counterproductive. In more conservative words, such as in FAQ_Man' guide, you could find this named "deviation".


  • 8 - there might be a bit negative frontloading here about headaches which Irish experienced a lot of, but I suppose some people do indeed experience them, especially after overusing their focus and imagination too much.

    It's also again worth mentioning how the author again emphasizes the amount of interaction and focus involved in growing a tulpa:
  • 9 -
    Quote:Alright here’s the deal you’ll be doing the whole giving energy, narrating, and forming bit for a while. Just cover all your bases over and over again and keep thinking of every part of the tulpa; keep narrating.

    At the time I read this guide, I incorrectly misunderstood the energy metaphor (not being familiar with more /x/-y/"metaphysical" belief systems), but nowadays I think it's a bit more than just giving plain attention to a tulpa - it's closer to being a metaphor for free-form communication, for example, sending your tulpa some emotions and getting an emotional response from them, but not just in a "prompted" way, but in a truly free and human way - where the tulpa just reacts naturally just like any other external person would react - you're learning about them as they're learning about you. Oh, and, narration is obviously incredibly helpful in getting that tulpa thinking about things and responding to you.

    The rest of this section covers some memory sharing symbolism which someone may want to do if they so wish, along with the important hint that even if a tulpa doesn't have a predefined personality, they'll get one once they're exposed to you or the world (in his example, he would expose them to his life).


  • 10 - is more of a checkpoint about the tulpa's vocality. By now, the tulpa should be reasonably independent (having their own will/agency), thus they should also start developing their voice.
    The hour counts are a bit unnecessary here, but they're harmless, especially given the warning where it tells the reader it could vary wildly.


  • 11 - hints to the reader that they can start imposition once their tulpa seems mostly autonomous.

    I'm aware of some people who do impose before independence, but I do think for many people it may go far easier if they cooperate with their tulpa here and let them impose themselves a bit too - you don't have to take on the whole burden of imposition upon yourself.

The guide has a section on parroting:

It starts by describing what an independent tulpa is:

Quote:Know this, parroting is basically forcing your tulpa to do whatever you’re thinking of. When a tulpa is autonomous the tulpa will be doing things without you even thinking of it. You’ll have no idea what there thoughts are or why they do things. A sapient tulpa basically is one that can speak for itself and talk by itself and think for itself with no input from you. You’re doing nothing to the tulpa and forcing it to do nothing.

This is obviously most tulpa creator's primary end-goal - getting an autonomous person living in their head.

To get that, the tulpa needs to develop their own agency. At least from personal experience, I'd say, sometimes, excessive parroting - without the host paying much attention to the origin of the thoughts - leads to lazy, or complacent tulpas or unusual habits for the host. I see examples of people having these issues every few days/weeks, just by browsing through various tulpa community sites - it's an incredibly common problem.

Quote:It’ll be hard to tell if you’re parroting or not and honestly you’ve gotta find that out yourself. So far it is the biggest problem with people who are tulpaforcing.

Unfortunately I think Irish could have written more on this. Yes, it's something that one really needs to figure by themselves, but I think more guiding could have been done for some people - especially since the guide itself does contain enough information to get to the point where parroting shouldn't be a problem, as there would be plenty of other ways of communication with your tulpa, to the point where you should know on a preconscious level the origin of the thoughts.

Quote:Prolonged parroting leads to a servitor and not a tulpa.
This is a slightly controversial statement nowadays. Some guides, such as Fede's try to get the tulpa to develop regardless if they're parroted, or despite the excessive parroting.

Most earlier guides, such as this, try to get the tulpa to develop their agency/will/independence as early as possible. At least as far as personal experience goes, ignoring the origin of the thought or forcing myself to believe something that I know to be false (due to direct experiences contradicting it), has been very counterproductive and resulted in bad habits and stunted progress. On the other hand, being mindful of the tulpa('s thoughts/will/actions) and my own thoughts/will/actions/sense-of-self, has mostly fixed such bad habits and issues.

At its core, to me, this statement means that if you treat your tulpa like a simple imaginary friend, roleplay character or mental puppet, they may end up being just that, but if you treat them like a person, they'll develop into one. Sure, you can turn a "servitor" into a tulpa if you wish, but it sometimes requires more effort than if you just did the "right" thing from the start.

The parroting section then mentions that parroting can be used as a very useful teaching tool, for example to get a voice or the tulpa's body language down.

The warnings there are maybe a bit strong as once one knows what parroting is and what isn't, they can stop themselves from influencing the tulpa, thus the tulpa isn't in nearly as much danger as one may think after reading this section (of course, for someone that *can't* do those things, things may get more iffy).

Quote:Now when it gets to the point of that you’re just forcing a tulpa to go somewhere or move around then that is BAD and will lead to a servitor. Do not force the tulpa to do anything. It’s okay to kickstart but don’t do this because it’s pants on head retarded.

While the warnings are too strong, this again tells you to treat your tulpa like an autonomous person and not a mental puppet - which is an essential mindset for developing an independent tulpa.



tl;dr: Irish's guide may have some strong opinions at times, but at the same time, I do think that someone that actually understands the ideas and messages that Irish tried to convey through his guide, will end up developing a strong independent tulpa that's great to be around. Some parts may be prone to misinterpretation, which is a bit sad, but people should do more research rather than rely on a single guide - just as Irish himself warned in his early disclaimer.

I can't in good faith disapprove of this concise and useful little creation guide which embodies a lot of tulpa interaction/creation wisdom, even if some of the ideas in it are misinterpreted by some people (and yet, plenty did follow the ideas in this guide quite successfully, especially in the "early" days). Just because a few ideas are less popular/more easy to misinterpret nowadays, it doesn't make the guide itself invalid or useless - if anything, it served as a foundation to some of the "recent" guides. Just because a guide is old, doesn't make it bad or useless, especially when it works so well.
03-07-2014, 05:22 AM
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Sands Offline
And Roswell
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#30
 
RE: New Guide - Thoughts and drafting

Plenty were successful using FAQman's guide as well.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
03-07-2014, 12:57 PM
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