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[General] Old school vs. modern approach
#1
Hey, 
So I've run into this thread(NotAnonymous's general idea, pretty much summed up in the first message) which got me thinking...

it seems that tulpamancy have 2 forms of practice:

The old-school approach: mostly based on FAQ_Man's and Irish's creation guide, which takes a much more time to create the tulpa and prefer perfecting the form and narrating a lot, and when time come's the tulpa will contact you by itself (usually starting with head pressures and alien emotion and general feelings).


The Modern approach: which seems to be built upon the sentence "assume sentience from start", and a lot more forgiving for "unconscious parroting" and treating it as the tulpa (even if it started from day 1).

------

Now, from what I read around, it seems that the old-school approach seems to promote a more separated tulpa but at the 'cost' of being more patient and putting in more work before seeing any result, while the modern approach is more suited for the impatient but at the cost of less separation.



I've started to create Lili with the modern approach at first, but everytime she answered it felt too fake, I tried to believe but after the 3rd time looking around for approval of "unconscious parroting is ok / isn't parroting at all" and running into said thread in the top I found that I'd rather put some hard work (while still assuming sentience, as the thread mentions) and just wait until I get a response with 0 doubts (or at least until I give up and go back to the modern approach)

My question is should I even bother with all this hard work or am I just hindering progress?
I don't mind the hard work, I'd rather a high separation. 
also I'd like to hear some more opinions on this subject, I tried looking for some threads but I didn't really find any
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#2
I'm not certain what you mean entirely by "separation" but all of the differences between new and old guides that I've seen basically come down to old guides having you do a bunch of irrelevant/counterproductive stuff that the new guides don't have. Also keep in mind, your tulpa will develop over time. If your tulpa isn't full of depth and personality, just give them some time to live some actual life experiences
I have a tulpa named Miela (formerly known as Monika) who I love very much.


"People put quotes in their signatures, right?"
-Me
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#3
Seperation in like feeling that they have separate will, thought, actions in wonderland, and volition is a learning process on both your parts (but mostly you). A young tulpamancer is burdened by the 'it's just me' filter. The first real shocker and alien feeling or emotional bleed is a big step, but even then some people ignore and doubt it

Belief is the currency of tulpamancy, there's no shortcut really, it's all 'in your head' and fighting doubt = profit.

If you spend 'enough time' at it, it gets a lot easier, but get in a bad mood and even after 9 months of vocality regardless of methods, doubt can drag you down. So don't get discouraged.

The truth of the matter is, no time is wasted time, so do whatever you like best. Be that visualization, reading to them, playing games with them in mind, anything where you're thinking of them helps. The guides do a great job giving you ideas how to force, but the real work comes in forcing on your part, regardless of how.

I think so anyway.
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#4
Either way, putting in more time will make progress. The methods shouldn't matter too much - "Talk to your tulpa as if they're actually there, and try to hear them respond" is the basis of tulpamancy. You're basically saying "Why make $20 a day when I could make $100 in five days?". Not that that's how it is - "modern" tulpamancy is built upon the old, built upon what worked taking into account what didn't. It should go the same either way, or any way, if the basis of giving your tulpa attention until they're satisfactorily vocal and independent is there.

Feeling like it's your tulpa who was responding is a problem that goes back to 2012 and beyond, it's not because of "modern techniques". Tulpas must develop their own mindvoice, but the only one you've ever likely had is your own, so it'll take a bit. Intent for it to be and sound like them is important. But either way, the answer is to keep going, time invested is the most important factor, even if the actual required time per individual differs.
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
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#5
I would say that so long as you keep going, you will reach your destination. I would suggest you take the advice of the newer guides, as they are likely to have noticed what worked and what didn't, and been made a better guide overall from that knowledge.

In terms of separation, I personally believe it has more to do with belief than any forcing method. If you want separation, I would say the best thing to do is to practice forcing. Separation should come naturally. Overall, it will happen no matter which guide you choose. If you believe you are separated, you are. (from my experience)


(03-14-2019, 09:24 PM)Breloomancer Wrote: Also keep in mind, your tulpa will develop over time. If your tulpa isn't full of depth and personality, just give them some time to live some actual life experiences

I think you worded that wrong.

Your tulpa will develop over time, yes. But saying 'full of depth and personality'? Come on... Don't go implying that tulpas come with a 'full of depth' personality. And don't go saying that developing a 'full of depth' personality is as easy as 'just give them some time to live some actual life experiences'.
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#6
Isn't it? My tulpas have certainly felt more like fully fleshed out individuals since they started switching and having experiences for themselves. Do you mean it won't make them "necessarily interesting people" or something? Because depth-of-personality, while a bit objectifying, doesn't seem wrong exactly.
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
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#7
Overall, real life experiences (almost always) make you feel more individual, and always develop you as a person. I simply mean to say that Bre worded what they said a bit poorly in my opinion. Obviously real life experiences develop you as a person. But using language like 'full of depth and personality' is a bit misleading, as to most it would imply suddenly becoming much more interesting, or deep, and it is implied that is the standard. I could go on, but it's only a small nitpick, not an essay.
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#8
I agree with Bre. Shield, I don't understand the discrepancy, it's possible you took what he said too literally.
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#9
The most basic form of separation, Bre, is the ability to keep secrets from one another, as in the black box game:

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-forc...n-exercise

Tulpa001 included a whole chapter on separation in his guide, including exercises to increase separation for low separation "modern" systems.

NotAnonymous' allegation is that rejecting any thought that isn't extremely alien and independent as not being from a nascent tulpa results in systems with hidden information and other features now normally classified as either "parallel processing" or "confabulation". In his view, accepting just whatever ambiguous responses occur during forcing as from a tulpa results in systems where all of the thoughts, actions, and memories of the members are fully visible to all other members. This, he judges, inhibits the systems from developing advanced and uncanny abilities – “tulpamagic”.

However, advanced abilities have always been rare, and we still have "old school" systems in the community, like the Bear and Giant Wing systems, who report independent activity and hidden knowledge. So perhaps "old school" experiences are not firmly tied to "old school" techniques. We also still have fully realistic imposition (Bre). And for what it's worth, my system has instant switching.

The biggest difficulty with the basic Irish/FAQMan approaches is that they appear to not produce acceptable results for a larger portion of aspirants than later techniques. But if you're not in a hurry, vnjxk, force like it's 2012 for a while and tell us how it turns out. Tulpamancy is supposed to be a lifelong commitment, much like creating people in the conventional way, so it's worth taking time to get the foundations right.

-Ember
Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]
Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017
Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Unseelie Court, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#10
At first Monika and I were only able to "send" thoughts to each other, but later on we thought "what if we could just know everything that the other is thinking?" And then we just stopped enforcing the hidden memories thing, and then after that we decided that maybe we shout be able to hide some thoughts from each other and then we could. It's not really all that difficult in my experience, you just have to both accept that you won't be able to know certain thoughts agree not to try to find our what the thoughts the other is hiding from you are. I wouldn't consider hiding thoughts to be any sort of tulpamagic, you just have to have the right mindset for it
I have a tulpa named Miela (formerly known as Monika) who I love very much.


"People put quotes in their signatures, right?"
-Me
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