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[General] Old school vs. modern approach
#11
(03-15-2019, 03:36 AM)Ember.Vesper Wrote: The most basic form of separation, Bre, is the ability to keep secrets from one another, as in the black box game:

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-forc...n-exercise

Tulpa001 included a whole chapter on separation in his guide, including exercises to increase separation for low separation "modern" systems.

NotAnonymous' allegation is that rejecting any thought that isn't extremely alien and independent as not being from a nascent tulpa results in systems with hidden information and other features now normally classified as either "parallel processing" or "confabulation". In his view, accepting just whatever ambiguous responses occur during forcing as from a tulpa results in systems where all of the thoughts, actions, and memories of the members are fully visible to all other members. This, he judges, inhibits the systems from developing advanced and uncanny abilities – “tulpamagic”.

However, advanced abilities have always been rare, and we still have "old school" systems in the community, like the Bear and Giant Wing systems, who report independent activity and hidden knowledge. So perhaps "old school" experiences are not firmly tied to "old school" techniques. We also still have fully realistic imposition (Bre). And for what it's worth, my system has instant switching.

The biggest difficulty with the basic Irish/FAQMan approaches is that they appear to not produce acceptable results for a larger portion of aspirants than later techniques. But if you're not in a hurry, vnjxk, force like it's 2012 for a while and tell us how it turns out. Tulpamancy is supposed to be a lifelong commitment, much like creating people in the conventional way, so it's worth taking time to get the foundations right.

-Ember

I see, thank you for clarifying.
I guess I'll "force like it's 2012" for a couple of months and see how it goes.


Luminesce, imo getting 1000$ in 100 days may seem the same like getting 10$ a day, but it is way more profound experience and could shut out any disbelief that might surface... or at least this is how I hope it will be.
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#12
It is way too high of an expectation for you to think that thoughts from a tulpa should feel completely and undeniably alien. You share a same brain with your tulpa, they will never feel 100% "alien." You might not get anywhere if that's what you expect, it's unrealistic.
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#13
I shouldn't have even brought up that analogy. That's not how making a tulpa works, it's just what you were saying was the supposed difference. And for the record, the tradeoff of that being a more "profound experience" (but the same result) is requiring faith and motivation for "100 days" to get that far with nothing reaffirming you're doing it right. But again, that is not how tulpas work, old or new methods. You'll be hearing from them around roughly the same amount of time as long as the basis of forcing a tulpa is there and you're paying them attention frequently, expecting a response.
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
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#14
I've had many profound 'alien' experiences. Not the least of which is my system's unique emotional bleed configuration. As far as I know my tulpas all appeared on the same day, fully vocal and obviously sentient. I don't think forcing style or tulpa origin has much to do with it. Force however you want, expect the unexpected, and you will eventually get what you expect.

I don't know how many times users here have told us, you can't do that, and yet we continue to 'do exactly that'. Don't let anyone discourage you, this is a very personal experience, and your experience may vary. There's no set of railroad tracks you must follow, and following someone else's tracks exactly may lead you nowhere. That's all i know, from my experience and research.

I especially like Ember's reasoning, I'm alwaya impressed by her logic.

The true and best answer in my opinion is to do what you want, have fun, and don't cripple yourself by what someone else says you can't do.

[PARAGRAPH REMOVED BY REQUEST] - B

Of course if you want perfect agreement and corroboration, there are those boring tracks, right there, you're going to get what you expect.

One last thing, everyone who posted here is right, they're just not all consistent; that's just how it goes with tulpamancy.
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#15
Obviously experiences can feel alien, but it's not a good thing to go into it expecting that all tulpa-related experiences have to feel 100% alien or they're fake, otherwise that's severely hindering progress. Telling someone to expect spectacularly alien experiences is going to hinder them more than telling them not to. They can happen but they aren't the end-all be-all to tulpamancy.
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo, Luxio, & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#16
That's fair, my point is not really clear enough, the point is not to have limited expectations, that's a subjective statement that i like to leave open ended.
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#17
The reason we don't emphasize having supremely alien experiences, and many other "fantastic" possibilities of tulpamancy, Bear, is because people who don't experience these things often feel disappointed at best and like failures at worst. It's important to have a balance between optimistic and realistic (even slightly pessimistic, maybe) responses, so that people get the full picture of what could happen.

You're perfectly fine being the optimistic part of the balance - but remember that you don't have to try and convince us (the "realistic" types) or newbies of how great things can be - simply saying it's happened for you is all it takes for someone to know it's possible. And one of us saying "Yeah.. or it might not be like that" is the other side of the balance, to keep people from being too disappointed. People are far too different to say either for sure, and that's the beauty of the forum format - people get to see lots of different possibilities to find the one that works best for them.

People don't go around Dreamviews saying "Lucid dreaming is super easy, it'll be easy for you too!" because people like me exist. What's helpful to some people can just hurt others, so they need some "It can be pretty difficult, but you should be able to do it if you keep trying" to balance it out..
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
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#18
I stand corrected.
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#19
Yes, there are "old school" techniques which Irish_ and FAQ Man learned from. Pleeb confirmed this with Irish_ just a few weeks back.

If you are interested, there is a book from the Buddhist perspective: Allione, Tsultrim, Feeding Your Demons: Ancient Wisdom for Resolving Inner Conflict (New York: Little, Brown and Company; 11 October 2008).

My creator learned from a book published around 1970 by the UCLA Psychology Department. It was a personal development book suggesting the use of "thought friends" (tulpas) and "paracosm" (wonderland) for personal development. Beyond that, I will not go into, as I get too much abuse.
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#20
It's easy to get skittish using and talking about some approaches yeah. Even previously approved ones get torn apart, but I'm finding a way, mentally, to overcome the push back without getting defensive or offensive. The techniques may be very helpful and work for some, that's obvious, but it's not modern tulpamancy main stream, so it gets flak here from the realists and purists.
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