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[General] Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
tulpa001 Offline
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#11
 
RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
(01-26-2017, 08:25 PM)Floh Wrote: Thumbs up, even if it's not Youtube.

Definitely going in my bookmarks.
Wow, thank you.

(01-27-2017, 04:54 AM)Vos Wrote: Just from a quick look-over, I'm not really liking the way that you've formatted this. Don't make people look back and forth through your lists - if you're going write out your steps, that's fine, but just make it bold and write the description under it. It also looks awkward under things like your trust exercise when you have two steps listed above the hidden tag and only have one description within it.

Oh, okay. A rewrite for sure then. Will take a few days.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
01-28-2017, 06:53 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#12
 
RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
Update complete! V 1 . 0

New exercises:
--Breakfast and Dinner (merge)
--Knots and Leashes
--Subconscious Communion
--Dominance Switching
--Host Ghost
--Touchy Feely (rename)
--Trapped in Wonderland
--Speech Lessons
--Wonderlanding
--Joint Wonderlanding
--The Dark Arts
--Surprise Me

Major additions:
--Reformat.
--Section under depression in appendix A.
--List of basic philosophy questions in philosophy exercise.

Minor additions:
--Lost track.
--Most of them add context to better get a feel for why the exercise.
--Links to other relevant threads
--Guys, I found like eleven spelling errors no one told me about slackers.


Any more updates that add this many words and the guide won't fit in the character limit of two posts. Sad

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
02-12-2017, 01:12 PM
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Sands Offline
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#13
 
Default  RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
It's difficult to say if this really counts as a tulpa guide. There is one exercise that is basically how to create a tulpa without anything special, but overall I might see this as a big list of various tips and tricks exercises (if we go with that, misc tag instead of general). A lot of them are good and fun to try out. Yes, there is a lot of symbolism, but I'm always fine with symbolism as an extra thing you can try out.

There's a few that are weirdly worded or just something that should be removed, though. That's why I won't approve just yet – I would have if I hadn't actually read the stuff, because for the most part this is good with a few stinkers. No way am I combing this through for typos though! Here's some stuff.


The bit about you (tulpa?) being "oddly shaped" or "modern" at the start is pretty weird. Guides don't really give a shit about what a tulpa's form is, so it never really matters.

Protip, tulpamancy was a joke term, like us being some wizards or something. People using it seriously feels like a joke. But whatever you want.

Your difficulty levels are useless and mostly humorous. You want more room for words? Remove those useless words. I don't care if they're there or if they're not there, so up to you really.

Meditation is not inherently religious. That bit about the meditation exercise is weird.

The trust exercise is bad. You are asking to blindly believe which has created very serious doubt spirals to many. You allude to the fact that they might not be speaking the truth, but honestly, not enough. This exercise is harmful at its worst. I suggest to think hard about what you want to do with this one.

Subconscious commune is new age-y about making THE SUBCONSCIOUS some separate entity, which it is not. It is you. It is your unconscious thoughts – hence why only new age bullshit really calls it THE SUBCONSCIOUS and modern psychology prefers the term unconscious thoughts or unconscious whatever. This exercise is pretty stupid – though if you make a note about it being symbolism then sure whatever. But that's what it is. Don't try to make people believe in some new age bullshit in a tulpa community that tries to pretend to be scientific.

Dominance switching: no, it doesn't count as switching. What the fuck is a "mental role" of a tulpa or a host? These aren't constants, don't use such terms, come up with something better if you must. Overall this entire exercise is weird and could use a disclaimer of some sort. A tulpa isn't supposed to feel "less aware" at any point when they are a proper, mature tulpa. Seems like this has a dangerous mindset affixed to it. I suggest removal or rewording it so it doesn't make tuppers sound like some lesser entities, because they are not. If you feel like the "non-dominant" thinker isn't as "strong" then that's all on you, buddy. Your own experiences, don't spread that mindset around thanks.

Simon says, we don't care about whether you think it's boring. Should it be in this list? Good job making any hosts and tuppers trying this already think it's a waste of time.

Back rub: (3) Place your paw, hoof, or whatever on your host's shoulder on neck.
Shouldn't you maybe have, I dunno, HAND there somewhere? Considering a lot of tuppers are humanoid? Sure, you say "whatever". But you already have paws and hooves there like they're the most important ones, when the majority of tuppers might very well be humanoid. Just weird wording?

Same: Host, remember what it feels like when animals walk on you.
Or I dunno. How it feels like when a human gives you a back rub? Which is what we're doing here? Back rubs?

Walk your tulpa exercise should probably be something like walk with tulpa or walk with your tulpa? Otherwise sounds pretty weird. I mean sure if you want as some kind of humorous thing but it just sounds a bit iffy?

The dark arts: Meta goes to meta. This should be removed.

About the list at the end where you try to explain certain terms:
>(7) Dominance is the state of the primary thinker. Possession is easier when you become primary.
We don't exactly have a notion like this in tulpa.info. And honestly, we should not have it. It's a bad belief that can make people actually believe it'll happen, when it's not true. Please remove this.

>(19) Inside switching is immersive daydreaming combined with the tulpa possessing the body.

(20) Total switching is when the host loses all contact with the body's senses, but remains conscious.

Poorly explained. It can be difficult to see the difference between these two as you have stated them.

What's with coming up with all these new terms anyway?

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
02-12-2017, 04:40 PM
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Flandre Offline
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#14
 
RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
You'll find this community is really sensitive/pushy on the subjects of switching and possession, because we're trying to keep stable definitions and that unfortunately means a lot of defining by defining what is not. When in doubt, calling things "a type of possession" or some-such is safer than "switching". While experiences will differ with switching, definitions will not.

As always I have a really strong urge to try and make the GAT's posts less "aggressive" (or even "offensive") sounding, like every other criticism should be followed with "I hope you understand no offense this is just how it is don't give up !!!". But not even because the posts are actually aggressive, 'tis just the nature of having a guide approved. Just too much empathy on our part. Unfortunately (or, I guess, fortunately) I don't disagree with anything Sands said. Slightly more aggressive wording than need be maybe, but that's just how he is, and it gets points across.

So please take this post as a "Please don't take this too negatively" applied to everything you otherwise would have, okay? Your effort is appreciated.


@Sands Sorry, can't help it after Cinemaphobe doing exactly what we're afraid of.

Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.
I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.
Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas
02-12-2017, 05:18 PM
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Corazón Offline
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#15
 
RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
Thank you Flandre, reading Sand's post I was like "0_0 why so mean!!". Your post made me take it easier. I hope Tulpa will too :/ I usually see Sand's posts as pretty "harsh" but this one was hardcore IMHO.

Anyway, as you said, I don't disagree either with his points, but his wordings are violent to me (and to many I guess..?)

I will never be willing to be mean. Please tell me if I was, or if my English was wrong.
I always want to learn, and understand more things !

Floh is my "host"
02-12-2017, 06:55 PM
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War Offline
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#16
 
RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
It is indeed difficult to say whether it is a tulpa guide or not. Glad I am not on the GAT. However, if it gets in tips and tricks, that would be fine with Tulpa. It was intended as a list of core exercises, with an appendix of basic guide information.

Trust exercise is necessary. No, trust is not the same as belief.

Meditation is not inherently religious. Did he write that? It is of religious origin.

As far as I am concerned, your argument concerning the subconscious exercise is one against the semantics used. Try thinking of it as another form of self hypnosis.

Dominance switching: the terms stay. dominance switching is merely the name of the exercise and not the name of the resultant state. The mental roles of tulpa and host is one defined by tradition and typicality.

It took me a while to realise you meant metaphysical when you said meta. Pretty funny word confusion. I'd personally prioritise a complete list over a completely clean and sanitized list. But in my opinion, neither of those are actually meta

In order to justify the removal of dominance from the list, you'd have to demonstrate that it can't happen, not that it might not happen. Replacement with a different term is possible.

The new terms were for greater organisation and categorisation of phenomena. They aren't new. They are all imports. Inside switching is a subtype of total switching.

Everything else will be taken into consideration.
02-12-2017, 09:28 PM
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Sands Offline
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#17
 
Default  RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
Quote:Trust exercise is necessary. No, trust is not the same as belief.

>(1) Ask your tulpa if they are a person.
>(2) Trust whatever answer they give.

The exercise as given. No matter what is meant, no matter how you try to say "well trust doesn't mean you belieeeve", it is difficult to look at this and not see "just believe in them". Trust is important, no one will argue with that. Just trusting blindly gets you where blindly believing gets you once you start to question things. You should rethink what you want to say in this exercise.


Quote: Meditation is not inherently religious. Did he write that? It is of religious origin.

>Meditation is a religious thing. It was created to do something spiritual. I have absolutely no idea how to meditate properly. But that's religious stuff.

From the meditation part. You tell me.


Quote:As far as I am concerned, your argument concerning the subconscious exercise is one against the semantics used. Try thinking of it as another form of self hypnosis.

I am fine with it being self hypnosis. Please reword it so it is so and not some fancy way of talking to your THE SUBCONSCIOUS for real guise. The symbolism can stay, what I want is recognizing that it is symbolism.


Quote:Dominance switching: the terms stay. dominance switching is merely the name of the exercise and not the name of the resultant state. The mental roles of tulpa and host is one defined by tradition and typicality.

What tradition? This tradition does not exist in tulpa.info. If you write a guide for tulpa.info, you have to take that into account.


Quote:It took me a while to realise you meant metaphysical when you said meta. Pretty funny word confusion. I'd personally prioritise a complete list over a completely clean and sanitized list. But in my opinion, neither of those are actually meta

It is how we've shortened the word here for a long time, but I guess you haven't been around enough to know that. I apologize for the confusion and will try to be clearer next time, but yes, meta stands for metaphysical more often than not here, especially if magic is involved.

"Dark arts" still has to go. Magic talk is not to be done in these parts of the forum. Again, from the meta board description:

This board is dedicated to members of the community that have adapted to the metaphysical and parapsychological schools of thought.
Please keep all discussions on this subject to this board and out of the rest of the forum.


You folks have had trouble with this before. Please learn to respect the rules of the forum if you're going to stay.


Quote:In order to justify the removal of dominance from the list, you'd have to demonstrate that it can't happen, not that it might not happen. Replacement with a different term is possible.

It can happen. You can say it might happen. You're not saying it might happen, you are saying it happens. This is the issue.


Quote:The new terms were for greater organisation and categorisation of phenomena. They aren't new. They are all imports. Inside switching is a subtype of total switching.

Please explain the difference between 19 and 20 better in the guide. They are currently confusing/overlapping and while I think I might understand what you mean, it's not clear. This is what I asked for.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2017, 11:19 PM by Sands.)
02-12-2017, 11:18 PM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#18
 
RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
(02-12-2017, 11:18 PM)Sands Wrote: >(1) Ask your tulpa if they are a person.
>(2) Trust whatever answer they give.

The exercise as given. No matter what is meant, no matter how you try to say "well trust doesn't mean you belieeeve", it is difficult to look at this and not see "just believe in them". Trust is important, no one will argue with that. Just trusting blindly gets you where blindly believing gets you once you start to question things. You should rethink what you want to say in this exercise.
At this point in time, you don't have me convinced that this exercise should be rewritten. I see what you are saying. It is a "challenging" exercise.

Have you considered the possibility your tulpa might not say they are a person?

I might need to rewrite the exercise to expose the fact that the exercise can be applied to other questions.

Quote:>Meditation is a religious thing. It was created to do something spiritual. I have absolutely no idea how to meditate properly. But that's religious stuff.

From the meditation part. You tell me.
In my opinion, that is a strongly worded, opinionated way of saying that meditation was invented by religions, and "owned" by religions. What even is meditation in a non-religious context? I think it loses something.

Quote:I am fine with it being self hypnosis. Please reword it so it is so and not some fancy way of talking to your THE SUBCONSCIOUS for real guise. The symbolism can stay, what I want is recognizing that it is symbolism.
The subconscious unconscious thing. Hmm. I was thinking about that. An interesting etymological problem. I believe I researched it after it came up several times on the site. This is what I remember finding:

--The layperson confuses the one for the other.
--Psychologists use subconscious to refer to any process that is not under conscious control.
--Doctors use unconscious to refer to the medical condition of not being awake.

You seem to think that there is something metaphysical about the subconscious. It is my belief that subconscious processes are physical processes.

Now, I think it is obvious that there is symbolism in this one. Rather heavily, I gave an example of how to talk to your subconscious from personal experience. Both stuff that you don't like in guides for various reasons.

Quote:What tradition? This tradition does not exist in tulpa.info. If you write a guide for tulpa.info, you have to take that into account.
I don't think she meant that kind of tradition. A tradition is a thing that normally happens.

... Oh, yeah. What she means is individuals will each have personal traditions, roles that they have fallen into. These roles can be swapped, experimentally. This is the experiment you want to remove from the guide.

Quote:"Dark arts" still has to go. Magic talk is not to be done in these parts of the forum. Again, from the meta board description:

This board is dedicated to members of the community that have adapted to the metaphysical and parapsychological schools of thought.
Please keep all discussions on this subject to this board and out of the rest of the forum.
Ah, yeah. As you are aware, I have a softer interpretation of that rule based on the idea of general scientific inquiry. I might not consider a discussion about something metaphysical to be a metaphysical discussion if I am talking about it scientifically.

For example, I can have the opinion that a certain practise has real results. But I can disbelieve the standard explanation that the results have a metaphysical cause and not a psychological cause.

I will hate to see that one go, but the official forum policy may be an insurmountable policy.

Still, are we one site, or two? You may regard the metaphysical board as a garbage dump, but is this a correct interpretation? What about partly metaphysical discussions? What about links to metaphysical discussions? What about discussions that are better categorised into the lounge, but are still metaphysical? Rather, I think the site policy is one that allows discussion of the metaphysical, and even from a metaphysical perspective. It does not make sense, for example, to censor individual posts that give metaphysical answers to non metaphysical question threads. But merely one where metaphysical discussions are organised into their own board.

Quote:It can happen. You can say it might happen. You're not saying it might happen, you are saying it happens. This is the issue.
??? From the same section I define possession and switching. These are also things that never happen to some tulpas.

Quote:Please explain the difference between 19 and 20 better in the guide. They are currently confusing/overlapping and while I think I might understand what you mean, it's not clear. This is what I asked for.
Will do.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
02-13-2017, 02:12 AM
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Doctorfoxwolf Offline
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#19
 
RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
(02-13-2017, 02:12 AM)tulpa001 Wrote: What even is meditation in a non-religious context? I think it loses something.

Focus. It is focus. I am agnostic, CT is atheistic, and Meti is heavily anti-theistic, but we all meditate. Myself for 3-4 hours a day, CT for 1-2 hours a day, and Meti for a whopping 9-10 hours a day. Now we use it for focus, as rest, to orient ourselves. We use it to contemplate cencepts, and used to use it to force.

In Meti's and CT's case, they used it to stay alive. Meti started doing it without outside knowledge of it in order to affirm her own existence so she wouldn't die. She would focus on the pain that she felt and know that the pain made her real. CT focused on hatred, anger spite, all that fun stuff. He did the same thing, surviving years of being blocked out and ignored by affirming his existence and refusing to die out of sheer hate.

I meanwhile use it as a way to shut off my metacognition so that I can use it as a break from reality.

Meditation has many uses outside of religion.

Doc: Childhood friend turned servitor gone rogue turned host who's bad at feeling emotions.
Meti: Overly lewd Tupper.
CT, who is also called Jeremy: Original personality whose default emotion is anger.
02-13-2017, 02:58 AM
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tulpa001 Offline
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#20
 
RE: Tulpa's DIY tulpamancy guide
That is impressive, foxywolfy. Guess how many hours we manage a week.

To be completely honest, that sounds like meditation related activity rather than meditation. Meditation does give you a great deal of control over yourself, but focusing on pain and hatred, sounds like it should have different results.

Meti, you don't need to feel pain to be alive. Look deeper, at the part of yourself that values life.

CT, we can choose who we are. Particularly true of anyone who is capable enough to meditate daily. Ideas occur to me when I see both the statement that you use meditation to stay alive and you use meditation to focus on anger and hate. Do you think you are anger and hate?



I got to thinking. Sands has expressed the opinion that a lot of the humour in the guide is weird.

Humour is important in guides as it can improve the mood, and this in turn increases engagement with the guide. A basic guide writing principle.

Humour can also be off and weird, causing people to feel weird, and thus reducing engagement with the guide.

I could use additional opinions on the humour in the guide.

Man, I feel like an anvil fell on me.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.
02-13-2017, 05:12 AM
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